Adding Templates Question

[Monodominant]

Howdy.

So I am planning to play a Water Orc.

I read somewhere that the Water Orc is nicely augmented by Dragonborn and I have no objections to it... some extra cool thingies in order to lose basically nothing...

So if I make my Water Orc into a Dragonborn what of the stuff he has stays and what goes?

Do I retain the fire weakness? Do I retain light sensitivity?

And now comes another questions...

How about if I add another template?

Can I be a DragonBorn Orc - Shadow Creature? And with which order do I add the templates?

Obviously I would like to be a Water Orc turned Dragonborn and THEN turned Shadow Creature so as not to lose the Shadow Creature cool stuff.

PS> I am aware of the LA+2 of Shadow Creature but the DM is giving a free LA +1 so I am only losing a level for a host of abilities.

[Spuddles]

You can find Dragonborn in Races of the Dragon.

As Dragonborn is an acquired template, you add it after your inherited templates (such as Draconic of Feral), but may add it in any order with other acquired templates (such as Dragonspawn or Mineral Warrior), so long as a prior template does not invalidate applying the next one.

And I'm not sure a dragon blooded creature can become Dragonborn.

[Duke of URL]

In general, templates can be applied in any order, as long as everything is legal in the process. It would make sense that inherited templates should apply before acquired templates, but as far as I know, there's no RAW that requires that.

The important thing to note when stacking templates (other than testing the patience of your DM) is that many templates change the base creature type; coupled with the fact that most templates may only be applied to specific creature types this means that it is possible that a specific sequence of templates may not work, because of how you've changed type due to a previous template.

[Spuddles]

In general, templates can be applied in any order, as long as everything is legal in the process. It would make sense that inherited templates should apply before acquired templates, but as far as I know, there's no RAW that requires that.

The important thing to note when stacking templates (other than testing the patience of your DM) is that many templates change the base creature type; coupled with the fact that most templates may only be applied to specific creature types this means that it is possible that a specific sequence of templates may not work, because of how you've changed type due to a previous template.

Acquired And Inherited Templates

Some templates can be added to creatures anytime. Templates such as these are referred to as acquired templates, indicating that the creature did not always have the attributes of the template.

Other templates, known as inherited templates, are part of a creature from the beginning of its existence. Creatures are born with these templates.

It’s possible for a certain kind of template to be of either type.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#acquiredAndInheritedTemplate s

[Duke of URL]

Oh, there's no doubt inherited templates have to apply before the start of play and that you can pick up acquired templates at any time before play or during it. A limited number of templates also have requirements that mean that they must apply after inherited templates because the creature has to have been born/created already to meet the requirements.

But other than those special cases, there's nothing saying I can't apply an acquired template before an inherited one, as long as I'm applying them all at "birth".

[Monodominant]

My question remains...

I have races of dragon and I read the 'transfortmation' box but I am still unsure if when my Water Orc becomes Dragonborn if he loses the weaknesses of the water part of his heritage (though I see that he maintains the swim speed for example).

Furthermore I am unsure if the Shadow Creature (from LoM) is inherited or acquired...

[Duke of URL]

Okay, onto the specific questions...

A dragonborn loses all racial traits not specifically excepted. Your water orc would retain his ability adjustments, movement speeds, size, languages, feats, skills, and favored class (barbarian) [plus gain paladin as an additional favored class].

It would lose darkvision, light sensitivity, and the bonuses/penalties when dealing with creatures with the fire subtype. An argument can be made that it would also lose the racial +8 to swim, but I disagree, since that's part of having a swim speed, which you retain.

Plus it gains the dragonborn abilities. (Non-open content, so not detailed here.) Your type is now Humanoid (orc, dragonblood).

The Shadow Creature template does not specify whether it is inherited or acquired, so you may apply it either way. As you are a corporeal humanoid, you qualify. Your gain the extraplanar subtype whenever you are not on the plane of shadow.

[VGLordR2]

You will keep the Swim Speed, the ability modifiers, the size, the languages, the racial hit dice, and the type. Everything else will be removed by the Dragonborn template.

[Debihuman]

First, there are no weaknesses associated with the simple Water Subtype. Note that the Water Subtype is different from the Aquatic Subtype and it is also different from the Element Racial Variant. Which version of "water orc" are you using?

In any case, you apply all your modifiers as a Water Orc and then you have the pleasure of updating those numbers again when you add the Dragonborn template. You would keep your swim speed but you would lose all other racial traits. So yes, you lose the orc's light sensitivity since that is a racial trait.

Debby