Trying to find a Prc

[Ranting Fool]

Hey there Playground-eers :smallbiggrin: I'm hoping that someone will have a bright idea that will help me out.

What i'm looking for is a class that has a bardic music (Speaches over playing, will explain) but has NO spellcasting bard/wiz/sor spells.

Now the Marshal is kind of in the right area but not 100%

I am planning to make an NPC based around the Warhammer 40k Commissars (Which are just based on russian commissars anyway:smallamused:) a person who inspires his troops to greatness but isn't always the leader. But I'm aiming for a non magic caster type.

Ideas?

[Amphetryon]

Here's a list of ways to get Bardic Music, from Surreal's "Lists of Stuff":

Bardic Music - (any prestige class that grants bardic music also stacks with bard levels for number of uses per day)
Bard
Virtuoso 1, ecl 8, Complete Adventurer
Fochlucan Lyrist 1, ecl 11, Complete Adventurer
Dragonsong Lyrist 1, ecl 8, Draconomicon, functions like bardic music but different name, does not stack
Warrior Skald 1, ecl 6, Races of Faerun
Spellsinger 1, ecl 6, Races of Faerun
Troubadour of Stars 1, ecl ?, Book of Exalted Deeds


stacks for bardic music uses per day
Seeker of the Song, ecl 11, Complete Arcane
Sublime Chord, ecl 11, Complete Arcane, add only half level
Fochlucan Lyrist , ecl 11, Complete Adventurer
War Chanter, ecl 6 (maybe 5), Complete Warrior
Dawncaller, ecl 7, Races of Stone
Dirgesinger, ecl 6, Libris Mortis
Stormsinger, ecl 6, Frostburn
Lyric Thaumaturge, ecl 7, Complete Mage


special mention
Extra Music, feat, Complete Adventurer, 4 extra uses
Harmonius Knight paladin sub level (Champion of Valor; web enhancement) grants inspire courage, but not as a bardic ability
Initiate of Milil, feat, Champions of Valor, lets you stack bard/cleric/paladin levels to determine what kind of music you have
Initiate of Hlal, feat, Dragon Magic, gain one additional use of bardic music if you already have it
Divine Prankster, ecl 6, Races of Stone, uses bardic music to fuel "Comedic Performance" which has effects similar to bardic music
The Artist, regional feat, Player's Guide to Faerun, 3 extra bardic music uses
Evangelist, ecl 6, Complete Divine, stacks for strength of bard songs, see text

[Ranting Fool]

Thanks for that, well Warchanter comes close to the idea I was aiming at but having gone through them they all either want a level of bard or level sor/wiz.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Divine Bard (UA) with a low Wisdom? That way, you technically can't learn spells (Divine Bard uses Wisdom to determine which spells you can cast, but Charisma for everything else), but you can still technically fulfill requirements.

[Darrin]

Thanks for that, well Warchanter comes close to the idea I was aiming at but having gone through them they all either want a level of bard or level sor/wiz.

It sounds like you want something similar to Inspire Courage, and there are a few PrCs that offer something similar.

Dread Pirate (Complete Adventurer), for example, has Rally the Crew (Ex).

Orc Warlord (Races of Faerun) can Inspire Courage (Su) with an inspirational speech.

Dwarven Chanter (online PrC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20061128a)) gets a War Chant that is similar to Inspire Courage.

There may be a few others... those are all I can recall at the moment.

[Ranting Fool]

To be honest being able to cast arcane spells isn't the end of the world. Since most of these only require a level 1 caster level in arcane it's not too bad.

[Red_Dog]

Thanks for that, well Warchanter comes close to the idea I was aiming at but having gone through them they all either want a level of bard or level sor/wiz.

Harmonius Knight/Warchanter doesn't need sorc/wiz levels. Its quite a nice combo actually as you get full BAB, nice HD and mass boosting abilities. You also get inspire recklessness which is quite nice. You can also splice a lvl or three of Marshal as it will give constant motivation to troops of which Art of War, Motivate Dex or any of the "bonus to this save" auras are nice.

But if you want "commissar" type of character[I'm quite familiar with 40k verse, played/read/wrote stuff for it for few years]... You might want to go about being lawful evil[none one in 40k is "evil" as they all are, but in D&D, 40k attitude of IG would be considered LE]. If You are ok about using Pal of Tyranny w/ Harmonus knight sub, that could be the choice.

If not... Hmmm. I am not quite sure. You probably want an equivalent of "shoot one guy in the face, everyone fights twice as hard". And I am not quite sure how to do that mechanically... You could always just do that and than the troops would preform riskier tasks? I am kind of shooting blanks on a mechanical ability to do that. For my empire[in my campaign] I just used a method of => troops try a lot harder because failure means punishment.

P.S. Some classes such as infamous Frenzied Berserker have ability to incite Rage. A bard has that as a spell as far as I remember. You could make a custom item that has "chain incite rage" and cast it up-on the troops. But that's not the effect of fear. Its closer to Savlar Chem Dogs[one of the IG legions, they have awesome fluff, just not a lot of it heh] having chem inhaling masks to make them crazy and charge in. But again, not the same as scaring your troops into frenzy...

[Person_Man]

From Smite to Song Feat: Adds Perform to your class list, and allows you to burn a Smite Evil attempts to Inspire Courage. Champions of Valor pg 29.

There are a bunch of ways to Optimize Smite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10289492) so that you can get many uses, even without being a Paladin. That should fit your Commissar role nicely.

[eggs]

Warrior Skald (Races of Faerun) has all the Bard's music abilities and is trivial for a melee character to qualify for. It grants entrance to most other relevant Bard PrCs.

[nedz]

The Evangelist PrC from CDiv might be what you are after.
It has a bunch of Skill pre-reqs and a single feat.
It has three Oratory effects, which are similiar to Bardic music. It also has fast diplomacy ans skill mastery in oratory like skills.

[Red_Dog]

There are a bunch of ways to Optimize Smite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10289492)

100% off topic => Damn, Person_Man... I was going to write a smiting handbook >_>, as I didn't knew that one existed heh. Well You probably did a better job anyway, moot point is m00t than ^^

On topic=>

It seems D&D does not favor "smacking your own allies to motivate them" approach. after an hours of searching, I couldn't find anything. Its quite possible that I am wrong though.

[Keld Denar]

Warrior Skald (Races of Faerun) has all the Bard's music abilities and is trivial for a melee character to qualify for. It grants entrance to most other relevant Bard PrCs.

Also doesn't translate well into 3.5. Races of Faerun is a 3.0 book. Now, normally, 3.0 stuff is comparable with 3.5 stuff, with modifications, but they dramatically changed the way BM worked between 3.0 and 3.5. In 3.0, it was just one ability with a graduated scale of sub abilities that came online with ranks in Perform. 3.5 broke out all of the abilities, which now have both level AND skill prereqs. To grant 3.0 BM in a 3.5 game causes some severe disconnect. I never liked 3.0 BM anyway, but giving an entire classes features with a 1 level dip and a handful of skill points seems wrong.

I'd say that there is some "modification" required to make Warrior Skald mesh in a 3.5 game.

[Person_Man]

It seems D&D does not favor "smacking your own allies to motivate them" approach. after an hours of searching, I couldn't find anything. Its quite possible that I am wrong though.

I think I read a third party Orc PrC somewhere that allows you to kill an ally in order to inspire/rage remaining allies. Can't remember where though. Wouldn't be hard to homebrew though:

"Motivate" Troops (Ex): As a Standard Action, make an attack against a Humanoid ally that is not Summoned, or otherwise magically, supernaturally, or psionically created. If this attack hits, then it automatically a critical hit that does not require confirmation, and deals damage as appropriate. All allies within 100 feet may re-roll their Saving Throws against any ongoing negative status effects that they are currently suffering from (such as fear, compulsion, nausea, stun, etc) with a morale bonus to their Saving Throw equal to your Charisma bonus. If your attack kills the ally that you targeted, then as a free action all allies within 100 feet may also immediately move up to their speed to reform their ranks and/or move in the direction of enemy combatants. The motivating portions of this ability (the Save re-roll and free Move Action) are mind-effecting Fear effects. Creatures who are immune to either of these types of effects are immune to the benefits of this ability (though not the attack that you might make against them).

Any class or the prestige class with the ability to Inspire Competence, Inspire Greatness, or Inspire Heroics may trade one of those abilities for the "Motivate" Troops ability in it's place.

[Ranting Fool]

@Person_man - Thanks mate that is very much what is needed :smallbiggrin:

@Red_Dog - I've always seen the Guard as a whole as very LAWfully Neutral. Yes there are many evil aspects to them, the whole racist toward any alien/Burn a whole planet so the enemy doesn't get it/disregard for human life as it's cheaper then the gear needed to kit them out. But the basic bloke you read about in the novels and fluff tend to be a very mixed bunch good/bad/uncaring/in the wrong place at the wrong time. But I've no issue with a LE guy leading a bunch of LN/LE guys.

Thank you all for the help :smallsmile:

[hamishspence]

Also doesn't translate well into 3.5. Races of Faerun is a 3.0 book.

It's a rather late 3.0 book though- I think the new skill names (Survival, for example) were already in use by that point.

[Kuulvheysoon]

It's a rather late 3.0 book though- I think the new skill names (Survival, for example) were already in use by that point.

so it's more of a 3.25, along the lines of BoED and the BoVD?

[NNescio]

@Person_man - Thanks mate that is very much what is needed :smallbiggrin:

@Red_Dog - I've always seen the Guard as a whole as very LAWfully Neutral. Yes there are many evil aspects to them, the whole racist toward any alien/Burn a whole planet so the enemy doesn't get it/disregard for human life as it's cheaper then the gear needed to kit them out. But the basic bloke you read about in the novels and fluff tend to be a very mixed bunch good/bad/uncaring/in the wrong place at the wrong time. But I've no issue with a LE guy leading a bunch of LN/LE guys.

Thank you all for the help :smallsmile:

Alternatively, a TN/NG leader.

COMMISSAR CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!!


Needs a bunch of ranks in Bluff though.

[Urpriest]

There is in fact a way to kill one of your troops to motivate the others: Dread Pirate from Complete Adventurer gets just such an ability.

[hamishspence]

so it's more of a 3.25, along the lines of BoED and the BoVD?

The BoED is full 3.5- it has everything, including the DR/alignment for outsiders.

The BoVD is full 3.0- it has all the old things, like Read Lips, Scry, Innuendo and so forth as PRC skills.

The 3.25 books, at different stages in the process, are:

Savage Species. Races of Faerun. Unapproachable East. Fiend Folio.

Some 3.0 books, like Arms and Equipment Guide, and Ghostwalk, actually posthaste some of those four though.

[Ranting Fool]

Alternatively, a TN/NG leader.

COMMISSAR CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!!


Needs a bunch of ranks in Bluff though.

As with all big empires there are bound to be a bunch of people who don't fit the base alignment (think of all those evil cults growing in LG towns all the time)

Thinking of giving him a Hand Xbow :smalltongue:

again I'm only really looking for a Commissar template/standard badguy rather then BBEG end boss villian. So power level doesn't have to be high (As he'll be bossing around a bunch of lower level fighters)