Help buiding a cleric using only PHB, DMG and MM

[Yajirobe]

Dunno what I drank last night, but i accepted on joining a campaign that the only allowed books are the Core Three (PHB, DMG and MM)

I must be a human (no non-humans allowed). I plan on playing a Cleric.

I managed to con my way into getting at least Radiant Servant and DMM allowed, but I doubt I will be able to pull Persist Spell off.

Think I can wreak havoc with only Extend Spell (DMMed)?

Any tips on build?

[Vegan Zombie]

You can always try for DMM Quicken!

[Yajirobe]

hmmm and that is an interesting proposition! What would be better? DMM quicken or DMM extend? I will start on lv 3, so I can only pull one of them atm.

[Vegan Zombie]

Well if your going RSoP, you will already have Extra Turning. What's your charisma score per say? If you pick up Improved Turning, a Reliquaray Holy Sympol (MiC 1000 gp) gives you an extra 3.

But it's going to take 5 turns a piece for quicken, so if you can't rangle up 10 turns a day, I would go with extend. Also, what kind of campaign is it? Undead heavy? Evil bashing?

Edit: sp

[Yajirobe]

That's the problem, I don't know!

The attributes will be a point buy, so I'll have 18 CHA.

What can i use so I can raise my turn attempts per day?

[Lonely Tylenol]

I would go with DMM: Quicken, as with DMM: Extend the broken rounds/level buffs that you would want to use are definitely not going to last all day, which means that you will still have to waste valuable rounds (or standard actions, specifically) casting them before each combat, which you might not be able to do. You'll still have to cast the spells each round with DMM: Quicken, but you're casting them as swift actions, which means they don't mess with your action economy. (For instance, on your first round, you could cast DMM: Quickened Divine Power and still charge, with bonuses of both. Next round, you could cast DMM: Quickened [some other thing] as the situation calls for it, like DMM: Quickened Righteous Might or DMM: Quickened Holy Word or whatever.)

[Vegan Zombie]

Especially at lower levels, I find the Divine Spell Power feat to be immensely useful. If you've already gotten DMM okay'd this should be no problem (it's also from CD). Spend a single turn attempt to up the caster level of the next spell you cast, potentially all the way to +4!

It's best for spells like Magic Vestment and GMW, but it's useful for Divine Favor and Shield Of Faith too.

Out of curiosity, can you tell us why the GM only allows core books? Is it lack of resources?

[Yajirobe]

Actually, no it's not lack of resources. I believe that, with our resources pooled, we should have every single book published by wotc. Maybe we are missing one or two.

The last time he tried to run a campaign, he failed miserably. He allowed a psion run rampant doing stuff that he shouldn't be allowed to do (like a spring attack using manifestations with not even NORMAL spring attack feat). In the end, we were all feeling as supporting actors to the main star (and not a pleasant company main star to boot) and we disbanded.

Thing is, I find him a cool guy nonetheless and he is an ok player. I drank with him yesterday night, and when I noticed, I agreed to join a new campaign. Guess who is also playing? yes. Psion guy. I won't back down on my acceptance (not before going to a couple sessions) but if he starts the shenanigans again, I'll leave the table with the head of that PC. You may find this an unnecessary grudge, and it is.

One of the things he said to my drunken self was that he was taking measures to restrain "excessive power". This morning, when talking with him about character, I asked what these measures were, he said he would only allow Core books but right afterwards he said that "additional content could be negotiated in". Let's just say that Ray of Ennervation does not provoke the chill I had on my spine when he said that. I know I won't be able to force an entire book in (that's why I'm not really counting on full spell compendium), but I'll make my best to have a leric that can nail that friggin player down.

He said the psion dude is going to roll a cleric as well. I must say I expected druid from him. Or another Psion.

[Vegan Zombie]

It's never fun when one person steals the show - and your GM recognizing it is a good sign. However, maybe talk to him about reviewing his players sheets and approving them before play. If the character looks cheesy as hell, he can veto it or nerf it.

The core books are probably some of the most unbalanced material in 3.5.

Also: with 18 CHA and Extra Turning, you should have 11 turns a day, enough for DMM Quicken

[eggs]

Core has basically all you need to make a decent summoner (Thaumaturgist is fine on its own, maybe tossing some Loremaster in for good measure).
PHB2 retraining makes Thaumaturgist a bit less awkward (to pick Augment Summoning up early, retrain it to something else at Thaumaturgist 2), but isn't necessary.
DMM: Rapid would be nice, but not necessary.

And it's hard to treat this as a difficult endeavor. The Warblade would kill for tools like Wall of Stone, Spell Immunity, Dispel or Teleport.

[Reltzs]

i like to play a cleric with a war domain god. and using alot of wall spells trapping enemies in your AoE/single target dmg spells. since good clerics can cast healing spells at the cost of a prepared spell. its like playing a plate sorcerer. (but using wisdom).

[Alienist]

The problem is that if the other guy is also playing a cleric then any cheese you introduce to make clerics better, is simply going to fuel his engine.

That said, I think the idea of DMM: Quicken is really cool. Buffing really gets hit by the ugly stick in 3.5 (unless you Persist, which is grotesque), which kind of sucks. This makes it suck less. I would go with it.

[Eldariel]

You're godlike. DMM: Quicken for early game panic buttons, have fun. You can go Zilla or Caster, either works. Trickery and Travel have the best spells, Luck has the best granted power. Mix and match as desired (oh, and Animal has Shapechange which is the best spell you don't normally get obviously; well, aside from Time Stop perhaps).

Quick listing of Core Cleric Spells I wrote long ago:
Offense:
Level 1
Cause Fear: Nice Will Save-or-Lose as long as the HD limit isn't a problem; unfortunately single-target. Close range.
Command: Nice Will Save-or-Suck. Again, though, single-target. Close range.

Level 2
Hold Person: Humanoid SoL. Handy. Medium range.
Shatter: Destroy weapons, armor, etc. Nice combination with Dispels and such. Close range.
Silence: Caster Will SoL, or no-save effect if you have some control effects to prevent opponent from leaving the covered area. Also, nice readied action to screw spellcasting. Long range (!!) multi-target.
Sound Burst: Meh damage, with Fort-or-Stun. If you have someone to CDG the stunned guy, it's alright. The damage isn't the reason to pick it. Close range multi-target.
Spiritual Weapon: It's a decent damage spell, especially since Cleric BAB is pretty good; it'll keep attacking for effectively the entire combat and it takes only a move action to redirect.

Level 3
Bestow Curse: Will SoS. Clerics have lots of these. Good for debuffing Planar Bound creatures or such. Touch range.
Blindness/Deafness: Blindness is an excellent debuff. Fort SoS basically. Medium range.
Dispel Magic: Magic is very powerful, so ability to stop magic is absolutely incredible. Disable Fighter's gear, remove buffbots buffs, save your allies from variety of SoLs, infinitely powerful. Medium range multi-target.
Invisibility Purge: Well, not really offense, but still. 5'/level range.
Searing Light: Deals crap damage to living or slightly less crap damage to undead. Yuck. Medium range ray.

Level 4
Dimensional Anchor: Well, only way you'll ever kill those outsiders. Medium range.
Dismissal: Basically amounts to a limited Will SoD. Close range. It's nice 'cause you can make it notably harder than normal spell of yours to resist by using stuff the target hates with the spell.
Poison: Fort Save-or-BeHurtBad. Meh. Touch range. Yuck.

Level 5
Greater Command: Multitarget Command that lasts until they make a save. Pretty useful, if high level. Close range, 30' between victims, mind-affecting.
Plane Shift: Everyone knows of the spells transportation capabilities, but as long as your target cannot Plane Shift, sending someone to say...Positive Energy Plane is a very good way of killing people. Basically a Will SoD with Touch Range.
Slay Living: Fort SoD with some consolation damage. Touch.
Symbol of Pain: Symbols are fun. Paint a bunch of 'em on some item, reveal it and watch opposition roll saves. Rubber balls are pretty nice, for example. Your armor is a good place too. This one is practically a SoS.
Symbol of Sleep: See above. Nice little slumberparty here. Though Mind-Affecting begins to be a problem on these levels.

Level 6
Banishment: Like Dismissal, except stronger.
Blade Barrier: Meh, it's a solid battlefield morphing ability that's also Ref-or-Take-Some-Damage. Not bad. Medium range.
Greater Dispel Magic: See Dispel Magic.
Harm: Fort or Take Damage. Meh. Fine for e.g. channeling tho. Touch.
Symbol of Fear: See Symbol of Pain. Basically SoL version. Annoyingly Mind-Affecting.
Symbol of Persuasion: See Symbol of Pain. Basically SoL version. Annoyingly Mind-Affecting.
Undeath to Death: Great for killing undead. Medium range 40' bunch.

Level 7
Blasphemy/Dictum/Holy Word/Word of Chaos: Boost your caster level and world will tremble. No-save death or at least be screwed depending on your CL. Only SR can save people here (and with your buffed CL, rarely).
Destruction: Fort SoD. Close range. Nice 10d6 consolation damage.
Dimensional Lock: Like Dimensional Anchor, except gotta somehow restrict opponent's movement, but it offers no save.
Symbol of Stunning: See Symbol of Pain, SoL version.
Symbol of Weakness: See Symbol of Pain, SoS version (most characters can't carry their stuff after that Fort-damage).

Level 8
Earthquake: A rather versatile offense spell that can be used to lock down opponents or such depending on terrain. Damage isn't impressive but the conditions it can impose, often without save, are. Also nicely stops activity while it's going. If DM says the save stops the Pinned-condition too, it becomes much worse.
Fire Storm: Deals a bunch of damage. Meh.
Symbol of Death: See Symbol of Pain, SoD version.
Symbol of Insanity: See Symbol of Pain, Will SoD version. Meh at mind-affecting.

Level 9
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Gate: Solars are good.
Implosion: Boom Boom. Kinda expensive, but at least it can kill multiple folks.
Field Alteration + Ally Generation:
Level 1
Obscuring Mist: Nice way to stop annoying targeted spells, archery and such. Gives melee full miss chance thoo. Limits yourself too tho. Personal range.
Summon Monster I: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 2
Darkness: Older version of Darkness. Touch range, can toss the object or such.
Summon Monster II: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 3
Animate Dead: Material components are kinda meh. Eternally usable and faithful underlings are pretty handy though, if you can afford them.
Daylight: Mostly when dealing with Underdark races, Undead and such. Touch like Darkness.
Deeper Darkness: Sorta like Darkness. Unfortunately, it's not as Dark as it should be. Fogs >>> Darkness. Touch like Darkness.
Stone Shape: I don't honestly need to state in how many ways morphing stone can be useful, do I? Touch.
Summon Monster III: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Wind Wall: Pretty nice especially in larger conflicts where large squads of archers are a concern. There are pretty few ways archers can by RAW shoot through this, though you could argue that big enough bows and force projectiles would.

Level 4
Control Water: Very nice when water is available for drowning places, killing waterbreathing creatures in shallow waters and such. Just, useful. Long range.
Giant Vermin: You shouldn't really bother with anything less than Gargantuans, but with CL buffs those are available pretty quickly and particularly Colossal Scorpion is very efficient even against CR 20 challenges as long as the area is thus that they cannot just fly away (you can help with that); they have very high Attack-stats and the poisons are extremely potent.
Lesser Planar Ally: Solid allies, even if it's expensive to call. Try to call 'em when it falls under the "strongly ties to creature's ethos"; that's free and the XP cost isn't really that major. And Outsiders are pretty darn good allies.
Summon Monster IV: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 5
Insect Plague: Swarms are hardy, but unfortunately not very damaging at this point anymore. The Distraction-function is handy, but beyond that it's not very good. Long range tho.
Summon Monster V: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Wall of Stone: One of Wizard's best battlefield control spells is no worse for Cleric. Isolate enemies, buy time, block entries, make death prisons, whatever. Reflex if used to encase people. Medium range.

Level 6
Animate Object: Unfortunately Animated Objects have horrible BAB and such so they don't hit much. The special attacks are somewhat usable tho. Generally best with Permanency. Medium range.
Antilife Shell: A very strong defensive buff, here because you can morph the battlefield with it. Living creatures simply can't approach the area around you. NO SAVE! 10' radius.
Create Undead: Some of the undead are very useful. This is an expensive spell, but as the undead can multiply, provided it's not against your alignment, this can be very very handy.
Planar Ally: See Lesser Planar Ally.
Summon Monster VI: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 7
Control Weather: Slow to cast, but great for demolishing armies, cities and such. Not quite as strong as the 5th level Druid-spell Control Winds, but much more versatile.
Repulsion: Like Antilife Shell vs. anything, but with Will-save to negate. I don't like it nearly as much.
Summon Monster VII: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 8
Antimagic Field: Magic's good, all that jazz. Also, Initiate of Mystra makes this the most one-sided, unfair spell ever. 10' radius (suggest Widening; see Rules Compendium for relevant stuff regarding rules on this, it always confuses people).
Create Greater Undead: See Create Undead.
Summon Monster VIII: See the Malconvoker Handbook.

Level 9
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Gate: Solars are good.
Summon Monster IX: See the Malconvoker Handbook.
Defense + Buff:
Level 1
Bless: Not amazing, but every bonus is a bonus. The more characters, the better.
Endure Elements: Eh, obvious utility.
Magic Stone: Handy buff for Sling-users. Note that sling is a solid ranged level 1 weapon for high Str types, being quite light, almost free and adding Str to damage.
Magic Weapon: Handy buff for anyone. If a bit small.
Protection from Alignment: Great buff, stops all mind control in addition to solid Deflection/Resistance.
Sanctuary: Obvious utility, you aren't attacking anyways, so... Also can be used to protect another, who's about to go down.
Shield of Faith: Touch-spell that grants nice Deflection-bonus to AC.

Level 2
Aid: Mostly just Bless with few additional Temp HP. Pretty weak beyond the first levels.
Align Weapon: Occasionally absolutely crucial with early opponents packing some pesky DRs.
Bull's Strength & al.: Handy early on.
Resist Energy: Great vs. casters and energy-based creatures and just environment.

Level 3
Magic Circle against Alignment: Like Protection, except area-of-effect and stops summoned creatures and such. Handy. 10' area.
Magic Vestment: One of the best buffs in the game, allows you to, especially in conjuction with Animated Shields and such, give everyone decent AC. Use with caster level boosters for early +5s all day.
Meld into Stone: Fine "Invisibility"-substitute that's not trumped by most spells. It's hard to detect your presence without heavy magical scanning.
Prayer: Short-duration Bless (with Luck-bonus tho) and a penalty to enemies. Meh.
Protection from Energy: Like Resist Energy except complete immunity to certain threshold. I prefer Resist Energy though sometimes, when taking huge blazing balls of fire, this is better.
Water Breathing: Too obvious.
Water Walk: Yeah.

Level 4
Air Walk: Obvious. Notably, you still walk so stuff depending on jumping and such should work normally. Nice duration, though not 1h/level. Touch.
Imbue with Spell Ability: Divine Favor is a nice one, for example. Personal spells in general.
Greater Magic Weapon: Like Magic Vestment, except for weapons. The nice part is that Clerics can buff their CL like crazy so you'll have +5s in the mid-teens. Close range.
Spell Immunity: Stuff such as Enervation and such is very solid to protect people from. Touch.

Level 5
Disrupting Weapon: Kills undead. Handy in Undead-heavy scenarios. With iteratives, it amounts to a whole ton of SoDs vs. Undead. Touch-range.
Spell Resistance: 12+CL is a nice amount, without cap, especially for a Cleric. It's Touch so it can be used to ward the entire party and it's nice 10 min/level (if it only were 1 hour/level...).
True Seeing: Too obvious.

Level 6
Mass Bull's Strength & al.: When you have hordes of servants/underlings/whatever, these can be worthwhile. Party will just buy gear.
Heroes' Feast: Extend it for 24-hour Fear-immunity and Morale-bonus to Hit and Will-saves. One is enough to feed the entire party and then some. Should be staple once you get it given the DCs of the fear auras some creatures have.
Wind Walk: Kinda like your version of Teleport. Nice travel-spell if actual Teleportation is not available.
Word of Recall: Solid replication of one function of Teleportation. Nice overall.

Level 7
Ethereal Jaunt: Decent escape spell tho only 1 round/level and Personal.
Refuge: Nice "Oh ****"-Contingency to give to e.g. party Rogue or someone else bound to get into trouble alone.

Level 8
Cloak of Chaos/Holy Aura/Shield of Law/Unholy Aura: Decent defensive alignment-buffs, though they unfortunately don't stack with common protective items. There's still the "successful attack requires will-save vs. Confusion" and multi-targeting going on for it tho. Again, very solid if you have unequipped underlings.
Greater Spell Immunity: Good for the same reason Spell Immunity is good.

Level 9
Astral Projection: You pay some for effective immortality, especially combined with Plane Shift. Basically, you create a clone of yourself, for which dying doesn't make any difference. It's great how Plane Shift is a level 5 spell for Clerics. Multitarget.
Miracle: It does everything, most without XP cost. Just about the best level 9 spell in the game.
Etherealness: Handy for bypassing places and spying on things and killing ethereal issues and so on. And for staying out. I don't like spending level 9 slots on this tho.

[ericgrau]

hmmm and that is an interesting proposition! What would be better? DMM quicken or DMM extend? I will start on lv 3, so I can only pull one of them atm.
DMM quicken. As soon as you get 3,000 gp you can get a lesser rod of extend spell, and buffs should often use your lower level spell slots anyway.

Agreed that you shouldn't go overboard since even though your DM allows some things it looks like he doesn't want things to get out of hand. Casting 2 spells per round can easily do that if it happens every round, but once or twice isn't so bad.