Community Monster Class Voting Thread VIII: Everything burns.

[Mystic Muse]

GITP Community Monster Class Competition VIII: Everything Burns

Voting Thread

You will vote for two things on this thread, the monster class from last month's competion that you think is the best, and a theme for the next contest. The deadline for this voting thread will (tentatively) be the end of this month.

Rules

1) First, you will vote for one monster class entry that you think is the best.


Contest Entries

RedSpawn Arcaniss by TheGeckoKing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13025879&postcount=2)

Flame Draconian by Igneel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13041629&postcount=3)

Flame Archon by dspeyer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13044981&postcount=4)

Hellfire Engine by Frog Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13052521&postcount=5)

If you are unsure how to judge a monster class, following these guidelines:

Originality - The monster class should be unique. It should stand out from the rest, as a class.
Playability - The monster should allow for fluid, engaging, amusing and uninterrupted play at the table.
Balance - The monster should be balanced enough that it's not going to hold the group back or dominate everything without even trying, both overall and at a given stage in its development.
Elegance - The page which details the monster for the player should look good and be easy to understand.
Flavor - Last but certainly not least, we want to preserve the flavor and the atmosphere of the monster the monster class is based off of.

Feel free to explain your vote, even using the guidelines as an explanation if you want. You can vote for your own monster class creation if you truly feel that it is the best entry. In the case of a tie, I will vote on the disputed themes.

2) Second, you will vote for the theme of the upcoming contest. I am not offering any suggestions for a theme this month; I want to see what you guys can collaborate on. I suggest offering many ideas for a theme when you post, in order to get the ball rolling. that way, others can tell you which ideas they like from your list, and add to it.

Whichever theme has the most votes by the end of the month will be used for next month's contest. In the case of a tie, I will vote on the disputed themes. In the case of no votes, I'll go with a previously suggested theme.

[Hyudra]

Giving my vote to the Hellfire Engine. Formatting issues, but overall a decent class, and from the comments, some thought given to it playing a role.

Redspawn Arcaniss was good too, got off to a good start where you get sorc casting with other stuff, at a reasonable cost. Later levels, however, were kind of flat.

If anyone wants more detailed/brutal feedback on their work, let me know.

[radmelon]

Well, the hellfire engine and the redspawn arcanis are two of my favorite monsters, so this was a hard decision. In the end, however, I'm going to have to go with the engine. 'The engine turns' captures the whole 'infernal machine' feel quite well, in my opinion.

For the next contest, how about either Plants or 'Iconic' D&D monsters (Gelatinous cube, illithid, etc.)?

[Hyudra]

'Classic Critters' would work for the iconic monsters.

Plants are problematic because of the natural immunities & the ever-so-common mindlessness.

Then again, 'May Flowers' would be an amusing title.

[Igneel]

Hard decision once again, but I will refrain from voting for myself.

Hellfire Engine has lots of abilities with a variety of uses (not limited to combat such as increased speed and limited flight). The description of Engine Turns is really nice, and introduces an interesting new(-ish) mechanic that I don't think was used before.

Redspawn arcanis was done imho better yet similar to my Flame Draconian in that at least its later Sorcerer levels gain something from its Redspawn abilities like Nourishment, Affinity and Spell. I personally think that it met an adequate amount of power and balance in its 6 lvls as opposed to my 8.

Flame Archon is a interesting idea for a fire-themed Outsider in that its able to merge with a host along with a 'Woodwallk'-like spell to travel through fire which to my knowledge only exists in the form of a spell for Breath Weapons in printed material. Although it wasn't done in the format that the other entries were done it was still an interesting monster/class to consider.

I'm personally giving my vote to Redspawn Arcanis largely because despite the Engine's various abilities I'm not so keen on things such as being able to bypass Fire Resistance/Immunity at level 5 with no penalty (such as a raised Spell level like Searing Spell) via Hellfire, along with a expensive method of reviving deters early level play over players wanting to play this at least in mid-high level play to at least insure they can be brought back. At least the Redspawn has to wait till 15th level to fully bypass Immunity, but then this is my opinion.

Kinda wanting to do something like Iconic monsters, but rather then ones that people can easily recognize how about ones from older editions that are very unusual such as from here (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm) and here (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article95.htm). In short, how about 'Weird and Unusual?'

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think I would like to know what people thought about my class since the only other two voters thus far don't even address it. Just call it 'me trying to learn' so that I can do better.

[TheGeckoKing]

Vote for the Hellfire Engine. Wouldn't of killed it to have Full BaB, but otherwise it's pretty cool - has a variety of options, and always something to look forward to next level.

And Hyudra, I totally agree that by about 3rd level, I couldn't think of options to add. I'm confidant that at each level the Arcaniss gains something useful, but until Inferno Spell, it's not really active in what it gains (and even then...). Options I thought of either focused a bit too much on obscure sources (those spells that Dragonblooded got an extra benefit from), or bordered on my usual deranged musings.

To give an eye-over on your class Igneel, my main gripe is the glut of per day abilities. There's lots of them, and once they're all used up you've lost a lot of your tricks. On top of that, my other main gripe is the pitfall I fell into - there's nothing that really jumps out. To make a quick comparison, the Hellfire Engine has a ton of active abilities that a player's going to look forward to, and abilities that recharge over time in a quick fashion.
However, I will say that you did make a class that IS well-built if not glitzy, and would be certainly useful in the role of a melee brawler. :smallsmile:

EDIT: My vote for the next theme would be a Template based competition. Extreme Monsters - Template Edition!

[Hyudra]

Edit: Now that I think about it, I think I would like to know what people thought about my class since the only other two voters thus far don't even address it. Just call it 'me trying to learn' so that I can do better.

See this bit in the first post?

Originality - The monster class should be unique. It should stand out from the rest, as a class.
Playability - The monster should allow for fluid, engaging, amusing and uninterrupted play at the table.
Balance - The monster should be balanced enough that it's not going to hold the group back or dominate everything without even trying, both overall and at a given stage in its development.
Elegance - The page which details the monster for the player should look good and be easy to understand.
Flavor - Last but certainly not least, we want to preserve the flavor and the atmosphere of the monster the monster class is based off of.
?

If I were to take off major marks for the Flame Draconian, it would be in the Originality department, with a few marks off in playability and elegance. What do I mean by this?

Originality: Almost none of the abilities are unique to the class, for one thing. Rage, breath weapon, uncanny dodge, fireball, flight, more fireballs, spell resistance... I get the distinct impression that I could more or less put this class together using some creative multiclassing and itemization for a given PC.

The exception? Death Throes, which poses some Playability issues in that you have to die to get a use out of it, and it's going to be pretty rare that you can use it and not wipe out your party. Remember that monster classes are primarily for players, to be used as PCs.

Elegance? It's minor, I can hardly fault you for it, but it's fairly clear english isn't your first language. Some sentences read awkwardly ("Being born not as a dragon should be, but rather as a magical process of turning one dragon egg into a completely different creature has rendered your death to have a violent outcome.") - I wouldn't take off marks for this, but there's also an ambiguity in that your stat boosts are mixed up/scattered. You have one +2 to Str at 1st level (Flame Draconian Body) and then another entry for Str/Con boosts starting at 4th.

The final point, and this is where the Hellfire Engine (and to a lesser extent, Redspawn Arcaniss) stood out - is that a class should feel like a class, with a defined role. The Flame Draconian has rage & melee stats for some damage in melee, flame breath on occasion and then fireballs beyond that - beyond a general 'deals damage' explanation, it doesn't really convey a solid idea of how it would play at the table, there's no real synergy between the independent aspects of the class, and it would be hard to say what class you'd go into after you were done.

All that said, it isn't bad. I can come across really harsh, and your work doesn't deserve harsh. It's decent. Rather good for a new-ish monster classer. It just doesn't scream 'excellent' or make me wonder what it would bring to the gaming table in terms of new experiences and interactions in/out of combat. The hellfire engine does, and that's why it got my vote.

[Mystic Muse]

Voting is Closed

The Winner is Hellfire Engine by Frog Dragon

Frog Dragon, you get to choose one Monster CR 12 or less for me to try and create.

I should mention, I don't feel I'll be able to offer this prize for any more contests, and I need to stop handling these contests. I'll leave it up to whoever wants to run next month's to determine the theme and prize.