(D&D) Fixing exotic weapons...

[ZiggZagg]

So, a lot of times, when anyone mentions exotic weapons in D&D, they are regarded as not being worth the feat because they usually are not much better than a martial equivalent. So, simple question...what could be done with various exotic weapons to make them actually worth taking?

[Yitzi]

Every full-BAB class gives a minor bonus if you take it as your first level; one option for such a bonus is proficiency with a single exotic weapon (those weapons good enough to spend a feat on, like spiked chain, are not eligible for this.)

[NeoSeraphi]

The simplest solution is to simply widen the gap between martial and exotic weapons. Increase the damage that all exotic weapons deal by 1 step, like making a Medium bastard sword deal 2d8 and a Medium Goliath Greathammer deal 3d6.

That will generally end up resulting in a +5-7 average damage per swing over the equivalent martial weapon, and will definitely be worth the feat, especially for a character who enjoys increasing in Size.

[DaTedinator]

What if you turn exotic weapon proficiencies from feats into tiny prestige classes that give you access to the fun stuff the weapons can accomplish? Anything that can't be made interesting enough for a prestige class gets toned down slightly and made martial.

Examples: Spiked Chain gives you the bonuses to trip and disarm at first level, reach at second, and some sort of sweeping attack (letting you attack multiple people as a standard action) at third. Or maybe third level gives you a special feint that lets you flank with yourself.

Two-bladed sword gives you TWF - but only with that weapon - at first, lets you make two attacks as a standard action at second, and lets you treat both sides as two-handed (for purposes of Strength and Power Attack) at third.

Whip is longer (Hah!). It gives you 10-foot reach and bonuses to trips and disarms at first, lets you deal lethal damage at second, full reach at third, you no longer provoke at fourth, and you threaten at fifth.

All of these would probably grant class ability progression at a 2/3 or 3/5 rate. But maybe not (or maybe less) if they're awesome enough; whip, for instance, might not need it.

I feel like this would be a fun and flavorful way to really make exotic weapons unique, and to represent the training it takes to use them.

Ooh! And for racial weapons, you could give racial substitution levels! That could either give you unique new uses for the weapon - like Gnomes who take hook-hammer getting a special trip attack that's better against bigger creatures - or could make it more suitable for members of the race's favored classes - so gnomes who take hook-hammer would get full bardic spell progression, rather than 2/3 class feature progression.

So yeah. I'm just sort of brainstorming.

[JoshuaZ]

The real problem is that one doesn't get that many feats. Getting basic proficiency with a weapon after one already is proficient in all martial weapons shouldn't be that hard. Instead of making getting an exotic weapon take a feat, instead let someone purchase such proficiency for 250 xp if they already have proficiency in all simple and martial weapons.

Edit: 250 may be too small. 500 xp would probably work better.

[darkbuu_1]

I switched weapon proficiency to a skill, full babs and a couple special cases get it trained, 1 point for a simple weapon, 2 point for a martial weapon, and 3 points for an exotic, double for non trained.

For each point you put into a weapon the penalty is halved until it's paid off.

Fighters get a discount, only one point for a exotic.

[DonQuixote]

Make weapon proficiency cost skill points, rather than feat slots. Like learning a language.

[Solaris]

Have you seen the Weapon Groups in UA? Exotic is a single group; take it and you're proficient with all exotic weapons in the groups you have. Considering how many weapon groups a martial character gets, that seems a suitable fix.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Make weapon proficiency cost skill points, rather than feat slots. Like learning a language.

That's actually a really awesome idea.

[DonQuixote]

That's actually a really awesome idea.

Yeah, I'm implementing it as a houserule in the next campaign that I run.

I've always liked the idea of using skill points to buy actual skills, rather than becoming better at making a roll. Obviously not as the core of the system, but some extra things would be nice.

[JoshuaZ]

That's actually a really awesome idea.

If so, the rogue will be really good at using a variety of weapons. That actually makes sense. If one does this one should probably in addition to the bit with fighters getting to use only a single skill point, probably give fighters 4+int (although I think a fair number of people do that anyways).

[Elfstone]

I would give fighters whatever they normally get each level skill point wise once again for weapons proficiency only if I were to use that as a houserule (not x4 at first).

[wadledo]

While I like the skill idea, I'd rather just go with weapon groups.

[JoshuaZ]

I would give fighters whatever they normally get each level skill point wise once again for weapons proficiency only if I were to use that as a houserule (not x4 at first).

What do you mean? Do you normally give them fewer points?

[Seerow]

Personally I combine all exotic weapons of a given type together, sort of like weapon groups. But rather than Weapon Group(Swords) or Weapon Group(Bladed Weapons), I go with Light/One-Handed/Two-Handed/Ranged

So if you want a Fullblade, you take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Two Handed), and this also gives you access to the Spiked Chain, and the various double weapons, but not shurikens, whips, etc.


I also have a pretty in depth equipment overhaul, in which exotic weapons are made to be strictly better than martial weapons based on a point buy system for abilities. Link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202722





What do you mean? Do you normally give them fewer points?

I think he means basically give Fighters an extra 2 skill points at level 1, so they have the points to buy a couple extra proficiencies.

[Elfstone]

What do you mean? Do you normally give them fewer points?

Your way gives 4+int per level(x4 at 1st) to fighters to use however. I play with Min maxers, so this screams to me "abuse-able!"

Therefore I would give all fighters 2+int (x4 at 1st) like normal, to use however. I would then give them 2+int every level for weapon proficiencies at every level*

*Every level until I got disgusted by the number of them he had and just gave them all to him.

However I like my personal method of either not caring about proficiencies(The PCs using them don't need to be shafted) or allowing a DC 10+[1 for simple, 3 for martial, 5 for exotic] int check after a week of familiarization with the weapon (walking around with it all the time or wielding it).

[JoshuaZ]

Your way gives 4+int per level(x4 at 1st) to fighters to use however. I play with Min maxers, so this screams to me "abuse-able!"

Therefore I would give all fighters 2+int (x4 at 1st) like normal, to use however. I would then give them 2+int every level for weapon proficiencies at every level*

*Every level until I got disgusted by the number of them he had and just gave them all to him.

However I like my personal method of either not caring about proficiencies(The PCs using them don't need to be shafted) or allowing a DC 10+[1 for simple, 3 for martial, 5 for exotic] int check after a week of familiarization with the weapon (walking around with it all the time or wielding it).

Hmm, maybe your groups are more min-maxish, but fighters have so little to do anyways, I don't think giving them a few extra skill points is going to really hurt that much. Does anyone see any obvious method of severe breakage that one gets from giving them 4+int?

[ZiggZagg]

I already use weapon groups, and it is a big help when they don't have to burn a feat. However, I still think they should just be better. The skill idea is also fascinating. Do you think it would be too much to give each weapon one extra increase (such as extra damage increase for big damage weapons like fullvlade, something quickly for double weapons s like attack with both ends as standard action, etc.)is AND implement the skill idea.

Reason I'm on this at all is that I'm trying to create my own D20 system, and I don't want martial characters to be such an after thought like they are in D&D.