Hammer/Chill Touch, Holding the Charge on Touch Attacks (3.5 Psionics)

[ZardozSpeaks]

Okay, here's my question.

Normally, a touch attack spell/power can be held and later discharged. If another spell/power is cast/manifested the previous touch attack spell/power is dispelled.

What about an augmented Hammer or Chill Touch?

If Hammer is augmented, its duration changes to round per point of augmentation. Lets say the Psychic Warrior manifests Hammer so it lasts 3 rounds. The next round, the Psychic Warrior charges and manifest Psionics Lions Pounce. Does this discharge the Hammer? I'm tempted to say yes by RAW, but also no because the Psychic Warrior isn't actually holding back a charge, but under an ongoing effect.

Chill Touch is similar, but different. It grants multiple touches. Can a Wizard cast Chill Touch and then next round cast Vampiric Touch and touch an creature for the effects of Vampiric Touch+ Chill Touch?

From the SRD, the wording for spells is identical.

Touch Powers and Holding the Charge

In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch power on the round you manifest it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the power) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything with your hand while holding a charge, the power discharges. If you manifest another power, the touch power dissipates.

Some touch powers allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the power. You can’t hold the charge of such a power; you must touch all the targets of the power in the same round that you finish manifesting the power. You can touch one friend (or yourself) as a standard action or as many as six friends as a full round action.

[Taelas]

In neither of those situations do you hold the charge. Augmented Hammer has a duration, so it ends when the duration does (depending on the exact effect; I am not familiar with many powers), and chill touch has a specific number of uses that you gain the moment you cast the spell.

You aren't holding the charge.

[Doxkid]

I Believe you hold the charge for chilling touch, which grants you the ability to pump the change at an opponent each time you make a touch attack until you have used -caster level- attack.



Touch Spells and Holding the Charge
In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41184
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/299816-chill-touch-question.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/137879-how-does-chill-touch-work-last.html
http://www.gamesforum.ca/showthread.php?t=5369

Typically, the final decision is:

You hold the charge for chilling touch until you discharge it, dismiss it, or cast another spell. A patient caster can wait 5 thousand years, keeping his hands away from anything nearby, only to suddenly slap someone and use a charge of the spell. That slap was a melee touch attack. If his friend walked up and shook his hand, there would be no touch attack and the friend would get blasted. The caster can then go back to waiting apochs, only to suddenly step forward and slap someone else, using another charge of the spell. So on, until all charges have been used.

You apply it to all melee touch attacks and it makes you count as armed, allowing you to make melee touch attacks as an attack action. You then use your BAB, haste, TWF, blah blah to determine how many attacks you get per round. Should you wish, you may make a melee touch attack in place of a normal attack, at an exchange rate of 1 to 1. A tricked out warrior with 50 attacks per round could make 50 melee touch attacks per round, assuming he has enough spell charges to do so.

[Taelas]

I would still argue chill touch does not hold the charge by default. If you miss, then yes, you are holding a charge, and casting a spell dismisses the charge you are holding, but otherwise, you get the number of charges the spell specifies.

[Rubik]

Also, do note that the target of the Hammer power is NOT the one that is dealt damage. It's the one that gets the ability to make the touch attacks.

People always get that part wrong.

[ZardozSpeaks]

Also, do note that the target of the Hammer power is NOT the one that is dealt damage. It's the one that gets the ability to make the touch attacks.

People always get that part wrong.

INTRIGUING. I hadn't even realized this. Hammer is a touch spell, but its not a touch attack! This explains the swift action manifesting, as you'd still need to take at least a standard action attack (maybe a touch, maybe not). I had thought it a redundant feature, since touch attack spells grant a free touch. Now I see this more clearly.

So, to hold the charge on Hammer would mean you'd be waiting to select a target to buff, not attack. If you did hold the charge on Hammer, and then decided to manifest another power (say Psionic's Lion Charge like my earlier example, you would indeed lose the held Hammer charge.

Now what about Chill Touch? When you cast Chill Touch you gain a free touch, which you may immediately make against an opponent. You could hold the charge to further turns. Now, if you have a high caster level and multiple touch attacks, you could use one the turn you cast (maybe more if AOOs or something else). If you cast a spell your next turn, would you lose the remaining Chill Touches, are you effectively "Holding the Charge"? I'm leaning to a yes on this.

[Taelas]

It is an odd spell, and certainly not very clear. By RAW, I could see it going either way, really. I am unaware of any other touch spells which grant multiple touch attacks. I would still argue that you would only be holding the charge after making an attack that missed for the charges after the first (which would be held immediately assuming they couldn't make a touch attack for whatever reason).