(PF) Shadow Paladin (Dark Knight?)

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

an interesting idea i had recently, I would love some feedback on it.

Paladin (sacred Servant) 5/ Shadowdancer 7

STR 13
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 14

Domain: Darkness (sacred Servant)

1 Finesse
1 Dodge
3 Mobility
5 Combat Reflexes
7 Spring Attack
9 Unsanctioned Knowledge
11 Toughness

Rogue Talents
3 (L8) Fast Stealth
6 (L11) Hard to Fool

Basically, I wouldnt say anything at the game table. I would limit myself to ONE in game sentence per session. I would dress it black armor, (mithril breastplate when I can afford it, due to Shadowdancer light armor limitations with some class abilities) be all dark and gloomy, and let no one know I was a Paladin... until I used Smite Evil or some other such thing.

I would also consider only taking 4 levels of Shadowdancer, and fill out Paladin until level 8.

Seems like it would sort of be a Batman-esque build. Im not trying overly hard to optimize, but I would be happy to get any tips that may improve it.

thanks in advance.

[grarrrg]

an interesting idea i had recently, I would love some feedback on it.

Oh, YOU had an interesting idea (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13055097), did you?

Please see Linked thread for ideas.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Haha, awesome. went about it different ways, but yes. well, I cede the credit to you sir, you had it first.

[grarrrg]

Haha, awesome. went about it different ways, but yes. well, I cede the credit to you sir, you had it first.

It happens.

Couple things.
I would vote against Sacred Servant, because your Divine Bond
"When called, the spirit causes the sacred servant’s holy symbol to shed light like a torch."
And the Darkness Domain, while flavorful, doesn't actually help too much.

Also, how in the ever loving Abyss does the Darkness Domain NOT give "Darkness" as a bonus spell?? (yes, yes, it has Deeper Darkness, but that's not the point).

I'd suggest picking a different archetype.


And with Unsanctioned Knowledge, Darkness is still a 2nd level spell, so you'd need Paladin 7 w/14 CHA to cast it, and as mentioned in the linked thread, Deeper Darkness is a 3rd level spell, the earliest would be Paladin 10 w/16 CHA. You have "0" 3rd level slots at 10, so you'd need the Bonus slot.

So at a minimum, the build should be Paladin 7/Shadowdancer 3
Shadowdancer 3 is the minimum to get a Shadow.
For added fun take Skill Focus (Knowledge: Any), and Eldritch Heritage taking Arcane Bloodline and pick up a Familiar.
Now you'll have TWO little friends that have your Bab and 1/2hp!


Edit: You need 13 Int for Unsanctioned Knowledge

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

one thing i noticed was that the Holy Symbol doesnt work if handed off to another person... HOWEVER, by RAW it works if you drop it... and with a source of light, shadows can be created where there were none before. I was considering throwing the "torch" holy Symbol, and then using the resulting shadows to HiPS around, in an otherwise shadowless environ.

HOWEVER, I agree. looking at Sacred Servant again, i notice the Smite Evil is actually DELAYED, where as in my first reading i thought it advanced. straight Paladin IS probably a better bet, as the weapon bond is better anyway.

I also considered TWF (as I see you in your post did) However, I cant see the feats working out until at least level 15. Shadowdancer is a bit feat intensive. I suppose i could use one of the rogue talents on a feat. then again, it doesnt mesh well with Spring Attack and HiPS...

I like the juxtaposition of light and darkness that this character brings. I missed the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat, props to you for noticing it. I think the flavor just made Paladins a bit better in my book.

I still cant decide what finesse weapon to use though. Your advice has been helpful, keep it coming if you got any left!

[deuxhero]

Shadowdancer in PF is useless for anyone with 15 charisma (read:Paladins). All their abilities worth bothering with (now that Shadow Companion was nerfed from 3.5) can be found in the Eldritch Heritage: Shadow (Or Umbral if Wild Blooded can be used with EH. Sean K Reynolds implies it can (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9o7y).) line for the same number of feats as qualifying.

It gives the teleport ability and HIPS.

[grarrrg]

Shadowdancer in PF is useless for anyone with 15 charisma (read:Paladins). All their abilities worth bothering with (now that Shadow Companion was nerfed from 3.5) can be found in the Eldritch Heritage: Shadow (Or Umbral if Wild Blooded can be used with EH. Sean K Reynolds implies it can (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9o7y).) line for the same number of feats as qualifying.

It gives the teleport ability and HIPS.

I must disagree.
Shadowdancer may be a weaker PrC, but it still has useful features.
Feat Reqs: Combat Reflexes is always good so you might have it anyway, and while Dodge/Mobility are less ideal, they are necessary reqs for some pretty good feats. So nothing wasted here.
Skill Reqs: VERY minor as far as PrC reqs go. Easy entry.

It is a very Rogue-Like class, but straight Rogue entry is VERY sub-par, due to generally weakened/duplicated abilities. Having Uncanny Dodge x2 and Imp. Uncanny x2 is extremely redundant.
BUT if you enter with 'not-rogue', it's a fairly easy way to gain the Uncanny's, and Evasion, and even Improved Evasion.

Darkvision is quite handy if you picked a Race without vision-enhancement *cough* human *cough* (note: you'd have to take Imp. Eldritch Heritage a 2nd time to get Darkvision from Bloodline).

The Shadow-port abilities of the two are very different.
Bloodline requires an Ally for ANY switching, can only be done within 60ft, and can only be done 1/day (2/day at 17, 3/day at 20, bloodline level is -2 unless Greater Eldritch heritage was taken)
Shadowdancer can teleport 40ft. (max 320ft. at Shadowdancer 10), does not require an ally, and can be broken up into 10ft. increments.

Your Shadow is, basically, a Familiar.


Granted, you can find all/most of the above abilities in different classes/feats/etc... but that's true of most abilities.
Is Shadowdancer a sub-par PrC? Maybe.
Is Shadowdancer "replaced by 3 bloodline feats", not quite.