Swiftblade Build, Help Desired

[Roguenewb]

Soooo...here's my build for a swiftblade I'm going to be playing from level 1-to-20. Flavorwise, this guy is an aristocrat who's been taught the blade, and learned to mix spell and blade to master a rare style of dueling (represented by Swiftblade). I'm doing the Illithid Bloodline/Apprentice thing just so that I can be more playable at the low levels. I also have special permission to take Weapon Finesse with my level 1 flaw, and not get the effect till level 2. Without a further ado, feedback and aid desired:

Azath Conti of House Graysun
Human

STR: 8
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

Battle Sorcerer 1
Expeditious Dodge
Human: Apprentice (Sorcerer)
Bonus: Weapon Focus (Finesse)
Flaw: Illithid Bloodline
Flaw: Weapon Finesse
Spells: 0: Daze, Acid Splash, Detect Magic
1: Hypnotism, Shield, Orb of Acid Lesser,
Battle Sorcerer 2
Spells: 0: Read Magic
1: Shield, Orb of Acid Lesser, Charm Person
Battle Sorcerer 3
Mobility
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement
Battle Sorcerer 4
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike
Battle Sorcerer 5
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike
Battle Sorcerer 6
Arcane Strike
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis
Swiftblade 1

Swiftblade 2
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missile
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis
Swiftblade 3
Combat Casting
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missile
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis
Spells 4: Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune
Swiftblade 4

Swiftblade 5
Combat Casting
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missilety
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil, Mirror Image
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis, Suggestion
Spells 4: Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune
Swiftblade 6
Battle Caster
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missilety
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil, Mirror Image
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis, Suggestion
Spells 4: Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Celerity
Spells 5: Arcane Fusion, Draconic Might
Swiftblade 7

Swiftblade 8
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missile
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis, Suggestion, Hesitate
Spells 4: Celerity, Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune
Spells 5: Arcane Fusion, Draconic Might
Swiftblade 9
Empower Spell
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missile
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis, Suggestion, Hesitate
Spells 4: Celerity, Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune
Spells 5: Arcane Fusion, Draconic Might
Spells 6: Superior Resistance, Globe of Invulnerability
Swiftblade 10

Abjurant Champion 1
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missile
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis, Suggestion, Hesitate
Spells 4: Celerity, Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Enervation
Spells 5: Arcane Fusion, Draconic Might, Swift Etherealness
Spells 6: Superior Resistance, Globe of Invulnerability

Abjurant Champion 2
Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missile
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis, Suggestion, Hesitate
Spells 4: Celerity, Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune
Spells 5: Arcane Fusion, Draconic Might, Swift Etherealness
Spells 6: Superior Resistance, Globe of Invulnerability
Spells 7: Arcane Spell Surge, Spell Matrix
Abjurant Champion 3
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missile
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis, Suggestion, Hesitate
Spells 4: Celerity, Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune
Spells 5: Arcane Fusion, Draconic Might, Swift Etherealmess, Channeled Lifetheft
Spells 6: Superior Resistance, Globe of Invulnerability, Contingency
Spells 7: Arcane Spell Surge, Spell Matrix
Abjurant Champion 4
Spells 1: Shield, Orb of Acid, Charm Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Blade of Blood, Magic Missile
Spells 2: Bladeweave, Wraithstrike, Arcane Turmoil, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray
Spells 3: Haste, Energy Aegis, Suggestion, Hesitate
Spells 4: Celerity, Orb of Acid, Ruin Delver's Fortune
Spells 5: Arcane Fusion, Draconic Might, Swift Etherealmess, Channeled Lifetheft
Spells 6: Superior Resistance, Globe of Invulnerability, Contingency
Spells 7: Arcane Spell Surge, Spell Matrix
Spells 8: Greater Arcane Fusion, Wrathful Castigation

[eggs]

With that low of strength, you aren't going to help anybody by walking into melee, or throwing resources at that strategy.

Battle Sorcerer isn't very useful if it isn't saving caster levels. I'd understand if the point were a character built to stand in melee at very low levels, but the strength issue would need to be dealt with first.

Illithid Bloodline is rather weak.

[Spuddles]

With wraithstrike and draconic might, he'll do just fine in melee.

[Roguenewb]

That was my belief as well. Illithid Bloodline is being paired with Apprentice to swap them out turbo-style so I can basically just add 9 spells to spells known.

[Elric VIII]

If you use Mother Cyst(BoVD), instead of Illithid Bloodline, you get 10 spells.

So, you've got a decent Dex score. You want to capitalize on that.

I notice that you haven't traded away your familiar. I recommend taking a Hummingbird for +4 initiative, or if you don't like that, there's the Elemental Familiar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a) spell. Air elemental gets you +2 initiative. I recommend just getting a scroll of this, since it's an instantaneous spell, thus not subject to dispels.

Shadow Blade would also be useful for you, but it's a rather large feat investment on a build that already has a 3-feat penalty (dodge, mobility, and combat casting).


I recall that there exists, somewhere, a basket-hilted sword. It's basically a longsword that can use the hilt to bash opponents. This is important, because it makes it count as a bludgeoning weapon, and thus a target for [Greater] Mighty Wallop (RotD, I think). Applying the Feycraft Template (DMG II) will make it a light weapon and allow Weapon Finesse to work with it.

A dip into Sacred Exorcist (CD) will get you Turn Undead to power Travel Devotion (CC). Pair this with Slippers of Battledancing (DMG II) to get +Cha to attack and damage.

As for spells:
Polymorph into humanoid (not the type, the shape) forms to get combat bonuses and keep your equipment functional.

Heart of X spells (CM) give you survivability and long term buffing (hour/level).

Bite of the Werebeast spells (SpC) are also great buffs.

Ferocity of Sanguine Rage (DrM) will greatly boost your damage potential.*

Primal X (DrM) gives you great bonuses, including +5 initiative, +10 speed, and uncanny dodge for 24 hours.*

*These spells get a bonus if cast by a dragonblood character. Silverbrow human gives up the bonus skill points for the drgaonblood type.

[Roguenewb]

If you use Mother Cyst(BoVD), instead of Illithid Bloodline, you get 10 spells.

So, you've got a decent Dex score. You want to capitalize on that.

I notice that you haven't traded away your familiar. I recommend taking a Hummingbird for +4 initiative, or if you don't like that, there's the Elemental Familiar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a) spell. Air elemental gets you +2 initiative. I recommend just getting a scroll of this, since it's an instantaneous spell, thus not subject to dispels.

Shadow Blade would also be useful for you, but it's a rather large feat investment on a build that already has a 3-feat penalty (dodge, mobility, and combat casting).


I recall that there exists, somewhere, a basket-hilted sword. It's basically a longsword that can use the hilt to bash opponents. This is important, because it makes it count as a bludgeoning weapon, and thus a target for [Greater] Mighty Wallop (RotD, I think). Applying the Feycraft Template (DMG II) will make it a light weapon and allow Weapon Finesse to work with it.

A dip into Sacred Exorcist (CD) will get you Turn Undead to power Travel Devotion (CC). Pair this with Slippers of Battledancing (DMG II) to get +Cha to attack and damage.

As for spells:
Polymorph into humanoid (not the type, the shape) forms to get combat bonuses and keep your equipment functional.

Heart of X spells (CM) give you survivability and long term buffing (hour/level).

Bite of the Werebeast spells (SpC) are also great buffs.

Ferocity of Sanguine Rage (DrM) will greatly boost your damage potential.*

Primal X (DrM) gives you great bonuses, including +5 initiative, +10 speed, and uncanny dodge for 24 hours.*

*These spells get a bonus if cast by a dragonblood character. Silverbrow human gives up the bonus skill points for the drgaonblood type.

Those are some solid ideas. I was planning on trading my familiar for Divine Companion for healing and shielding. Is BoVD mother cyst different from Libris Mortis Mother Cyst?

[eggs]

With wraithstrike and draconic might, he'll do just fine in melee.
3.5-1 damage is nothing, even if Wraithstrike is making attacks hit.
And Power Attack is off the table, so wraithstrike doesn't mean gobs of free damage.
Polymorph could make it work, but it's not on the spell list.

This build looks like it's designed to try to wade into melee at level 1-4.
At level 3, it will be attacking at +7 for 2.5 damage.
I'm not looking it up, but as a rule of thumb, average monster AC hangs around 15+.75*CR, so this is going to be going up against AC 17.
That means ~1.37 damage per round. For comparison, that same character plinking with a light crossbow would deal ~2.25 damage per round, wouldn't have to stand in a place where its face would be eaten off, and wouldn't waste feats in finesse weapons.

It doesn't scale well either. At level 12 with a +5 weapon, Draconic Might and Haste already up, it would be in the ballpark of 17 damage per attack, with no apparent means of movement+full attacks. That's the situation that the Fighter is in around level 6, with less gear and buffing time.

Arcane Strike could crank the damage up, but that's only effective with seriously degenerate nova-narcolepsy play (and the free time for plenty of 23.5 hour naps). Likewise, Bladeweave can be useful at low levels, but its DC scales poorly.

Basically, this is suffering from Turtle syndrome. Between Swiftblade and just being a Sorcerer, defenses look strong, but it's really lacking in offensive power.

I understand why a bloodline is being used, but why Illithid? It's a weak choice, and with this many offensive spell options, the low-level attack spells would do well to be churned out for better-scaling powers. Its fluff doesn't make sense, so I'm guessing that's not the draw.

[Spuddles]

What, no power attack? Yeah you're right eggs, no melee damage from this gish.

[Elric VIII]

Those are some solid ideas. I was planning on trading my familiar for Divine Companion for healing and shielding. Is BoVD mother cyst different from Libris Mortis Mother Cyst?

Early morning posting. I did mean the one from LM.

[Roguenewb]

So, I should swap enough INT to STR to get power attack? Are there other ways to boost the damage?

Illithid bloodline was just the random bloodline that seemed most interesting, I'm probably swapping it for Mother Cyst, cause 10>9.

[Fable Wright]

So, I should swap enough INT to STR to get power attack? Are there other ways to boost the damage?

Illithid bloodline was just the random bloodline that seemed most interesting, I'm probably swapping it for Mother Cyst, cause 10>9.

You would be able to swap Int and Str, but personally I'm a fan of taking 2 points out of Dex to get Str up to 14. I just like more rounded characters, and think the bonus from Int should be split with Wis just so that your will saves don't suck terribly. For your build, definitely take the ACF from Complete Champion that trades your familiar for a spirit that can convert stored spell slots into healing and high AC for several rounds. Oh, and a bit of advice: Take Antimagic Field. All of your abilities are (Ex), and Fortified Hustle makes your Haste (Ex) as well. This more or less allows you to timestop, get right up close to enemy casters, antimagic field, and then chop them down as their defenses are now rendered worthless. Also, I strongly advise getting Heart of Earth. While it's usually a wizard spell, the material component-less swift action Stoneskin makes it really something to consider on the character. Finally, Wings of Cover. It's the closest Sorcerers have to an Abrupt Jaunt, and it is insane in any build. Karmic Aura is also rather nice, and is probably going to show up more in combat than Magic Missile at the high levels. Even if people make their saves most of the time, they have to roll a 1 eventually... and rolling several saves per round makes that much more likely.

[herrhauptmann]

Ouch:
How do you have 5 feats at level 1? Does battle sorc grant a feat?

Ditch weapon focus unless it's a prereq. If it's a prereq, it might not be worth it.

Read the X stat to Y bonus thread. If you're going to keep your stats like that, you need ways to add cha or int or dex to your damage. Hemorrhaging spells to deal d6 per spell level helps, a little. But still doesn't keep up with power attack.

Simplify that list.
--When you list your spells, just show us what's changed/new

--Visually break that list up a bit. Use bullet points or something. Right now it's just a giant wall of text.

How did you get combat casting at swiftblade 5? I'm pretty sure that's 11th level in your build.

[Snowbluff]

I would suggest Wizard if you're going Swiftblade, and Focus Specializing, since you're only casting a few types of spells. The BaB Hurts, but there is an option for taking fighter feats instead of the Wizard ones and Scribe Scroll.

Fluff-wise, you were a rich kid and your parents paid for your expensive wizarding training with a private tutor.

[Fable Wright]

Ouch:
How do you have 5 feats at level 1? Does battle sorc grant a feat?

Ditch weapon focus unless it's a prereq. If it's a prereq, it might not be worth it.



Well, Battle Sorcerer granted Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, so...

[herrhauptmann]

Well, Battle Sorcerer granted Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, so...

Gotchya.
2 3 4 5

[Elric VIII]

If Power Attack is on the table, then your combat ability greatly increases. In addition to the PA/Wraithstrike goodness, Sacred Exorcist's TU will grant you access to Divine Might (CW version), which adds Cha to all damage for the entire round.

Sadly, on a feat-starved build, Str is a much better stat than Dex.

[Spuddles]

I would lower dex, raise strength, and swap weapon finesse for power attack. Use two hands on a weapon. Power attack + wraithstrike is a stupendous way to get easy damage out on most creatures.

[Averis Vol]

Well, Battle Sorcerer granted Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, so...

sorry, but battle sorcerer only gives weapon proficiency, stalwart from CM grants weapon proficiency AND focus for one martial weapon, plus +2 hp per sorcerer level. i'm using a similar build right now actually, its only level 10 (and i have no clue where to go after swiftblade) but it's Silverbrow Human Stalwart battle sorcerer 6/swiftblade 4. take proficiency with a rapier, get focus for free and throw on colliding for an easy 5 damage along with stunning burst from DMG II to make use of your (presumably) awesome charisma.

you do really only need 13 strength for PA. but this part seems covered already.

for spells grease works good to get your power attack off, mirror image to not get hit, steeldance is nice for extra attacks and of course wraithstrike for its awesome.

i rambled quite a bit so i hope you find something helpful in there.

EDIT: forgot to mention, if you want to trade away your familiar metamagic specialist from DMG II is nice.

[Roguenewb]

The weapon focus is a carry over from when this guy was a stalwart sorcerer, oops.

[Fable Wright]

Wait, you're not going Stalwart Battle Sorcerer? When you take both variants, you lose nothing from Stalwart Sorcerer, and have essentially a d12 for hit points during your sorcerer levels (by average).

[Averis Vol]

ahh, alright. and yea, theres no reason not to go stalwart. so you lose an extra spell per level, big whoop.

[Fable Wright]

ahh, alright. and yea, theres no reason not to go stalwart. so you lose an extra spell per level, big whoop.

Look closer. You lose an extra spell known of the highest level, to a minimum of 1... which, with Battle Sorcerer, translates into no actual penalty, as it already took away that level's spell. Twelve free hit points and two more feats that could potentially be shuffled away are nothing to scoff at, especially when they're free.

[Averis Vol]

Look closer. You lose an extra spell known of the highest level, to a minimum of 1... which, with Battle Sorcerer, translates into no actual penalty, as it already took away that level's spell. Twelve free hit points and two more feats that could potentially be shuffled away are nothing to scoff at, especially when they're free.

my apologies, your right, my caster knowledge is a bit scarce.

[Roguenewb]

Look closer. You lose an extra spell known of the highest level, to a minimum of 1... which, with Battle Sorcerer, translates into no actual penalty, as it already took away that level's spell. Twelve free hit points and two more feats that could potentially be shuffled away are nothing to scoff at, especially when they're free.

Oh hell, that *is* true.... back on the stalwart sorcerer bandwagon! Just a note: this character is going to be playing in a campaign with 2 teir 4s and a tier 3, so I don't think I'm gonna DCFS or oytugh hole or stuff that crazy.