One of my more powerful tricks

[Emperor Tippy]

I figured I might as well make this public.

We all know about the use of Genesis for time manipulation but that's merely scratching the surface of the power of this spell.

A planes magic traits are also part of it's environment. Specifically look at the Enhanced Magic trait. Specified spells and spell like abilities can automatically have a metamagic feat applied to them without the caster needing to even have the feat or upping the spell slot required.

Create a plane with the Enhanced Magic (All spells), persistent, extended, maximized trait, heightened (100th level) and use it as your buff location. No need for Incantatrix, DMM, or any of the other methods of getting a lot of persisted spells.

The really fun bit comes from the spell Planar Pocket in Dragon #304. It says "In addition, any elemental, energy, alignment, and magic traits of your home plane apply within the spells area of effect as well."

Make your home plane a demiplane that is mildly positive aligned with Enhanced Magic (all spells) (all metamagic's). You can now apply any metamagic spell you have (if you are native to a plane you don't get the metamagic feats for free) to any spell you cast without a caster level increase and gain fast healing 2.

For real fun, go and create a demiplane with all the above traits. On that plane get a tiny object and cast Animate Objects on it and make it permanent. Take it back to the prime material plane. Have a 9th level Bard use Inspire Greatness to give it two extra HD, use Wish to create a Craft Contingent Spell to create a Contingent Extended Mastery of Shaping Planar Pocket spell on the Animated Object (mastery of shaping so that it effects only the single 5 foot square that the AO is in). Activate the Contingent Planar Pocket. For the next 2*CL hours the square that the AO is in has enhanced magic and positive alignment. Carry the AO with you. Now any spell you cast can gain the benefits of any meta magic in the game for free without you having to have the feat, have save DC's of over 100, and you gain fast healing 2.

The Inspire Greatness part is so that the AO becomes a valid target for a Craft Contingent spell to be applied to, the Wish is so that it can be applied before the duration of Inspire Greatness expires.

The only downside of this is that you have to reapply the Craft Contingent every 2*CL hours. The ways around this are to 1) use an SLA wish to set the CL of the Planar Pocket at 20 million or so (and thus giving it a duration so long as to be effectively permanent), 2) equip your animated object with a spell clock of Planar Pocket, 3) as 2 but using a trap, 4) create a bit of wondrous architecture that casts Planar Pocket on who/what ever is placed on it and carry it around in a bag of holding. If options 2,3, or 4 are used then you don't need the bard.

Incidentally, this can also be done using Psionic Genesis as that is also let's you decide the magic traits of the plane; it only bars time manipulation. Pity that there are, officially, not enhanced psionic planar traits.

---
Figured I've kept this trick to myself long enough. It's also part of my unlimited spell slots trick.

[Kansaschaser]

Impressive....most impressive.
-Darth Vader

[KillianHawkeye]

This is utterly ridiculous. Well done. :smallamused:

[JoeYounger]

Tippy, I think I love you.

[Glimbur]

What stops other people from making Planar Pockets to your plane? Sure, you created it and never tell anyone about it, but it is a plane and Knowledge: The Planes exists. This doesn't invalidate the trick, of course, but it is a wrinkle.

[Killer Angel]

When Tippy makes a thread with the title "One of my more powerful tricks", you know that you're going to be hit by a power surge. Hard.

[Emperor Tippy]

What stops other people from making Planar Pockets to your plane? Sure, you created it and never tell anyone about it, but it is a plane and Knowledge: The Planes exists. This doesn't invalidate the trick, of course, but it is a wrinkle.
You have to be native to the plane. It's why you need the animated object created on the plane for your planar pocket if your DM won't let you declare a demiplane with the traits you want as your home plane.

[Flickerdart]

You can't just immigrate to your demiplane and then have it count as your native plane as soon as you've filed the paperwork. :smalltongue:

[Aharon]

Fair to share, and legal, AFAICT.

Some considerations:
1. Planar Pocket has the annoying limitation that "Spells that protect characters from planar traits, such as avoid planar effects (detailed in Manual of the Planes), also protect against the effects of this spell. A strict reading of this would yield the result that you can buff yourself just fine, but have to attack using your own metamagic capabilities, since opponents would be protected against the effects of spells relying on the magic traits of your home plane.

2. Why not use Planar Bubble (SpC)? Lower duration, but also lower level (Sor/Wiz 7) and not limited to elemental, magic, gravity. Also lacks the above restriction.

3. Inspire Greatness is mind-affecting, so you either have to awaken construct (SpC) first, or ability rip the object's immunity to mind-affecting.

@Flickerdart
That's why he uses the Animated Object - it was created as part of the plane. There is no clear definition of "native" I'm aware of, but this ought to suffice.

[Malachei]

Tippy, I think I love you.

Incredible. I had to save this for ensuing ages.


You can't just immigrate to your demiplane and then have it count as your native plane as soon as you've filed the paperwork

Interesting point. How / where do the RAW ;) cover being or becoming native?

[Emperor Tippy]

Fair to share, and legal, AFAICT.

Some considerations:
1. Planar Pocket has the annoying limitation that "Spells that protect characters from planar traits, such as avoid planar effects (detailed in Manual of the Planes), also protect against the effects of this spell. A strict reading of this would yield the result that you can buff yourself just fine, but have to attack using your own metamagic capabilities, since opponents would be protected against the effects of spells relying on the magic traits of your home plane.
Planar Pocket only effects people within a 5 foot radius area (limited to a single square with mastery of shaping). Where the spells gained their meta from is irrelevant. If I cast avoid planar effects then I wouldn't gain the benefits of the meta.


2. Why not use Planar Bubble (SpC)? Lower duration, but also lower level (Sor/Wiz 7) and not limited to elemental, magic, gravity. Also lacks the above restriction.
Because I created this before the Spell Compendium was published and never bothered to update it. You are correct that you can do it easier with Planar Bubble. You just need to cast it every other day after the first time (persistent+extend on it unless you heighten it up to CL a million or so).

EDIT: Incidentally that also allows you to pick up subjective directional gravity and the fast time trait. The only problem with Fast Time being carried with you is that your buffs get their duration cut. The way around that is to create a second animated object for a fast time plane and store it in your glove of the master strategist or gloves of storing, when battle starts you just use a free action to call it out and then put it away at the end of the battle.


3. Inspire Greatness is mind-affecting, so you either have to awaken construct (SpC) first, or ability rip the object's immunity to mind-affecting.
True, didn't think about that when I cut off a few steps in this. I use an Ice Assassin of an Awakened Small Animated Object that has benefited from an augmented Compression power so that it is Fine, still has 1 HD, and is absolutely loyal to me.

[Flickerdart]

@Flickerdart
That's why he uses the Animated Object - it was created as part of the plane. There is no clear definition of "native" I'm aware of, but this ought to suffice.
Quite so. I was referring specifically to the "if DM won't let you declare it as your home plane" part.

For more ironcladness, have the object constructed entirely on the plane, from the plane's materials. Make sure to put in a mine or something when you're making it.

[Randomguy]

So simple, yet so elegant. Others thought of using time manipulation (an accelerated time demiplane), but none that I know of before you thought of using enhanced magic. You're like some sort of D&D prodigy.

Extra fun comes in if you start to make constructs or undead there, since they are technically natives. Or if you decide to settle down, and make a family of superwizards.

Oh! If you create a homonculus on that plane (or a different type of construct that can become a familiar) and then make it your familiar, then you could give it a magic item that lets it cast planar bubble, and then you don't need to use anything from dragon magazine.

Would it be possible to become a planar shepard of this plane?

[Aharon]

Planar Pocket only effects people within a 5 foot radius area (limited to a single square with mastery of shaping). Where the spells gained their meta from is irrelevant. If I cast avoid planar effects then I wouldn't gain the benefits of the meta.


You're right, the reading I had in mind wasn't correct.

Since we've established that Planar Bubble works without these problems, the following is just a thought exercise:

As you said, it would allow for offensive use of Avoid Planar Effects (No Save, SR: Yes). Any idea what would happen if you chose for your plane to impede the spell Avoid Planar Effects? Both the effect of the spell and the effect of the trait Impeded Magic (Avoid Planar effects) are specific, so it isn't an easy case of specific trumps general.

[Emperor Tippy]

You're right, the reading I had in mind wasn't correct.

Since we've established that Planar Bubble works without these problems, the following is just a thought exercise:

As you said, it would allow for offensive use of Avoid Planar Effects (No Save, SR: Yes). Any idea what would happen if you chose for your plane to impede the spell Avoid Planar Effects? Both the effect of the spell and the effect of the trait Impeded Magic (Avoid Planar effects) are specific, so it isn't an easy case of specific trumps general.
Planar Bubble doesn't have the line about avoid planar effects in it (unlike Planar Pocket), so what would matter is how the spell interacts with Impeded or Limited magic (you are better off using Limited as it flat out stops certain magic from working).

Unfortunately they all only apply to spells cast within the area, so someone could use Avoid Planar Effects offensively to shut this down (although that's where your Spellblade comes in).

[mattie_p]

Oh Genesis, Ice Assassin, and Aleax, are there any problems you can't solve?

[killem2]

While reading it over, it looks neat, but i can't help buy equate this to reading those car magazines with all the old timey cars for sale. They look awesome, but I will never experience.

Can I ask, what this does for you? In stupid man terms? :smallbiggrin:

[Emperor Tippy]

Can I ask, what this does for you? In stupid man terms? :smallbiggrin:
In game terms? It's the most efficient means of free metamagic. This makes traditional mailman and meta mitigation builds pretty much obsolete and doesn't actually require that you devote any levels or feats to the concept. Using the Heighten option is means that the only way you won't beat SR is if the creature has magic immunity, the only way someone will save against your spells is with a natural 20, and the only way that someone will dispel one of your spells is with disjunction.

Using tricks like this in play, without explicit DM approval in advance, is like all other tricks; only advisable if it is within line with the campaigns power level.

[Eisenfavl]

This is a well known trick, more traditionally done with acorns of far travel.
Because seriously, acorns of far travel are the way to keep your constant area buffs.
The spell was made to let dungeon crawling druids have forested terrain, but in practise Acorn of Far Travel is the best metamagic abuse. Ever.

[Urpriest]

So simple, yet so elegant. Others thought of using time manipulation (an accelerated time demiplane), but none that I know of before you thought of using enhanced magic. You're like some sort of D&D prodigy.

Now now, the idea of using the enhanced magic trait is an old one. Tippy's contribution is the method of carrying it with you over DM objections about immigration, which is certainly novel, though it feels a little inefficient. In particular, Astral Projection may manage the whole thing by itself, depending on how you determine which plane you're on.

Also, Tippy, I'm not sure that you can heighten everything to 100 like that. The plane is the entity applying the feats, and it has no epic feats that allow it to pass the heighten level cap, so it seems like it has to abide by the feats' restrictions.

[Flickerdart]

Now now, the idea of using the enhanced magic trait is an old one. Tippy's contribution is the method of carrying it with you over DM objections about immigration, which is certainly novel, though it feels a little inefficient. In particular, Astral Projection may manage the whole thing by itself, depending on how you determine which plane you're on.


You project your astral self onto the Astral Plane, leaving your physical body behind on the Material Plane...

You can't leave your body behind on your demiplane. You can't use your Astral form to take it there either because:


If the second body or the astral form is slain, the cord simply returns to your body where it rests on the Material Plane, thereby reviving it from its state of suspended animation.

So if it isn't there, this clause never triggers and you never wake up, which ruins the point of Astrally Projecting to begin with.

[Emperor Tippy]

This is a well known trick, more traditionally done with acorns of far travel.
Because seriously, acorns of far travel are the way to keep your constant area buffs.
The spell was made to let dungeon crawling druids have forested terrain, but in practise Acorn of Far Travel is the best metamagic abuse. Ever.
I don't beleive that anyone else has ever posted using Genesis to create a plane with then Enhanced Magic traits you want.

That is my more powerful trick. Using Planar Pocket/Planar Bubble to carry the plane with you is something that can be replicated with an Acorn of Far Travel, other posts on such use of AoFT deal with finding a preexisting location with the effects you want.

Additionally, the AoFT trick only works with ambiguous rules reading. All AoFT actually does is, if you choose to consume the acorn as a material component, let you cast a single spell as if you were standing in forested terrain. If AoFT actually did what you want it to then that line wouldn't be necessary because per the previous line you would already be in forested terrain.

Unlike that, using Planar Bubble/Pocket on an animated object created in the area in question has no ambiguity at all.

[SiuiS]

You have to be native to the plane. It's why you need the animated object created on the plane for your planar pocket if your DM won't let you declare a demiplane with the traits you want as your home plane.

Reincarnation or being a self-incarnating entity can fix that. Did something similar but initially less abuse-y by having a half-elf become a full fey creature - in my new, time-accelerated and dissociated demiplane.


Fair to share, and legal, AFAICT.

Some considerations:
1. Planar Pocket has the annoying limitation that "Spells that protect characters from planar traits, such as avoid planar effects (detailed in Manual of the Planes), also protect against the effects of this spell. A strict reading of this would yield the result that you can buff yourself just fine, but have to attack using your own metamagic capabilities, since opponents would be protected against the effects of spells relying on the magic traits of your home plane.

2. Why not use Planar Bubble (SpC)? Lower duration, but also lower level (Sor/Wiz 7) and not limited to elemental, magic, gravity. Also lacks the above restriction.

3. Inspire Greatness is mind-affecting, so you either have to awaken construct (SpC) first, or ability rip the object's immunity to mind-affecting.

@Flickerdart
That's why he uses the Animated Object - it was created as part of the plane. There is no clear definition of "native" I'm aware of, but this ought to suffice.

I've lent most all my books away these last few months, but;
Does not the planar handbook have a wizard ACF that does this? You benefit from the magic traits of a plane you've visited, and at the low end of power Faerie still gives you a lot of stuff... Or am I misremembering?

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Once again, Tippy proves he equals win.

[Spuddles]

Does bardsong work on constructs?

[Killer Angel]

This is a well known trick,

citation link needed.

[Urpriest]

citation link needed.

At the very least it was mentioned the last time I had a "how to protect your Demiplane" thread. And IIRC none of the responders there were uber-optimizers, so the idea has definitely percolated around a fair bit. Don't know if it's seriously old since I don't have history on gleemax/bg though.

[killem2]

In game terms? It's the most efficient means of free metamagic. This makes traditional mailman and meta mitigation builds pretty much obsolete and doesn't actually require that you devote any levels or feats to the concept. Using the Heighten option is means that the only way you won't beat SR is if the creature has magic immunity, the only way someone will save against your spells is with a natural 20, and the only way that someone will dispel one of your spells is with disjunction.

Using tricks like this in play, without explicit DM approval in advance, is like all other tricks; only advisable if it is within line with the campaigns power level.

Very neat. My DM would allow anything with in the rules. Dunno if I'd ever get to a point where this is needed though lol.

[Misery Esquire]

EDIT: Incidentally that also allows you to pick up subjective directional gravity and the fast time trait. The only problem with Fast Time being carried with you is that your buffs get their duration cut...

So, being away from my books at the moment, and never having gotten into this sort of Genesis-assisted mess, is there a slow time trait for year-long buffs?

:smalltongue:

[Parra]

If you were to die on your demi-plane and be Reincarnated (as the spell) while still on the demi-plane would you then count as a native of your demi-plane?

[shaikujin]

The planar trait "Subjective Directional Gravity" looks like it could be fun too. I'm not sure how this can be better put to use though, so I'll just put up the premise here:

Paraphrasing the "Subjective Directional Gravity" planar trait:

As a free action once per round, you can make a DC 16 Wisdom check to chose "falling" in any direction and move 150 feet in the first round, and 300 feet in subsequent rounds.


I thought falling constitutes as a movement action, however, here's some expanded movement rules:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a

Under "Fast Freefalls", a flying creature can use a move action to adding up to twice its flying speed to the distance it freefalls.

This seems to indicate that you can still use your move action on top of falling. If deliberately falling doesn't take up any actions, it's in effect free movement, right (albeit in a straight line)?


Speed of a freefall is 500 in round 1, and 1,000 feet in subsequent rounds. Exiting a freefall takes 1 of the options below:

1) A full-round action (during which the creature falls 500 or 1,000 feet)
2) Changing the direction of gravity on you (free action, but once per round and requires a DC 16 Wisdom check)
3) A feather fall spell/effect to reduce falling speed to 60 feet a round (at will feather fall items or abilities would be really nice)


What can this be used for?

[Person_Man]

Tippy, you're obviously a very creative player. But have you actually tried any of your theoretical world destroying tricks in a real life game? I'd be interested in hearing how your group reacted?

And on a completely unrelated side note, I just noticed we're both in the DC area. Where do you game?

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Have you seen Soro_Lost's answer to why genesis doesn't allow time trait manipulation. If a DM is silly enough to allow default planes to be accessible rather than just exist, you could of cou

[Emperor Tippy]

Tippy, you're obviously a very creative player. But have you actually tried any of your theoretical world destroying tricks in a real life game? I'd be interested in hearing how your group reacted?
Yep, I've played with most everything I mention at one point or another. My group is just fine with it, largely because we all play that way. Stuff like this is used in games that are explicitly about very high end play.


And on a completely unrelated side note, I just noticed we're both in the DC area. Where do you game?
At my house.



Have you seen Soro_Lost's answer to why genesis doesn't allow time trait manipulation. If a DM is silly enough to allow default planes to be accessible rather than just exist, you could of cou

Soro_Lost is wrong (as usual) and his position is indefensible under the rules. It's a fine house rule but that is all it is. Planar traits are part of the environment, demiplanes explicitly have incredibly varied planar traits, the psionic version of genesis explicitly prevents you from manipulating the time trait (which would not be necessary if it was not part of the environment and would otherwise be malleable).

[The Bandicoot]

I've seen a few tippy tricks and this one just solidifies that the equation is correct. Tippy does equal win.