A bit of help with a 3.5e Druid

[Kadiith]

First off, hello! I apologize in advance if I come off as overly-n00bish, I've never really had any experience with D&D other than reading RA Salvatore's books and a few hours of NWN 1 and 2. ^^; Feel free to correct anything I say that could be wrong, since none of them have played with a Druid and I'm completely new to D&D in general.

I've been invited to join a group that will be doing an ongoing campaign (we've already had our first session, and it was awesome!) so I've been trying to figure out what feats/skills/etc I'll be needing to be picking up along the way of leveling to end up where I picture my character being. We will most likely be playing at least to level 20, and quite likely beyond that, if that helps any.

To the important bit: I've been doing a lot of reading for the past week or so, and I've come to the conclusion that Wild-shaping druids are awesome. So, naturally, I want to focus mainly on that. We're starting out at level 5, so I already have access to Wild Shape 1xday, plus the feat Extra Wild Shapes which gives me another, and the DM gave me Druid's Vestments which give me yet another. So, starting out I get 3xday, if we did that right.

Any feats/skills/etc that you would suggest for a completely wild-shape focusing druid? Would it be ideal, if I intend to be wild-shaping as much as possible, to go into Master of Many Forms or should I stay pure Druid? Or a mix of the two, and pick up X levels in MoMF and the rest druid? :smallconfused:

I have managed to get my hand on the MoMF info from Complete Adventurer, and a friend who is also playing is letting me look at his PHB and MM 2 and 3 for any info in there, but the multitude of information out there is still kinda daunting for a newb. :smalleek: Any suggested reading would be greatly appreciated, as well. :smallsmile:

[tyckspoon]

From a strict optimization perspective, straight Druid is better- spells are more powerful than most anything you can get out of Master of Many Forms (and should the game ever make it to high levels and 9th level spells, Shapechange makes any kind of Wildshape obsolete.. but you probably don't really need to worry about that.)

If you really want to focus just on Wildshaping, ask your DM if you can use the Wildshape Ranger variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) instead; better BAB, HD, and skills make a better jumping-point for a 'turn into things and beat the stuffing out of other things' build, and you don't have to feel guilty about not advancing Animal Companion or spellcasting with Master of Many Forms because those are negligible at Ranger 5.

[Urpriest]

As a new player playing a Druid, you really really need to make sure you understand how to read a monster's statblock and take it apart for the things that you can get access to. I recommend reading my guide to monsters, linked in my sig.

[Megafly]

Look up the feat "Natural Spell". Druid 101: getting eaten by a bear is worse when it can flamestrike you.

[Namfuak]

As a new player playing a Druid, you really really need to make sure you understand how to read a monster's statblock and take it apart for the things that you can get access to. I recommend reading my guide to monsters, linked in my sig.

I secondly recommend reading Ur-Priest's guide, whether you want to be a druid or a straight fighter. Also, you will want to pick up the feat Natural Spell at 6th level, so you can cast spells while in wild shape. Also, I don't know how you statted your character, but a big mistake people make is putting anything into strength or dexterity as a druid - both of these are replaced by the form you are in, so they can be dumped for your "normal" form (which also means do not be a PHB elf druid, despite the book suggesting they make good druids). Constitution is also replaced in your wildshape form, but you do not gain or lose health based on your new constitution (unlike if you gain constitution through another source, like a spell), so you should put some focus into constitution as well. The benefits of the mental stats should be pretty easy for you to figure out, so I'll let you figure those out on your own.

As for skills, you will probably want to have skills in tumble as a melee combatant (allows you to move within and out of threatened squares without incurring an attack of opportunity) and concentration (again, to avoid attacks of opportunity from spellcasting by casting defensively). Others may disagree with me on this point, but despite it being a cross-class skill I would recommend putting 2 points into Autohypnosis (to get 1 rank and be trained). Assuming wisdom is your highest stat and thus is at minimum a +3 modifier, this gives you a +4 to autohypnosis checks. You can make a DC 20 Autohypnosis check instead of making a normal roll to stabilize when you drop between -1 and -10 health. Normally, you have a 10% chance each turn of stabilizing, but with even +3 to autohypnosis you can do better than that. +4 gives you a 20% chance each turn (a 16, 17, 18, 19, or 20 succeeds) and as you gain wisdom this chance will get better all the time. Granted, eventually the chance of actually hitting health between -1 and -10 becomes much less likely, but it is quite useful at low to mid level.

[Kadiith]

Thanks for the quick replies, everyone!

After reading your replies (and of course, a little more reading and calling to bug the DM again), I think I'll stick with straight Druid. After all, I don't really want to sacrifice my companion or a whole lot of spellcasting. We had looked at the Ranger variant, but we actually do need it to be a druid due to some story mechanics. I should have mentioned that, of course, but didn't think to. ^^;

@Urpriest: That exact post has been open in a window on my husband's computer for about a week now (he's playing a were-bear barbarian). I'll make sure to read it several dozen times, so that it actually sticks. <3

@Megafly: Another thing I should have mentioned and forgot. The DM declared that while wildshaped, I would be able to speak and cast normally without taking any special feats or items as an incentive for someone to play a Druid. Awesome, yes? :smallcool:

[Kadiith]

@Namfuak: I'm saddened to say that I never even thought of Tumble. Concentration we were looking at, but wasn't certain how much actual casting I would be doing mid-combat. I'll have to pour over my spellbook and figure out what exactly I'd be doing other than simply buffing myself and my Companion.

Building-wise, I didn't want the negative to Con even though my favorite fantasy race is an elf, so we went with the next best thing and made her a Half-elf. Stats we put 18 Wis, 15 Con, 14 in Str Int and Cha, and a 12 in Dex. If those were wrong, I can still switch them around a bit.

I am definitely looking into that auto-hypnosis now, I haven't even heard of it since we've only been looking at Druid class skills. The guys we're fighting hit incredibly hard, when they manage to land a blow. >_>; Then again, remember to actually cast my buffs and not just preparing them will actually help in our next session. :smalltongue:

[tyckspoon]

I am definitely looking into that auto-hypnosis now, I haven't even heard of it since we've only been looking at Druid class skills. The guys we're fighting hit incredibly hard, when they manage to land a blow. >_>; Then again, remember to actually cast my buffs and not just preparing them will actually help in our next session. :smalltongue:

My favorite Autohypnosis trick is Memorize, which lets you perfectly recall text, numbers, diagrams, and similar images. It's fun roleplay/bothering the DM fodder- see something for only a brief time that you wish you could study more? Memorize it! Text in a language or code you don't know? Memorize it, reproduce it perfectly later for somebody else to tell you what it means. Spending some time in a library? Memorize *everything*, convince your DM to give you bonuses on your Knowledge checks.

Best part, it's a fixed and very low DC to do- only DC 15. 1 rank +4 Wisdom bonus gets you there on a Take 10.

[Gavinfoxx]

Druid is an incredibly powerful class. If you want to focus on Wild Shape, several things can help.

The following feats:

Natural Spell (at level 6)
Exalted Wild Shape (Book of Exalted Deeds) (at level 9 or above)
Dragon Wild Shape (Draconomicon) (at level 12 or above)
Frozen Wild Shape (Frostburn) (at level 9 or above)

Also, spend some time reading this google document of a Druid I helped someone make..

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17bYfVxcXM8uKmxtQAOHgKN7MNchvqcMw31R-k-NPrTw/edit?authkey=CLWf4ugH

[Kadiith]

Been reading Autohypnosis (took forever to find, it wasn't in any of the books I have. Yay for d20srd) and it's officially awesome. As soon as they get off of work I'll ask my husband and/or the DM (they work together, so either will do) if they'd allow it. It's not in Redblade or the books they typically use, so I'm not positive they'd allow it.

@tyckspoon: If he allows it, I intend to do just that, at the very first opportunity. :smallwink:

@Gavinfoxx: Those feats are absolutely gorgeous. Definitely running that by him,though fairly sure he'll allow them. Especially since I can show him which books they're in. :smallbiggrin: Also, that character sheet has a good bit of information in an easily-understandable format. Love <3.

All of you guys rock, just so you know. Already making me feel better about the Druid class. :) Definitely appreciating the help and tips. <3

[Namfuak]

My favorite Autohypnosis trick is Memorize, which lets you perfectly recall text, numbers, diagrams, and similar images. It's fun roleplay/bothering the DM fodder- see something for only a brief time that you wish you could study more? Memorize it! Text in a language or code you don't know? Memorize it, reproduce it perfectly later for somebody else to tell you what it means. Spending some time in a library? Memorize *everything*, convince your DM to give you bonuses on your Knowledge checks.

Best part, it's a fixed and very low DC to do- only DC 15. 1 rank +4 Wisdom bonus gets you there on a Take 10.

The best part is it basically means you can force your DM to keep your dungeon journal for you, rather than having to write everything down yourself.



but wasn't certain how much actual casting I would be doing mid-combat. I'll have to pour over my spellbook and figure out what exactly I'd be doing other than simply buffing myself and my Companion.

Building-wise, I didn't want the negative to Con even though my favorite fantasy race is an elf, so we went with the next best thing and made her a Half-elf. Stats we put 18 Wis, 15 Con, 14 in Str Int and Cha, and a 12 in Dex. If those were wrong, I can still switch them around a bit.

What's nice is that keeping up your concentration score isn't a huge setback in terms of skill points (4 at first level plus 1 every level thereafter), and even with nothing else added but your constitution modifier you can easily get to the point where you have a better than 50% chance of being able to cast your highest level spells in combat with no AoOs provoked. The DC is 15+spell level, which makes it 18 for 3rd level spells (which you can cast at 6th level when you get natural spell). 18-9 skills - 2 con=roll of 7+ needed, which is a 70% chance of success (granted, if you're like me the actual rate of success will feel like much less than 70%, but we are talking math here).

As for the stats, those look fine assuming you rolled them. If you are using a point-buy I would say don't even bother raising your dexterity or strength at all.

[Kadiith]

Haha, you make a very good case for Concentration. I'll be picking that up, since after reviewing my spell book again there's quite a few things that would be situationally awesome. Fire to the face? Yes, please.

And yes, I rolled the stats. The group I'm with have never mentioned a point-buy system, they all prefer the "roll these and drop two of 'em" approach.


Probably a stupid question, but I haven't seen the answer anywhere... The Exalted feats, do those have a specific requirement other than being good? The DM would probably allow me to have it any way, but I'd be able to make a better case of "but but but please?" if I actually met the requirements upon reaching the level for it. :smalltongue:

[Gavinfoxx]

You really only want the ONE exalted feet -- Exalted Wild Shape.

No other ones are really good for you.


And as a Druid, that means you have to be Neutral Good. With Capital-G-Good. Like Really Really Good.

[Namfuak]

Probably a stupid question, but I haven't seen the answer anywhere... The Exalted feats, do those have a specific requirement other than being good? The DM would probably allow me to have it any way, but I'd be able to make a better case of "but but but please?" if I actually met the requirements upon reaching the level for it. :smalltongue:

You are supposed to be about as good as a saint. You are the person Mother Teresa looked to for inspiration. If Jesus met you on the street, even he'd stop and say "Man, I'll never be as pure of heart as you!" You are the antithesis to the people in the book of vile darkness, who take puppies and torture them before cooking them alive and eating their hearts for fun (as in, if you ranked that on a scale of 1 to evil, you would have to be the same rank on a scale of 1 to good).

In practice, you really just need to be very opposed to any evil actions. Of course, since in practice PCs are generally just murderhobos, this can be an awkward sentiment to have.

[Taelas]

Dragon Wild Shape (Draconomicon) (at level 9 or above, likely take it at level 12)

Note: the feat requires 15 ranks in Knowledge (nature), so you cannot take it before level 12.

[Kadiith]

You really only want the ONE exalted feet -- Exalted Wild Shape.

No other ones are really good for you.


And as a Druid, that means you have to be Neutral Good. With Capital-G-Good. Like Really Really Good.

I was hoping it was that, and not "this particularly heroic deed has caused your character to become Exalted in the eyes of <insert owner of eyes>, granting you access to Exalted Feat(s)." Thanks for clearing that up, as well. :smallsmile:

[Knight13]

As far as spellcasting goes, inflicting status effects and such on enemies is generally considered to be more effective than straight up damage. However, since this is your first game, I would definitely recommend that you just go with whatever you think would be fun rather than worrying about optimization. It's pretty difficult to make a druid weak, so you don't need to worry about falling behind the rest of your party in terms of effectiveness. :smallsmile:

Also, if you want to have more options for great druid spells, I would highly recommend the Spell Compendium.

[Gavinfoxx]

Note: the feat requires 15 ranks in Knowledge (nature), so you cannot take it before level 12.

Sorry, you're right about that.

[Kadiith]

Hah, I had miswritten it as "take this at level 12" anyway, so at least the notes are still accurate. :P

And thanks for that, Knight13, I'll try to remember status debuffs and the like. Apparently my Wild-shape form of choice (DM suggested Fleshraker) poison affects Dex, I think it was? So part of the way there. :3

[Gavinfoxx]

DM *suggested* fleshraker?

Then use Venomfire! =D =D


Fleshraker is the best medium form for normal dungeon delving, but there are a ton of great large forms too.

Read this!

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0

[Kadiith]

DM *suggested* fleshraker?

Then use Venomfire! =D =D


Fleshraker is the best medium form for normal dungeon delving, but there are a ton of great large forms too.

Read this!

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0

We were talking about the different forms I could take, and we both agreed that leopard was pretty sweet. I mentioned how a Fleshraker Dino was like a leopard on steroids, with poison to boot, and he immediately said that if I wanted to do that, it would "be incredibly awesome, I think it'd be best if you did something cool like that anyway :D Have at it!" so I'm having at it. Didn't think of Venomfire though!

Can't *wait* till I get larger forms, since I have permission to "be as awesome and unique as the rules will allow" I have every intention of pulling random forms just for the fun of it.

BTW, that Druid Handbook has been bookmarked, and is now officially my DruidBible. :smallwink: