To multiclass or not to multiclass? That is the question.

[Gharkash]

So, i am a level 5 human swordsage, traded Desert Wind for Iron Heart and rolling with a two-handed Str>Dex>Wis build (probably will boost Wis moar than Dex though).

Feats: Iproved Initiative, Adaptive Style, Quickdraw (don't judge me, i like it).

Maneuver focus on Diamond Mind/Tiger Claw, then Iron heart, some Stone Dragon and lastly Setting Sun/Shadow Hand.

The concept is a versatile scholar of the blade, a man that has a furious, bestial personality but Zen-like training, thus he searches for a way to use both, to be able to harvest the power of beast and man alike (has been done before but i like it).

Currently i am going straight swordsage, but:
I am considering to multiclass, not heavily, maybe a two level dip, to something that will be fun, efficient and fits with the flavor of the char, or find a good prc that does that.

As for now, my feats lead to Stormguard Warrior and Robilar's, for the concept of ruining your opponents Battle Rhythm (Avalance of Blades, Time Stands Still, Mongooses), then leaving an oppening that you will later exploit through forgoing your OA to get damage/to-hit bonuses at the next round.

Any one has a good idea for a dip/PrC that worths the three maneuvers and one stance loss, as well the Dual Boost? Any better ideas for feats from now on?

Your feedback is welcome.

[Flickerdart]

How high will your campaign go? If it's not going to 20, then ducking out of Swordsage for two levels only loses you 1 IL, while potentially gaining you something nice (two bonus Fighter feats, if you're feeling the pressure, for instance, or CCleric for some Knowledge Devotion goodness). Generally, though, the ToB classes are perfectly viable for 1-20.

[Aegis013]

Lion Spirit Totem, Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 for your first two levels gets you rage (or Frenzy or whatever else you may look to trade it for, I think there are variants that might be more thematic for what you described), Pounce which is always wonderful, and Improved Trip which is great if you have a weapon that can trip.

The Totem things exchange for different things, so they could be taken together, but your DM might not like the idea of Lion Spirit Totem and Wolf Totem.

[Gharkash]

We will go to 20, dont know where we will go from there. I should have mentioned that i dislike caster classes mixed with martial ones, for example if Travel Devotion can be taken without the cleric dip as a feat, i would consider it (even though it adds to mobility purely).

[Flickerdart]

Travel Devotion can be taken without Cleric, but you would only have one use of it per day.

Pounce isn't worth much to a Swordsage, who will use maneuvers for the majority of his actions. However, Barbarians have a ton of other ACFs - in addition to the Wolf Totem for Improved Trip, you can trade away Rage for Favored Enemy and Ranger combat styles (quite in keeping with a knowledgeable combatant, and free TWF goes nicely with Tiger Claw), and pick up Bear/Spirit Bear Totem for Improved Grapple or Improved Grab respectively, representing a good wrestler.

[Suddo]

2 levels of crusader and you could go Master of Nine. Beyond that what were you thinking about dipping.

[Righteous Doggy]

Never hurts to multiclass with a TOB class, unless you really want that progression super asap and hate the idea of losing a level.
With a warblade I usually dip 1 in swordsage and a pick of variant barbarian, can't hurt to do it the other way around. A cool type of barbarian or monk might work nicely(so many types of both to pick from too!)
If you don't mind me asking, why not a warblade if your going for something more savage? They get the styles you favor, more skillpoints since int isn't a dump, and also do the meditation and practice.

[Gharkash]

If you don't mind me asking, why not a warblade if your going for something more savage?

DM does not really like ToB, he let me only play Swordsage from it.


Master of Nine

I thought of that, but the feat requirements were too damn high.

Is there a site or something that icludes all these ACFs you are mentioning?


Never hurts to multiclass with a TOB class, unless you really want that progression super asap and hate the idea of losing a level.

I have to Admit that i like them maneuvers much, but i am open to discusion if something makes me more efficient/versatile.

[Flickerdart]

When the question is "is there a list" for 3.5 anything, the answer is always yes (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872054/Alternative_Class_Features_III)!

[Righteous Doggy]

DM does not really like ToB, he let me only play Swordsage from it.

Ouch... That happens far too often. I always thought swordsage was way crazier than warblade on first look too. Oh wells! I still push for barbarian. Would push the point of savagery well, and lots of variants that you can sometimes stack.. Ranger/Druid variant for feats/flavor? Anything else of the top of my head is too magical or has finesse instead of zen or beast stuffs

[Gharkash]

I always thought swordsage was way crazier than warblade on first look too

Way less intimidating than a Str base, full bab d12 hit dice dude that smacks things while being fabulous:smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the list Flickerdart, any other recommendations are welcome.

[Gharkash]

I always thought swordsage was way crazier than warblade on first look too

Way less intimidating than a Str base, full bab d12 hit dice dude that smacks things while being fabulous:smallbiggrin:

Thanks for the list Flickerdart, any other recommendations are welcome.

[Righteous Doggy]

Barbarians are very intimidating, its a class feature! but weren't we talking about warblade?:smalltongue: My 18 int/str warblade was outmatched by the orc barbarian every encounter when I first tried warblade. I could see where someone could be intimidated by fighters with nice things though.

[Gharkash]

first tried warblade

This could be the keyword there, not sure.

I was also talking about the warblade though.

[Righteous Doggy]

Erm... it was a joke and an example. I'd already made 9 or so warblade characters, 2 dips. and tried for using one in another campaign. neither of us were optomized. I just thought it was a good side by side example from real life experience.

[Gharkash]

Din not want to insult. My comprehension and humor this late at night are somehow hindered:smallsmile:

[Gharkash]

My probably last question, Ferocity looks interesting, but does losing 2 maneuvers,a stance and dual boost worth it for having it once each day?

[Flickerdart]

If you want it more times per day, then Extra Rage is your friend, but it's not really worth losing maneuver progression over.

[navar100]

Two levels of monk for saving throws boost and evasion.
Two levels of rogue for evasion and lots of skill points.
Two levels of fighter for two feats.
Two levels of crusader or warblade for White Raven Tactics, crusader if you're really interested in Thicket of Blades stance, warblade if you're really interested in Iron Heart Endurance.
Two levels of sorcerer or wizard for Shield, True Strike, and Enlarge Person.

[Gharkash]

Evasion in a class that already gets evasion?

[DrMike105]

One thing to consider is that for every four levels of medium BAB you trade out for full BAB, your final BAB increases by one. Maybe three levels of fighter (with sneak attack and thug variants) plus one level of barbarian nets you 16 total BAB, a 4th attack, 2d6 sneak attack, rage, a 5th attack (whirling frenzy barb.), and pounce (spirit lion totem barb).

Edit: fixed sneak attack. Also, if you're going to rage, you might as well take Extra Rage.

[Flickerdart]

Evasion in a class that already gets evasion?
Evasion is not only good as an ability to keep, but also as an ability to trade away.

[Gharkash]

Evasion is not only good as an ability to keep, but also as an ability to trade away.

Point made.

I do not really seen anything i consider worth losing 3 or more maneuvers (i also consider making the last two 9th level ones myself). Any thoughts on the feats i presented? Someting better maybe?

[navar100]

Evasion in a class that already gets evasion?

Forgot about that.
:smallbiggrin: