Making a mercenary character for a new player

[Fostire]

Hello everyone.

A couple of new players have recently joined our table and I've been left in charge of helping one of them make her character for our new campaign. We'll be starting at level 1 and I'm not sure what to do.

She is a complete newbie having never played DnD or anything like it so I want to make sure that the character is simple enough that she doesn't get overwhelmed yet still have enough options that she can have fun playing it.

She's has recently started reading A Song of Ice and Fire after getting completely hooked on the Game of Thrones tv show and she says she wants to play a character based on Bronn.

I don't know much about the character, all I know is that he's some sort of mercenary melee type. My first thought was to make a bastard sword fighter since it's simple and seems to fit the character's fighting style but then I remembered that fighters suck without some heavy optimization and optimization usually means making a complicated character which is what I'm trying to avoid.

A friend suggested Warblade and I've also seen warblade suggested around here as a good newbie option but I'm not sure. The choice of maneuvers seems like it might be a bit overwhelming for a new player, much like choosing spells for a caster.

What do you guys think? Is warblade good for a newbie?

[Kol Korran]

i think warblade could be awesome. there are few maneuvers to choose, so she won't be too overwhelmed. she might be thrown off for a session, maybe two, but that's all. i think she will do well.

the important part is to help her choose maneuvers by what SHE wants to do.

[Palthera]

Fighters aren't _that_ bad. I know they're not as game dominating as the other classes but I've played straight fighters who were great fun. Sword, shield, heavy armour and then let her mess around with it from there.

And Bronn is cool. :smallbiggrin:

[Righteous Doggy]

Warblade is easy to handle, its got the easiest recovery too. however... fighter isn't that awful at low levels, and barbarian is always good if you want a fighter who doesn't need to think as hard hehe.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

Bronn struck me as a Fighter/Rogue. He is able to dual wield, and walks around with a longsword and a kukri.

However, I think ranger makes a good mercenary as well. decent skills (for scouting etc.) good combat capability, Favored Enemy Human, and some spells, which certainly help. Ranger is definitely a bit of a commando type. Same kind of thing as a Fighter/Rogue, just rolled into a single class with some back up spells.

[Fostire]

i think warblade could be awesome. there are few maneuvers to choose, so she won't be too overwhelmed. she might be thrown off for a session, maybe two, but that's all. i think she will do well.

the important part is to help her choose maneuvers by what SHE wants to do.

I'm not too familiar with ToB, what maneuvers would you suggest?


Bronn struck me as a Fighter/Rogue. He is able to dual wield, and walks around with a longsword and a kukri.

However, I think ranger makes a good mercenary as well. decent skills (for scouting etc.) good combat capability, Favored Enemy Human, and some spells, which certainly help. Ranger is definitely a bit of a commando type. Same kind of thing as a Fighter/Rogue, just rolled into a single class with some back up spells.
Fighter/Rogue sounds good.
I'm not sure on Ranger though, she definitely doesn't want magic, and animal companions are a hassle (although she won't get that for a while). Are there any descent ACF that get rid of the magic and animal companion?

[ILM]

If you decide to go Warblade (which I would recommend, subject to your existing party composition), you can ease the pain by preparing little cards for her with the descriptions for maneuvers on them. That way she can flip through them and if there's one she wants to use, she just turns it upside-down until recovered or something.

Also, if you're afraid that maneuver selection will be difficult, just let her freely redo her entire maneuver selection at each level up. You'll make sure that all her choices are legal with regards to IL and prerequisites and stuff. Being a new player, it's not like she's likely to abuse it. At some point down the line, when you feel she's confident enough, you can tell her that her next level up will be the last one she gets a free switcharoo, then she's back to the normal rules.

[Righteous Doggy]

Erm... why not sit down and ask what she wants with a copy of the book on hand? Its hard to make an awful decision, and it helps to explain how things work as you go if the person is so new they can't make a character sheet... Its hard to find something wrong if you just take a peak at what you can do with ToB.

There are plenty of ACFs to trade out animal companions and spellcasting, good is debatable.

[Phase]

When I think "First Character" I do think Fighter, not Warblade. Warblade is fine (if not particularly my style,) but it is far more complicated a class than Fighter for a beginner, especially since it would be introducing the Maneuver system to overlap the Spell system (and possibly the Psionics system, as Psionics are more common that ToB in most campaigns I've seen.)

The thing is that Fighters aren't bad. They're leagues ahead of the Truenamer, for example, and that's just the most extreme. The problem with Fighters is that in direct competition with an optimized Tier One class, they'll be overshadowed at high levels. But at low levels, with moderate optimization, with the characters building themselves to complement one another? Fighters are awesome. They have plenty of options and customization without having to fiddle with Spells, Powers, Maneuvers, Secrets, Vestiges, or any of that magical nonsense. Fighters are perfect for teaching players the ropes, the danger comes from the other players in the game.

[Fostire]

Also, if you're afraid that maneuver selection will be difficult, just let her freely redo her entire maneuver selection at each level up. You'll make sure that all her choices are legal with regards to IL and prerequisites and stuff. Being a new player, it's not like she's likely to abuse it. At some point down the line, when you feel she's confident enough, you can tell her that her next level up will be the last one she gets a free switcharoo, then she's back to the normal rules.

I like this idea. If she wants warblade I'm definitely doing that.


Erm... why not sit down and ask what she wants with a copy of the book on hand?

That's sort of what we're gonna do but I don't want to overwhelm her with choices so I just want to give her a choice of a few classes. She's already pretty scared of the massive amount of rules so I want to keep it small.

[Kol Korran]

I'm not too familiar with ToB, what maneuvers would you suggest?


it depends on what she wants to do. she knows 3 maneuvers and 1 stance only at first level.

i suggest to have the disciplines descriptions open (p.48) and leaf through the maneuvers and stances of the disciplines (diamond mind, iron heart, stone dragon, tiger's claw and white raven), they are not THAT many and see what fits her description of fighting, and choose according to that.

diamond mind is sort of zen like meditation (matrix style)

Iron heart is all about fancy weapon fencing

Stone Dragon is about brute force and defense

Tiger claw is brutal, fast, animalistic fighting

White raven is all about leadership and tactical use of allies.

hope this helps.

[Marlowe]

Could I make a counter-suggestion. How about Sneak-attack Thug (the SRD fighter variant)? Simple, more versatile than the standard Fighter, doesn't have a lot of specials, feats, maneuvers to mess up, is entirely on-line, has a borderline sane skill base, doesn't wear heavy armour (Bronn doesn't) and actually fits the inspirational character.

The Warblade suggestion is well and good, but it's like we're being asked for a quick, cunning, dirty street-fighter and we're delivering a Jedi Knight.

[moritheil]

I second what other people said - Warblade is good except that it might be more supernatural and more powerful than the character she had in mind.

Do note that if you give a new player a ToB character, it is very good to make them write out their powers on a set of cards and use those cards to keep track of them.

[Gavinfoxx]

I've made Warblades that are completely nonmagical. Just focus on Iron Heart and Stone Dragon. Rename the moves if you want, too.

Didn't the show actually show someone using a Murder Stroke at some point (hold blade by sword and use it like a warhammer, a historically valid move)?

[crazyhedgewizrd]

i would sugest fighter, it is a easy class to learn. Since she is new, just let her get use to the basic combat rules before pulling out the ToB.

[Marlowe]

I don't think "supernatural" is the issue. Warblade fluff ("exulting in melee", implied intense formal training, attention-whore tendencies) just doesn't seem to be a good match for the requested archetype. Also all the stances and maneuvers could very well be intimidating for a newbie. They are intimidating to some experienced players.

Do bear in mind I know at least one guy who's played D&D for years. Always plays Fighters, and thinks Power Attack is too complicated.

[Gavinfoxx]

Do bear in mind I know at least one guy who's played D&D for years. Always plays Fighters, and thinks Power Attack is too complicated.

That is someone who doesn't actually WANT to think, there.

@OP: You need to talk to this person and figure out what she wants out of D&D -- is she interested in the tactical stuff, the miniatures, making decisions in combat, doing weird and interesting things in combat, is she interested in the character as a person -- what gets her going to play this game?

[Canarr]

I second what Gavinfoxx said. A character is a lot more than just his combat options - or, he should be.

Remember, Bronn isn't just the guy with the sword who smacks around anyone who annoys the Imp. That'd be Shagga. Bronn did quite a bit of sneaking around, bribing informants, making that silver-tongued singer disappear... I'd say fighter/rogue fits him very well. He's smart, he's ambitious, greedy but reliable, and utterly ruthless.

[Marlowe]

I second what Gavinfoxx said. A character is a lot more than just his combat options - or, he should be.

Remember, Bronn isn't just the guy with the sword who smacks around anyone who annoys the Imp. That'd be Shagga. Bronn did quite a bit of sneaking around, bribing informants, making that silver-tongued singer disappear... I'd say fighter/rogue fits him very well. He's smart, he's ambitious, greedy but reliable, and utterly ruthless.

And he is most certainly not the guy posing in a shiny breastplate letting his red cape stream dramatically in the wind. He's the average looking chap in the battered leathers who ganks aforesaid guy through the armpit while aforesaid guy is still deciding what class features to use. Then sells aforesaid guy's stuff to pay for bribes and expensive women. Then eats breakfast.

I think it's pretty obvious what our prospective player wants to do. She doesn't want to do "cool things in melee". She's new. Playing a game where you get to hit people with sharp metal things is still a "cool thing" to her. What she wants is to do so as someone like Bronn.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

okay, Id say Fighter Rogue, fifty fifty. power attack with a longsword, and boom. you have a competent melee character who doesnt have a pet and doesnt use spells, but can bribe people, has all the stealthy rogue skill you need. Pick up Iron Will, roll with a decent DEX score (so you can wear your Bronn-like studded leather) and grab a kukri as a back up weapon. Maybe grab TWF for when you flank, so you can use both longsword and kukri, power attack with the longsword when you cant flank and get SA.

and I think that is a decent Bronn build, and is within your parameters.

[Soranar]

Could just make a swashbuckler build, after all Bronn uses his intelligence to defeat many of his opponents, he also fights dirty and rarely uses heavy armor.

Rogue 3/ Swashbuckler 17

take daring outlaw (feat) and penetrating strike (ACF from dungeonscape that makes sneak attack apply to crit immune creatures at half str).

take martial study + shadowblade to get DEX to damage (wield shortswords) and go the dual wielding route while focusing on DEX

[Gwendol]

I would suggest rogue/swashbuckler using the daring outlaw feat. Plenty of fun and versatility. Very Bronn too.

[Waker]

I would suggest against a Warblade for a new player. Some classes to consider:
-Fighter/Rogue (Sneak Attack Fighter or Feat Rogue are also viable)
-Ranger. If you don't want spellcasting or a pet there are a few options. To replace spellcasting you can use the variant Rangers in CWar or CCha, though I think the extra feats from the second one are more useful. You can lose the companion by taking Distracting Flanker from PHII or Spiritual Companion from CCha (If the player prefers a more urban character, you could tweak the spirit to only work in cities). If Bronn is also more of an urban type guy (not sure, never read the books) you may also wish to take the following ACFs: Hidden Stalker (CS online), Crowdwalker (CS online), Rival Organization (CS online), Trap Expert (DS), Urban Tracker (CS Online), Voice of the City (CS Online)
-Swashbuckler/Rogue is a viable combo when used with Daring Outlaw, affording a character with a good mix of skills and combat potential.

[Marlowe]

okay, Id say Fighter Rogue, fifty fifty. power attack with a longsword, and boom. you have a competent melee character who doesnt have a pet and doesnt use spells, but can bribe people, has all the stealthy rogue skill you need. Pick up Iron Will, roll with a decent DEX score (so you can wear your Bronn-like studded leather) and grab a kukri as a back up weapon. Maybe grab TWF for when you flank, so you can use both longsword and kukri, power attack with the longsword when you cant flank and get SA.

and I think that is a decent Bronn build, and is within your parameters.

If we're going to have a character with sneak attack, then Combat Expertise/Improved Feint would be a solid early feat combo which seems to suit his 1-on-1 style. Rogue and Thug both get Bluff as a class skill. Power Attack can be picked up a few levels later, when there's some more BAB to actually trade in.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

If we're going to have a character with sneak attack, then Combat Expertise/Improved Feint would be a solid early feat combo which seems to suit his 1-on-1 style. Rogue and Thug both get Bluff as a class skill. Power Attack can be picked up a few levels later, when there's some more BAB to actually trade in.

Imp. Feint is a trap, especially for a Fighter Rogue. Figther levels gets the BAB and extra sources of damage to make TWF or Two Handed power Attack viable when you are unable to get Sneak Attack via flanking or other methods.

IN an unoptimized party, Imp. Feint CAN be viable at low levels, but by level 8-10, you will rarely use it, and have wasted two feats.

For a straight Rogue, it is still a trap, but not quite as bad. Still bad, but not horrible.

[Knightofvictory]

Not sure if OP is still following the thread, but for a new player I'd stick to a single class in the PHB so they can just stick to one section of one book and actually learn their class. As has been mentioned, Bron is a powerful melee mercenary who favors light armor (no shields). He also fights 'dirty' and will do pretty much anything for money. I would show the player the fighter and rogue class and let them decide if they favor flanking, skills, and rolling lots of d6s or having a lot of hit points and more consistently holding their own in against small groups of melee, doing fair damage (power attack, weapon spec), and hitting more than one target at a time (cleave). I agree a hybrid fighter/rogue 'best' fits Bron, but I'd let the player decide which part sounds most fun for her and focus on that so she can learn the class.

If it's low level, fighters are not that underpowered compared to anything else. And if it's high powered, she will probably appreciate not having to pick/remember a bunch of maneuvers at the start.

[Fostire]

I got together with her yesterday and we made the character.
She ended up choosing a sneak attack fighter with martial study as one of her feats.

The character turned out quite well so thanks everyone for your wonderful suggestions, they were extremely helpful :smallsmile: