I'm a Werebear. Now What? 3.P

[Tokuhara]

I was playing a Half-Giant Warblade who focused on Iron Heart and Tiger Claw, and in our last fight, I was bitten and turned into a Werebear. I'm getting the LA and HD removed, but I have limited control.

So, what am I to do now? I had planned on Warblade 16/Warmind 4, but now, things are different. Any ideas?

[Fouredged Sword]

Max out the skill that controls your shifting, maybe get an item boosting said skill, and go to town with your boosted strength, size, and reach.

Seriously, this is a really good thing.

[Tokuhara]

A couple questions:

1. Do I have powerful build in Hybrid form? If so, a Sizing Great Falchion (traded proficiency with shields for it. DM said it was ok) would be good?

2. Should I change where I was heading? I'm currently Warblade 6, so where should I go from here?

3. Is there a Sizing enchantment for armor? DM ruled that my Belt, Amulet, and rings don't fall off, since all 4 are magical

[Fouredged Sword]

Warblade is always good. Do you get a wis boost in your hybrid form? A two level sword sage dip may not be a bad idea.

For the powerful build, what does it say? Does it say "one size larger" or "treated as large". The first probably stacks, the second does not.

[Myou]

If the LA and HD are being removed does that mean you're just getting the benefits for free? :smallconfused:

[Thump]

If the LA and HD are being removed does that mean you're just getting the benefits for free? :smallconfused:

From the SRD:


The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.

[Taelas]

Powerful Build is a racial trait. As long as you do not lose racial traits (and no, hybrid form does not cause you to lose them), you retain it.

Unless you want to focus on your new strength, there is little reason to change your build-plan. Even if you lose control and don't make the Will save, werebears are Lawful Good, so you won't end up with an evil character.

As for sizing enchantment for armor... no. There is nothing like that. If you want to wear armor in hybrid form, you need to have armor made for that form.

[Ravens_cry]

There is a property that allows you to call an armour I believe, donning it instantly.

[Volthawk]

Something I noticed that there are two enchantments for druids to still use their armour when wild shaping, but nothing for other shapeshifters. I guess you could adapt one of those enchantments to work for your shapeshifting.

[tyckspoon]

Well, you're a [Shapeshifter] now, so if you plan to make heavy use of your Hybrid form you could take a look at Warshaper instead of Warmind. Other than that, if you aren't having to deal with the crippling extra HD and LA, I'd just continue on as you planned and enjoy being able to turn into a giant freaky bear-thing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wait... why Warmind4? Warmind5 is, mechanically, much more powerful, turning on the 'bag of puppies' trick. Also, don't slap it on at the end, throw it in the middle where it won't hurt your maneuver progression so much.

I also suggest a few levels into Warshaper. Warshaper3 nets you the following while in your bear hybrid form:

Immunity to Crits/Sneak Attacks
+5' reach
+4 untyped bonus to Str and Con
Damage Size Increase on your Natural Attacks

Warshaper 4 also nets you Fast Healing to go along with your DR.

Nature's Warrior also has a cute ability called Nature's Weapons which gives a +1 enhancement bonus to natural attacks, and allows them to be considered Magic for purposes of bypassing DR. It normally requires Wild Shape ability, but you may be able to convince your GM to let you qualify.

To be honest, I don't see that your War Mind levels would have done much for you anyways. I'd suggest Warshaper instead, and as soon as you qualify for the PrC. Since it only requires a +4 BAB, you should be in this by level 5.

[Rubik]

Armor auto-adjusts its size to fit the wearer; however, it doesn't turn into barding so unless your DM says you can use the 3.0 version of the wilding clasp (or wild armor), you'd better not go into your animal form, 'cuz it'll destroy your armor.

[tyckspoon]

Armor auto-adjusts its size to fit the wearer;

No, it doesn't. Not unless your specific shapechanging ability lets it change with you, or the armor itself has a special property to do so. Most varieties of Wondrous Items either resize or are normally adjustable, so they stay on. Armor and Weapons are size-locked; a Large creature cannot wear a Medium suit of armor.

Lycanthropy uses the Alternate Form rules, which have this to say about gear:

Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

So, thankfully, you have an ability that specifically says your armor does change sizes with you. You'd have to ask your DM if the hybrid form is still humanoid enough to wear the same armor- I'd rule yes, based on traditional depiction of hybrid forms (basically human with animal features- walk on two legs, still have usable hands, etc). If the answer is no, you still won't destroy anything; if you can't use an item in your new shape, it just falls off.

[Rubik]

No, it doesn't. Not unless your specific shapechanging ability lets it change with you, or the armor itself has a special property to do so. Most varieties of Wondrous Items either resize or are normally adjustable, so they stay on. Armor and Weapons are size-locked; a Large creature cannot wear a Medium suit of armor. Huh. I could've SWORN that magic armor did resize, but I guess I was thinking about wondrous items after all. I couldn't find any reference in the SRD, so I suppose you're probably right.

[Fouredged Sword]

Back to the sizing being worth it for the sword, I would suggest no if you can wield it normally. There are better enchantments for added damage.

According to the re-sizing post above, the sword auto changes to the new size due to your shape shift, no magic needed.:smallsmile: How about that.

[Myou]

From the SRD:


The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.

Why are you quoting me? :smallconfused:

[tyckspoon]

According to the re-sizing post above, the sword auto changes to the new size due to your shape shift, no magic needed.:smallsmile: How about that.

It's a bit weird combining that with the Alternate Form size change, tho- Powerful Build lets you be a Medium creature with a Large weapon. That's appropriately sized for you. If you turn into a Large creature, a Large weapon is still appropriately sized- you don't take any size-related penalties for wielding it, so it's the right size and wouldn't necessarily grow any larger. If you want to be a Large creature wielding a Huge weapon, as permitted by having Powerful Build + being actually physically Large, you would still need Sizing or carrying around extra weapons to use when you're bigger.

[Averis Vol]

directly from races of faerun:
" changing form is a standard action........changing to animal or hybrid form ruins any worn armor or clothing (including any items worn) if the new form is larger then the characters natural form; carried items simply drop to the ground. characters can hastily doff clothing while changing, but not armor. magic armor survives the change if it succeeds at a fortitude save (DC 15)...."

so theres that, take it as you will.

[Fouredged Sword]

Had not thought that deep. I would leave the sword large and just get another enchantment that boosts damage, as the added damage from the size increase is unlikely to be a larger die size and will apply to both forms.

[tyckspoon]

directly from races of faerun:
" changing form is a standard action........changing to animal or hybrid form ruins any worn armor or clothing (including any items worn) if the new form is larger then the characters natural form; carried items simply drop to the ground. characters can hastily doff clothing while changing, but not armor. magic armor survives the change if it succeeds at a fortitude save (DC 15)...."

so theres that, take it as you will.

This bit was errata'd out of the Monster Manual entry for Lycanthropy. I'd have to actually look up the print dates for Races of Faerun to be sure, but I'm pretty sure the Monster Manual (and specifically its errata) would be the most recent and official ruling for how it works.

[Taelas]

directly from races of faerun:
" changing form is a standard action........changing to animal or hybrid form ruins any worn armor or clothing (including any items worn) if the new form is larger then the characters natural form; carried items simply drop to the ground. characters can hastily doff clothing while changing, but not armor. magic armor survives the change if it succeeds at a fortitude save (DC 15)...."

so theres that, take it as you will.

Races of Faerûn is 3.0, and outdated. Tyckspoon posted the correct version. Lycanthropes use the Alternate Form rules, which have been through many revisions, but the most up-to-date rules are these:



Originally from d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm):
Alternate Form
A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:

The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.
The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
The creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

[Tokuhara]

To explain:

I just posted the build in totality and blending (so Warblade 6/Warmind 4/Warblade 10 is "condensed" to Warblade 16/Warmind 4).

The DM just informed me that the Wildshape armors will count for my Shapeshifting, since he said that a Werebeast changing shape is the same as a Druid Wildshaping. I understand that mechanically, they are different, but thematically, it's identical.

I wanted to be a Martial Adept who dabbled in Psionics. And the reason for 4 was because I know that odd levels hurt Martial Adepts in the long run, though a dip into Warshaper could help. Also considered playing with Bloodclaw Master, though I haven't "optimized" for it. Overall, I plan on using my enhanced strength to deal more damage. My DM has my sheet (makes his life easier), so I can't rattle off my feats from memory.

The reason I wanted to add Sizing was so that I could, as I shift, turn my Large Great Falchion into a Huge one. My thought was More Damage. My DM likes to throw lots of mobs of energy resistant/immune monsters at us, making a melee guy slightly more viable.

FYI: This is our party:

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Incarnate 6
Human Saint Paladin 4
Half-Kobold (Homebrew template) Halfling Blue Dragon Shaman
Quorbred Grey Elf Generalist 6
PF Dhampir Inqusitor 6

Our paladin is acting as our "medic", the Incarnate is our tank, The is our quarterback and cone killer, the Wizard is our control god, and the Inquisitor is our skillmonkey, leaving me our primary damage-dealer.

Edit:
Forgot we had an Awakened Fleshraker Beastmaster 6 headed to the Beast Master PrC, who acts as everyone's flanking and swarm buddy. He will, at level 20, have around 10 Fleshrakers backing him up. Think a pack of Fleshrakers lead by a talking Fleshraker, kinda like the Raptors from Jurassic Park

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Bloodclaw Master works best if you plan on TWFing. If you don't plan on TWFing, then its abilities are not up your alley.

I suggest, just for the immunities, at least one level of Warshaper.

I'd suggest, if you haven't already, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Shock Trooper. Lets you power attack on a charge for stupid amounts of damage, but the penalties are to your AC, not to your attack roll. Since you have DR 10/Silver in your hybrid form, you're not really worried about taking a hit or three anyways. Toss in Leap Attack, and you're adding 3x your BAB into your damage rolls.

I don't know why you decided on Warmind, but you may wish to consider Psychic Warrior as a dip. Bonus feats plus some powers that are rather useful. For example, Expansion increases you and your gear one size category. That would, by the way, be in addition to the size boost you get from shifting into your hybrid form, and the effective size increase with Powerful Build. You will be a Huge hybrid dire-bear wielding a Gargantuan Great Falchion. What's not to love about that?

[Tokuhara]

Bloodclaw Master works best if you plan on TWFing. If you don't plan on TWFing, then its abilities are not up your alley.

I suggest, just for the immunities, at least one level of Warshaper.

I'd suggest, if you haven't already, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Shock Trooper. Lets you power attack on a charge for stupid amounts of damage, but the penalties are to your AC, not to your attack roll. Since you have DR 10/Silver in your hybrid form, you're not really worried about taking a hit or three anyways. Toss in Leap Attack, and you're adding 3x your BAB into your damage rolls.

I don't know why you decided on Warmind, but you may wish to consider Psychic Warrior as a dip. Bonus feats plus some powers that are rather useful. For example, Expansion increases you and your gear one size category. That would, by the way, be in addition to the size boost you get from shifting into your hybrid form, and the effective size increase with Powerful Build. You will be a Huge hybrid dire-bear wielding a Gargantuan Great Falchion. What's not to love about that?

Whut??? A Huge Werebear with a Gargantuan Sword? MADNESS!!! I have Power Attack and Cleave from memory, and I was a damage monster before, using my Maneuvers to boost my already massive damage and sent a few enemies flying. I'm starved for feats, because from memory, I have both Iron Heart Feats, as well as Snap Kick, to give me a freebie attack for a limited damage.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Whut??? A Huge Werebear with a Gargantuan Sword? MADNESS!!! I have Power Attack and Cleave from memory, and I was a damage monster before, using my Maneuvers to boost my already massive damage and sent a few enemies flying. I'm starved for feats, because from memory, I have both Iron Heart Feats, as well as Snap Kick, to give me a freebie attack for a limited damage.

Not so limited damage in your hybrid form. Your natural attacks would benefit from your Power Attack, and snap kick would use a natural attack.

Psychic Warrior would help you with your feat-starved problem, since over 4 levels, it grants two bonus feats.

[Tokuhara]

Not so limited damage in your hybrid form. Your natural attacks would benefit from your Power Attack, and snap kick would use a natural attack.

Psychic Warrior would help you with your feat-starved problem, since over 4 levels, it grants two bonus feats.

Sadly, I hadn't planned on being a Werebear. My DM threw us against some "Rabid" Bears, who turned out to be mindraped werebears. The last one soaked up a lot of damage, then bit me and infected me. DM told me to roll fortitude saves periodically as we traveled, before I failed a third one, and he told me that I passed out and had a lucid dream of becoming a bear and killing a villager. I awoke, and he told me I had become a Werebear. His idea of throwing a wrench into my plan.

[Stabbald]

I'm getting the LA and HD removed, but I have limited control.

How are you doing this?

If it's simply a case of the DM saying you can have it for free, then he's obviously running a broken game. In which case, I think your best bet is to find as many templates as you can. Vampire would be nice.

[Tokuhara]

How are you doing this?

If it's simply a case of the DM saying you can have it for free, then he's obviously running a broken game. In which case, I think your best bet is to find as many templates as you can. Vampire would be nice.

I was infected, and told me to ignore the RHD/LA, so I don't lose levels (we were level 6)

[Taelas]

It's also possible to pull off through level drain/LA buy-off.

[Tokuhara]

It's also possible to pull off through level drain/LA buy-off.

It doesn't matter at this point. The werebear died in a fight with a Dread Wraith and 2 necromancers. Need to make a new character. Debating between a Heart of the Wildernaess Human Shogun Samurai of the Order of the Dragon (QB for the Party) and a Dreamwalker Elf Winter Witch (Debuff Machine)