Nifty little monk trick

[Emperor Tippy]

Take a look at the sizing weapon ability from the Magic Item Compendium (page 43). It says that upon activation you can change the size category of your weapon to any other that you desire.

Well a monk's entire body qualifies as a weapon per their unarmed strike entry.

So get an amulet of natural attacks with the sizing ability on it and a monk can change to any size he wants as a swift action. All for a mere 5,000 GP.

[Urpriest]

Any size as a weapon. Doesn't change his size as a creature.

[Vegan Zombie]

This discovery could raise the monk class by a whole tier! :smallcool:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Take a look at the sizing weapon ability from the Magic Item Compendium (page 43). It says that upon activation you can change the size category of your weapon to any other that you desire.

Well a monk's entire body qualifies as a weapon per their unarmed strike entry.

So get an amulet of natural attacks with the sizing ability on it and a monk can change to any size he wants as a swift action. All for a mere 5,000 GP.

However, despite any actual size change, the only mechanical benefits of this is the increased damage from his natural attacks. Thus you could have a theoretically 100 foot tall Medium sized creature...

Hilarity ensues.

[marcielle]

That might actually turn out better according to the ruling as he'd still fit in dungeons but deal collosal unarmed damage. OR it might just give him a massive penalty for him being too big to be wielded by himself? Or maybe both. Herpaderp.:smallconfused:

Edit: Half ninja'd.

[Flickerdart]

Don't forget that you can't wield a weapon that is too big for you - so a Medium Monk that is using this to be Huge no longer has an unarmed strike at all.

[marcielle]

Does that mean he can't move at all? Since his whole body is the weapon he can't wield?

[Big Fau]

You were beaten by a couple of years. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6086.0)

[Hiro Protagonest]

Does that mean he can't move at all? Since his whole body is the weapon he can't wield?

He can move, with no penalties. He just can't attack.

No one said it had to make sense.

[Emperor Tippy]

Any size as a weapon. Doesn't change his size as a creature.

That's debatable. It changes the weapon's size category. Per unarmed strike the monk is the weapon. Ergo it changes the monk's size category.

[The Glyphstone]

That's debatable. It changes the weapon's size category. Per unarmed strike the monk is the weapon. Ergo it changes the monk's size category.

Strictly by the wording of Unarmed Strike, the monk is not his own weapon, he can just use any part of his body to deliver an unarmed strike. So what this actually does under that interpretation is a perfectly normal, Medium/Small monk, who activates his Necklace and suddenly has a Colossal fist/elbow/knee/head without changing the rest of his body size at all.:smallbiggrin:

[VGLordR2]

So let's say you use this to make yourself a Huge weapon. According to the PHB, this will advance your Unarmed Strike from a simple light weapon to a two-handed weapon. This means that you have to use two hands to punch someone with one hand. Weird. Also, this should technically give you the Strength and 1/2 bonus to damage. Unless you want to rule that Strength and 1/2 is based on the offhand dealing 1/2 damage. In the case of the Monk, there is no off hand, so you could argue that the Monk will get double Strength damage from this.

[Flickerdart]

According to the PHB, this will advance your Unarmed Strike from a simple weapon to a two-handed weapon
Simple is a weapon proficiency category, two-handed is a weapon size category. It doesn't work that way.

[Empedocles]

Strictly by the wording of Unarmed Strike, the monk is not his own weapon, he can just use any part of his body to deliver an unarmed strike. So what this actually does under that interpretation is a perfectly normal, Medium/Small monk, who activates his Necklace and suddenly has a Colossal fist/elbow/knee/head without changing the rest of his body size at all.:smallbiggrin:

If we're strictly talking RAW, The Glyphstone's interpretation makes the most sense. However, if your elbow is colossal...would that not increase your overall size based on the average of your normal size and the size of a colossal weapon?

So, if you see that colossal is 4 steps away from medium, and you average that (4/2=2...obviously) and go 2 steps up from medium...you end up with a disproportionate, but still size "Huge" monk. That's not RAW, but it makes more sense then a medium monk with colossal body parts...

[The Glyphstone]

If we're strictly talking RAW, The Glyphstone's interpretation makes the most sense. However, if your elbow is colossal...would that not increase your overall size based on the average of your normal size and the size of a colossal weapon?

So, if you see that colossal is 4 steps away from medium, and you average that (4/2=2...obviously) and go 2 steps up from medium...you end up with a disproportionate, but still size "Huge" monk. That's not RAW, but it makes more sense then a medium monk with colossal body parts...

But it is significantly less funny. With my way, you can let your fighting capabilities literally go to your head.:smallbiggrin:

[VGLordR2]

Simple is a weapon proficiency category, two-handed is a weapon size category. It doesn't work that way.
Oops, my mistake. I meant Light, which is a size category.

[Flickerdart]

Unarmed strikes are not light weapons.

[NNescio]

Strictly by the wording of Unarmed Strike, the monk is not his own weapon, he can just use any part of his body to deliver an unarmed strike. So what this actually does under that interpretation is a perfectly normal, Medium/Small monk, who activates his Necklace and suddenly has a Colossal fist/elbow/knee/head without changing the rest of his body size at all.:smallbiggrin:

Next slap on Morphing...

http://ompldr.org/vZGg2eg/prototype-alex-mercer-af.jpg

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If we're strictly talking RAW, The Glyphstone's interpretation makes the most sense. However, if your elbow is colossal...would that not increase your overall size based on the average of your normal size and the size of a colossal weapon?
Consider the old Loony Toons gag of sticking your thumb in your mouth and blowing your fist up to ridiculous proportions. I believe this is analogous.

I could also compare it to one of the major occupants of my bulk mail folder, but that would be sophomoric, misogynistic, and quite possibly against forum rules.

[The Glyphstone]

Consider the old Loony Toons gag of sticking your thumb in your mouth and blowing your fist up to ridiculous proportions. I believe this is analogous.

I could also compare it to one of the major occupants of my bulk mail folder, but that would be sophomoric, misogynistic, and quite possibly against forum rules.

Well, in the rightwrong sort of game, that can also be used to make a Monk's unarmed strikes...:smalltongue:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Oops, my mistake. I meant Light, which is a size category.

Unarmed strikes aren't light, though. Or one-handed. They're in their own separate category. Which means that they don't become two-handed, they remain unarmed.

[VGLordR2]

Unarmed strikes are not light weapons.
I just noticed that. However, if that is true, then the weapon will not increase in weapon size category. Which is the only thing preventing you from weilding a larger weapon, as seen on page 113 of the Player's Handbook. If Unarmed Strikes are not light, then they will not progress in weapon size categories, meaning that there is nothing stopping you from wielding a Colossal-sized fist.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I just noticed that. However, if that is true, then the weapon will not increase in weapon size category. Which is the only thing preventing you from weilding a larger weapon, as seen on page 113 of the Player's Handbook. If Unarmed Strikes are not light, then they will not progress in weapon size categories, meaning that there is nothing stopping you from wielding a Colossal-sized fist.

Unfortunately, that is not true, as you have a size progression chart depicting the damage of Large and Small sized natural attacks. Thus they will, in fact, increase in size categories, and it will stop you from using one two sizes too big.

[tonberrian]

Unarmed strikes are not light weapons.

What.This text is of a color that could be considered white.


An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

[gallagher]

so if it changes the weapons size

and you have your unarmed strike be a pelvic thrust... :sabine:

[VGLordR2]

Unfortunately, that is not true, as you have a size progression chart depicting the damage of Large and Small sized natural attacks. Thus they will, in fact, increase in size categories, and it will stop you from using one two sizes too big.
They will increase by size categories, not weapon size categories. The only restriction for wielding oversized weapons is found on PHB 113. However, unarmed strikes do not progress in that way, and thus will not be affected.

[Lateral]

Next slap on Morphing...

http://ompldr.org/vZGg2eg/prototype-alex-mercer-af.jpg

No, next slap on Fleshgrinding. Think of the hilarious possibilities! You punch a guy in the head, your hand rips off and starts clawing at their face!

[Flickerdart]

No, next slap on Fleshgrinding. Think of the hilarious possibilities! You punch a guy in the head, your hand rips off and starts clawing at their face!
You only have one unarmed strike. So your entire body will be doing the flesh...grinding.

[NNescio]

You only have one unarmed strike. So your entire body will be doing the flesh...grinding.

Free grapple!

[Doxkid]

You only have one unarmed strike. So your entire body will be doing the flesh...grinding.

I like where this is going...

[gallagher]

I like where this is going...

are you thinking of slapping this on an incubus?

[Doughnut Master]

Also useful in brothels.

[The Glyphstone]

are you thinking of slapping this on an incubus?

No, the incubus would be doing the slapping.

Though it is worth noting that any body part that this is done to would, again technically, only be enlarged until the attack hit or missed, at which point it would shrink back to normal size.

[Empedocles]

No, the incubus would be doing the slapping.

Though it is worth noting that any body part that this is done to would, again technically, only be enlarged until the attack hit or missed, at which point it would shrink back to normal size.

Which could lead for a very exciting "attack" but much less exciting "damage..." :sabine:

[Toliudar]

Though it is worth noting that any body part that this is done to would, again technically, only be enlarged until the attack hit or missed, at which point it would shrink back to normal size.

Story of my life.

[JKTrickster]

In less than two pages, a discussion of whether or not the trick could work has quickly degenerated to a (only slightly) veiled perverted thread filled with double entendres and euphemisms.

Oh this is why I love the playground :smallbiggrin:

[Menteith]

If you're allowing the Monk to count as his own weapon, a single level of Shadow Sentinel allows the Monk to change himself into any appropriately sized slashing weapon, and if not, it allows the monk to change any part of his body capable of making an attack into any appropriately sized slashing weapon.

[Empedocles]

This is getting so confusing..................

[The Glyphstone]

If you're allowing the Monk to count as his own weapon, a single level of Shadow Sentinel allows the Monk to change himself into any appropriately sized slashing weapon, and if not, it allows the monk to change any part of his body capable of making an attack into any appropriately sized slashing weapon.

No need to waste a level, just take Versatile Unarmed Strike so he can do bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage as he desires.


In less than two pages, a discussion of whether or not the trick could work has quickly degenerated to a (only slightly) veiled perverted thread filled with double entendres and euphemisms.

Oh this is why I love the playground :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, I think at this point the thread has...

:smallsmile::smallsmile::smallsmile:

:smallcool::smallcool::smallcool:

Grown out of control.

[Menteith]

No need to waste a level, just take Versatile Unarmed Strike so he can do bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage as he desires.

Versatile Unarmed Strike would be required to enter SS. But there's a difference between changing the type of damage he deals vs. changing his body into physical weapons - that he arguably could change into whatever size he wanted.

[Ranting Fool]

Strictly by the wording of Unarmed Strike, the monk is not his own weapon, he can just use any part of his body to deliver an unarmed strike. So what this actually does under that interpretation is a perfectly normal, Medium/Small monk, who activates his Necklace and suddenly has a Colossal fist/elbow/knee/head without changing the rest of his body size at all.:smallbiggrin:

Bah I was going to make that joke!

[DigoDragon]

Bah I was going to make that joke!

I was actually thinking of the episode of Phineas & Ferb with the shrinkinator where Dr. Doofenshmirtz was shrunk... except for his hand. Then Doof gets crushed under his now-giant hand when he waved it over his head. :smallbiggrin:

[Gwendol]

And how exactly are unarmed strikes enchanted in the first place?

[The Glyphstone]

And how exactly are unarmed strikes enchanted in the first place?

With a Necklace of Natural Attacks.

[VGLordR2]

Couldn't you also do it as a Kensai?

[The Glyphstone]

Couldn't you also do it as a Kensai?

That'd work too.

[Chained Birds]

Take That Bears! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPlZ3aLD7_k&feature=related).

Just skip to the half-way point (If you want) and be amazed!

[nedz]

Oh wow, at last someone has found a use for the Monkey Grip feat.

Its still not spectacular: -2 to hit, for an extra size of damage.

[Flickerdart]

Oh wow, at last someone has found a use for the Monkey Grip feat.

Its still not spectacular: -2 to hit, for an extra size of damage.
Monkey Grip does nothing in this case, since an Unarmed Strike isn't a two-handed weapon, so you can wield one that's one size larger than yourself just fine.

[Occasional Sage]

Well, in the rightwrong sort of game, that can also be used to make a Monk's unarmed strikes...:smalltongue:

I'm not sure I want to play in the game where you can literally give the BBEG the Mushroom Stamp of Disapproval.

[doko239]

Add Transformative as well, and turn your... whatever... into a Colossal Greatsword :smallbiggrin:

[Ankhman]

somehow that reminded me on monkey d ruffy from one piece and his gear 3 ..

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/PSandNintendFreak/Gear_3.jpg

[Lictor of Thrax]

I'm thinking strongarm Bracers and the Stonefist spell.

Strongarm lets you wield a weapon one size up. Stonefist gives you damage based on your size and if you're a monk, you move up one size category on that list...so you would effectively raise your damage by two size levels on the stone fist damage chart, yes? No worries about being able to *cough* wield yourself?

[Flickerdart]

I'm thinking strongarm Bracers and the Stonefist spell.

Strongarm lets you wield a weapon one size up. Stonefist gives you damage based on your size and if you're a monk, you move up one size category on that list...so you would effectively raise your damage by two size levels on the stone fist damage chart, yes? No worries about being able to *cough* wield yourself?
Two things that say "equal to your size plus one" don't stack because neither changes your size.

[Venger]

Take That Bears! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPlZ3aLD7_k&feature=related).

Just skip to the half-way point (If you want) and be amazed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qQeOUVDVjw

related. more unarmed bear fighting

[nedz]

Monkey Grip does nothing in this case, since an Unarmed Strike isn't a two-handed weapon, so you can wield one that's one size larger than yourself just fine.

Are you sure about this ?
IIRC Monkey Grip is about weilding a weapon one size larger than you can normally. The line about two-handed weapons is just an example.

[Flickerdart]

Are you sure about this ?
IIRC Monkey Grip is about weilding a weapon one size larger than you can normally. The line about two-handed weapons is just an example.
Read the feat. All it does is reduce the effort for wielding a larger weapon - normally, you could not wield a Large two-handed weapon at all, a Large one-handed weapon would count as two-handed for you, etc.

[Namfuak]

2 things:

1. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the female monk aspect of this, like using her colossal [redacted]s to slap a kobold for 4d8 damage, or grappling a foe with her now colossal lady parts.

2. If we go with the interpretation that it increases the size of your whole body (I actually prefer this one, but I digress), would that mean that this monk would either have to go around naked all the time or buy very cheap, expendable clothing? I mean, unlike enlarge person this only increases her body's size, not her clothing's size. Also, would the strength check to burst an enclosure from enlarge person apply here?

[Necroticplague]

This talk about disproportionally large body parts reminds me of something...
hhttp://www.juegos.es/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/battletoads.jpgAnyone remember these guys?

[Chained Birds]

This talk about disproportionally large body parts reminds me of something...
hhttp://www.juegos.es/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/battletoads.jpgAnyone remember these guys?

Ah' memories... how they frustrate me at times! Stupid Nintendo-Hard making me think games of today are too easy. :smallmad:

[JadePhoenix]

somehow that reminded me on monkey d ruffy from one piece and his gear 3 ..

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd300/PSandNintendFreak/Gear_3.jpg

My thoughts exactly.

I feel dirty just posting in this thread.