[3.5] Creating Tira Miron's Sword (Eberron)

[EnderXenocide0]

So I'm looking to create the sword Tira Miron used in her epic battle against Bel Shalor. I want to make it similar to a Weapon of Legacy in that it has growing abilities that can be unlocked by the user over the course of the campaign. Additionally, however, I'd like it to have the equivalent of a Dual Legacy. That is, two sets of abilities that may be unlocked and utilized by the wielder representing the "good" abilities from its relation to the Silver Flame and the "evil" abilities from its relation to the Shadow in the Flame. The wielder in my campaign is a Half-Celestial Paladin/Cleric working towards Exorcist of the Silver Flame, so I'm trying to make the abilities uniquely different from what he gets out of these classes and his race. Here were some ideas I'd had so far:

Firstly, the weapon is a Fullblade (Arms & Equipment Guide, pg 7) which is mechanically the same as a Large Bastard Sword in 3.5, since Keith once mentioned that her sword should be a fullblade if statted in 4E.

Binding (MIC, pg 29) (+1)
Acts like dimensional anchor for 10 minutes against a creature you strike.
Banishing (MIC, pg 29) (+2)
Three times per day you can banish an outsider back to its home plane (I'd make the argument that the player could use it to banish fiends back to Khyber) if it fails a DC 20 Will Save.
Holy (DMG, pg 225) (+2)
So this one is typical, but I'm a tad concerned about it. Does this overlap with the Weapon of Sacred Flame class ability of the EotSF? Holy weapons seem to be untyped damage, but I could see an argument made for considering it to be Sacred damage. If it would be considered Sacred damage, I may stray away from it, just so the extra damage done doesn't seem like overkill that I've granted willy-nilly.
Holy Surge [Synergy] (MIC, pg 36) (+1)
If Holy is applied to the weapon, Holy Surge should be a must for it.
Heavenly Burst (MIC, pg 36) (+1)
Essentially, an on-critical version of Holy Surge that can be applied without Holy as a prerequisite. If Holy/Holy Surge isn't applied, this is still a good addition.
Flametouched Iron Holy Symbol
Instead of making the weapon out of Flametouched Iron (which would just make it good-aligned, overlapping with the Weapon of Good class ability of the EotSF), I'd embed the SF's symbol into the hilt of the weapon, treating the wielder as one level higher for turning undead and censuring fiends.
(Modified) Keeper's Fang
This would be the weapons highest ability, for both the "good" track and the "evil" track. Since Tira Miron's sword was partly forged from Bel Shalor's own Khyber Shard prison, I wondered: "What if it could be used to bind souls?" So this ability would trap the soul of a slain creature in the sword, keeping certain immortal fiends from reforming after they are defeated and prevening non-immortal enemies from being resurrected (despite the fact that resurrection is quite rare). I've been toying with the thought that trapped souls can provide a bonus to attack up to a certain amount, but I haven't worked out the mechanics for anything like this yet.

So those are the preliminary ideas I had for the "good track". Anything else you can think of for the "good track" / ideas for the "evil track"? Or comments on what I've mentioned?

[Kol Korran]

first of all, may i ask where you got that bit of lore? (mainly the name Bel Shalor... is it a Rajah?) i don't remember that piece. most of my knowledge of the flame comes from the ECS andthe Faiths of Eberron (which i read a loooong time ago) is it there?

isn't Tira Miron's sword what binds herself, the Quatl and the fiend? how was it found?

as to the sword. i don't know how weapons of Legacy work, but i guess you're looking for inspirations on powers. some thoughts:

- i do think the holy quality is sacred damage, in the description the PrC''s ability and the DMG ability are fairly the same.

- i think it would make the sword more interesting, more unique if you could come up with powers that are not copies of powers in the books. at least some.

- Tira was an inspiration, a leader, she broke people out of their fear of demons and raised a small army to fight the fiend's forces. i'd suggest to give the sword powers that reflect that, sort of extra auras. these could be represented by equivalents to a bard song (only lasting longer) or perhaps marshal auras, or things you create yourself, such as:

- at a certain radius, for 1 minute/ level all allied weapons become sacred/ holy/ blessed/ good

- for such and such timeat such and such range all troops get a divine presence about them- certain paladin abilities, perhaps 2 extra HD or such?

- the ability to summon allied forces- might begin with celestial creatures, then hound archons, then stronger archons.

powers of shadow of the flame: (since i don't know the demon i am only guessing)
- increased ability to bluff, avoid magical detection, and perhaps even persuasive powers such as suggestion, glibness, charm and so on (the target does NOT know a spell was cast if he saves)

- like wise abilities to avoid detection of alignment and purpose by detect evil and the like.

- a death effect ability such as slay living, anything that destroys the soul so no one can raise it or question it.

- perhaps the ability to assume different forms, such as an alter self.

- the ability to summon or call upon fiends to serve.

- at higher abilities the ability to change self into a demon. with all it's powers. perhaps

hope this helps! i'd appreciate an answer as to that source. (in my last campaign a character ended up doing the same sacrifice as Tira had, jumping to face the fiend and bind it. i have my own thoughts as to what the demon is. i'm curious as to what the cannon is :smallsmile: )

[EnderXenocide0]

Yes, Bel Shalor, The Shadow in the Flame, is one of the Rakshasa Rajahs, the Overlords. The name itself first comes up in the 4E Eberron Campaign Guide and Keith himself also uses the name in a number of his posts. I can't say any of the 3.5 books specifically call him out by any name other than the Shadow in the Flame.

The sword is not the actual binder of the three, at least, not completely. She and the Couatl's heroic sacrifice enabled them to empower the Silver Flame once more, which was enough to keep Bel Shalor under wraps again... sort of. Currently, Bel Shalor is no longer trapped within the massive Khyber Dragonshard down in Khyber. It is the raw spiritual energy of the Flame that keeps him from being released. As such, he has a much closer connection to the flame than any other Overlord and has used this connection to whisper to followers of the Silver Flame, convincing them to commit evil acts in the name of good. While Tira's sword was partly made from his original prison and certainly aided the Flame in rebinding Bel Shalor, the sword alone does not contain their souls.

The sword is currently embedded in the ground in Flamekeep, at the location where the Silver Flame itself protrudes from the earth. In my particular campaign, the player receives the sword in the future (don't... don't ask.) before being deposited back in the current time. So technically, there are two copies of the sword in my campaign. I treat the sword as being a conduit to the Silver Flame, and thus, a conduit to the Shadow in the Flame at the same time, which is why I was trying to find two sets of abilities for it.

It's been suggested that Bel Shalor was, in fact, playing the long con and wanted to be rebound by the Silver Flame, specifically so it could have a wider range of influence on the people of Eberron. That's what I'm going with in my campaign. Since worshippers of the Flame join their souls with it upon death to strengthen it, I have those corrupted and mislead by Bel Shalor join him in death, creating a sort of Shadow Flame of his own that struggles against the Silver Flame.


i think it would make the sword more interesting, more unique if you could come up with powers that are not copies of powers in the books. at least some.Certainly! I completely agree. I've been working to think up ideas that I didn't find mechanics for or ones that I would alter (such as the Keeper's Fang variant).


- the ability to summon allied forces- might begin with celestial creatures, then hound archons, then stronger archons.I'd hesitate with this simply because the Silver Flame isn't too fond of Outsiders in general, even if they're good. Perhaps it could conjure up the spirits of long-dead warriors who fought for the Flame, though...

I may not have an "evil track" for the sword, in retrospect. Only because Bel Shalor isn't all about the fighting. He's much more subtle in his approach, so the sword doesn't really reflect that. Tira Miron was a skilled warrior and strong leader, so her sword should reflect those abilities, but I might try to incorporate Bel Shalor's in other ways.

[Answerer]

I just want to say, Weapons of Legacy is a very poorly done book. Legacy weapons have a ton of problems: because of all of the (rather harsh) penalties associated with them, they ought to be somewhat better than you'd otherwise have at that level to compensate both for the penalties, and for the risk of loss. (In reality, few if any of the weapons actually accomplish this)

Meanwhile, you now have a character who has a better-than-fair weapon, which he's in theory paying for by having a risk of losing it... but the penalties are so severe (and so unfixable) that losing the weapon can destroy the character; in some cases it's so bad that the player is all but forced to reroll at that point.

So the DM is left with an impossible decision: let the player have the weapon risk-free (and potentially be imbalanced), or be a huge jerk and wreck the player's character by taking it away.

This is not a position I'd ever want to be in as a DM.

The idea behind legacy weapons is fine, but the implementation is awful. I recommend houseruling/homebrewing a custom solution for the sword.

[EnderXenocide0]

Yeah, I'm not actually making a Weapon of Legacy, only something like them in concept. The mechanics in that book are horrid and I would not put my players through that.

[Answerer]

Oh, ok. Glad to hear it. I'm not nearly familiar enough with the fluff on the sword to help, sorry.