My common houserules

[Emperor Tippy]

Because someone asked me what house-rules I use to fix the power level of casters when I'm not running a very high op game I figured I would post them (this isn't a complete list but it's my answer to the more broken things)

The following are my core only rules for a low to mid op game:

1) Every spell, power, and ability that allows you to exceed your classes abilities is removed with a few exceptions. In core this means no Alter Self, Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, Shapechange, Gate (the calling function and XP cost are removed), Wish, Planar Binding, Lesser Planar Binding, Simulacrum, Lesser Planar Ally, Planar Ally, Miracle or Limited Wish. If you want to do something that one of those spells does you must ask for specific permission and I might or might not allow it.

2) Astral Projection uses up your resources. If you have a scroll and use Astral Projection it creates a copy of the scroll but once the copy is used the original is used up as well.

3) Disjunction suppresses magic items that fail their will save for 5 minutes. It still strips off all magical effects on the target without any check.

Wizards and other casters are still better than melee but most of the stuff that really makes DMing a pain is removed or fixed.

[Cavara]

Let us be blessed by the wisdom of tippy.

[FearlessGnome]

Does Tippy usually use any houserules to lessen the gap between sorcerers and wizards?

[Ashtagon]

Do you do anything to curtail scry-and-die tactics?

[Emperor Tippy]

Does Tippy usually use any houserules to lessen the gap between sorcerers and wizards?
Nope. More precisely, I replace the Sorcerer with the Psion with the following changes: it works off of Cha instead of Int, it get's any 6 skills as class skills, it gets to pick it's spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, and it gets a familiar. Focus is still needed and expended to use metamagic but there is no increase in casting time.


Do you do anything to curtail scry-and-die tactics?

Nothing beyond everyone getting Mind Blank/being inside a private sanctum and having Forbiddance/Dimensional Lock effects up.

Auto resetting traps of Dimensional Lock tend to be built into dungeons and monsters homes.

The removal of Wish cuts down on a lot of scry-n-dies utility.

[Chronos]

I understand banning Polymorph etc. from a balance point of view, but the wizard that can turn into an animal or monster or whatever is still a pretty iconic idea in fantasy. Do you have any way of filling that iconic niche while still keeping the power in check?

[Emperor Tippy]

I understand banning Polymorph etc. from a balance point of view, but the wizard that can turn into an animal or monster or whatever is still a pretty iconic idea in fantasy. Do you have any way of filling that iconic niche while still keeping the power in check?

If they want to research a specific spell to turn into a specific creature then I let them and work with the player to decide it's abilities and limitations.

Turning into a regular animal might be a 2nd or 3rd level spell while turning into a dragon might be an 8th or 9th level spell that requires a part of the dragon in question as a focus. It really depends on the creature(s) in question.

[Grod_The_Giant]

1) Every spell, power, and ability that allows you to exceed your classes abilities is removed with a few exceptions. In core this means no Alter Self, Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, Shapechange, Gate (the calling function and XP cost are removed), Wish, Planar Binding, Lesser Planar Binding, Simulacrum, Lesser Planar Ally, Planar Ally, Miracle or Limited Wish. If you want to do something that one of those spells does you must ask for specific permission and I might or might not allow it.

What exactly do you mean by "allows you to exceed your classes abilities?" I mean, I certainly understand/agree with the banned spells you list, but I'm curious about the categorization.

[Emperor Tippy]

What exactly do you mean by "allows you to exceed your classes abilities?" I mean, I certainly understand/agree with the banned spells you list, but I'm curious about the categorization.
Basically, allows you to pick up abilities that you would not normally have from your race or class, or allows you exceed your classes limitations.

Simulacrum is banned under both parts. It allows you to grab the abilities of monsters and other classes (exceeding your classes abilities because you couldn't do those things otherwise) and it allows you to effectively increase your available spell slots (by using the Simulacrum's slots).

Wish (and Limited Wish) are banned because they allow you to cast spells not on your class list.

Everyone of those spells is banned because it lets you pick up abilities that you would otherwise not have; whether that is a hundred foot perfect fly speed and 35 dexterity or free wish's or immunity to magic.

[Ashtagon]

Being able to do 10d6 damage to everything in a 20-foot radius is also something that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do without a fireball spell. By the same logic therefore, a fireball spell lets you exceed your class's basic limitations and should be banned.

I know that's not your intent, but it does seem like some fuzzy logic is happening here.

[Emperor Tippy]

Being able to do 10d6 damage to everything in a 20-foot radius is also something that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do without a fireball spell. By the same logic therefore, a fireball spell lets you exceed your class's basic limitations and should be banned.

I know that's not your intent, but it does seem like some fuzzy logic is happening here.

No, that would be one of your classes abilities.

Those being banned let you do things that your class otherwise couldn't do.

[Malachei]

Because someone asked me what house-rules I use to fix the power level of casters when I'm not running a very high op game I figured I would post them (this isn't a complete list but it's my answer to the more broken things)

The following are my core only rules for a low to mid op game:

1) Every spell, power, and ability that allows you to exceed your classes abilities is removed with a few exceptions. In core this means no Alter Self, Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, Shapechange, Gate (the calling function and XP cost are removed), Wish, Planar Binding, Lesser Planar Binding, Simulacrum, Lesser Planar Ally, Planar Ally, Miracle or Limited Wish. If you want to do something that one of those spells does you must ask for specific permission and I might or might not allow it.

2) Astral Projection uses up your resources. If you have a scroll and use Astral Projection it creates a copy of the scroll but once the copy is used the original is used up as well.

3) Disjunction suppresses magic items that fail their will save for 5 minutes. It still strips off all magical effects on the target without any check.

Wizards and other casters are still better than melee but most of the stuff that really makes DMing a pain is removed or fixed.

I like them (though these are more harsh than mine). They make sense, especially disjunction and astral projection (which I'm handling similar).

[Emperor Tippy]

I like them (though these are more harsh than mine). They make sense, especially disjunction and astral projection (which I'm handling similar).

I do straight bans on the spells because there is no real way to rewrite them to work acceptably. I would end up having to adjudicate every use individually and that is a pain for me and not fair to the players.

[nedz]

What about more humble spells such as Knock ?

[Emperor Tippy]

What about more humble spells such as Knock ?

What about it? It might negate much of the need for the open lock spell but that's it.

Anything critically important that is locked is going to be covered in defenses to stop magic from working. Things like the door having an auto resetting anti-magic trap built into it.

Dealing with Knock isn't a particular problem, they stuff that I removed was removed because it is very difficult to deal with.

[nedz]

What about more humble spells such as Knock ?

[Kuulvheysoon]

If they want to research a specific spell to turn into a specific creature then I let them and work with the player to decide it's abilities and limitations.

Turning into a regular animal might be a 2nd or 3rd level spell while turning into a dragon might be an 8th or 9th level spell that requires a part of the dragon in question as a focus. It really depends on the creature(s) in question.

Well, there's a series in the PHB2 (Trollshape, Golemshape, etc...) and in Dragon Magic (Dragonshape) that might be acceptable.

So do you ban Anyspell (and, by extension, the Spell Domain)?

[Piggy Knowles]

Makes sense. In general, the problem with the polymorph/planar binding/simulacrum line of spells is that they are so open-ended, and every single monster in the game needs to be balanced against them. All it takes is one ill-planned ability, one monster that wasn't designed with player access in mind, and all of a sudden you've got Pun-Pun.

I've considered making similar changes in games that I've run, but never actually dropped those spells. That said, I have enforced the houserule that Astral Projection can't create copies of charged items before. My last game also allowed the Make Whole spell to reform sundered magic items, and included a greater version of Make Whole that restored power to items that had been hit with Disjunction. Disjunction was still a very nasty spell, and a major inconvenience, but it didn't totally wipe out a large portion of their WBL, since with a little downtime the PCs could get their items restored (or restore the items they looted from their enemies, as the case may be).

[Spuddles]

Do you address the priceless/worthless issue and eschew material components for any spells? Ice Assassin seems to be covered under rule 1. But what about travel through time?


I do straight bans on the spells because there is no real way to rewrite them to work acceptably. I would end up having to adjudicate every use individually and that is a pain for me and not fair to the players.

Have you seen the ritual rules in Unearthed Arcana? I use them, loosely, to adjudicate stuff like Planar Binding, Planar Ally, and other tier 1 effects. For lower powered games, I would use them for stuff like plane shift, teleport, or scry. Heck, I use them anyway if the party doesn't have a T3+ caster.

I use them for NPCs so I can ad hoc high level spell effects in places without high level casters.

[Ashtagon]

No, that would be one of your classes abilities.

Those being banned let you do things that your class otherwise couldn't do.

That's my point. How do you decide which of the spells are your class's abilities and which aren't. Since every spell ever written lets you do something you couldn't otherwise do. Just as fireball is something that is normally something you can do, so is wish, once you reach that level.

If you want to call it "DM's call", that's fine. But I'm not convinced yet that this is a rule that can be objectively applied.

[ericgrau]

I understand keeping people from boosting their combat ability above normal stats with polymorph. It's a shame that there are broken forms that do this. To get back the classic utility animals I'd list out or stat up a bunch of utility forms that people can still use: merfolk for swimming, something for climbing, some kind of bird for flying, etc. Maybe more for the purpose of disguise, especially humanoid forms.

I was surprised the astral projection solution wasn't already said in the spell. Interesting approach to disjunction too.

[Killer Angel]

1) Every spell, power, and ability that allows you to exceed your classes abilities is removed with a few exceptions. In core this means no Alter Self, Polymorph, Polymorph Any Object, Shapechange, Gate (the calling function and XP cost are removed), Wish, Planar Binding, Lesser Planar Binding, Simulacrum, Lesser Planar Ally, Planar Ally, Miracle or Limited Wish. If you want to do something that one of those spells does you must ask for specific permission and I might or might not allow it.


If I'm understanding it...
Alter self - triton. swimming speed and other goodies: nope
Alter self - troglodite. Bonus to natural AC: maybe yes, there are spells that gives nat. AC bonuses. But i must research a specific version of Alter self.

Am I right?

[Feytalist]

There are of course creature-specific polymorph spells like trollform and dragonshape. I assume they are unavailable as default but may be researched independently? The difference with these of course is that they have specific bonuses, and aren't wide open like polymorph et al.

I like the disjunction fix as well. Provides incentive to actually use it in combat without destroying every magic item in reach.

[Malachei]

I think he is completely banning the spells, because he prefers to have a clean cut rather than do the work of defining limitations/exceptions.

[Killer Angel]

I think he is completely banning the spells, because he prefers to have a clean cut rather than do the work of defining limitations/exceptions.

It's the part "If you want to do something that one of those spells does you must ask for specific permission and I might or might not allow it", that arises questions about exceptions...

[DeAnno]

Nope. More precisely, I replace the Sorcerer with the Psion with the following changes: it works off of Cha instead of Int, it get's any 6 skills as class skills, it gets to pick it's spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, and it gets a familiar. Focus is still needed and expended to use metamagic but there is no increase in casting time.

How do damage spells from the Sor/Wiz list work with Psion mechanics? Do they all automagically receive augment text of 1 damage die/PP and +1 DC per 2 PP spent (with obvious exceptions for weird stuff like Scorching Ray, Disintegrate etc)? Also, can Sorcs take powers from the Psion list as well? Do you subscribe to the school of thought that you can expend your psionic focus to do multiple metapsionics on the same spell at once?

This is mostly just me being morbidly curious.

[Yahzi]

Every spell, power, and ability that allows you to exceed your classes abilities is removed with a few exceptions.
That's a really good idea.

[Emperor Tippy]

Well, there's a series in the PHB2 (Trollshape, Golemshape, etc...) and in Dragon Magic (Dragonshape) that might be acceptable.

So do you ban Anyspell (and, by extension, the Spell Domain)?
All of that would be outside of core. Anyspell makes the ban list when I'm running low to mid op as it's allowing Clerics to cast spells that they would otherwise not be able to. Most of the creature specific polymorph spells are allowed.


Do you address the priceless/worthless issue and eschew material components for any spells? Ice Assassin seems to be covered under rule 1. But what about travel through time?
If I'm allowing a spell into the game as anything besides a plot point (in which case it's usually a one time use magic item) I tend to make material components on spells like that into foci.


Have you seen the ritual rules in Unearthed Arcana? I use them, loosely, to adjudicate stuff like Planar Binding, Planar Ally, and other tier 1 effects. For lower powered games, I would use them for stuff like plane shift, teleport, or scry. Heck, I use them anyway if the party doesn't have a T3+ caster.

I use them for NPCs so I can ad hoc high level spell effects in places without high level casters.
I don't really like the ritual rules. I use my own when I want effects of that style in the game. For NPC's I give them whatever abilities I want them to have and then work out the justifications for how they gained those abilities afterwards.



That's my point. How do you decide which of the spells are your class's abilities and which aren't. Since every spell ever written lets you do something you couldn't otherwise do. Just as fireball is something that is normally something you can do, so is wish, once you reach that level.

If you want to call it "DM's call", that's fine. But I'm not convinced yet that this is a rule that can be objectively applied.
Fireball, and most spells, does a single thing. It's one spell doing one thing. The list of spells I banned are one spell letting you do multiple things that you would otherwise not be able to do. Basically, spells got banned when what they allowed you to do was way too general.



If I'm understanding it...
Alter self - triton. swimming speed and other goodies: nope
Alter self - troglodite. Bonus to natural AC: maybe yes, there are spells that gives nat. AC bonuses. But i must research a specific version of Alter self.

Am I right?
It depends on the game, the level the characters are, and a ton of other factors. Does the created version give you better or worse ability scores? A special ability that you otherwise wouldn't have? A big downside? etc.


How do damage spells from the Sor/Wiz list work with Psion mechanics? Do they all automagically receive augment text of 1 damage die/PP and +1 DC per 2 PP spent (with obvious exceptions for weird stuff like Scorching Ray, Disintegrate etc)?
Nope, the spells are treated exactly as they are written.

Also, can Sorcs take powers from the Psion list as well?
Nope, at least no more so than a wizard could. Depending upon the power in question I might or might not allow it but by default no.

Do you subscribe to the school of thought that you can expend your psionic focus to do multiple metapsionics on the same spell at once?
No, expend focus once per meta applied. Sorcerers loose the ability to really stack meta like a wizard could but they make up for it with a lot more versatility.

Incidentally, they still cast like psions (no spell failure, can suppress all visible signs of casting with a concentration check). It's basically free Eschew, still, silent, and invisible if you can make the concentration check (which is relatively easy).


This is mostly just me being morbidly curious.
It's fine, happy to answer.



That's a really good idea.

Thank you.

[The Glyphstone]

Constantly-resetting anti-magic traps are easier than just banning Knock? The clean-sweep on extreme versatility spells makes sense, but considering Knock is available from level 3 onward, don't you think that's kind of...overkill in a supposedly low-op game?

[nedz]

Constantly-resetting anti-magic traps are easier than just banning Knock? The clean-sweep on extreme versatility spells makes sense, but considering Knock is available from level 3 onward, don't you think that's kind of...overkill in a supposedly low-op game?

How does this help Rogues ?

[Emperor Tippy]

Constantly-resetting anti-magic traps are easier than just banning Knock? The clean-sweep on extreme versatility spells makes sense, but considering Knock is available from level 3 onward, don't you think that's kind of...overkill in a supposedly low-op game?

No. To build a secure vault in D&D requires a large amount of persistent magical effects. You need to block incorporeal/ethereal passage, teleportation, blasting, knock, mind control, invisibility, shapechanging, and extra dimensional spaces.

It's expensive and difficult to do. If someone doesn't want to invest the money, well they get robbed whenever pretty much anyone with magic feels so inclined.

And Antimagic doors aren't that expensive, only 33,000 GP each. Considering that a top of the line modern vault can run you upwards of several million dollars, that's reasonable cheap.

[Ranting Fool]

Constantly-resetting anti-magic traps are easier than just banning Knock? The clean-sweep on extreme versatility spells makes sense, but considering Knock is available from level 3 onward, don't you think that's kind of...overkill in a supposedly low-op game?

My house rule on knock is this.

Works fine on any non-magic door/lock
If a door is Arcane Locked, Spellcaster check vs who ever put the lock there.

[The Glyphstone]

No. To build a secure vault in D&D requires a large amount of persistent magical effects. You need to block incorporeal/ethereal passage, teleportation, blasting, knock, mind control, invisibility, shapechanging, and extra dimensional spaces.

It's expensive and difficult to do. If someone doesn't want to invest the money, well they get robbed whenever pretty much anyone with magic feels so inclined.

And Antimagic doors aren't that expensive, only 33,000 GP each. Considering that a top of the line modern vault can run you upwards of several million dollars, that's reasonable cheap.

And you need all of that to secure your vault against a group of level 5 PCs? That'd be the earliest level a group would be expected to throw around Knocks, unless they cashed out for a Wand of the spell. Or do you only run double-digit level games, where any adventure involving 'breaking into a vault' would have protections against such intrusions?

[nedz]

Still, Wand of Knock invalidates one of the Rogues architype roles.

[Emperor Tippy]

And you need all of that to secure your vault against a group of level 5 PCs?

No, that's what an auto resetting lock trap is for. If the trap isn't first disabled (and you should add a trivial level 0 effect to it so that only rogues can disable it) it automatically relocks the door once it is unlocked. That's the cheapy low level option. Think of it like this, a regular old lock box in the real world is the equivalent to a regularly locked door in D&D; it will stop the casual amateur and nothing else. A top of the line home safe is the equivalent of a door with a resetting trap on it to relock it when unlocked; it will stop the run of the mill thief who isn't prepared for it. A professional vault is the door with an anti-magic trap and the room covered in a Forbiddance effect; it will stop everyone but professional thieves and B&E specialists. A top of the line high security vault is the room that has double layer walls with AMF and Wall of Force traps, etc.; it will stop all but a team of professional vault crackers who know what they are hitting.

[Spuddles]

Still, Wand of Knock invalidates one of the Rogues architype roles.

Theoretically, yeah, but at low levels, glitterdust or web is a much better use of that spell slot. At higher levels, things with multiple locks means you burn through wands/slots just as quickly. Besides, if you got a rogue looking for traps, may as well let him unlock stuff too. But then, t1 invalidates a lot of archetypes.

[DeZwarteMaan]

No, that's what an auto resetting lock trap is for. If the trap isn't first disabled (and you should add a trivial level 0 effect to it so that only rogues can disable it) it automatically relocks the door once it is unlocked. That's the cheapy low level option. Think of it like this, a regular old lock box in the real world is the equivalent to a regularly locked door in D&D; it will stop the casual amateur and nothing else. A top of the line home safe is the equivalent of a door with a resetting trap on it to relock it when unlocked; it will stop the run of the mill thief who isn't prepared for it. A professional vault is the door with an anti-magic trap and the room covered in a Forbiddance effect; it will stop everyone but professional thieves and B&E specialists. A top of the line high security vault is the room that has double layer walls with AMF and Wall of Force traps, etc.; it will stop all but a team of professional vault crackers who know what they are hitting.

Vaults are a very touchy concept. Banks didn't really exist in the Middle ages and vaults were only for the rich. Otherwise, people tried to hide their stuff in different ways. Like burying it. :P hahaha

So to make a vault we need to assess, who is making the vault? A rich person with enough money to invest a massive sum into spells?
Light source: Lanterns that reveals all invisible creatures
Ward: That stop extraplanar travels. (Stops ethereal and insubstantial)
Ward: Teleport lock
Magic Traps that shoot spells, behind bars so that thieves cant reach to disable
Guards: Constructs which guard the area.
Magic Locks: There is a 3rd level lock spell that tunes to a key. if the lock is opened or broken the bearer knows.
Anti-scry: Permanency on "Mages private sanctum."
The Entry into this room is via a permanency on 'phase door"

So let's reiterate. To enter this hidden vault. You need to be the caster on the phase door, or know this vault is behind a solid stone wall? Possibly no tracks lead here because the building has unseen servants cleaning constantly, or the owner flies in. Cant teleport here. Cant come via other planar travel. Once you are there you are assailed by the trap and the constructs. The chests in here will alert the owner if the chest or locks are bypassed.

This is just a standard Mage tower style vault. No standard thief is getting in. Knock is useless till you are inside... and even then the first lock knocked will tell the owner mentally.

My favorite magic device to research. A Key, that when used in any door will open a "Mages Magnificent Mansion". Only the attuned owner to the key may enter. Takes time to attune to the key. Only useable by Wizards. This Mansion is a permanent pocket dimension. (Example: portable hole). A wizard may use the key to enter his home at any point, and use this as a "vault" which no normal PC's will be breaking into any time soon... short of a Wish? ;) or perhaps stealing the key, and attuning it before the Wizard comes to reclaim his key. I did mention that he's attuned to it? also likely has the Dragoneye Rune that operates like an arcane mark, and 3/day allows the Wizard to track the direction of the rune?. ;) Other protections can be place on the key such as sigil's, runes, etc. But this key might be held inside a gloves of storing and impossible to steal. but once the Wizard enters his mansion... impossible to follow.

If you are seeking to make an impossible vault... there are definitely ways to make this occur without serious defenses...

I'd contemplated a Bank that held items. They were all stored in the Mansion, after being checked for polymorphed thieves and enchantments on the items. People would pay good money to a bank that had such protections. I also considered a wall of Post office box styled holder. Arcane Seal spell to tell the owner. But need key to open the extradimensional PObox. Thus thieves see empty box if they dont have the magic key. Inside the extradimensional space is the Focus for a "Secret Chest" spell. The owners responsibility to renew every 30 days, let all property is not guaranteed. ;) The secret chest having its own Arcane seal as well.other protections as desired...

very expensive venture, but a worthy bank setup for sure.

[atemu1234]

Quite frankly, I like my illusionists with a level of rogue anyways.

[Krobar]

Here's how my last wizard protected his vault:


I wish that no creature except for myself to be
able to enter this vault in any way, using any means whatsoever, without my expressed, freely-given, permission.

I wish that no creature except for myself to be able to remove from this vault, any item I have placed into this vault, in any way using any means whatsoever, without my expressed, freely-given permission.

[SiuiS]

That's my point. How do you decide which of the spells are your class's abilities and which aren't. Since every spell ever written lets you do something you couldn't otherwise do. Just as fireball is something that is normally something you can do, so is wish, once you reach that level.

If you want to call it "DM's call", that's fine. But I'm not convinced yet that this is a rule that can be objectively applied.

Fireball does not change your race. 10d6 damage in an area is available through wizard skill use (craft: alchemy).

Claw/claw/bite/mundane flight/massive natural armor/size/reach are not racial or class abilities for anyone.

[Telok]

Hey Tippy, how do you deal with things like the Ebon Eyes spell and Iron Heart Surge? The stuff that's just badly written in the first place and not an unintended combo or something that was brought over from AD&D without enough editing.

Personally I've ruled that spells/powers that invalidate higher level spells/powers that do do the same thing (Ebon Eyes vs Darkvision) don't exist. Of course with IHS I've just looked at the players and said "Don't be a dip." which seems to work with my group.

[JDL]

(Notes thread is from 2012 and is unlikely to draw comment from the OP)

One of the spells I found surprisingly absent from the list of banned gamebreakers is Fabricate. The open nature of this spell coupled with the instant creation of objects makes it abusable in so many ways, from near infinite gold generation to tactical combat trap creation. The utility of this spell is really only limited by your imagination, which is why it's so potent.

[Douglas]

The Mod Radiant: Please do not post in threads that have been inactive longer than 45 days. If you have something to say on the subject, start a new thread instead and try to keep dependency on the old thread for context to a minimum.