My buffs need a bit more love

[Righteous Doggy]

So, I decided to play a Transmutation Focus specialist wizard, and gave up Necromancy, Enchantment, and Evocation schools, and take a homebrew flaw to give up most subtypes so that I could play a rather saintly character. However... my DM decided that the group won't be splitting up xp evenly. Its based on our combat damage. This leaves me rather shorted. Meanwhile the Ranger and Barbarian are getting nearly twice as much xp, and forgetting who cast haste/enlarge/polymorph/blah. I actually had to remind them that I contributed once. I spoke with him but we're not changing how the xp is divided. Worse yet, all the gear he's given us is melee oriented. he gave the barbarian a 2d6 x4 critical scythe, and so far all I've gotten is the weapon I had at character creation(which happens to be a homebrew trait that eats up 2 item slots XD). We're 9thish level at the moment btw.

tl;dr, I get less xp, too little love, and no magic items.
So, anyone have any thoughts? or ideas to help me out? at least a pat on the back for being a good guy:smalltongue: :P

[The Crash Man]

Wait. Let me get this straight. You're playing a buffer, possibly one of the most party-helpful and least overwhelmingly cheesy ways to play a wizard. You're not piling tons of buffs onto yourself and going nova in melee but instead actually buffing and helping your party members. You're being nothing but a good team player and helping to keep the group functioning. And the DM is punishing you for this?

I'm sorry, but this sounds like a load of bullcrap. My condolences that you have to even put up with it. How does your DM explain this decision of his?

[Righteous Doggy]

Well, I devoute one spell per level to a self buff, and the rest are utility things such as quick potion, polymorph, and enlarge person. So, mage armor, 'heart of' line and I have trouble finding more after 5th, but I'll do it when I get there! Essentially I have a bunch of homebrew flaws/traits so I can get 2 bonus feats, all devouted to creating the character's backstory and limitations instead of spell dc/caster level.
I was actually a warblade when he made the decision, I told him I disagreed for this exact reason. Its the only reason close to the ranger/barbar in xp. They made fun of the warblade for nearly drowning in a sewer so he kinda... got mad and left in story. This guy replaced him soon after. He justifies it with it being easier to track and make sure everyone contributes, but not everyone 'blast' and I've only found one spell that gets around my flaws that 'blast'(lucent lance).

[Randomguy]

It looks like you've got a choice between being a god wizard in a party of athiests or changing your tactics.

You could argue that whenever someone deals damage from an extra attack gained by haste, it goes to you instead of them.

Remember polymorph. You can buff yourself with it, too and deal more damage in melee.
Did you give up your familiar? If not, then casting polymorph once gets two 9 headed hydras.

How many encounters do you go through a day? If it's only one or two, then you can nova, and make the first turn the last turn.

You could try to start gishing. A level of fighter or preferably duskblade will let you qualify for abjurant champion in a few levels.
See if you can get a skillfull weapon, to get yourself a cleric's BAB. Make your weapon of choice a bludgeoning weapon, and cast greater mighty wallop and greater magic weapon on it. There's also blades of fire (get a wand of that), wraithstrike (wand if possible) (both of these can be persisted at higher levels), weapon of energy, sonic weapon, bite of the X, so on. Remember to buff up before you go into melee, and remember to share all your spells with your familiar.

Grab the familiar spell feat from phb2. It's great for stuff that doesn't rely too badly on caster level, like blur.

You could grab a reserve feat, to deal some damage when you don't have many spell slots left. Or, get something to make you less squishy, like Minor Shapeshift, for temp hp that you can regenerate each round. Or both!

Use more save or dies. Ask your DM if turning an opponent into salt, or stone, or a chicken, counts as you killing them. Same goes with dropping them to 0 dex (shivering touch ftw).

Abuse Telekinisis. Save up the parties old weapons and chuck 9 of them at an enemy at the same time. See if you can get a ring of telekinisis. You can also use the old weapons for animate weapon and steeldance.

[The Crash Man]

Random's got a lot of good points. There are many ways for a transmutation specialist to be incredibly scary, and you'll shoot up the EXP ranks in no time with this. But lets step back and think for a bit: what's the group's optimization level?

Ranger and Barbarian aren't exactly the most solidly-built classes. Suddenly upstaging them by going full nova with a pair of hydras is not just going to make the players angry, but also might make end up making the DM hit you harder with the nerf bat. While it is useful to have some combat potential, bringing the full brunt of what is widely considered to be one of the most potent core classes into battle might just end up causing a big party fight.

For curiosity's sake, how well did the barb and ranger compete when you were using a Warblade? Were they feeling overshadowed, or were they capable of carving their own niches? It'd help us get a feel for how strong of a character each is, and let us know just how much Wizard Power (tm) is too much.

[Emperor Tippy]

What level are you and how powerful do you want to be?

Ideally, post your race, stats, feats, and the list of spells in your spell book.

[Jack_Simth]

Well... you've tried talking already...

Perhaps switch to summons, and buff them? Anyone asks why you're no longer buffing your allies, point to the house rules that divide XP based on who actually dealt the blows, rather than the normal set, point to how the magic items that keep coming up are only useful for the people who are already ahead?

[Dairuga]

This is quite the interesting tale to hear, truly. And it is one of the few things that make me seethe, thinking about it; it is a sad day, when the DM decides to penalize the helpful party members, in favour of granting his benevolence to the classes he seems to prefer more.

But really, what is the problem here? You can plainly tell him that "If Experience is based on damage dealt, then I will have to resort to damage instead", and go all out blaster. Well, not all out, of course. Keep a small supply of buffs for yourself; Mage armor, the Heart of line, and so on and so forth, to keep you safe, but focus the rest on what damage-dealing spells you have. Having banned evocation makes that quite hard, but the Conjuration school has Shadow evocation, which; if enemies fail their will saves, makes you able to cast near-any spell from the evocation school as a conjuration spell.

Because, really. It is quite the exasperating sight when people tend to forget who is making them the warmachines that they are.

THe simply solution is, as mentioned above, to go full Strike on them. Don't buff them unless they make it worth your time. Let them see how long they can manage without a single buff from you, and see if they start missing your helpful spells like Haste and such, and if they do; demand that you get compensation for buffing them, either in EXP, or by them paying you for every spell cast. Sure, you can still keep memorizing Haste, but ensure that only you are affected by it, and not your teammates. And if they try to say, pull off three attacks per round (or four) without haste, kindly remind them that they are not hasted. If they try to use the reach they usually have, remind them that they are not under the effects of enlarge person. And possibly, remind them that they will not get those buffs again, because "You need experience", and every spell he wastes to buff these uncaring SoBs, means you are getting less and less EXP, and it is not fun for you.

A game is supposed to be fun for all the players, after all. So simply shrug, tell him that you are playing with the rules given, that you intend to keep playing with the rules that have been handed out, and that his rules are not allowing you to play the friendly buff-helper that you want to play, because it leaves you in the dust.

Also, for bonus points, do point out the item hand-out, and tell them that over the span of this entire adventure where your wizard has been roaming around, not a single item have been given to you; or have been dropped that have boosted you in any way. How he keeps dropping things for melee, but not a single caster-helping thing. You are a wizard. You are a tier 1 class, yes; but you are clearly not playing your wizard to abuse the rules. You are a perfectly valid party member, and should be treated like the rest of the team, if they want a happy, helpful wizard.

That is my two copper pieces, at least.

[Righteous Doggy]

What level are you and how powerful do you want to be?

Ideally, post your race, stats, feats, and the list of spells in your spell book.

so so, so so much to respond to! lets start here. So...

Human Transmuter 3/ Master specialist 3/ Divine Oracle 2/ early entry IoSF
str 10, Dex 14, Con 16, 20 Int, 12 wis, 13 cha
1- Wizard Collegiate, Spellcasting Prodigy, Able Learner, Transmuation focus, switched scribe scroll for Spell Focus Religion
3-Abjuration Focus
6-Improved Familiar
9-Greater Abjuration Focus
He's a prodigy, went to school, got kicked out and discovered his divination talents. He'll go into IoSF, then archmage ideally. Protection, and control.
spell list is asking to post alot. I'm a wizard, I can always learn more...


@Jack Summons siphon xp from the whole party, would be a way to get to them, but not help me haha. maybe I should, 320 wolves march into the field, we get 3 xp total to divide! deal with it or share with me! mwahaha~ but i have yet to learn them and we have yet to find a single spellbook... or wizard. I don't need magic items. i will ask for a lyre of building soon, or something to build a haven. All in character stuffs.

@Crash The warblade was heads above the ranger, on scale with barbar. the problem with them is they forget rules, or misinterpret. I set them right when i can. Like, improved two hand fighting gives two stabs with that offhand per jab with the primary right? 6 attacks at lvl 7? or full attack on all charges. No feats or special classes needed! Polymorphing will indeed rage the party.

@Random No good weapons for telekenisis(tiny daggers. EVERYWHERE. or they fight unarmed. or its a shadowcaster/sorc), my weapon is dedicated to that trait, every feat is important to the build, minor shapeshifting is my 12th lvl feat ;3. I'll pick up baleful polymorph and friend to foe next level. Buffs are his damage for simplicity(summons/companions just siphon xp). and most ability damage is necro. we usually fight one massive encounter per trip/adventure. Big enough to burn all my spells.

@Dairuga yeah, part of life. wondering what other people do. blaster is subpar, and I'll need to go deep into it. I have 1 blaster spell. If I really wanted to get back at them... those nice flaws I took will allow me to be possessed by an 18hd devil in my flesh who will couple that with my hp/skills/spells and go on a rampage destroying civilation bringing all the unholy dreams that made me a saint true until something stops that abomination. Which, with all that phycic power, super buffs, and demonic corpse probably isn't going to happen until a civilization is burned to the ground. Where is your god now puny mortals! mwahahaa~

@me oh god, what unholy abomination have you wrought, the textwall will doom us all! AHHH!~(hehe)

[Namfuak]

Does your familiar count as a summon, IE if it kills something does that take away party xp? If so, does it count if you use it to deliver a touch spell (so it counts as familiar damage, despite it being a spell you cast)?

[The Crash Man]

When in doubt, Polymorph is incredibly fun. That lets you get kills the Ranger and Barbarian can never even dream of!

If you don't want to go that hard on the game, though, you could go for blasting. The Orb line of spells is incredibly useful with Evocation banned, and Shadow Evocation mimics pretty much the entire school. Sure, blasting's sub-optimal, but you're playing with a Ranger. Not exactly setting the bar high there.

[Righteous Doggy]

@Nam Damage you deal directly is yours, companions/familiars is a small amount to none, summons are none. I have... no idea whats going on in the mans head haha.

@Crash Catgirl ranger who's blalently cheating or is stupid? and played by a guy... ick. I gave up orbspells with the flaws I mentioned, so almost no touches to speak of XD. My familar and me strike together usually, its a Coure so it gets a few abilities. but I keep it for a skillmonkey. Tongues, and it has thumbs. How many familiars have thumbs! Heres to tongues and thumbs!

Such a complex situation isn't it? I'll try to talk to him again next session. if all else fails, Polymorph and go nuts I guess.

[Siosilvar]

So... why are you guys playing D&D if you're (or at least the other players are) blatantly ignoring all the rules? Pick up Risus or some other rules-light game (I mention Risus because it's free (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm)) and go to town.

If that's not an option... well, consider the fact that your DM is basically intentionally screwing your character over and hasn't listened to reason. You might want to think about whether you really want to play with them. I hate to recommend leaving a group, but it's an option. If you go this route, I've had good experiences with the play-by-post forums here.

[Emperor Tippy]

Buy a Rod of Chain and prepare 3 copies of Flesh to Ice. Medium range, fort save or loose (SR: Yes).

Start off with one of those at range (should be around 200 feet) to try and remove as many of the enemy as possible. If it doesn't work, Polymorph into a Hydra (as many heads as your CL will support), hit yourself with Bite of the Wereboar for +4 Strength, +6 Constitution, and +8 Natural Armor, and go to town.

[Supermouse]

Yep, I would also recommend leaving the group.

But before this, break the game with ungodly transmutation spells, anger them, make them cry like little babies when they glimpse the glorious cheesiness that a Wizard is capable of.

You have Polymorph, that would be a good beggining. I'm pretty sure Tippy can give you some tips (oh, I'm so witty!) on how you can break the game even with your flaws and barred schools.

Then, when they start to cry foul, you leave the group.

Ok, Tippy already told you to turn into an Hydra...

[Emperor Tippy]

Oh, how able are you to get magical items? And what's your CL for transmutation spells?

Because if you want really broken that is relatively easy to do. Buy a scroll of Shapechange and you can party.

Turn into a Zodar, wish up a scroll of CL 52,560 extended Shapechange, turn into a Lilitu, use your Item Use ability to use said scroll. You now have Shapechange with a two year duration. You really shouldn't need any more help that that to turn into creatures to dominate combat. Mature Adult Red Dragons have a 14d10 breath weapon.

But I'm guessing that that is just a bit beyond the power level you want. :smallwink:

[Spuddles]

Buy a Rod of Chain and prepare 3 copies of Flesh to Ice. Medium range, fort save or loose (SR: Yes).

Start off with one of those at range (should be around 200 feet) to try and remove as many of the enemy as possible. If it doesn't work, Polymorph into a Hydra (as many heads as your CL will support), hit yourself with Bite of the Wereboar for +4 Strength, +6 Constitution, and +8 Natural Armor, and go to town.

Yeah, note the buffing yourself before you go into melee with polymorph. Polymorph tanks your AC, and with 1d4HP+3/level, you're one full attack away from rolling up a new character.

You still have illusion, so start stacking blur & mirror image.

[Righteous Doggy]

I never asked to be broken or should I ragequit >.>. :smallconfused: I'm a wizard, if i wanted to be broken I know a few hundred ways. I can divide by 0, introduce oblivion to absolution, and with 1 trick I know, cast vengeful gaze of god with choice metamagic ingame for 20 turns straight before opening an unclosable hole to the 9 hells. but... I won't abuse any of that madness.
I know builds, I know everything I need to know for optimization. I need help with people :smalltongue:. Please respect this. This is the only game I can go to at the moment, and I like doing things in real life.

[Necroticplague]

This is quite the interesting tale to hear, truly. And it is one of the few things that make me seethe, thinking about it; it is a sad day, when the DM decides to penalize the helpful party members, in favour of granting his benevolence to the classes he seems to prefer more.

But really, what is the problem here? You can plainly tell him that "If Experience is based on damage dealt, then I will have to resort to damage instead", and go all out blaster. Well, not all out, of course. Keep a small supply of buffs for yourself; Mage armor, the Heart of line, and so on and so forth, to keep you safe, but focus the rest on what damage-dealing spells you have. Having banned evocation makes that quite hard, but the Conjuration school has Shadow evocation, which; if enemies fail their will saves, makes you able to cast near-any spell from the evocation school as a conjuration spell.

Because, really. It is quite the exasperating sight when people tend to forget who is making them the warmachines that they are.

THe simply solution is, as mentioned above, to go full Strike on them. Don't buff them unless they make it worth your time. Let them see how long they can manage without a single buff from you, and see if they start missing your helpful spells like Haste and such, and if they do; demand that you get compensation for buffing them, either in EXP, or by them paying you for every spell cast. Sure, you can still keep memorizing Haste, but ensure that only you are affected by it, and not your teammates. And if they try to say, pull off three attacks per round (or four) without haste, kindly remind them that they are not hasted. If they try to use the reach they usually have, remind them that they are not under the effects of enlarge person. And possibly, remind them that they will not get those buffs again, because "You need experience", and every spell he wastes to buff these uncaring SoBs, means you are getting less and less EXP, and it is not fun for you.

A game is supposed to be fun for all the players, after all. So simply shrug, tell him that you are playing with the rules given, that you intend to keep playing with the rules that have been handed out, and that his rules are not allowing you to play the friendly buff-helper that you want to play, because it leaves you in the dust.

Also, for bonus points, do point out the item hand-out, and tell them that over the span of this entire adventure where your wizard has been roaming around, not a single item have been given to you; or have been dropped that have boosted you in any way. How he keeps dropping things for melee, but not a single caster-helping thing. You are a wizard. You are a tier 1 class, yes; but you are clearly not playing your wizard to abuse the rules. You are a perfectly valid party member, and should be treated like the rest of the team, if they want a happy, helpful wizard.

That is my two copper pieces, at least.

As the name implies, the spells Shadow______ are all illusions with of the shadow subschool, which deals with the manipulation of substance from the realm of shadows, not conjuration spells (in fact, their is a Shadow Conjuration spell).

[Thomasinx]

I know builds, I know everything I need to know for optimization. I need help with people :smalltongue:. Please respect this. This is the only game I can go to at the moment, and I like doing things in real life.

To be honest, the only way for the DM to realize something is wrong is either for you to fall woefully behind the rest of the party in XP (and likely die), or for you to just say 'screw it' and start out-damaging the damage dealers in the party. Specifically stop buffing. Prepare different spells. If they ask why you aren't buffing them, say that you didn't prepare enough buff spells for everyone, and are trying something new.

You could also use a lot of control spells. (I personally love the slide spells :D)

Polymorph is also an excellent subschool. I dont know how your DM handles baleful polymorph, but that's a fun way to say "whoops, there goes a bad guy".

Once you get 6th level spells, disintegrate.

Spell compendium also has some fun lower-level methods of doing damage with transmutation (Belker claws, flame whips, etc). Other schools have more damage...

IMO, your DM doesn't know what he's doing, and needs to find out for himself how wrong he is. You can't exactly tell him, he has to realize it on his own. That said, it doesn't hurt to make it easier for him to realize his folly by breaking his system.

[AdalKar]

I had a similar problem one time many ages ago...

After I realized that talking didn't do any good, I stopped buffing them or helping them with battlefield control, I just helped myself to live through stuff.

Didn't take many fights for the rest of the party to die while I, safed by my magics, walked away and looked for a new group ingame. :smallcool:

Suddenly the talking and explaining why those rules are stupid worked wonders :smallbiggrin:

Edit: It's sad but sometimes you got to be ruthless to get people to listen to what you say and not just to the sound you're making when your mouth opens... well as long as you don't get so ruthless that you actually hurt someone.

[Dairuga]

As the name implies, the spells Shadow______ are all illusions with of the shadow subschool, which deals with the manipulation of substance from the realm of shadows, not conjuration spells (in fact, their is a Shadow Conjuration spell).

Ooooooooooooooooooooooh, right. My mistake. There -is- a shadow conjuration, yes. And I have noooo idea where "Roll for Disbelief" comes from, if it wasn't illusion. I think I must have been half asleep at the time; Thanks for the clarification!

[Barstro]

It sounds like this DM has the same sort a view a friend of mine had; The DM controls the universe.

Most of the posts here gave the same advice I would have;
"Extra" damage should count towards you.

I would suggest, since you specifically do not, or cannot, simply say "it's my ball and I'm going home", ask the DM what he expects you to do to get your fair share of exp. If your logic is meeting a brick wall, perhaps you can work with his illogical views.

If the DM will offer no insight, I think your only option is to stop the buffs so that everyone can see what the DM's restrictions are causing. Even if you do not want to make yourself go full cheese (good for you), no longer giving the other people extra powers might help them see what you do for the team, and convince the DM to try something else.

[Darrin]

Buy a Rod of Chain and prepare 3 copies of Flesh to Ice. Medium range, fort save or loose (SR: Yes).


Use flesh to salt instead (Sandstorm). Medium range, untyped damage 1d6/2 CL (autohits, no save, 10d6 max), if damage > than half their current HP, Fort save or turn to salt. Even better, unlike flesh to stone/ice, you get to keep the target's equipment, and then sell off the salt as a trade good (one pound of salt = 5 GP).

Need more damage?

Kaupaer's Quickblast (online article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a), Sor/Wiz 1). Free action, or depending on how your DM adapts 3.0 -> 3.5 spells, a swift or immediate action. 5 cold/fire/electricity damage, autohits, save for half. Also great for lighting things on fire, such as the results of a web or incendiary slime spell.

Belker Claws (SC, Sor/Wiz 2): Touch attack deals 2d12 untyped damage, lingers for another 1-4 rounds of 2d12 damage, no save.

Scorpion Tail (Races of Eberron, Sor/Wiz 3): Free attack every round, 2d6 damage + Fort save vs. stun.

Trollshape (PHBII, Sor/Wiz 4): Pure awesomesauce.

Earth Reaver (SC, Sor/Wiz 5): 4d6 bludgeoning + 3d6 fire damage, no save. Unfortunately, the damage doesn't scale up, but it's particularly satisfying if you're tired of hearing "Evasion, no damage". Ok, fine, there is a Ref save, but it's vs. prone.

Lightning Leap (SC, Sor/Wiz 5): Teleport up to 60', and anything along that line takes 1d6/CL (15d6 max, Reflex half).

[prufock]

I never asked to be broken or should I ragequit >.>. :smallconfused: I'm a wizard, if i wanted to be broken I know a few hundred ways. I can divide by 0, introduce oblivion to absolution, and with 1 trick I know, cast vengeful gaze of god with choice metamagic ingame for 20 turns straight before opening an unclosable hole to the 9 hells. but... I won't abuse any of that madness.
I know builds, I know everything I need to know for optimization. I need help with people :smalltongue:. Please respect this. This is the only game I can go to at the moment, and I like doing things in real life.

Just to be clear, you are NOT looking for in-game solutions, then? You know ways to deal damage, you know the spells, you know the builds, you just don't want to? You'd like to remain a buffer, but want to get xp and items despite the house rule?

If talking to the DM about his weird (editorial: idiotic) rules doesn't work, and you can't/don't want to quit, I'm not sure we can help you. That's pretty much the extent of your options. I'd say you're screwed. You're going to fall behind the party in terms of both wealth and levels. There isn't any way you can "trick" the DM into giving you xp.

Maybe you can be a bit more clear about what it is, exactly, that you're asking advice about.

[imneuromancer]

if you want to get ALL of the experience points from now on, and screw the party:

ask the GM if you can switch out feats.

You will NEED:
1) Chain Spell (lesser rod would work)
2) Quicken Spell

It would be NICE TO HAVE:
1) Metamagic School Focus (Transmutation or Conjuration) to reduce the quicken cost.

Buy 2-3 Empowered Spell Shards from Magic Item Compendium, linked to the Spell Compendium spell "Ray of Clumsiness" (Transmutation). You will also need Kelgore's Grave Mist (PHB II, IIRC), Bands of Steel (Spell Compendium), web (core), and some type of spell that adds to spell resistance checks, just in case.

Tactic: Lay down an empowered, chained (if necessary) Ray of Clumsiness to suppress 9-16 points of DEX. Also lay down a Kelgore's Grave Mist to fatigue *OR* web to entangle *OR* Bands of steel to immobilize your opponent(s). Ray of clumsiness can't take a creature to less than 1 DEX, but fatigue, entangle, or immobilization can.

OK, now that you have one or more opponents completely immobilized, feel free to coup-de-grace them at will. You may need a secondary spell (either Kelgore or maybe even an illusion of Kelgore) to convince your party not to screw with your kills. Keep them out while you go in and steal all of their XP.

So now you get all of the XP, the party gets nothing, you advance way faster than them and THEY will do the complaining that hit point damage is not a fair way to calculate XP.

[Karoht]

Wait, your DM is wasting time during combat to track who did what damage separately?
Great, he can work out, every hit, how much damage was due to your buff. He can also work out how much damage was prevented with each attack that the enemy attempts and fails.
He can also average out how much damage a given enemy would have inflicted but didn't because you kept that enemy locked down.

Or, your DM can stop being a goofball and give you your XP.

[nedz]

I don't think that there is an in game solution. You are being taken for granted.

Now you could do something like Buff the Monsters, but that's probably not the best advice.

You could just miss a session, would the DM reduce the encounter difficulty ? This might make your point.

Or retire the character and play something which does direct damage ?

Finding another group is probably the best answer, these guys do not respect you.

[Darrin]

Finding another group is probably the best answer, these guys do not respect you.

Well, no, I don't think that's quite it, because back in high school (1st/2nd edition), my group had exactly the same mindset: we equated "damage = XP", and if you didn't contribute any damage to the battle, your character got cut out of the XP calculations. It was a binary determination: did you do damage? If yes, then you got an equal cut with the rest of the damage-dealing combatants. In theory, this was supposed to prevent the spellcasters from sitting at the back of the party and not contributing anything (not even buffs). In practice, the wizards cast magic missile once to make sure they got a cut of the XP, and then they "turtled up" whenever possible. If that wasn't stupid enough, we even took it a step further, and declared that if you were knocked down into the negatives when the battle was over, you hadn't "learned anything" and thus didn't get any XP, either (although you could get knocked down into negatives, healed back up, and so long as you were still conscious at the end of the battle, you got a cut of the XP).

Now, that's not necessarily the "wrong" way to play... if everyone agrees that's how they want it to work and everybody is having fun, knock yourself out. But if you're trying to play a buffer/support caster without any direct damage... ugh, nowadays I'd probably scree fleaming from such a game.

Actually, that's not true. I'd cast my magic missile and turtle up. If those idiot meatbags complained about it, I'd tell them where they could stick it. Then I'd probably load up on summons, and insist through extremely elaborate calculations about how my summoned creatures are contributing: "Flanking is a +2 attack bonus, so that's at least 10% of the XP, and I summoned four creatures, so really I should be getting 40%..." etc. etc.

At the very least, though, if I'm casting bull's strength on somebody who's getting XP for doing damage, then I want a cut of his XP for the attack/damage bonus I just gave him.

[Righteous Doggy]

So... I asked the dm earlier if we could change it, he said if everyone agreed. 100%. so I guess it depends on the group, who... hopefully aren't insane with greed. If they disagree, they can live the rest of the game out as a ugly butt possum :D.
@Darrin I think thats where he came from. I mean, it does make sense if the group is made of people who can do harm, and originally the group was much different(dread necromancer, warblade, cleric, ranger, barbar, druid) all of which are very capable of wrecking havoc. Now that I have a mage that gave up magic missile though... He also needs to recognize xp for out of combat though, and in another case he said i got none for killing a dragon becuase we burned it down to -9 and I performed a coup de grace. but... I can deal with evened xp. it'll be easier on him anyway.

[Karoht]

Or one could do what wizards do best.
End entire combats without assistance from the rest of the party, using a single spell.


What's that? I don't get XP because I didn't roll damage? But look how many things lay dead before you due to my involvement.

[Rift_Wolf]

So... I asked the dm earlier if we could change it, he said if everyone agreed. 100%. so I guess it depends on the group, who... hopefully aren't insane with greed. If they disagree, they can live the rest of the game out as a ugly butt possum :D.
@Darrin I think thats where he came from. I mean, it does make sense if the group is made of people who can do harm, and originally the group was much different(dread necromancer, warblade, cleric, ranger, barbar, druid) all of which are very capable of wrecking havoc. Now that I have a mage that gave up magic missile though... He also needs to recognize xp for out of combat though, and in another case he said i got none for killing a dragon becuase we burned it down to -9 and I performed a coup de grace. but... I can deal with evened xp. it'll be easier on him anyway.

So you fought a dragon to unconsciousness, but because you performed the most efficient method of finishing off the encounter, you didn't get xp? Did he want you to keep wailing on the corpse until it was at -20 or something?
A coup-de-grace isn't out-of-combat xp. If you finished the thing off, you should get xp for the damage you caused, at least. A minion could've got that dragon back up with a 2nd level spell and some luck.

One thing I'm curious about is: how is he measuring damage-to-xp? Is it by percentage of damage caused? As someone who suffers from slow calculating, this just appears as an unnecessary headache.

For what it's worth, I think you did the right thing talking to the DM out of game. Deliberately torpedoing a game with crazy wizard builds only leads to hurt feelings all round. It's a shame you're feeling under-appreciated; it's very easy to build selfish characters, I wish some of the games I've been in had more team players in them.

[Righteous Doggy]

Ahh, its a long story. I'll put it in a spoiler for you. in a nutshell, I did 50% of the damage, dazed it, and performed the finisher when he was at -9, stabilized.
So, we were walking along, and the dm rolls random encounter table. It was a silver dragon/sorcerer. Oh its cool, we're all good guys right? well our Barbarian actually wrote down Chaotic Stupid and the dragon questioned him, and he roleplayed insanity, as if he was so stupid he didn't have an alignment. the dragon didn't like this. so it attacks, and the ranger refuses to attack, and treis to tell the barbar not to hit back. meanwhile I buff up the barbar. I wait till the barbar gets out of stun, and... a UMD check later he gets nuked by 2 fire orbs from me and my fairy. the enlarge/hasted barbar smacks him to -9, and the ranger... stabilizes him. So, while they were bickering what to do with him, backstab! The barbar/druid take the corpse for armor/weapons, the ranger says she/he wants nothing to do with it, and I... got told I did nothing. gee, thanks guys.