Avengers!

[Cheesegear]

So, here in Australia, we actually got to see the movie yesterday. Apparently the rest of the world has to wait 'til next week.

Anyway, I can't say I was disappointed. It was exactly what I expected. Silly costumes, silly dialogue and heaps of explosions and fighting. If that's what you're expecting, that's what you get.

Now for some spoilerific bits;
Loki: He's a whiny little turd. On the one hand, he easily has most of the best lines of the entire movie. On the other hand, he talks a big game, but, because the movie is over in two hours (and most of that taken up by protagonist Character Development), he's never actually allowed to win. At one point he delivers an amazing paragraph of speech, only to have Black Widow be like 'lol, just kidding'. He has the best lines of the entire film, he just doesn't deliver the smackdown to back it up. And that just makes me sad.

While we're on it...Black Widow: She does nothing. At least, she is involved in the fighting, but I just feel she takes screen time away from the others. I'm not 12 anymore, 'sex appeal' from Scarlet Johanssen isn't a thing for me anymore. I'm a grown man with my own lady friends. I don't care about her lady bits, just put Captain America back on screen. The same, to a lesser extent for Hawkeye. But, Hawk actually does stuff a few times in the movie where the camera isn't from the rear-angle at hip-height.

Cap and Iron Man: Perfect. I have no complaints.

Thor: Again, perfect. Thor is a demigod. He had the best solo movie, he's the best in the Avengers. The problem is, if he's that powerful, why isn't Loki?

Hulk: Wow. People are crying that Mark Ruffalo isn't Edward Norton. Fact is, Mark Ruffalo does a good job. The problem is that I'm now resigned to the fact that like Ghost Rider, Hulk will never have a good movie. At one point, Banner says something like "It got dark for a while, I tried to kill myself...It didn't take." and then much later, "You want to know my secret? I'm always angry." The fact is, Hulk isn't interesting. At least, not to me. Hulk is functionally invulnerable (and depending on your source, immortal). Hulk solves all problems. He can't be hurt. So just point him in the right direction and you win. The interesting part of Hulk, is Banner. But then you wouldn't be able to make a movie where a big, green monster throws around a tank. I may be biased though, Bruce Banner is one of my favourite characters in the Marvel universe.

Similar to the comics, the only one who even matches Hulk is Thor. I was disappointed that Hulk wasn't able to lift Thor's Hammer. I mean, I get it. But it would've been badarse.

...With that said, while Hulk and Thor are on-screen, the rest of the team may as well not exist.

Now...Plot: You ever seen one of the animated movies? Or read a team-up comic of some kind? The heroes meet, they fight each other for no reason (or, rather, they hold the idiot ball, and instead of explaining what they're doing in a few short sentences, they hit back and escalate the fight), they become best friends against a common enemy. Done. The only fight worth a damn is Hulk vs. Thor, and it doesn't go for nearly long enough.

So, formulaic, average dialogue (except Cap and Loki), heaps of fighting and explosions. It's not bad. Let's say a 6 or 7 of 10. I thought it was exactly what I expected and I kind of wonder why I expected anything different. Watchmen, it ain't.

[NerfTW]

I didn't read any of your spoiler, but come on, Watchmen?

That movie was the worst pile of pretentious, slavish devotion to dictating the comic verbatim on screen that I've ever seen. It was 2 and a half hours of pure boredom interspaced by the occasional glimmer that the director had any idea he was making a movie and not a book report.

I loved the graphic novel, but in all honesty, that movie should have died in pre-production.

[Cheesegear]

I loved the graphic novel, but in all honesty, that movie should have died in pre-production.

I agree. However, I also realise that the Watchmen movie was supposed to be a verbatim copy of the novel - and the opening sequence was brilliant, by the way. And, as a film production of the novel, it does it quite well. Certainly the ending made a bit more sense.

But, that's what I'm saying. The film (both Avengers and Watchmen) lived up to my expectations, maybe a little less. But certainly not more. And, the point is, that my expectations weren't that far out of the ordinary.

[Dumbledore lives]

Well I already posted in the other thread, but I'll reiterate some points. I'll say them in a spoiler, because I believe very few will have actually seen the film at this point.

I really liked the way Loki was done. The point was that he talked big, but was more of a pawn for the aliens, and he shouldn't have been physically strong being a trickster god anyway. And he did kill comic relief agent whose name I can't remember, so he did accomplish something, even if it did just add fuel for the Avengers. Also the speech with Black Widow was foreshadowed as not affecting her, so it wasn't really that much of a surprise.

As for Black Widow, well yeah, she's a spy she was not going to do much in terms of combat, that was how it was always going to happen. I did feel her being the one to shut down the portal was kind of shoeing something for her to do in, but hey, it was better than her killing a few dudes with her tiny little guns. I actually feel Hawkeye was really well done in this movie, actually built up as a credible threat during the first two acts, and working well as an assassin and spotter during the last act.

Little to say about the others, I really like them, but I disagree with you about Hulk. Yes he's invincible, but that's the point, and that is why his movies should not be about him fighting some big threat, but about Banner trying to deal with him. An intelligent Hulk is effectively unstoppable as shown in World War Hulk, so yes if he really lets off steam heads will roll, or explode depending on how graphic they can be. Essentially his movie would be a werewolf movie, which could work really well, as some werewolf movies have been in the past, though they are largely crap I'll admit.

I wouldn't say that only Thor and the Hulk matter, Iron Man still has a lot he can contribute, and Captain America has decent leadership potential. Hell even Hawkeye can take out a few targets. And the only good fight was Thor vs Hulk? That was a good fight but there was also Hawkeye vs Black Widow which was a good up and personal duel, also Iron Man vs Thor I thought worked fairly well, and there wasn't too much they could have said which would actually have stopped it preemptively. The plot has been done before, but it was pulled off extremely well I think, and they kind of had to do this kind of plot.

Final note you said the dialogue was average, now my theater had a huge amount of laughs all through the movie, and I thought there were some truly amazing one liners. I'll admit I am a fan of everything Whedon has done, but I'm sure you can appreciate some of the dialogue even if you don't generally like him. Plus Hulk just obliterating Loki in mid-monologue? That was amazing. Me personally, I got everything I was expecting, and give it a rating of as close to perfect as it could be, for what it is.

[Hopeless]

I didn't read any of your spoiler, but come on, Watchmen?

That movie was the worst pile of pretentious, slavish devotion to dictating the comic verbatim on screen that I've ever seen. It was 2 and a half hours of pure boredom interspaced by the occasional glimmer that the director had any idea he was making a movie and not a book report.

I loved the graphic novel, but in all honesty, that movie should have died in pre-production.

So not bad then?:smallbiggrin:

[Talya]

Silly costumes, silly dialogue and heaps of explosions and fighting. If that's what you're expecting, that's what you get.

So, formulaic, average dialogue (except Cap and Loki), heaps of fighting and explosions. It's not bad. Let's say a 6 or 7 of 10. I thought it was exactly what I expected and I kind of wonder why I expected anything different. Watchmen, it ain't.


Odd. sitting at 95% on Rottentomatoes after 40 reviews (and the only 2 "negative" reviews are average, and obvious trolls to get hits for the reviewers sites once you actually read the comments)...with "absolutely brilliant dialogue" and "best superhero movie yet" being rather common phrases among notoriously hard-to-please reviewers that didn't like previous entries in the franchise.

[The Glyphstone]

Obviously, the reviewers have all been replaced by Skrulls.

[Cheesegear]

Odd. sitting at 95% on Rottentomatoes after 40 reviews (and the only 2 "negative" reviews are average, and obvious trolls to get hits for the reviewers sites once you actually read the comments)...with "absolutely brilliant dialogue" and "best superhero movie yet" being rather common phrases among notoriously hard-to-please reviewers that didn't like previous entries in the franchise.

I disagree with the dialogue. Steve and Loki had the best dialogue by far. And I laughed maybe two or three times during the whole movie ("Loki's adopted."), but the rest of the audience laughed a fair few more times than I did.

But, I'm one of the few people that liked the other Hulk movie, the one with Eric Bana.

[ThePhantasm]

I haven't seen it yet, but I'm looking forward to the dialogue, it being Whedon and all. I think he was a good choice for director - maybe the best choice possible for this sort of film. I don't expect it to be near the Dark Knight in terms of being a classic - I think a movie of this nature is naturally going to be limited by the fact that it has to juggle such a huge cast. I do expect to see some expert juggling though, again it being Whedon (who handles ensemble casts quite well), and that can be highly enjoyable in its own right.

[Maxios]

In my opinion, Watchmen kicks The Dark Knight's rear end in the battle of the greatest superhero movie of all time.
But anyway, I can't wait until the Avengers comes out in the US of A. I'm going to go see it on my birthday, or the day after.

[ThePhantasm]

In my opinion, Watchmen kicks The Dark Knight's rear end in the battle of the greatest superhero movie of all time.

:smallyuk:

Watchmen is highly overrated and pretentious IMHO. But to each their own.

[Dienekes]

:smallyuk:

Watchmen is highly overrated and pretentious IMHO. But to each their own.

Oh Watchmen is most definitely pretentious, incredibly, astoundingly, fantastically pretentious even. It is however really, really good, draws interesting dynamic characters that go through great character development in a world that masterfully fits the tone of the Cold War and the threat of nuclear destruction with super heroes. Now personally I think TDK was a better movie than the Watchmen movie (which the comic was superior than but I will admit that opening was fantastic) but I like them both.

Anyway looking forward to this one. Could be fun.

[Talya]

I disliked the Watchmen as a comic. The movie was certainly not better than the comic.

I used to say I absolutely hated Alan Moore. However, I've realized it's just Alan Moore's more popular work that I hated (Watchmen, V for Vendetta, The Killing Joke). He's done some stuff I like that isn't nearly as well known.

(Note: V for Vendetta is one of my favorite movies, but if it had followed the nihilistic style of the comic more closely, I'd have hated it too. It's because of its differences from Moore's novel that I suddenly found it tolerable.)

[AshesOfOld]

Veering slightly off topic, but I'll pitch in. Watchmen was great. Both as a comic and as a movie. V for Vendetta was also an amazing movie (thought the comic was little bit text-heavy, though). To each his own and all that.

But it was just refreshing to see realistic and engaging heroes in a superhero movie with a plot. I mean, it's not every day you watch a superhero movie that's actually coherent (here's looking at you, Spiderman 2. And Daredevil. And Superman Returns. And Elektra, X-men the last stand, Ghost rider, the Green Lantern, Fantastic Four, Batman and Robin and on and on and on).

Anyway, I can't wait to watch Avengers in the theatre :smallbiggrin:

[Androgeus]

So I'm sad and making a post from the screen

[S.Thunderforge]

That's a monumental list of drech, Ashes. I don't disagree.

I gotta stand in defense of Fantastic Four, though. The familial bonds - one of the group's great calling cards - were handled very well. The end battle - Dr. Doom with a bazooka launcher - not so much.

And although this is going to destroy any and all credibility I may have built up (and on my first post, no less), Batman and Robin was excellent - for what it was! A very colorful little romp, no?

Let's not forget that these are comic book movies, not action films (per se). They should have a little color and kookiness. The X-Men in black leather? No thanks.

The more I hear about Avengers being "over the top", the more excited I am to see it.

[comicshorse]

Just got back from it.

My opinion: good but not great. The one-liners are nice but there are too many ensuring that whenever any tension is built up its pretty much instantly deflated.
But it does a good job of establishing the characters of the Avengers and thank-you-god no horribly cheesy 'inspiring' speeches.

7/10

[Cheesegear]

My opinion: good but not great. [...]7/10

Have you read the spoilers in the OP? Agree or disagree?

Anyway, 6-7/10 is my thoughts as well. Glad someone agrees. A lot of people are going into this thinking it's going to be the best thing ever.

[Jan Mattys]

I went to the cinema with little to no expectations.
The ingredients for a disaster recipe were all there: big cast, gigantic fanbase, 4-years-long hype...

I must say I laughed and giggled and overall loved the movie. It's an incredibly well built rollercoaster ride, it never takes itself too seriously (and never for more than 30 seconds at a time) and it definitely belongs to a different genre than the Dark Knight trilogy.

And it's extremely enjoyable at what it does. Just sit back, buy popcorns, imagine you're 10 years old and... it's magic. Personally, I found it the best movie of the lot (an honor previously reserved to the first Iron Man movie, but that was a one-man-show, this one is a group effort).

It's the first time I really feel like watching a comic onscreen, and not an adaptation.

I won't go as far as to give it 10/10, but really, there were like 100 things that could go wrong with the Avengers, and Whedon dodged all - or almost all - of them.

Kudos to him.

[Selrahc]

The one-liners are nice but there are too many ensuring that whenever any tension is built up its pretty much instantly deflated.

I can see that. It's probably the biggest complaint I've got with the film, that there was a little too much comedy.

Otherwise? I thought it was an exemplary superhero flick. Some really nice action scenes, very good dialogue, a decent plot that strayed beyond the clichés. Really enjoyable movie.

[ThePhantasm]

Wow. That was an amazing movie. I went in with high expectations and they were surpassed. Can't really think of a way that the movie could be improved, which is rare for me.

I thought Loki was a formidable villain. Not with raw power, but certainly psychologically. A good "first villain" for a franchise.

Captain America, Iron Man, and Hulk were certainly the highlights. Top form, all of them.

Black Widow had a much larger role than fan and critical reviews had led me to believe. I didn't think she was a worthless member of the team at all. She actually accomplished way more than Hawkeye. Scarlett's acting was so-so, but not a detriment to the film.

This is the best Hulk movie there has ever been.

Not a moment in the film I didn't enjoy, really. I think someone would have to be really cynical not to have a fun time.

[Mathis]

I really liked it. It's not an amazing movie, and I felt like it had been designed to not offend anyone at all and so becoming a big box office success. Still it was entertaining, funny and overall a jolly good time! Personally I think Mark Ruffalo did a fantastic job as Hulk. He didn't have much material to act on, but for me he stole the show.

[TheLaughingMan]

Good to hear it's doing well. I was a bit worried about it, but I figured it couldn't be any worse than Captain America. Nice to see my meager anticipation was rewarded. :smallsmile:


I mean, it's not every day you watch a superhero movie that's actually coherent (here's looking at you, Spiderman 2. And Daredevil. And Superman Returns. And Elektra, X-men the last stand, Ghost rider, the Green Lantern, Fantastic Four, Batman and Robin and on and on and on).

Oh no you didn't.

[Archonic Energy]

he did kill comic relief agent whose name I can't remember, so he did accomplish something, even if it did just add fuel for the Avengers

His name was Phil... I liked Phil! he was cool. :smallfrown:
a funny thing happened on the way to Thor's Hammer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1uD5_ovwqg)
the consultant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uPBGStuFgw)

[ThePhantasm]

His name was Phil... I liked Phil! he was cool. :smallfrown:
a funny thing happened on the way to Thor's Hammer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1uD5_ovwqg)
the consultant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uPBGStuFgw)

I can't believe they killed of Couslon... that was so sad... :smallfrown:

[Archonic Energy]

I can't believe they killed of Couslon... that was so sad... :smallfrown:

at least he found out what that gun did. Also, does anyone who is more up on the comics know who/what the end sequence was? :smallconfused:

i'd rate Avengers : Assemble as 6/5 it broke my scale.
also the 3D was worth the headache. and i've only ever said that about one other film, Tron : Legacy.

i may see it again today... if i can get tickets.

[Selrahc]

Also, does anyone who is more up on the comics know who/what the end sequence was? :smallconfused:



Thanos

http://howsyourrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ThanosThrone.jpg

One of the big league cosmic villains in the Marvelverse, right up there with Galactus. A powerful alien tyrant in love with the anthropomorphic personification of death, who seeks to impress her and become her equal. Hence the line about "Courting Death".

He has been at the centre of a number of seminal Avengers and "Big Event" storylines, and makes for a nice villain. He is particularly linked with the Cosmic Cube(I.E, the tesseract) and the Infinity Gauntlet(which you may have seen floating around in an Asgardian treasure vault during Thor).

[Dumbledore lives]

Thanos

http://howsyourrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ThanosThrone.jpg


He seemed really red for that. He normally has like grey skin right? Well if it was it supports my theory that the Avengers will lose at least partially in the Avengers 2, because Thanos is a badass threat, especially if he has what was it, the infinity gauntlet.

[Selrahc]

Thanos colour shifts a little between Grey, Blue and Purple. The one in the film was pretty purple.

The line about "Courting Death", the stature and the chin ridges are a dead giveaway though.

[Archonic Energy]

thanks peeps.

so what film did you want to see before Avengers 2

Iron Man 3
Thor 2
a Black Widow/Hawkeye prequel.
any other additions?

[Closet_Skeleton]

Saw this yesturday.

Now that was a comic book movie.

Also managed to be a proper 'team' movie in the way the X-Men movies never really seemed to manage. An 'ensemble' rather than 'too many characters'.

[bahamut19]

I just saw it, and I have to say that it was the best film I've seen in a long time. The only thing I'd say about it is that it's very Whedonesque. I'm a massive fan of Joss, so for me that was a plus. I can understand why for some that would be a negative, though.



While we're on it...Black Widow: She does nothing. At least, she is involved in the fighting, but I just feel she takes screen time away from the others. I'm not 12 anymore, 'sex appeal' from Scarlet Johanssen isn't a thing for me anymore. I'm a grown man with my own lady friends. I don't care about her lady bits, just put Captain America back on screen. The same, to a lesser extent for Hawkeye. But, Hawk actually does stuff a few times in the movie where the camera isn't from the rear-angle at hip-height.

I strongly Disagree with this. The Avengers is an ensemble film. It's not "Captain America and Friends". I feared that Black Widow and Hawkeye were going to be largely left out of the film in favour of the more famous heroes. I was so relieved that I was wrong.

Furthermore, I found both Black Widow and Maria Hill to be a refreshing change from how women are usually portrayed in super hero films. I really like strong female characters, and it's something that Whedon does particularly well. Any limitations on their usefulness can be placed onto Marvel's character designers, not the film makers. In action films strong female characters are usually a bit of an elephant in the room, because they almost always do one of two things -

1) Act tough but do nothing (Van Helsing is an extreme example of this - does she ever use that sword?).

or

2) A big deal is made of how strong they are at the start to "inform" the audience that although the character is female, she can still be strong. I find it both patronising and cheesy. Of course, when push-comes to shove they do nothing, and get saved by the lead male character (I wouldn't mind so much, except it hardly ever happens the other way round). Ugh.

In The Avengers it never came up. All characters had their moment to save and be saved - which is exactly how it should be in a super hero film. Much like every male character ever conceived, the female characters in this film kicked ass with no fuss made about it. It was just a given. I didn't get any "gratuitous sexy" vibes off Black Widow at all. I thought she was a key member of the team, and I'm struggling to think of a reason to justify why you think she did "nothing". Unless you don't think helping to save a bus full of people, saving Hawkeye, or shutting down the portal counts as something. I felt that there was no character in the entire film that didn't have enough screen time, or wasn't useful enough, but meh. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.



But anyway, how awesome was that long shot towards the end where the camera switched through the fight from hero to hero? I nearly wet myself.

[Frozen_Feet]

Saw it just few hours ago. I will always remember it as the movie I had to ask five girls to go with me for before one agreed. :smalltongue:

I think it was amazing. It had great special effects and great music. The fight scenes warmed my soul. :smallbiggrin: They were like something straight from my imagination. Also, it was nice to see such life-like renditions of my childhood icons.

I couldn't disagree more with the OP's opinion about Black Widow. Going to the movie, I was afraid the non-supers would be totally overshadowed, but she, Fury and Hawkeye almost stole the show. Hawkeye in particular made a surprisingly effective antagonist, brainwashed though he may have been. And Widow's pulling of Loki's nose was awesome. For a moment, I really thought she'd broken character and went all emotional - then the next second, she's all cool and stuff. Nice.

I also loved the part where Hulk punched Thor for gits and shigles. Also, Hulk. Smash.

Would've liked to see more elaboration on Banner's new and improved relation with his Hyde side.

[Selrahc]

Dude. Spoilers. Shh!

[Parra]

Saw it today and loved it. Definatly how a superhero movie should be done.

There was one bit that had tears of laughter rolling down my face though PUNY GOD

[Raimun]

The Avengers was great fun. I was eager to see this at the first opportunity and I wasn't disappointed.

The action, the drama and the comedy worked well together and the movie kept me interested the whole time. Bonus points for the dialogue and the existance of previous movies. The film really benefitted from the fact the origin stories had been already told on the big screen and the characters established.

However, the bad guys were a bit lacking. Loki as a major villain made sense (comics) but he was the only developed villain. I had never heard of chitauri before, so they seemed to come out of the blue. What was so wrong with proper skrulls that they couldn't have been used? They're iconic and could still have worn those armors.

All in all, I can still say this is probably the best straight superhero movie. It's not trying to be break the mold by being dark and edgy, deep or a deconstruction of some sort. Instead, it's a finely crafted story about superheroes trying to save the world.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I had never heard of chitauri before, so they seemed to come out of the blue. What was so wrong with proper skrulls that they couldn't have been used? They're iconic and could still have worn those armors.

Chitauri are Ultimate Skrulls, except they look like and have a completly differant modus operandi to the film. So basically they were just Skrulls with a differant silly name. The comic Chitauri also said that 'Chitauri' was just a name "africans" had given them and that other species had called them Skrulls among other names so them using that name for themselves doesn't make much sense.

[Morph Bark]

Before this movie, I was sad that Edward Norton would not be playing the Hulk. But then I saw the movie and Mark Ruffalo just blew it out of the water. He characterized Bruce Banner and the Hulk very well. I think the fight scenes were done incredibly well and that 3D actually added a little to them in this movie, though they'd be enjoyable plenty enough without 3D. The one-liners were better than in most movies of this type and though a lot of dialogue was average, a few parts (especially with Loki) were great. Tony Stark's lines were a bit less than in Iron Man, I think, but perhaps it was just because he came across more as a jerk in this movie, until the final battle.

I'll be missing Coulson though. Brilliant character, loved how he was in multiple of the movies too. Went out in a great way though. *tips hat*

[Wardog]

Saw it today and loved it. Definatly how a superhero movie should be done.

There was one bit that had tears of laughter rolling down my face though PUNY GOD

Saw it this afternoon. That whole scene had the entire cinema in hysterics.

[Eldan]

So, I just got the Incredible Hulk yesterday to prepare for the avengers.

And I must say... why do people call it better than the other Hulk movie? Sure, Norton is good. But the movie is overall just... not memorable? Generic? Something like that. The first one had a few really good scenes and, I'd say, more interesting character development. If the final bad guy had not been so stupid looking, it would have been pretty great.

Anyway. Avengers tomorrow.

[Cheesegear]

I thought Loki was a formidable villain. Not with raw power, but certainly psychologically. A good "first villain" for a franchise.

I disagree. In a pretty much pure beat-'em-up movie like this, the main villain needs to pose a threat beyond words. However, Loki is the reason in-comic the Avengers were formed which I didn't actually know until now.


And Widow's pulling of Loki's nose was awesome.

I actually thought was terrible. Loki delivers his line perfectly. Spit hits the glass, we can see him raging out, and it looks like he might actually be able to get out of this situation and break Widow in half.

Then Widow gives the equivalent of 'TL;DR'. Defeating the entire purpose of the scene and making Loki look like a joke. Which, as the main villain, he should never, ever be. IIRC he's something like the 4th or 5th most dominant non-galactic-planet-eater power in the Marvel universe, and has manipulated those more powerful than him to boot. Instead, he's a joke.


The first [Hulk] had a few really good scenes and, I'd say, more interesting character development.

Yay! Someone who agrees with me.

[Dumbledore lives]

I actually thought was terrible. Loki delivers his line perfectly. Spit hits the glass, we can see him raging out, and it looks like he might actually be able to get out of this situation and break Widow in half.

Then Widow gives the equivalent of 'TL;DR'. Defeating the entire purpose of the scene and making Loki look like a joke. Which, as the main villain, he should never, ever be. IIRC he's something like the 4th or 5th most dominant non-galactic-planet-eater power in the Marvel universe, and has manipulated those more powerful than him to boot. Instead, he's a joke.


Loki is a joke in this movie, Hulk absolutely crushing him was just the final nail in the coffin. He had already been beaten in Thor, so having him as this unbeatable badass just wouldn't work that well because we as an audience have seen him beaten. Plus would they really leave Loki unsupervised so Black Widow could just let him out? Plus it was foreshadowed that that was Natasha's interrogation technique, so upon watching it the first time I was expecting something like that.

Also given the sheer amount of reality warpers in the Marvel universe I really doubt Loki is near the top. I don't know if he'd be in the top 5 within the X-men let alone the entirety of Marvel comics. He's a fairly high tier dude, but there are some threats that simply dwarf him like the puny god that he is. Also he loses every fight bar his introduction, I don't think he was supposed to be a competent villain, and should not have been built up as one. That's why, in my personal opinion, the movie worked so well, Loki was actually just being used as a tool by the Skrull, or perhaps Thanos.

[Cheesegear]

Also given the sheer amount of reality warpers in the Marvel universe I really doubt Loki is near the top.

He certainly is. Because he himself is a reality warper to some degree, and it takes no-one less than Sentry to put him down properly.

[Chen]

He seemed really red for that. He normally has like grey skin right? Well if it was it supports my theory that the Avengers will lose at least partially in the Avengers 2, because Thanos is a badass threat, especially if he has what was it, the infinity gauntlet.

If Thanos has the Infinity Gauntlet it's not going to be much of a movie...or at least it'll be a very confusing one. If I recall correctly when he intentionally cut himself off from using all the gems together he gave the assembled team of super heroes that were facing him something like a 0.01% chance of beating him...and then he killed them all (I think all the main heroes from the avengers movie are explicitly killed in that one fight too, maybe not hulk). I'm pretty sure his daughter is the one that final removes the gauntlet from his body after he becomes the living embodiment of the universe...

But it could make a good movie if they just make him some crazy strong super villain.

[The Troubadour]

And I laughed maybe two or three times during the whole movie ("Loki's adopted."), but the rest of the audience laughed a fair few more times than I did.

I agree. Personally, I think Whedon is an overrated writer whose "witty" one-liners aren't nearly as funny as he thinks they are - and he really should stop trying to interject them everywhere he can, sometimes they just kill the drama.

That said, I did like the movie a bit more - I'd give it an 8, myself. My favourite Marvel movie is still "Thor", but this one was pretty cool.


But, I'm one of the few people that liked the other Hulk movie, the one with Eric Bana.

Oh, hey, another one! High five! Seems like we're a rare breed. :-)

[SMEE]

Regarding the gauntlet, it's interesting noting that Loki scepter was powered by the mind gem.

Also, loved the movie. Hulk, Black Widow and Stark stole the show for me.

[Talya]

I agree. Personally, I think Whedon is an overrated writer whose "witty" one-liners aren't nearly as funny as he thinks they are - and he really should stop trying to interject them everywhere he can, sometimes they just kill the drama.

Long before I knew who Joss Whedon was, I liked Buffy and Angel, primarily for the humor. (Also, I think I was the only one I knew who recognized the old X-Files show as a comedy, not a drama.) I don't like traditional sitcoms. The dark, witty humor of shows like that are to me far funnier than anything "Seinfeld" or "Friends" ever put on TV. So I was a big fan of Buffy and Angel, but never looked at credits. I didn't even know who Whedon was.

So Firefly went by without me watching an episode, and a friend told me "Why didn't you watch it?" I said "Cowboys in space. Blah." He said "Jackie, it's made by the same guy who made Buffy." So I reluctantly went back and got hooked on it. Then Doctor Horrible came out during the writer's strike and made me a permanent fan. It was at that point that I started looking up what else he had done, and realized it's precisely his witty, humorous dialogue that draws me in to all of his shows. It's also why Dollhouse was far lower on my list. Whedon didn't write much of it, and it was sorely lacking in much of the same charming humor that was in his other shows, although that really picked up near the end.

I haven't ever liked Whedon's shows because I was a fangirl. It was Whedon's shows that turned me into a fangirl, and I'm still primarily affected by the dialogue itself, not the name on the show. (Heck, the highlight of the 2001 X-Men movie for me was always Wolverine's "You're a ****" response to Cyclops' "How do we know it's really you." I only found out this year that those are the only two lines of Whedon's dialogue left in the movie.)

I have noticed that same dialogue seems to turn off some viewers. I don't get this at all. For me, it's an automatic turn-on. On first playing Dragon Age: Origins, I instantly fell in love with Alistair. I later read his dialogue writer was a big Whedon fan and patterned Alistair's entire personality on Xander Harris. Suddenly it all made sense....


Seems like we're a rare breed. :-)
There's a reason for that. That Hulk movie started out passable, but devolved into bizarre and incomprehensible by the end.

[Raymond998]

I am going to see it this Friday... for free, during work hours.

I am not reading the spoilers, but it seems everyone has been liking it.

totally looking forward to it.

[Selrahc]

I have noticed that same dialogue seems to turn off some viewers. I don't get this at all. For me, it's an automatic turn-on.

Almost like taste is subjective. :smalltongue:

[The Troubadour]

...

To each his own. I immensely disliked "Buffy" (except for, what, 3 episodes?), I only liked "Angel" for a single season, and I never liked "Dollhouse". "Dr. Horrible's" was pretty good, and I quite liked "Firefly" - but even there, sometimes the humour was forced.
Oh, and I thought his run on "Amazing X-Men" was garbage. :-)
And personally, not only I found the "You're a 'nickname for Richard'" scene not that funny, but the "lightning vs. toads" dialogue wasn't funny from the beginning, even though he blames Halle Berry and the director for that.

[Androgeus]

Almost like taste is subjective. :smalltongue:

don't be silly, Talya's views are the objective truth.

[SoC175]

Regarding the gauntlet, it's interesting noting that Loki scepter was powered by the mind gem.
The gauntlet is shown as one of the treasures in Odin's vault in the Thor movie.

[Eldan]

There's a reason for that. That Hulk movie started out passable, but devolved into bizarre and incomprehensible by the end.

I liked the strange dream sequences especially. If they had had a less silly final villain (say, the one from the other Hulk movie), it would have been pretty great.

Also, maybe show the Hulk as a bit less positive. They seemed to be going out of their way to make sure that no soldiers or bystanders were killed by the Hulk. Actually making him dangerous would have helped motivate the military people a bit more, and make the situation a bit more grey.

[Cheesegear]

I agree. Personally, I think Whedon is an overrated writer whose "witty" one-liners aren't nearly as funny as he thinks they are - and he really should stop trying to interject them everywhere he can, sometimes they just kill the drama.

Ah. I can put my finger on things now that someone has pointed me in the right direction. I mean, let's take Stark, for example;

I thought; Why is he deliberately antagonising Banner? Is he really taunting a demigod who has already proven that said demigod can break Iron Man, needing to be saved by the Captain, who Stark will also taunt despite that he is a decorated War Hero, and in-Universe credited for being one of the reasons for winning World War II? Why is Stark deliberately being annoying?

Hint; "I'm a genius, billionaire, playboy philanthropist." doesn't actually disprove Steve's point. Or maybe I just didn't find that particular line funny because I'd heard five billion times in the trailer already.

The "Everything you are came from a bottle." line from Stark is categorically false. We know from Captain America that Steve was a Good Man (in captials) before he took the serum, in fact that was kind of the point of the first Act of CA.

See, I had no idea the movie was by Whedon until the end screen. Then I was like "Oh, now the 'humour' makes sense."

See, just because I can criticise something, doesn't mean I don't like it. But, the fact is, that I've already watched Buffy and Angel and Dr. Horrible. I remember having to wait a whole week to watch episodes of Buffy and Angel instead of burning through half a season in one sitting on DVDs like I do now. But, see, I've seen those things.

The thing is, now I know how I feel (Whedooonnn!!!), Avengers feels like an overlong episode of Young Justice. The villain is a joke, the team antagonises each other for no reason (except Cap, which is why I like him the most I suppose), and the end boss is beaten in somewhat comical fashion.

Now, don't get me wrong. Not even close. I like Young Justice. I like ensemble groups and humour like Buffy and Angel. The problem is, that I've seen it all before - and in the case of Buffy and Angel, many times.

Rant over. Again, I need to point out that I did like Avengers, but there are flaws in the movie that keep me from thinking it's the greatest movie ever like some reviews are saying.

[Runestar]

Am I the only one who watched the trailer showing a close-up of all the avengers standing outwards in a circle, each readying their signature attack, and Black Widow is there loading that tiny handgun of hers? It seems so out of place, compared with Repulsor beams or Thor's hammer. :smalltongue: :smallsigh:

[Chen]

Ah. I can put my finger on things now that someone has pointed me in the right direction. I mean, let's take Stark, for example;

I thought; Why is he deliberately antagonising Banner? Is he really taunting a demigod who has already proven that said demigod can break Iron Man, needing to be saved by the Captain, who Stark will also taunt despite that he is a decorated War Hero, and in-Universe credited for being one of the reasons for winning World War II? Why is Stark deliberately being annoying?


This doesn't really have anything to do with Whedon though. In both Iron Man movies and all the comics, Stark is just an ass.

[Cheesegear]

This doesn't really have anything to do with Whedon though. In both Iron Man movies and all the comics, Stark is just an ass.

Kind of. It's just that it's a very Whedon thing to do to try and make the ass funny, and I'm not particularly a fan of it. Wheras a lot of people are saying that Stark was their favourite part of the movie, and that disturbs me a little bit.

[The Troubadour]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Talya]

Kind of. It's just that it's a very Whedon thing to do to try and make the ass funny, and I'm not particularly a fan of it. Wheras a lot of people are saying that Stark was their favourite part of the movie, and that disturbs me a little bit.

See, i think all asses SHOULD be funny. For example, Dr. Gregory House is one of my favorite characters of all time (despite the show not even making my top 10), and he turns being an ass into a psychosis, AND is gut-wrenchingly funny in the process.

[Chen]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Cheesegear]

Joss Whedon sacrificing drama for the sake of a "joke"?

This. This the entire movie.

[Mx.Silver]

I just got back from seeing it, and I would have to agree with the critic's consensus that this is a solidly good film; in fact I'd say it's probably the best one Marvel Studios have come out with so far. Normally I tend to like my fiction fairly dark and cerebral/pretentious, but the film's fairly light-hearted approach really works. Indeed, this is probably the best way they could have gone with it, given that the subject matter would most likely detract from attempts at overly serious drama.

I do have to give quite a lot of credit to Whedon with this - in fact this may well be some of best work outside of Firefly. While he tends to be known mostly for his distinctive dialogue and humour (which I quite like, but I'm aware it's divisive) he's actually managed to really the mark in making an ensemble cast actually work as an ensemble cast film. All the main Avengers have their time in the spotlight without any one of them overshadowing the others, and none of them ever feel like dead-weight, which is impressive when you consider both the range both in the individual character's power level and in the actual cast.
If any character could be accused of stealing the show I would have to say it's Loki which really, as he is the main villain, is as it should be. Yes, he's not ever presented as being too strong for any of the individual heroes to beat but really he doesn't have to be, because for most of the film the avengers haven't really come together as a team. This is something he exploits, so as to buy himself enough time to unleash his army - which is a big enough threat to warrant a full team of superheroes.


But yeah, it's a very put-together, highly entertaining action film that neither takes itself overly seriously nor crosses the line into outright comedy/parody. No, it's not terribly deep but neither is it stupid and sometimes that's all a film needs to be.

[Dumbledore lives]

Wheras a lot of people are saying that Stark was their favourite part of the movie, and that disturbs me a little bit.

Robert Downey Jr. has charisma even when he is acting the ass. Charisma plays a huge part in making a character likable, like Barney from How I met your Mother. He's a chauvinistic obnoxious jerk but he is played by Neil Patrick Harris so people love him.

[Cheesegear]

Charisma plays a huge part in making a [jerk] character likable

So, whether you're funny, or just a jerk, is dependent on how attractive you are? ...Don't people see the flaw?

[Cleverdan22]

So, whether you're funny, or just a jerk, is dependent on how attractive you are? ...Don't people see the flaw?

Charisma isn't just "attractiveness" man, it's natural magnetism and plenty of other factors. Essentially, it's "likability," so charisma can easily be the difference between being a jerk or not.

Also, people, put some dang SPOILER TAGS around stuff. I popped in here just to see some opinions about the movie, and got two HUGE plot points spoiled. Aughghghg come on people, just come on.

[Cheesegear]

Charisma isn't just "attractiveness" man, it's natural magnetism and plenty of other factors. Essentially, it's "likability," so charisma can easily be the difference between being a jerk or not.

I know what charisma is. :smallsigh:
I also know that the relationship between charisma and attractiveness is a positive one. And a lot of people aren't actually going to discriminate between the two.

[SuperPanda]

On Jerks who you love to watch but would hate to know: Aka, Edmund Blackadder, Tony Stark, Greggory House, Sherlock Holmes, The Doctor (certain incarnations) and such...

The trick from a writer and actors side is to balance the straight out Jerk things they do with something else that makes people want to see this person be a Jerk more. For Blackadder it was the fact that while he was an evil bastard, everyone around him was a simpering moron. No one in their right mind wants a "friend" like Edmund Blackadder but watching him fail time and time again because his brilliant plans forget to take into account the idiots he trusts with them is comic gold.

For Gregory House the thing that keeps bringing people back to him is that he is absolutely stone-cold Brilliant. In essence its the fact that his character is right so much more often than he is wrong. It wouldn't matter if he was a politician, and investment banker, or an assassin, this dynamic makes him an interesting character. There is an implication that he might be right, and that being an jerk-face might be the right way to do things. After all he acts like a Jerk all the time and still manages to be right when everyone around his is wrong.

So, we have jerk-villain that people love. Jerk mentor, protagonist figure, who people love. How about a jerk super hero?

Tony stark is an interesting character because all the jerkiness, all the pomp and circumstance, all of it is his armor. The whole dynamic of Iron Man works so well because, Stark is so obviously insecure around the other heroes. The script I think didn't do a good job of this but the Actors did an amazing job of it especially in the scene with Cap and the whole bottle line.

Not only is Stark insecure and covering that up with the whole playboy-philanthropic side of things, he genuinely does care and that's the part which makes him a Hero. With Captain America if you have a scene where there is a bad guy running away and a child in danger you know that the cap will go rescue the child. With Iron Man, he'd do the exact same thing though he might angst about it and might have to think for a moment before he did.

This is why I really like Iron Man but absolutely hate Wolverine. Wolverine has all the jerkiness without the heart or the brains of Stark. Wolverine is basically Hulk without Banner.

Greg House is based on the doctor Sir Conan Doyle based Sherlock Homes on, so I class them together. The Doctor is a super-hero version of that and in many of his forms he can be pretty mean. The Master is definitely a combination of Black adder and Greg House, he really only love him because he know he has to fail.

Any way that's my take on love-ablility and Jerks.

As for Whedon, I really don't understand the level of passion (hate or love) that he seems to generate. He's been a pleasantly bland blur in the background of my life; fun at times, boring at others.

I think he requires the right actors and situations to make his style work.

[Devonix]

I liked the strange dream sequences especially. If they had had a less silly final villain (say, the one from the other Hulk movie), it would have been pretty great.

Also, maybe show the Hulk as a bit less positive. They seemed to be going out of their way to make sure that no soldiers or bystanders were killed by the Hulk. Actually making him dangerous would have helped motivate the military people a bit more, and make the situation a bit more grey.

Part of the tragedy of the Hulk is that he DOES go out of his way not to hurt people, he just wants to be left alone but they won't let him.

[The Troubadour]

Haven't seen the movie yet, but even if I was super charismatic, if I came up to a police officer dressed in a weird costume and started ordering them around, I certainly hope they wouldn't obey, even if said orders were tactically sound

That didn't bother me. What bothered me was the way Cap convinced the officer to help - or rather, the way he didn't convince the officer, the policeman simply saw him kicking alien behind and obeyed out of... Well, basically, fear. I expect better from a movie which has as one of its themes that "good, old-fashioned heroism is exactly what the world needs".

[Sean Mirrsen]

That didn't bother me. What bothered me was the way Cap convinced the officer to help - or rather, the way he didn't convince the officer, the policeman simply saw him kicking alien behind and obeyed out of... Well, basically, fear. I expect better from a movie which has as one of its themes that "good, old-fashioned heroism is exactly what the world needs".Well, try to see the situation from the policeman's perspective. Here they are, armed with handguns and a meager salary, facing a horde of space monsters with gliders and pulse rifles. They're horribly outgunned, but can't leave because they have to at least try and protect the civilians. Suddenly, this shield-carrying guy in a spangly outfit runs up to them and starts giving out what is essentially sound tactical advice. Their first reaction is absolutely correct - they have no idea who this guy is and why does he want them to go off the streets to help people in the buildings stay out of the fighting. Then, some of the aforementioned space monsters barge in, and in the time it took the policemen to overcome the shock, he's dispatched them all. Doing this, he is basically telling them: "I'm fighting these things too, I'm your ally. And I can handle them, while you can't. Go do a job you can actually succeed at."

In other words, the answer to the policeman's question is "Because I can fight these things for you, and those people still need to be kept out of harm's way." Personally, I think that while the situation is pretty funny in itself, it's also rather sound. I think I'd have the exact same set of reactions as that policeman.

[The Troubadour]

Well, try to see the situation from the policeman's perspective. (...) Doing this, he is basically telling them: "I'm fighting these things too, I'm your ally. And I can handle them, while you can't. Go do a job you can actually succeed at."

Hmmm, that is an interesting view of the scene, but that's not the vibe I got from it; for instance, the way the policeman practically gulped and turned around almost in shock after seeing Cap put the beatdown on the aliens, that didn't express "Yeah, I can see you're on our side now" - or something similar - to me.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Saw it on midnight 1st of May, and still managed to get it spoiled by a Facebook friend :smallmad:

Spoilers or not, it was an enjoyable film. The audience in the cinema seemed to love the action-comedy combo, which reminded me of the Iron Man movies. A bit jarring at times, but ultimately a fun comic-book movie.

I felt that Coulson's death added just the right amount of seriousness to the movie. The questionable way that Director Fury manipulated the situation was also a good touch. He gets things done, but he ain't a cape.

The final battle was just a great action scene. Everyone kicked ass, even Hawkeye and Black Widow. The Hulk was very popular with the cinema audience; I suppose he's just entertaining to watch.

My problems? The nuke. I get that shadowy councils are supposed to be jerks, but idiots? There's an open portal to enemy forces of unknown number; nuking the city won't necessarily destroy the tesseract, shielded as it is, and it definitely won't do much to the enemies waiting in space. Selvig was their best bet for understanding the portal and he would been killed in the blast.

Sending the nuke through the portal, as Iron Man did, made 100 times more sense.

About Captain America persuading the cop: I felt it was more like, "I'm not some idiot cosplayer. I'm on your side, I can kick alien ass, please take my advice seriously cause I really don't have the time to persuade you". The cops were out of their depth; Cap needed to get them moving with some semblance of order and the alien beatdown scene was the fastest way for him to establish his credentials with them.

[Cheesegear]

That didn't bother me. What bothered me was the way Cap convinced the officer to help - or rather, the way he didn't convince the officer, the policeman simply saw him kicking alien behind and obeyed out of... Well, basically, fear. I expect better from a movie which has as one of its themes that "good, old-fashioned heroism is exactly what the world needs".


Well, try to see the situation from the policeman's perspective. Suddenly, this shield-carrying guy in a spangly outfit runs up to them and starts giving out what is essentially sound tactical advice. Their first reaction is absolutely correct - they have no idea who this guy is and why does he want them to go off the streets to help people in the buildings stay out of the fighting.

But...It's Captain. America. That 'shield carrying, spangly outfit man' is a national icon. Sure, in our world, something like that would make no sense. But it's not the real world. This is the Marvel Universe where Agent Coulson basically hero-worships the guy and so does nearly the entire country. The policeman not taking orders from him makes about as much sense as Stark insulting him to his face.

I mean, not taking orders from Thor, or Widow or Hawk might make sense, since they're not exactly authority figures, and most of the world probably wouldn't know that they existed. But...Cap? I'm with Troubadour on this one.

[Sean Mirrsen]

But...It's Captain. America. That 'shield carrying, spangly outfit man' is a national icon. Sure, in our world, something like that would make no sense. But it's not the real world. This is the Marvel Universe where Agent Coulson basically hero-worships the guy and so does nearly the entire country. The policeman not taking orders from him makes about as much sense as Stark insulting him to his face.

I mean, not taking orders from Thor, or Widow or Hawk might make sense, since they're not exactly authority figures, and most of the world probably wouldn't know that they existed. But...Cap? I'm with Troubadour on this one.Indeed, it's Captain "Punch-Hitler-In-The-Face" America. Hero! Of World War II. And comic books. Haruspex_Pariah explained it better than I did. You see him on the street, your first thought will be "points for authentic outfit, but what the hell is this cosplayer doing here?". Because as far as all the world sans SHIELD knows, the Cap is dead, or at least gone. Him needing to establish authority via asskicking was a very necessary scene, because it shows that it's really him, not some random guy in a spangly outfit.

Side note: Firefox spellchecker says "spangly" is actually a word. Never would've thunk it.

[Saph]

Just got back from seeing it here in the UK!

Short review: it was excellent. Don't agree with Cheesegear's criticisms at all - I found it lots of fun and the dialogue very well done. I was worried that Whedon would make the superheroes act too much like Angel/Buffy - he didn't. They were played off against each other very well.

Spoilers below:

Loki's beatdown at the hands of the Hulk was absolutely hilarious. By this point in the movie I and most of the rest of the audience were just SO sick of listening to Loki talk. I was really hoping they'd just kill him, but I guess comic leads aren't allowed to die.

The interplays between the individual heroes were nicely done. Stark/Banner was good, and so was Iron Man/Cap and Natasha/Hawkeye. They each brought out interesting traits in each other.

Excellent action sequences - we really got to see every member show off their stuff. And no shaky-cam, yay!

I actually liked Thor much better in this movie than in his own one. In his origin story he came off as too much of a favoured-son-jock. I like him much better now that he's grown up a bit.

The one thing I hated - killing off Agent Coulson. :smallfrown: He was my favourite character - the ordinary agent who didn't have the super-abilities everyone else got but got the job done anyway. The worst part is that Joss Whedon claimed in interviews that Coulson would survive the film - either he was lying or it was VERY well hidden.

[Androgeus]

Iron Man/Stark
:smallconfused:



The worst part is that Joss Whedon claimed in interviews that Coulson would survive the film - either he was lying or it was VERY well hidden.

I guess Fury's lie about the cards is enough of a door to bring him back through, but if that's true they really should have shown him again

[SoC175]

The one thing I hated - killing off Agent Coulson. :smallfrown: He was my favourite character - the ordinary agent who didn't have the super-abilities everyone else got but got the job done anyway. The worst part is that Joss Whedon claimed in interviews that Coulson would survive the film - either he was lying or it was VERY well hidden.well it wouldn't suprise me if we see him come back in avengers 2, just leaving the infirmary or healing tank or whatever else they have on their ship

[The Troubadour]

well it wouldn't suprise me if we see him come back in avengers 2, just leaving the infirmary or healing tank or whatever else they have on their ship

I really hope he doesn't come back, otherwise his death will lose all of its dramatic appeal. And it was one of the few Whedon-directed/Whedon-conceived deaths that was well done and wasn't gratuitous!

[Wardog]

Indeed, it's Captain "Punch-Hitler-In-The-Face" America. Hero! Of World War II. And comic books. Haruspex_Pariah explained it better than I did. You see him on the street, your first thought will be "points for authentic outfit, but what the hell is this cosplayer doing here?". Because as far as all the world sans SHIELD knows, the Cap is dead, or at least gone. Him needing to establish authority via asskicking was a very necessary scene, because it shows that it's really him, not some random guy in a spangly outfit.

Side note: Firefox spellchecker says "spangly" is actually a word. Never would've thunk it.

I agree.
To me, the look on the cop's face wasn't so much fear ("Gulp! This guy could kick my ass! I'd better do what he says!") but awe ("Oh, my! This guy can curbstomp the aliens we can barely hold the line against!").

Before that curbstomping, they would probably have been thinking "What's this guy dressed like a superhero doing here, and who does he think he is ordering us around?" After, they would be thinking "This guy is a superhero. He handle the aliens, and he knows what needs doing. We should follow his directions."

[Dragonus45]

I really hope he doesn't come back, otherwise his death will lose all of its dramatic appeal. And it was one of the few Whedon-directed/Whedon-conceived deaths that was well done and wasn't gratuitous!

I think his survival is going to involve skrulls, since thanos is defenitly a Third movie kind of a villian. I think that the individual movies are all going to have hints of something wrong, leading into a secret invasion esqu plotline.

[Suteinu]

I saw it a little less than 4 or 5 hours ago, and it may be my new favorite movie of all time. This from a life-long Star Wars (origional trilogy) fan, who attended teh '77 showing (OK, I was 1 yr old, but my parents brought me anyway). Wheedon was the perfect director for this character driven, CG enhanced cinimatic gem, the characters were each given their due (as were their relationships w/ each other). The only one I worried about at first was Hawkeye, and I'm pleased with the outcome.

Darkwing Duck allusion: "Put out the Loki, put out the Loki!":smallbiggrin:

[DiscipleofBob]

Saw a midnight showing of it last night, and while this might be partially the post-movie high, this very well may be my personal favorite movie (if not at least superhero movie).

Everything, just, everything was made of pure awesome.

Kudos Mr. Whedon, getting a good movie that incorporates Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, the Hulk, and Sam Jackson cannot be easy.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Darkwing Duck allusion: "Put out the Loki, put out the Loki!":smallbiggrin::smalleek: Oh gods, I'll never be able to see that scene in any different way now... and the guy doing it is green too, and in shorts...

"Hey, Hulk! Let's pretend Loki is on fire!" :smallbiggrin:

[huttj509]

So, about the "face off antagonizing each other" scene...

It seemed to me that Loki was influencing them through the STAFF. Toning up their anger, suspicion, and other negative character traits.

The scene as it cut to various heroes kept showing the staff and glowing gem, culminating in "put the spear down" which Banner had picked up without even knowing it. Heck, how did Loki plan to make Banner hulk out? Maybe his staff was planned to be involved.

Heck, I'd need to rewatch it to see if there were any subtle cues, but maybe his reveal to Black Widow was on purpose, because her coming in and wanting to get Banner out of his lab sure calmed everything down, right?

[DiscipleofBob]

So, about the "face off antagonizing each other" scene...

It seemed to me that Loki was influencing them through the STAFF. Toning up their anger, suspicion, and other negative character traits.

The scene as it cut to various heroes kept showing the staff and glowing gem, culminating in "put the spear down" which Banner had picked up without even knowing it. Heck, how did Loki plan to make Banner hulk out? Maybe his staff was planned to be involved.

Heck, I'd need to rewatch it to see if there were any subtle cues, but maybe his reveal to Black Widow was on purpose, because her coming in and wanting to get Banner out of his lab sure calmed everything down, right?

Yeah, definitely the staff. The slow close-up on the glowing, humming staff, the camera angle turning the whole room upside-down, Banner accidentally picking up the staff, Loki was forcing tensions to run high to make Banner hulk out.

However, I doubt the reveal to Black Widow was on purpose, I just don't think there was much Black Widow could do at that point since everyone was pissed off at each other by that point.

[Soras Teva Gee]

So, about the "face off antagonizing each other" scene...

It seemed to me that Loki was influencing them through the STAFF. Toning up their anger, suspicion, and other negative character traits.

The scene as it cut to various heroes kept showing the staff and glowing gem, culminating in "put the spear down" which Banner had picked up without even knowing it. Heck, how did Loki plan to make Banner hulk out? Maybe his staff was planned to be involved.

Heck, I'd need to rewatch it to see if there were any subtle cues, but maybe his reveal to Black Widow was on purpose, because her coming in and wanting to get Banner out of his lab sure calmed everything down, right?

I know I instantly leaped to the conclusion that...

...Loki's staff was rigged to shoot Banner up with Gamma rays. That's a fairly reliable method of inducing a Hulk out.

However I was wrong and think the plan was always what we more or less saw. While Hulk was a part of the plan he clearly wasn't all of it and lets face it the only real trigger was the explosion. Make Banner think life is in danger and boom!

I think Black Widow simply didn't get it all and Loki's whole divide and conquer was more of extra bonus option... the Plan was always just to distract SHIELD from the Cosmic Cube preparations with himself and then take out Fury and co. I don't think Loki ever really took the Avengers seriously as a threat.

[thompur]

Saw it today and loved it. Definatly how a superhero movie should be done.

There was one bit that had tears of laughter rolling down my face though PUNY GOD

OOHHH! Is that what he said? Everybody in the theatre, including me, was laughing so hard over it, nobody understoodwhat he said. Thanks, Parra!:smallbiggrin:

[CoffeeIncluded]

Just came back with my friends. The film was excellent, and what made it even better in a way was that the entire theater was filled to bursting with my classmates, hyped-up, half-drunk college students who had just finished our last day of classes. Really added to the atmosphere.

[Mauve Shirt]

Rated NC-17 on Cybertron for graphic depictions of violence against machines! Really grand movie, featuring nonstop fighting, glorious action and great lines from great characters. More thoughts in the morning.

[Dienekes]

So I saw it and I really enjoyed it. Not perfect, but definitely enjoyable.
I thought the humor worked, this wasn't a broody comic movie, this was a fun and wild comic movie, and that tone was maintained throughout the flick.

I like that they balanced the characters very well, with Hulk getting some of the best moments in my opinion "Puny god" definitely got the loudest laughter. I love that they emphasized Capt's tactical skills, and that last half hour was very well done. Personally I've always felt that no fight scene should really be more than 5 minutes, 10 minutes at most. Any longer and it feels unnecessary and often poorly paced. But somehow the incredibly long ending fight worked.

And what the hell man? Why'd they kill Coulson? Coulson was awesome.

Now the flaws, a lot of which are nit-picky.
Costumes: Somehow, the Captain America movie made the Captain America suit look at least decent, this one looked like rather cheap spandex. Also, I've said so since I first started reading Thor comics years ago, Loki's antlers look dumb. They still look dumb. At least they're only present in about 5 scenes.

I have no idea why Thor decided to straight up attack the Captain. Was he trying to kill the man? That seemed really out of character for Thor. And on that note, why was Captain America so upset that SHIELD was designing weapons. He's a soldier from WWII, who was essentially an attempt to make the first super weapon, I think he'd understand the need for making further weapon advancements.

Also, the thing with the nuke. No one could be that dumb. Hell, when they announced that particular plot point I actually said at the screen "send the nukes into the hole" any strategist could have figured that out. (As an aside, how would a nuke work in outerspace? I'm generally curious about this) I also hate that the nuke turned off the chitauri, this may just be but I dislike this troup in general, but at least it can almost make sense if they're robots or something. Chitauri in the comics and the movie do not give any indication that they would work that way.

[Xondoure]

There have been days where I have railed against Joss Whedon with the best of them. The later seasons of Buffy killed part of my soul, and his obsession with character death can be quite overzealous. All of this and more is forgiven. Because he made this movie, and in doing so became god.

My only complaint with the entire movie was Loki vs. Hulk. Not that it wasn't hilarious, but that there should have been more before that. As soon as he started monologuing I was convinced he had cast an illusion. Loki is smarter than that. It had to be a trick, keep the Hulk distracted enough to get away. Having the Hulk swipe the Hologram before lashing out at the real Loki would have been a nice touch as it wouldn't have completely devalued Loki as a schemer and a threat while still having the end result of him lying broken on the floor of Stark's office.

Best moment... Well, there were a lot of funny ones, and all of them have a special place. But the old man who stood up, as cheesy as it was, hit a pretty powerful chord.

[Mauve Shirt]

This movie was basically every "What would happen if this Avenger fought that Avenger?" question answered. :smallbiggrin:
I actually kind of like this Bruce Banner better than Edward Norton. Norton has this way of looking like everything he says is sarcastic. Watching the Hulk actually Hulk out productively was fun. I liked Hawkeye, and how you got his and Black Widow's backstory without having to actually hear their backstory.
Greatest lines include "That guy's playing Galaga!", "I got that reference! :smallbiggrin:" and of course "Puny god!"

[Zen Monkey]

You've angered one other person...

(chant it together now)

His name was Phillip Coulson
His name was Phillip Coulson
His name was Phillip Coulson

[Mauve Shirt]

ALSO, did anyone else giggle a little when Victor (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2222175/) showed up during the "final" battle?

[Randomatic]

My only complaint with the entire movie was Loki vs. Hulk. Not that it wasn't hilarious, but that there should have been more before that. As soon as he started monologuing I was convinced he had cast an illusion. Loki is smarter than that. It had to be a trick, keep the Hulk distracted enough to get away. Having the Hulk swipe the Hologram before lashing out at the real Loki would have been a nice touch as it wouldn't have completely devalued Loki as a schemer and a threat while still having the end result of him lying broken on the floor of Stark's office.

That was an illusion of Loki monologuing. It looked like the Hulk reached out to his right and grabbed an invisible Loki, instead of being distracted by his illusion. Which makes it hilarious that the Hulk was the only character in the movie that didn't get fooled by that trick.

[Zevox]

Just got back from it. Theater was packed, much to my surprise. Maybe it's just because I usually go to matinees, but I haven't been in a theater anywhere near that full for a long time.

Spoiler-free opinion: it's quite good. Snappy dialogue and writing, good action, surprisingly good balance of each character. Loki makes a great villain throughout, probably more so than he did in Thor's movie. The aliens were meh, but they provide good action at the end, so they serve their purpose I suppose. Relatively little in the way of character development, but four of them have had their own movies for that already anyway.

Spoilers:
Minor complaints:

The three "normal" (or just barely superhuman in Cap's case) characters did feel rather less useful during the final action sequence. I mean, Thor, Hulk, and Iron Man are taking down those leviathans or whole groups of aliens at once, while the other three are just kind of whittling away at the aliens one by one. That was kind of unavoidable though given the power gap between the characters I suppose.

I don't like Cap's outfit. I said after seeing some trailers that it looked like someone cosplaying as Cap rather than actually looking like Cap, and that's still true. I think it's the mask/hood - I didn't have that issue when he wasn't wearing that. Easily overlooked though, particularly since Cap isn't exactly one of my favorite superheroes anyway (I didn't bother to see his movie).

Loki's brainwashing being reversed by a simple knock to the head felt a tad weak to me.

The deployment of Iron Man's mark 7 armor when he fell out of his building was a bit too over-the-top for my taste.

How did Thor get to Earth with the Bifrost destroyed anyway? Loki made some remark about it, but I didn't quite catch it, and they didn't bother to give it more than that one line.

The ship that the nuke hit just happening to control the aliens on Earth seemed a tad bit too convenient to me.

Trying to make it look like Tony had died at the end there was a bit of a waste, given we know they have a third Iron Man movie planned.

I'm assuming from that extra scene with Thanos that they're planning an Avengers 2? Surprising, given how hard it must to be to have so many main characters to use/major actors to pay. I'll go see it though. I hope they keep whoever wrote this one on board for it.
Zevox

[Soras Teva Gee]

Spoilers:
How did Thor get to Earth with the Bifrost destroyed anyway? Loki made some remark about it, but I didn't quite catch it, and they didn't bother to give it more than that one line.

Zevox

To answer you question there, THE Wizard did it, or more seriously...

...Odin did it with Dark Energy somehow. Presumably using the underlying principles they used to for example build Bifrost in the first place. It just isn't practical. But Odin is the original wandering wise old wizard so I stand by my response.

He also evidently sent his ravens along, same scene has two fly by.

[Seerow]

So having just watched the movie earlier today I've decided.

They totally advertised this movie all wrong. They advertise it as an adventure movie, it's actually clearly a comedy. I mean I've seen movies billed as comedies that didn't have the audience laughing half as much.

In particular the scene where Loki is ranting about how he won't be bullied then gets smashed by the Hulk had the whole audience laughing long and loud enough I missed the next couple of lines.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

why was Captain America so upset that SHIELD was designing weapons. He's a soldier from WWII, who was essentially an attempt to make the first super weapon, I think he'd understand the need for making further weapon advancements.


Because that's exactly what Hydra had done. You know, that Nazi splinter group that he gave up his life to fight against? Yeah, they used weapons powered by the Tesseract, so I can see why that tactic would hit a soft spot with him. And he is all about protection, not attack, and at first sight, it seemed that SHIELD just wanted to be able to destroy things to gain power. I think it's perfectly in character for him to be mad about the weapons.

[Krade]

Two things:

"I know this shwarma place right down the street."
"We're not finished yet."
"Shwarma after, then"

and

Best after credits thing ever! Everyone piled out of the theater after the thing in the middle of the credits and it was just us (me+brother&friend) and three sitting in the row ahead of us that stayed and I'm really glad I did.

[Timeless Error]

I just got back from seeing this.

I thought it was fantastic. Yes, the humor was a bit overboard in some places, but mostly, it was fine. The entire theater was laughing when Hulk interrupted Loki mid-monologue, along with several other moments (I loved "he's adopted").

I thought they did an incredible job of balancing the roles of the characters. Captain America, especially, was handled very well, with him taking command in the final battle and giving everyone tactical advice. I felt that Hawkeye didn't contribute as much as the rest of them, but even he destroyed plenty of minions.

I've never heard of Whedon before, but apparently he's fairly controversial, and I can see why. However, I found most of the movie genuinely funny, but still serious at all the right times (with the possible exception of Hulk smashing Loki at the end). I think this is probably the best superhero movie I've ever seen.

[Dienekes]

Because that's exactly what Hydra had done. You know, that Nazi splinter group that he gave up his life to fight against? Yeah, they used weapons powered by the Tesseract, so I can see why that tactic would hit a soft spot with him. And he is all about protection, not attack, and at first sight, it seemed that SHIELD just wanted to be able to destroy things to gain power. I think it's perfectly in character for him to be mad about the weapons.

And the Nazi's were the first to use jets, and revolutionized rockets. If some evil guy invented and used guns it doesn't mean that no one is allowed to think "hey that's a good idea" and make their own. Hell, Rogers even used Hydra weapons a few times in his movie. I just don't see why a soldier, who himself was equipped with the best tech available to him wouldn't want his fellow soldiers given the best. Come on, this is the guy that was the tactical mind behind the Avengers. I guess I just suspected some practicality from him. Especially since Stark was working on understanding the Hydra weaponry during the Capt movie.

[Eldan]

Two things:

"I know this shwarma place right down the street."
"We're not finished yet."
"Shwarma after, then"

and

Best after credits thing ever! Everyone piled out of the theater after the thing in the middle of the credits and it was just us (me+brother&friend) and three sitting in the row ahead of us that stayed and I'm really glad I did.

Wait. There was another after-credits thing after the one in the middle? what was it?

[Anarion]

I just got back from seeing this as well. Fantastic movie, definitely one of the best superhero films in quite some time. Also had previews for Batman, new Spiderman, and Brave, all of which I want to see, so bonus points for knowing their audience.

I particularly loved Iron Man's scenes. Recruiting him with that three-way handoff and he complains about homework then later when he comes in and goes "didn't anyone else do the reading?" was spectacular.

I also liked that they did a couple things to make the bad guys actually seem powerful like immediately shooting down the jet during the large battle, which both shows that they're really threatening and that Iron Man is just that fast and strong.

Agree with Zevox that Cap's costume wasn't so great. Hawkeye's costume also seemed a bit off to me, like he's just wearing a tight black t-shirt almost.

Shwarma place at the end of all the credits was hilarious. It's funny too because I think about half the audience didn't get what Iron Man was talking about and just thought it was them in a random cafe or something.

To answer you question there, THE Wizard did it, or more seriously...

...Odin did it with Dark Energy somehow. Presumably using the underlying principles they used to for example build Bifrost in the first place. It just isn't practical. But Odin is the original wandering wise old wizard so I stand by my response.

He also evidently sent his ravens along, same scene has two fly by.

Nice catch on the ravens. I noticed that scene and just didn't remark on them at all. Makes much more sense why Thor just popped in given that setup.

[TheEmerged]

So, just saw it myself.

Executive Summary: See. This. Movie.

Non-spoilery mini-review: I actually liked John Carter of Mars better, but that's not fair since I'm pretty much the target audience for JCoM. This was an enjoyable film that had the audience laughing and cheering. I will be seeing it in theatre again, and I will be buying the DvD.

As to the audience? The last time I had to sit that far forward in a movie due to the crowd, I went to Burger Chef afterwards. In other words, *decades*. Wasn't even that bad for the LotR trilogy.

First, I would like to congratulate Kenneth Tigar (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0863024/) for his delivery of by-far the most dramatic line\moment in the movie. I know some people will read that as a criticism, but it's not. Keep in mind -- this is MARVEL. The bickering and wise-cracking is part of the original, pre-Iron Age image for them and I rather liked having it back.

By far the most popular moment in the theatre when I saw it. "Hulk? Smash." There was a literal roar in the crowd. I also experienced the effect where people were laughing so hard at Hulk's "Droopy" treatment of Loki that the line following couldn't be heard. To be honest, I remember going into the movie people were worried that it was going to be Iron Man & the Other People. I think Hulk stole the movie in virtually every scene he was in. Having said that, most of the others got their due as well. I was a little disappointed in Widow & Hawkeye, but not enough to warrant a complaint.

My personal favorite line? Double-spoilering since it skirts a board rule.

When Cap is fixing to follow Thor & Iron Man out of the aircraft and he's told "these are gods out there." His response drew a pumped fist and an out-loud thank you from me -- "There's only one God, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that."

I'll second the complaints about Cap's outfit being a downgrade in this movie.

I saw both "post-credit" scenes thanks to a long-established family rule about doing so out of respect for the people listed there. Also, a link for the curious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawarma).

[Krade]

Wait. There was another after-credits thing after the one in the middle? what was it?


Shwarma place at the end of all the credits was hilarious. It's funny too because I think about half the audience didn't get what Iron Man was talking about and just thought it was them in a random cafe or something.

What he said. It's just about 30 seconds of them eating at the shwarma (I don't even know what that is) place Iron Man was talking about after he regained consiousness. Still dirty and beat up. No dialog or anything. Just eating.

[leafman]

And the Nazi's were the first to use jets, and revolutionized rockets. If some evil guy invented and used guns it doesn't mean that no one is allowed to think "hey that's a good idea" and make their own. Hell, Rogers even used Hydra weapons a few times in his movie. I just don't see why a soldier, who himself was equipped with the best tech available to him wouldn't want his fellow soldiers given the best. Come on, this is the guy that was the tactical mind behind the Avengers. I guess I just suspected some practicality from him. Especially since Stark was working on understanding the Hydra weaponry during the Capt movie.

I think the point Cap had was that SHIELD lied to him about what they were doing. You mention the nazis were the first to use jets (not really the first, just the first to get a working prototype in the air) and revolutionizing rockets, I'm guessing your intent there is to point out all of the non-military uses that have come about since? SHIELD said they were working on using the Cube as a power source for unlimited free energy for the world, which would follow the same idea. Hydra used it as a power source for weapons, someone (Howard Stark?) noticed that and asked how they could apply that power source to something more peaceful. Instead, SHIELD said "naw, thats a silly idea, let's build more and better weapons". I can see how Captain America might be upset.

On unrelated notes, I heard Antman and Wasp were supposed to cameo or be referenced in this movie. Did they? I think I missed it if they did. And people are saying Red Skull was with Thanos in the mid credits scene, I've rewatched it several times and I don't see him, are people confusing him with the Chitauri leader talking to Thanos?

[Dumbledore lives]

What he said. It's just about 30 seconds of them eating at the shwarma (I don't even know what that is) place Iron Man was talking about after he regained consiousness. Still dirty and beat up. No dialog or anything. Just eating.

That's so much bull, a large majority of our theater stayed afterwards, and they didn't show that, just cut to black and all the lights went up. I guess it's possible it's because we're in New Zealand. It's also not available on youtube, this upsets me.

[huttj509]

I saw both "post-credit" scenes thanks to a long-established family rule about doing so out of respect for the people listed there. Also, a link for the curious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawarma).


I generally stay for the credits, in part because I wanna see where it was filmed (my brain plays 'spot northern (or south-ish, for Thor) New Mexico' since I grew up there). Was walking down after the mid credit thing, noticed a New Mexico credit, and stayed to see where it was because nothing jumped out at me.

Only reference I saw was to the Albuquerque studio...maybe the indoor/plane scenes were shot there?

Personally, someone didn't miss much if they missed the tag. It's kinda amusing in a meta-sense.

[Zevox]

You know, something that I really like about this movie that only strikes me in hindsight?
No romance subplot! There's minor references to the romances from the other movies (or at least Thor's and Iron Man's, I wouldn't recognize them if there are for Cap and Hulk), and a bit of teasing about whether there's anything between Black Widow and Hawkeye, but that's it. It's so refreshing to have a superhero movie - or really just about any form of media - without one of those.
Zevox

[Krade]

That's so much bull, a large majority of our theater stayed afterwards, and they didn't show that, just cut to black and all the lights went up. I guess it's possible it's because we're in New Zealand. It's also not available on youtube, this upsets me.

I understand that they filmed it after the premier. So it wasn't on any of the reels that were released before the American release.

[MammonAzrael]

You know, something that I really like about this movie that only strikes me in hindsight?
No romance subplot! There's minor references to the romances from the other movies (or at least Thor's and Iron Man's, I wouldn't recognize them if there are for Cap and Hulk), and a bit of teasing about whether there's anything between Black Widow and Hawkeye, but that's it. It's so refreshing to have a superhero movie - or really just about any form of media - without one of those.
Zevox

That is an excellent point. I completely agree. :smallsmile:

[Xondoure]

You know, something that I really like about this movie that only strikes me in hindsight?
No romance subplot! There's minor references to the romances from the other movies (or at least Thor's and Iron Man's, I wouldn't recognize them if there are for Cap and Hulk), and a bit of teasing about whether there's anything between Black Widow and Hawkeye, but that's it. It's so refreshing to have a superhero movie - or really just about any form of media - without one of those.
Zevox

Only real cap moment (or lack thereof) was when Steve meets Natasha and as they pan away Romanov's eyes quickly check out Rogers. It was just a little thing on the side of the main action that was occurring at the time but it made me chuckle.

[Dienekes]

You know, something that I really like about this movie that only strikes me in hindsight?
No romance subplot! There's minor references to the romances from the other movies (or at least Thor's and Iron Man's, I wouldn't recognize them if there are for Cap and Hulk), and a bit of teasing about whether there's anything between Black Widow and Hawkeye, but that's it. It's so refreshing to have a superhero movie - or really just about any form of media - without one of those.
Zevox

I actually noticed this in the theater, and oh boy did that make me happy.

[Derthric]

I went.
I saw.
I loved it.

minor whining
There were times when I could feel the film's length. Not any one specific spot but I knew I had been there over 2 hours.

The magic alien off button was a bit annoying.

That insolent cop. When Captain America tells you to do something you do it and you sing "America **** yeah" while doing so dang it!

It was a fun movie that didn't sacrifice quality of story and character for the sake of the Pew Pew. It really felt like a great pay off from the films leading up to it, because we knew who the players were we don't need the angsty "am I a hero" scenes or heavy romance subplots about picking the LI or the doing their duty. The whole point was basically to delight in seeing these heroes do what they were meant to do, pound faceless mooks then eat some shwarma.

[Mando Knight]

Saw the movie today. Now I need to try shawarma...

[Mauve Shirt]

Shawarma is delicious, in case you are wondering.

[Mando Knight]

Shawarma is delicious, in case you are wondering.

Seeing as it's slow-roasted seasoned meat sometimes served as a sandwich/wrap, I can understand. I just haven't had it before...

[Daftendirekt]

ALSO, did anyone else giggle a little when Victor (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2222175/) showed up during the "final" battle?

Yes! Glad I wasn't the only one to notice this.

Saw the movie last night, and EFFING LOVED IT. Definitely beat Dark Knight as best superhero movie in my book, and easily one of my favorite movies ever. I guess it helps that I'm a Whedon fan (used to be enough of one to maybe be considered 'fanboy' -- at least for Firefly -- but I've grown out of that. It is definitely cool to see what he's capable of with a huge budget. I enjoyed every last minute of this movie. I stayed long enough to see the first after-movie-special, but didn't realize there'd be a second and left after that one.

I went into this with an Iron-Man-and-friends mentality, having not seen Captain America or Thor (didn't much care, although I did try catch up before seeing it. However, the DVDs I rented didn't work! :smallfurious: ). The movie definitely changed my mind. Every single one of them was so much fun to watch, and it was pretty cool that the non-supers contributed in meaningful ways.

The action was amazing (whoever mentioned that one long scene of the fight, panning between every single one of them... yes, epic as hell), and I have to add my theatre to the bunch that laughed so loud at Hulk pounding Loki that nobody heard the line afterwards.

[Admiral Squish]

If anything, this movie was TOO GOOD. So awesome, every time I think about it, I get so excited I can't put my thoughts to words properly. I will, however, make an attempt.

HOLY CRAP.

I loved ever second. My brother and I squealed like little girls at least twice during the movie. One when the helicarrier took off. Then when hulk facepunched the worm thing.

One thing I really appreciated on the director's part? No shaky camera action scenes. I am SO TIRED of Michael Bay action scenes where it's like watching it from inside a blender. Clear shots that let you actually see what's going on. I was so, so grateful.

Hulk in all his glory! That was AWESOME. With the facepunch, and then him interrupting loki, it was just... epic. I'm gonna use the word. It warrants it.

I was honestly concerned as to how they were gonna snap hawkeye out of it for the final showdown.

The enemy off button did bug me. I was fairly certain they were at least partially alive, not just robots.

[Tvtyrant]

I rather liked the movie. It had some of the best action scenes of any movies in the genre (Thor vs. Hulk and Black Widow vs. Hawkeye were my favorites). The lack of a romantic plot let the plot stay on the radar constantly, which was all to the best. I hope they make another.

[Eldan]

Pretty damn good actually. But someone said the length was felt. Same for me, the first act could have been tightened a bit, perhaps. It took too long to get the heroes together and get the action on screen, I think.

[willpell]

Thor: Again, perfect. Thor is a demigod. He had the best solo movie, he's the best in the Avengers. The problem is, if he's that powerful, why isn't Loki?

Thor was a pretty good movie, but if you want to claim it was better than Iron Man (the first one) you will get no agreement from me. I don't even like Iron Man as a character but that movie was freaking perfect.


The problem is that I'm now resigned to the fact that like Ghost Rider, Hulk will never have a good movie.

"The Incredible Hulk" was reasonably good, although you're right that it's unlikely it'll ever be improved on; a character as introspective as Bruce Banner doesn't sell tickets the way a mindless SFX romp of Hulk throwing tanks, that's just how Hollywood works. Ditto for Ghost Rider, he's a highly philosophical character and he just doesn't work on any but the shallowest level if you can't have expository text that reveals the unspoken motives of the characters.


The fact is, Hulk isn't interesting. At least, not to me. Hulk is {Marty Stu}. I may be biased though, Bruce Banner is one of my favourite characters in the Marvel universe.

I don't know your exact reasons for liking Banner, and I've never been very fond of him myself (though this might just be the period of the few Hulk books I've read - late '90s or early '00s stuff which was all about various espionage agencies competing over how to control the Hulk with drugs or something while Banner is this sleazy-looking guy in a trucker cap trying to avoid them; it probably wasn't the character's finest era). But it seems to me as though, narratively, what makes Bruce Banner work as a character is exactly that the Hulk is a Boring Unstoppable (Chaotic Neutral) Hero. He's an elemental force of destruction, and the only way to stop him from smashing everything in his path is to keep him locked away completely, so Banner has the classic "struggle against your inner darkness" bit going in superhero form, and the less godlike-unbeatable the Hulk is, the less drama there is from Banner struggling to avoid becoming him. (Again, Hollywood and to some extent even Marvel are required to fail at this by the need to generate sales; the public is Only Here For Godzilla, so playing the Hulk "right" and making him almost never actually show up is not really an option. The Ultimates did have a spot-on take on the Hulk, where he's actually a monster instead of just a standard superbrick with an intractable personality, and more or less did it right for a while.)


That movie was the worst pile of pretentious, slavish devotion to dictating the comic verbatim on screen that I've ever seen. It was 2 and a half hours of pure boredom interspaced by the occasional glimmer that the director had any idea he was making a movie and not a book report.

You're kidding, right? They completely changed the central premise of the villain's main plot (as they should have, given the difference in media). Sure the overall story works out about the same, but they certainly weren't fixated on getting every detail right.

[Eldan]

Pretty damn good actually. But someone said the length was felt. Same for me, the first act could have been tightened a bit, perhaps. It took too long to get the heroes together and get the action on screen, I think.

[willpell]

so what film did you want to see before Avengers 2

The only Avengers I have any special desire to see are Ant-Man, Scarlet Witch, and possibly The Vision if he's handled well (and it'd be nice if they can do a good Ultron). The "core" Avengers are very boring characters to me, though not unsalvageably so as the Iron Man and Thor movies proved.

[Iskandar]

Well then, I was fairly sure that somewhere in the long trek to make all these movies, that they would screw up somewhere.

Apparently not.


strange, but it seems that a lot of my favorite moments in this movie were two word lines.
"He's adopted?"
"...Hulk,smash"
"Puny god"

That, and Loki trying to do that staff brainwash thing to Stark, and failing.



I'll definitely see it again.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Re: Alien "off switch":
You know, my initial thoughts on it didn't involve the "keystone army" concept at all. It wasn't necessarily the control ship that got blown up, it's just the sheer fact that it was a nuclear explosion. One of the big things a nuke generates (other than the obvious massive blast) is an electromagnetic pulse. And the chitauri mooks were shown to be rather dependent on cybernetics. The portal was high enough in the sky to cover a decent chunk of the city with the pulse, and the only unshielded electronics were the chitauri machines and any civilian tech in the area, none of which were really shown working afterwards.

It's still an overused and rather cheap trope, but at least in this case it was somewhat plausible.

[Mystic Muse]

I had two problems with this movie. Other than that, it was everything I could have asked for and more.

Also, my uncle worked on it a bit. Not a really big role, but he did get in the credits at the end (The much longer ones)

My problems (Spoilers)

1. The mind control. As anybody who really knows me, mind control is a major squick button for me, and it made me uncomfortable for a good portion of the movie.
2. Phil never got his cards signed before he died.:smallfrown:

[Mauve Shirt]

I'm going to rewatch this movie about 6 times. You are all invited to join me. You have to provide your own transport to MD.

[DiscipleofBob]

The only Avengers I have any special desire to see are Ant-Man, Scarlet Witch, and possibly The Vision if he's handled well (and it'd be nice if they can do a good Ultron). The "core" Avengers are very boring characters to me, though not unsalvageably so as the Iron Man and Thor movies proved.

I have to agree I'd want to see Ant-Man, if for no other reason than they can eventually bring Ultron in as a villain. I understand that they couldn't fit him in this movie though.

Quiksilver and Scarlet Witch would be very difficult to pull off since they've never even been mentioned in the X-Men movies and the whole mutant aspect of Marvel-verse has stayed mostly separate from the Avengers in the movie-verse.

I think Ms. Marvel's a distinct possibility. They've already got the alien invasion arc going, so it's not a huge stretch from there.

But I think the hero they need to pull off next (and hopefully for the Avengers) is Black Panther.

As an interesting note, I went back to see it with some friends in 3D. This being my first actual 3D movie, it was the first time I got to see all the action coming at slightly to my left (I was sitting on the far, far right).

[Chen]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in a lot of places

Coulson's death. I'm not exactly sure they actually killed him off. Fury tells that lieutenant that he used the cards that were in his locker to give the team a "push". It'd be fairly easy for them to write him back in and consider that Fury lied about the whole thing to push them.

[Runestar]

Was anyone here hoping for a small spiderman cameo? I dunno why, seeing all the chaos towards the end, it seemed so natural to have spidey just swing in, save a few civvies from falling debris with his webbing and maybe even take on a few mooka. :smalltongue:

[Zevox]

Was anyone here hoping for a small spiderman cameo? I dunno why, seeing all the chaos towards the end, it seemed so natural to have spidey just swing in, save a few civvies from falling debris with his webbing and maybe even take on a few mooka. :smalltongue:
Since someone else (Sony I think) owns the rights to making Spider Man movies at the moment, that was quite impossible.

Zevox

[Talya]

I have an important question:

Yesterday at about 5pm Eastern Daylight Savings Time (-6 GMT), Box Office Mojo had reported The Avengers weekend domestic take (from May 4th to May 6th) was $200,300,000US, setting a new all-time opening weekend record.

Note that at this point, Sunday's sales weren't even all purchased yet (it was still 2PM on the west coast), let alone calculated and reported. What the hell is with the box-office sales reporting?

[Seerow]

Since someone else (Sony I think) owns the rights to making Spider Man movies at the moment, that was quite impossible.

Zevox

Which is really sad. Spidey is one of the best Marvel heroes, and they were literally right in his neighborhood. Makes you wonder what could have kept him away.

[Androgeus]

Which is really sad. Spidey is one of the best Marvel heroes, and they were literally right in his neighborhood. Makes you wonder what could have kept him away.

Peter Parker doesn't have spidey powers in Marvel Cinematic Universe perhaps

[Zevox]

Which is really sad. Spidey is one of the best Marvel heroes, and they were literally right in his neighborhood. Makes you wonder what could have kept him away.
Meh, doesn't bother me. I don't really like Spider Man, so him being in the Avengers wouldn't do anything for me.

Zevox

[JeffreyToTheMax]

I'm going to rewatch this movie about 6 times. You are all invited to join me. You have to provide your own transport to MD.

Hey, I live in MD and haven't seen the movie yet. Maybe we should get a GiTP group together.

[DiscipleofBob]

Which is really sad. Spidey is one of the best Marvel heroes, and they were literally right in his neighborhood. Makes you wonder what could have kept him away.

Careful, once you open up that Pandora's Box you get possibilities for all sort of Marvel cameos: Spider-Man, Daredevil, X-Men, even the Fantastic Four. Then movie Human Torch meets Captain America and everyone's brain explodes.

[Karoht]

Just saw the film yesterday.

And I have nothing but praise for it. Literally.
Black Widow and Hawkeye's relationship was solid. It may not be romantic, it might not be anything more than a pair of battle buddies who've been to hell and back together, it might just be a remarkably deep friendship. Whatever it is, I like it. I like it because it remains largely undefined. I like it because it isn't the typical hollywood love interest bulltonky.


But I do have one very important question about this film.

Why now? Why did we have to wait so long for a comic book film THIS GOOD.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming on Iron Man/2 or Captain America or Thor or even the Incredible Hulk. But I just don't understand why we had to wait so long for hollywood to get it right. I don't understand why we didn't see this film maybe a decade ago.

A few possibilities I've mulled over. Spoilered for Length:
1-Tech. Nope, the tech has been there for just about a decade now, if not longer.
2-The setup films. Well, to be honest, you could greatly enjoy Avengers and not watch any of the setup films. Part of why I think the film works so well.
3-The director/script. As far as I am aware, directors are not these 100% unique beings. While I can't name off other directors capable of pulling off, and while I'm not bashing Joss Whedon (because he did a phenominal job), I just don't think that his input is 100% unique to the point where he was the linch-pin in making this film come together. Same with the script really.
4-The Actors. Okay, this one gets shakey, as the actor really does sell the role. At the same time, no actor is indispensible. All the actors involved did an astonishingly good job, but the actors themselves are not what make the film 'come together' as it were. They are responsible for the performance, but not things like the direction and script.
5-The Prequels. As I pointed out, one could watch the Avengers without seeing the setup films and probably be okay. Or with just a dose of comic knowledge. But even without those films, this film still works. It doesn't rest itself on the prequels, it really is it's own film with only tidbits borrowed from the rest, rather than whole chunks.
6-Marvel Studios/Disney. Maybe, just maybe, these guys were just so commited to the project from day one, that it pushed the project into being. Maybe that's just it. Maybe no other studio/producer was committed enough to make the film happen, and to make it the success that it was. This is going to contradict my previous statements, but I'll say it anyway. Maybe, just maybe, the studio had the insight to garner really great actors into these rolls, garner an excellent director, and then ensure that they were all commited to the project both personally AND via contract...
Maybe?
7-Paramount VS Fox. Light and Darkness. I wondered for a bit about the Xmen VS the Avengers, and what made them so drastically different. Why Xmen couldn't be as good as the Avengers back then?
Xmen is made by Fox, it's darker and edgier. It makes a slight social comment (mutant VS human is a parable to the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's, and now it is considered a parable to another similar social conflict today). It might even be considered a 'smarter' film in these regards, maybe not. But lets face it, audiences usually don't like feeling lectured, and very rarely does it work to have the audience analyse themselves (or hint that they should) in order for a message to have any meaning.
Avengers and the prequels are made by Paramount/Marvel Studios/Disney. They are lighter, they never talks down to the audience, in some ways the films do not make a smart comment or a social comment. They aren't dumbed down or anything, they are just focused differently. Rather, they upsell the potential for mankind to be awesome, as opposed to focusing on it being narrow minded or biggots like in Xmen. Maybe, because of that difference, that air of inspiration and heroic spirit, is what draws the audience in just that little bit more, makes you more interested in the characters and seeing them at their full potential.


Or hey. Maybe I am wrong and it's just the sheer amount of explosions. Who knows?


Going to see it again in about a week or two. Worth it. Very much.

[Kato]

Careful, once you open up that Pandora's Box you get possibilities for all sort of Marvel cameos: Spider-Man, Daredevil, X-Men, even the Fantastic Four. Then movie Human Torch meets Captain America and everyone's brain explodes.

Yeah... I kind of felt like the Stark Building was a rebuild of the... whatever the FF's home's name was... Aaaah, whatever.

Finally got around to seeing it (and a weekend later reporting)
Herman dub, alas, went with friends who wanted to have an easy time.

And... well, it wasn't bad. For what it was. It was no Shakespeare or anything but Whedon did a really good job (considering I had already forgotten he made it until the credits)
It was fun enough and I really didn't expect much character depth or anything. Me myself I don't care much for Captain America's patriotism or the images of NY that totally didn't resemble 9/11. (Don't, Kato, don't go there...)
But Stark had his snarky one-liners, Thor had some good lines, even Banner was decent enough, in my opinion.
Action was solid though I'm among the people who really don't get much out of the 3D and I could have saved some bucks on that.
Best moment for me and apparently most of the audience?

Loki: "ENOUGH! You are, all of you, beneath me. I am a god you dull creature, and I will not be bullied by..." Followed by... ouch.


Regarding Phil...

Well, I didn't care much for him since I know hardly any of the other movies.
But I didn't like the scene. Much to clicheed for Whedon. Phil announces himself, Loki doesn't finish the job, Phil fires and it does... nothing to the plot. Lame.


And regarding Loki... he was done well enough. Nothing too great, nothing too terrible... I liked his scene with Johanson, that was pretty well done, imo.

[Maxios]

I saw it yesterday, and loved it. It is now my second favorite superhero movie (right behind Watchmen). I have never been to a movie where people clapped. Peope clapped like four times while I was watching The Avengers.
I think my eyes were playing tricks on me, but I could have sworn I saw a cameo appearence of a certain orange, rocky Fantastic Four member in the background. Did anyone else think they saw The Thing?

[Karoht]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in a lot of places

Coulson's death. I'm not exactly sure they actually killed him off. Fury tells that lieutenant that he used the cards that were in his locker to give the team a "push". It'd be fairly easy for them to write him back in and consider that Fury lied about the whole thing to push them.

And considering it was Coulson's idea? The paramedics could have saved him, squirreled him away, and Fury could have made a bogus claim about the paramedics having 'called it.'
Entirely believable.

[DiscipleofBob]

Question, and I apoligize if this was answered/supposed to be obvious...

Was the blue gem in Loki's scepter one of the Infinity Gems?

You know, considering who we saw at the end of the movie.

[Soras Teva Gee]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in a lot of places

Coulson's death. I'm not exactly sure they actually killed him off. Fury tells that lieutenant that he used the cards that were in his locker to give the team a "push". It'd be fairly easy for them to write him back in and consider that Fury lied about the whole thing to push them.

Given that this is clearly Joss Whedon at work...

... I have no doubt Coulson is dead.

The cards from the locker was the dirty trick and a way to make a sublte commentary on Fury having the same blood on his hands. Because his messing with the Cosmic Cube started the mess in the spiritual sense, and in the literal sense since he bloodied the cards with Coulson's blood.

Now is it possible the guy could be resurrected somehow. Hey this is comics. I favor brain scanned onto an android myself. At a more meta level this is unlikely Coulson is the perfect character to kill off in a movie like this. Mauve shirt, original to the movieverse, Joss Whedon.... we should have expected it.

[Chen]

Why now? Why did we have to wait so long for a comic book film THIS GOOD.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming on Iron Man/2 or Captain America or Thor or even the Incredible Hulk. But I just don't understand why we had to wait so long for hollywood to get it right. I don't understand why we didn't see this film maybe a decade ago.


Movies are great because of any combination of good writer/director/actor/effects. It's pretty damn subjective. I mean I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who would consider The Dark Knight (also a comic book movie) to be better than The Avengers. Asking this question is like asking the question in 2000 as to why it took so long to make such a good Roman gladiator movie.

[TheEmerged]

But I do have one very important question about this film.

Why now? Why did we have to wait so long for a comic book film THIS GOOD.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming on Iron Man/2 or Captain America or Thor or even the Incredible Hulk. But I just don't understand why we had to wait so long for hollywood to get it right. I don't understand why we didn't see this film maybe a decade ago.

A few possibilities I've mulled over. Spoilered for Length:
1-Tech. Nope, the tech has been there for just about a decade now, if not longer.
2-The setup films. Well, to be honest, you could greatly enjoy Avengers and not watch any of the setup films. Part of why I think the film works so well.
3-The director/script. As far as I am aware, directors are not these 100% unique beings. While I can't name off other directors capable of pulling off, and while I'm not bashing Joss Whedon (because he did a phenominal job), I just don't think that his input is 100% unique to the point where he was the linch-pin in making this film come together. Same with the script really.
4-The Actors. Okay, this one gets shakey, as the actor really does sell the role. At the same time, no actor is indispensible. All the actors involved did an astonishingly good job, but the actors themselves are not what make the film 'come together' as it were. They are responsible for the performance, but not things like the direction and script.
5-The Prequels. As I pointed out, one could watch the Avengers without seeing the setup films and probably be okay. Or with just a dose of comic knowledge. But even without those films, this film still works. It doesn't rest itself on the prequels, it really is it's own film with only tidbits borrowed from the rest, rather than whole chunks.
6-Marvel Studios/Disney. Maybe, just maybe, these guys were just so commited to the project from day one, that it pushed the project into being. Maybe that's just it. Maybe no other studio/producer was committed enough to make the film happen, and to make it the success that it was. This is going to contradict my previous statements, but I'll say it anyway. Maybe, just maybe, the studio had the insight to garner really great actors into these rolls, garner an excellent director, and then ensure that they were all commited to the project both personally AND via contract...
Maybe?
7-Paramount VS Fox. Light and Darkness. I wondered for a bit about the Xmen VS the Avengers, and what made them so drastically different. Why Xmen couldn't be as good as the Avengers back then?
Xmen is made by Fox, it's darker and edgier. It makes a slight social comment (mutant VS human is a parable to the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's, and now it is considered a parable to another similar social conflict today). It might even be considered a 'smarter' film in these regards, maybe not. But lets face it, audiences usually don't like feeling lectured, and very rarely does it work to have the audience analyse themselves (or hint that they should) in order for a message to have any meaning.
Avengers and the prequels are made by Paramount/Marvel Studios/Disney. They are lighter, they never talks down to the audience, in some ways the films do not make a smart comment or a social comment. They aren't dumbed down or anything, they are just focused differently. Rather, they upsell the potential for mankind to be awesome, as opposed to focusing on it being narrow minded or biggots like in Xmen. Maybe, because of that difference, that air of inspiration and heroic spirit, is what draws the audience in just that little bit more, makes you more interested in the characters and seeing them at their full potential.



1 - tech has been there. Tech and the training/skill at using it without making the tech the point of the film is a more recent development. The tech needed to be invisible before it could do the job well.
2/5 - here I have to disagree with you. Sure, a comic fan like you or I would know their origins without the setup films, but if the numbers are to be believe we're something like 0.001% of the potential audience. Having the setup films allowed us to get to the real story without having to do the origins.
#3 I'll come back to you
4 - The actors can be hit or miss. Christopher Reeve for example was an excellent Superman but a lousy Clark. George Clooney was in fact part of the problem in Batman\Robin. I think part of the reason we've had trouble getting a new Wonder Woman is that Lynda Carter knocked that ball so far out of the park it'll be tough to measure up. Getting back to Marvel, it seems to me these actors enjoy these characters and that can make a big difference.

3/6/7 are where part of the kicker is for me. Production always lags behind the art. I think part of the problem with the transition from comics to other media is that there's a time gap -- almost a generation gap -- where the people who want to make these movies aren't old enough to actually make them yet. We're just now getting the writers/directors/production people that have been in comics since it started growing up into a spot to make those movies, 25-30 years later.

[Mando Knight]

Careful, once you open up that Pandora's Box you get possibilities for all sort of Marvel cameos: Spider-Man, Daredevil, X-Men, even the Fantastic Four. Then movie Human Torch meets Captain America and everyone's brain explodes.

So, we'd get... The Avengers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Avengers_members). Huh.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Question, and I apoligize if this was answered/supposed to be obvious...

Was the blue gem in Loki's scepter one of the Infinity Gems?

You know, considering who we saw at the end of the movie.

That's what people are saying. Also, I heard that it wasn't Thanos in the mid-credits spoiler. Or rather, they are referring to Thanos, but the actual person on the throne is the Red Skull, who is apparently Thanos' next/current general. Just rumors and hearsay, but I've only seen the movie once so I can't confirm.

Minor nitpicks, because overall I really enjoyed the movie.

I feel like Thor and Captain America were really side-lined by the Hulk and Iron Man, especially Iron Man. I don't think it was intentional with the Hulk, it's just...the Hulk stole every scene he was in, transformed or not. Thor in particular seemed short-changed on scenes and lines, barring a single conversation with Loki. He did get to fight the Hulk though, I just wish we had seen more of that.

Captain on the other hand...I feel he got short-changed all around. In the final battle he, regretably, couldn't do that much against the Chiatari from the ground, but more emphasize could have been placed on his tactical insight and leadership abilities. I loved the scene where he dove into a building to save all the people, I just wish he'd gotten more scenes like that. Out of battle wise...Tony Stark plays a more important role story wise and gets, in my opinion, a scene or two that Captain America could have filled better. Such as confronting Loki on Stark tower. That's a job for the leader of the team, not the wise-ass. Or a scene convincing Banner to come back would have done wonders, instead of Tony Stark just assuming he'd come back and being right.

Just feels like the two got more bit roles then Hulk and Iron Man.

My only other nitpick is...too much comedy. Don't get me wrong, I laughed my arse off and enjoyed the movie, but I think it struck the wrong balance between humor and drama. The most tense scenes of the movie was when the Hulk was chasing Black Widow and Coulson's death. No, I'm not counting the nuke scene, because even that was interrupted by humor. You can have drama/tension without going the dark/grim/realistic route of like...The Dark Knight, there's a happy medium between the two of them that I think the Avengers missed. It's a minor nitpick, but it's one that worries at me and makes me hope they've found the golden area by the time of Avengers 2.

Also, on other Avenger movies...

There's going to be an Iron Man 3, Captain America 2, Thor 2, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, and...there was one more, but I forget the hero from it.

[Dienekes]

Minor nitpicks, because overall I really enjoyed the movie.

I feel like Thor and Captain America were really side-lined by the Hulk and Iron Man, especially Iron Man. I don't think it was intentional with the Hulk, it's just...the Hulk stole every scene he was in, transformed or not. Thor in particular seemed short-changed on scenes and lines, barring a single conversation with Loki. He did get to fight the Hulk though, I just wish we had seen more of that.

Captain on the other hand...I feel he got short-changed all around. In the final battle he, regretably, couldn't do that much against the Chiatari from the ground, but more emphasize could have been placed on his tactical insight and leadership abilities. I loved the scene where he dove into a building to save all the people, I just wish he'd gotten more scenes like that. Out of battle wise...Tony Stark plays a more important role story wise and gets, in my opinion, a scene or two that Captain America could have filled better. Such as confronting Loki on Stark tower. That's a job for the leader of the team, not the wise-ass. Or a scene convincing Banner to come back would have done wonders, instead of Tony Stark just assuming he'd come back and being right.

Just feels like the two got more bit roles then Hulk and Iron Man.

My only other nitpick is...too much comedy. Don't get me wrong, I laughed my arse off and enjoyed the movie, but I think it struck the wrong balance between humor and drama. The most tense scenes of the movie was when the Hulk was chasing Black Widow and Coulson's death. No, I'm not counting the nuke scene, because even that was interrupted by humor. You can have drama/tension without going the dark/grim/realistic route of like...The Dark Knight, there's a happy medium between the two of them that I think the Avengers missed. It's a minor nitpick, but it's one that worries at me and makes me hope they've found the golden area by the time of Avengers 2.

Also, on other Avenger movies...

There's going to be an Iron Man 3, Captain America 2, Thor 2, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, and...there was one more, but I forget the hero from it.

I agree on some of these. Personally, I think Iron Man did fine threatening Loki, but I would have made some other changes to get Cap and Thor more involved as characters rather than just pieces.

For Cap, I remember one comic specifically had the Hulk say that Rogers was the first person to really treat him like a person. Now, I doubt that's actually accurate considering Hulk was in the team before Cap, but it would have been a good scene for Cap, and would explain Hulk's character development. What I like about this movie is that it gave Hulk a personality besides a mindless rage monster. But, he just sort of suddenly joins the team at the end after fighting everything he could the last time we saw him.

Seeing the Hulk go rage and maybe turn on the team before Cap talks him down would be a good scene that shows not just a good display of Caps abilities but gives the Hulk development. We saw Banner come to terms with his power, but the Hulk is "the other guy" he needs some a moment to develop as well.

Now Thor, I don't know good character moments for him, as I don't know too much about Thor as a character.

[Karoht]

@Black Panther
I think there is only one person on earth who can play him.
The Old Spice Guy.
And he already knows pretty much every martial art on earth and has blackbelts in all of them. So he's good to go.

In all seriousness, I think it would be a good casting decision, but I'm sure there are others, I just can't think of them. I can think of a few poor choices, but I feel no need to list them.

I would greatly enjoy seeing Black Panther in film. And added to the Avengers lineup.


As for others they could add to the lineup, I would love to see some kind of gizmoteer introduced, maybe just to SHIELD, to explain who made Hawkeye's bow and arrows and custom rig, who made Black Widow's stuff, and maybe even see this person decked out in cool toys just taking the bad guys to school. The pain school.

[DiscipleofBob]

That's what people are saying. Also, I heard that it wasn't Thanos in the mid-credits spoiler. Or rather, they are referring to Thanos, but the actual person on the throne is the Red Skull, who is apparently Thanos' next/current general. Just rumors and hearsay, but I've only seen the movie once so I can't confirm.



Checked the inevitable screencaps posted online. DEFINITELY not Red Skull, though I too am surprised he wasn't mentioned or made an appearance.

What I'm kind of hoping for the second movie: Supervillain team-up under Thanos's command: Loki (Thor), Red Skull (Captain America), maybe say Mandarin survived from the first Iron Man movie (Iron Man), Abomination/Leader (Hulk), and then if we really want to fill out the rest of the Linear Guild roster some, Madame Hydra (Black Widow) and Taskmaster (Hawkeye).

[The Glyphstone]

Checked the inevitable screencaps posted online. DEFINITELY not Red Skull, though I too am surprised he wasn't mentioned or made an appearance.

What I'm kind of hoping for the second movie: Supervillain team-up under Thanos's command: Loki (Thor), Red Skull (Captain America), maybe say Mandarin survived from the first Iron Man movie (Iron Man), Abomination/Leader (Hulk), and then if we really want to fill out the rest of the Linear Guild roster some, Madame Hydra (Black Widow) and Taskmaster (Hawkeye).


Mandarin was never in Iron Man. There was an easter egg with the Ten Rings emblem on some of the terrorist supplies, but Mandarin himself hasn't shown up (and the director, I believe, has said he thinks Mandarin is a racist villain and inappropriate for modern films).

[Tyndmyr]

Fantastic. Everything about it was wonderful.

Joss Wedon will be hailed by movie directors as their god, and frankly, I'm ok with that.

[Karoht]

Point of Interest for Avengers 2.
Look up the Infinity Gauntlet, Prop.

It may very well be a fake, but it was supposedly made for the first Avengers film. It's also rumored to be a prop for Iron Man 3, but since they are covering the Extremis Arc I don't expect to see it there.
Still, people are calling it's existance essentially a 'smoking gun' that...
Thanos is the villain for Avengers 2


Shwarma, anyone? :smallwink:

[DiscipleofBob]

Mandarin was never in Iron Man. There was an easter egg with the Ten Rings emblem on some of the terrorist supplies, but Mandarin himself hasn't shown up (and the director, I believe, has said he thinks Mandarin is a racist villain and inappropriate for modern films).

:smallconfused:

I could've sworn they called him by name as the leader of the Ten Rings organization which kidnapped Stark in the first place. He was the red herring villain before Obadiah Stane's true colors were revealed.

*checks Wikipedia*

Well, it was definitely the Ten Rings organization, but Mandarin wasn't mentioned. The leader was just some terrorist who had a ring to reference it.

Other information:


The Mandarin is referenced in the 2008 live action Iron Man movie via the name of the terrorist group called "The Ten Rings", who holds Tony Stark captive in the beginning of the film. Raza, the leader of the Ten Rings, has a single red ring that he rubs with his other hand. He also makes a reference to Genghis Khan when speaking to Stark and Yinsen. Director Jon Favreau revealed that their version of the Mandarin in the live action Iron Man movie series "allows us to incorporate the whole pantheon of villains".[28]
In Iron Man 2, a Ten Rings operative goes to Russia to assist Ivan Vanko in his vendetta against Tony Stark. When he is arrested in Monaco after his first confrontation with Stark, The Ten Rings and Justin Hammer break Vanko out of prison.[29]
After the successful release of Iron Man 2, Favreau stated that he hoped to include the Mandarin himself in an Iron Man 3 project.[30] Neonpunch reported in April 2012 that The Mandarin will be a group led by Ben Kingsley in Iron Man 3. [31]

So, apparently we're getting Mandarin in the future for Iron Man 3, or at least a version.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Checked the inevitable screencaps posted online. DEFINITELY not Red Skull, though I too am surprised he wasn't mentioned or made an appearance.

What I'm kind of hoping for the second movie: Supervillain team-up under Thanos's command: Loki (Thor), Red Skull (Captain America), maybe say Mandarin survived from the first Iron Man movie (Iron Man), Abomination/Leader (Hulk), and then if we really want to fill out the rest of the Linear Guild roster some, Madame Hydra (Black Widow) and Taskmaster (Hawkeye).

It may be Thanos, I don't read many comics actually so I'm not entirely sure what Thanos looks like. All I know is when I first saw the guy, my first thought was 'oh crap, it's the Red Skull!'. I still hold out hope that the Red Skull is Thanos' next general.

[Zevox]

What I'm kind of hoping for the second movie:

Supervillain team-up under Thanos's command: Loki (Thor), Red Skull (Captain America), maybe say Mandarin survived from the first Iron Man movie (Iron Man), Abomination/Leader (Hulk), and then if we really want to fill out the rest of the Linear Guild roster some, Madame Hydra (Black Widow) and Taskmaster (Hawkeye).
I sure hope not. That'd definitely be way too many major characters for one movie. Just make Thanos a big enough threat on his own and you should be good.
Zevox

[Soras Teva Gee]

Shwarma, anyone? :smallwink:

Totally.

Say anyone predicting in uptick in Shwarma restaurants business anyone?

[Rae Artemi]

There's going to be an Iron Man 3, Captain America 2, Thor 2, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, and...there was one more, but I forget the hero from it.

I'm fairly certain that the other film in the works is Ant-Man. Either that or something with Iron Fist/Power Man. It's been a while since I paid attention to the upcoming movies aside from the one this thread is about.


@Black Panther
I think there is only one person on earth who can play him.
The Old Spice Guy.
And he already knows pretty much every martial art on earth and has blackbelts in all of them. So he's good to go.

No, no, no, no. While Isaiah would probably make a very good Black Panther, I would much rather see his fanboy dreams come true and watch him put his heart and soul into being the very best Luke Cage he could ever be. I would give all of my meager dollars to see that, in fact.

[DiscipleofBob]

No, no, no, no. While Isaiah would probably make a very good Black Panther, I would much rather see his fanboy dreams come true and watch him put his heart and soul into being the very best Luke Cage he could ever be. I would give all of my meager dollars to see that, in fact.

In the Thor movie, there was big, musclebound unnamed SHIELD agent who managed to wrestle Thor around with his bare hands. I'd like to believe that was Luke Cage and that he'll show up again, maybe in Avengers 2, but not likelty I'm sure.

[MammonAzrael]

That's what people are saying. Also, I heard that it wasn't Thanos in the mid-credits spoiler. Or rather, they are referring to Thanos, but the actual person on the throne is the Red Skull, who is apparently Thanos' next/current general. Just rumors and hearsay, but I've only seen the movie once so I can't confirm.

I've only encountered this rumor third-hand. I have yet to speak with someone who believes that wasn't Thanos, let alone thought it was the Red Skull. I'd build an argument in favor of Thanos, but since I honestly cannot see how someone could think the person in the chair that smiles at the thought of "courting death" and sports a chin like his could be anyone but Thanos.

As for the Mind Gem powering Loki's spear...I think it'd be a cool tie in and there is plenty that could be interpreted that way, but the ending of the movie removed it as possible. The spear is powered by the tesseract, which is why it was able to shut down the portal. IIRC the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Gems have no direct connection to one another. While it's certainly possible that the spear is powered by the Cube but still incorporates the Gem is fully possible, it isn't quite as clean. The the Infinity Gauntlet have the Gems installed in it's Thor cameo?

[Karoht]

*checks Wikipedia*
So, apparently we're getting Mandarin in the future for Iron Man 3, or at least a version.

Yeah, when I heard that Ben Kingsley is on deck for Iron Man 3, I was pleasantly surprised, and immediately thought of Mandarin. Sure enough, that appears to be the plan.

I'm really wondering how Mandarin is going to work with the Extremis Arc.

[The Glyphstone]

Well good, I guess I misread/misheard. Mandarin is the Iron Man villain, it always seemed a crime that he didn't get screen time.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Yeah, when I heard that Ben Kingsley is on deck for Iron Man 3, I was pleasantly surprised, and immediately thought of Mandarin. Sure enough, that appears to be the plan.

I'm really wondering how Mandarin is going to work with the Extremis Arc.

There's a story where the Mandarin attempts to release Extremis across the globe but I haven't read that. However the original story really just uses a throw away villian so change the story to be the Mandarin stole and used Extremis and boom there you go.

Though I'm not comfortable with the idea in the movie since presumably this means Tony would use it which was never a development I cared for. Felt like "ooh a suit of power armor isn't cool enough anymore" when I read it. Tony has always had a seemless interface with the armor and the movies even more so. No need to make trans-humanism lite thank you very much.

[Karoht]

There's a story where the Mandarin attempts to release Extremis across the globe but I haven't read that. However the original story really just uses a throw away villian so change the story to be the Mandarin stole and used Extremis and boom there you go.

Though I'm not comfortable with the idea in the movie since presumably this means Tony would use it which was never a development I cared for. Felt like "ooh a suit of power armor isn't cool enough anymore" when I read it. Tony has always had a seemless interface with the armor and the movies even more so. No need to make trans-humanism lite thank you very much.

Bass ackwards but easy way they could do this.
Mandarin. Head of the Ten Rings, guy with rings. Right.
Ten Rings has been doing all kinds of naughty stuff. In this case, funding a recreation of the Super Soldier Program spawned by enemies of SHIELD/Remnants of HYDRA.
Extremis Test Subject number 1 produces a creature that looks awefully similar to Fin Fang Foom.
Iron Man + War Machine fight their way through a boat load of other nasty test subjects. Fight Mandarin.
Done.

As for using Extremis... gawd I hope they don't have him do that.

[SMEE]

Question, and I apoligize if this was answered/supposed to be obvious...

Was the blue gem in Loki's scepter one of the Infinity Gems?

You know, considering who we saw at the end of the movie.

It was the Mind gem, which also happens to be blue. Hence, he was able to mind control other beings.

Also, the enemy army was probably undead, as Thanos is known for being a high grade necromancer. This also explains why they all failed when the mothership was torn asunder.



I've only encountered this rumor third-hand. I have yet to speak with someone who believes that wasn't Thanos, let alone thought it was the Red Skull. I'd build an argument in favor of Thanos, but since I honestly cannot see how someone could think the person in the chair that smiles at the thought of "courting death" and sports a chin like his could be anyone but Thanos.

As for the Mind Gem powering Loki's spear...I think it'd be a cool tie in and there is plenty that could be interpreted that way, but the ending of the movie removed it as possible. The spear is powered by the tesseract, which is why it was able to shut down the portal. IIRC the Cosmic Cube and the Infinity Gems have no direct connection to one another. While it's certainly possible that the spear is powered by the Cube but still incorporates the Gem is fully possible, it isn't quite as clean. The the Infinity Gauntlet have the Gems installed in it's Thor cameo?

The prop was built with the gems, but then they cut it out of the final release, probably to not say that Thanos was defeated by Odin before.

[erikun]

Well, I just finished watching the movie.

I thought it was pretty average. I mean, it had some good action and camera dynamics. You definitely get what you're expecting, following movies like Iron Man and Thor. The idea to have all the other movies lead up to Avengers was definitely a brilliant idea, as it meant each character had 2+ hours of backstory and this movie didn't need to waste time introducing anyone.

On the other hand, I can't really say much beyond being a decent action movie with a few funny moments. Heck, I only chuckled a few times, and only those were from Hulk.

Overall, not bad, but nothing amazing. Pretty much what I expected as a followup to the various Marvel movies.

[Mando Knight]

Overall, not bad, but nothing amazing. Pretty much what I expected as a followup to the various Marvel movies.
Reminds me of this (http://superheroes.memebase.com/2012/05/06/superheroes-batman-superman-just-okay)...

[Rae Artemi]

In the Thor movie, there was big, musclebound unnamed SHIELD agent who managed to wrestle Thor around with his bare hands. I'd like to believe that was Luke Cage and that he'll show up again, maybe in Avengers 2, but not likelty I'm sure.

I seriously hope that wasn't Power Man, considering Thor was depowered at the time, and there's no way that Luke would lose to Thor minus the god powers.

[Dr. Bath]

Point of Interest for Avengers 2.
Look up the Infinity Gauntlet, Prop.

It may very well be a fake, but it was supposedly made for the first Avengers film. It's also rumored to be a prop for Iron Man 3, but since they are covering the Extremis Arc I don't expect to see it there.
Still, people are calling it's existance essentially a 'smoking gun' that...
Thanos is the villain for Avengers 2


Shwarma, anyone? :smallwink:

It was made for Thor, I'm pretty sure. Since it was in Odin's treasure cabinet. (sans gems as far as I recall)

[Chen]

I sure hope not. That'd definitely be way too many major characters for one movie. Just make Thanos a big enough threat on his own and you should be good.
Zevox

Regarding a sequel
I have to figure if its Thanos in the sequel, it'll be about him going around collecting the gems for the Infinity Gauntlet. Presumably they either won't let him put it together or they will and some deus ex machina will save them all. When he had the full gauntlet together in the comics he annihilated half the population of the universe (I believe) and then proceeded to kill a ton of super heroes in combat when he decided to cut himself off from all the gems together to give them a "chance". While it would be somewhat entertaining to watch it wouldn't make a popular movie to kill off all the favourite good guys.

[Tyndmyr]

Point of Interest for Avengers 2.
Look up the Infinity Gauntlet, Prop.

It may very well be a fake, but it was supposedly made for the first Avengers film. It's also rumored to be a prop for Iron Man 3, but since they are covering the Extremis Arc I don't expect to see it there.
Still, people are calling it's existance essentially a 'smoking gun' that...
Thanos is the villain for Avengers 2


It was actually in thor, so yeah.


I sure hope not. That'd definitely be way too many major characters for one movie. Just make Thanos a big enough threat on his own and you should be good.
Zevox

Thanos can kill worlds with a thought. Making him a big enough threat is...not hard.

Presumably, he will be collecting gems. The staff, with mind gem, is on earth. So, that sets up the final battle nicely. He'll grab the gauntlet from Asguard earlier, giving our heroes their initial in to figure out what's going on.

[TSGames]

Regarding a sequel
I have to figure if its Thanos in the sequel, it'll be about him going around collecting the gems for the Infinity Gauntlet. Presumably they either won't let him put it together or they will and some deus ex machina will save them all. When he had the full gauntlet together in the comics he annihilated half the population of the universe (I believe) and then proceeded to kill a ton of super heroes in combat when he decided to cut himself off from all the gems together to give them a "chance". While it would be somewhat entertaining to watch it wouldn't make a popular movie to kill off all the favourite good guys.
I agree and I wouldn't worry about any heroes dying. With the number of successful franchises tied to the Avengers movies, it will be impossible to kill off any heroes that aren't introduced in Avengers 2 for the sole purpose of being cannon fodder.

[Karoht]

@Infinity Gauntlet
Yeah, that is going to be challenging at best.
The good news is that they have 3 more films at least to start setting up the big bad prior to Avengers 2, or at least, I hear that is the plan. Not counting any new introduction films, of course. So maybe they will toss out a Chekov's Gun regarding the gauntlet in one of the upcoming films. Or maybe Stark will analyze some magical artifact (like a set of rings maybe?) and gleam some info that might be useful. Or maybe Thor will walk past the anti-infinity gauntlet in Odin's Treasure room. Heck, maybe Captain America might discover some property of Vibranium that might prove useful in this regard.

EDIT:
I am a colossal idiot some days.
They can just use the Cosmic Cube power against the Infinity Gauntlet. In the process it destroys them both, thus ending the saga of the Cosmic Cube as well.
I would bet real money that this is the plan.

[MammonAzrael]

Or maybe, if we do see a completed Infinity Gauntlet, they won't create some hokey McGuffin and instead Thanos' hubris will be his downfall. I can take or leave Nebula's involvement.

Honestly, while we have a decent shot at seeing an Infinity story, I don't think it's needed. Thanos is enough of a threat on his own without complete unlimited power. And we've seen him go after a Cosmic Cube as well, so he could do something like ransack Asgard, happen to pick up the gauntlet while his main objective is the Cube, and then Thor contacts Fury.

[Karoht]

Or maybe, if we do see a completed Infinity Gauntlet, they won't create some hokey McGuffin and instead Thanos' hubris will be his downfall. I can take or leave Nebula's involvement.

Honestly, while we have a decent shot at seeing an Infinity story, I don't think it's needed. Thanos is enough of a threat on his own without complete unlimited power. And we've seen him go after a Cosmic Cube as well, so he could do something like ransack Asgard, happen to pick up the gauntlet while his main objective is the Cube, and then Thor contacts Fury.

Entirely Plausible. I think it would take too much development to involve all the Infinity Gems and detail them properly, AND the gauntlet, and still have a seriously awesome villain story taking place.
Hubris to be the downfall. I like it. Sign me up.

[Z3ro]

Entirely Plausible. I think it would take too much development to involve all the Infinity Gems and detail them properly, AND the gauntlet, and still have a seriously awesome villain story taking place.
Hubris to be the downfall. I like it. Sign me up.

Too much time, like, say, three or four full-length movies leading into Avengers 2?

[Karoht]

Too much time, like, say, three or four full-length movies leading into Avengers 2?
They'll have to if that is in fact the plan.

The Gauntlet could also be just a reference. A red herring to keep us all guessing.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think that having Thanos beat the heroes in Avengers 2 and then having the real climax of the storylineon a third movie can work quite well. If it is managed well and we see some real fights that the Avengers could plausibly loose (IE not a Diabolus ex machina) and it would allow to introduce the gems and a new general for Thanos (Red Skull can definitely take this roll and I figured it was kind of given he would return).

[Karoht]

The ending of Captain America.
Where we see the kids playing in the streets.
This just occured to me.
There's no way to confirm this, but is one of them Agent Coulson?

[Talya]

There's no way to confirm this, but is one of them Agent Coulson?

I don't remember the scene, but I'd have to say no.

Steve Rogers' plane went down 70 years ago. Any kids alive then would be in their 70s or 80s now.

Steve Rogers was thawed out in the current time. Where Coulson is an adult.

In neither of those timeframes could coulson be a child. ;)

[The Glyphstone]

Maybe one of them is Coulson's father?

[Talya]

Maybe one of them is Coulson's father?

That's certainly possible. Howard Stark was a main character in the movie, after all. But this begs the question: Who cares about Coulson's father?

[Androgeus]

Who cares about Coulson's father?

Coulson I would hope.

[Traab]

I still hold out hope that this will lead to a dc universe version of these movies, that leads to the formation of the justice league. Ive always been a marvel reader, always. I almost never touched dc comics at all. But the idea of the justice league has always been an awesome one to me. Sort of a combination of the ultimate superhero team ever for members and sheer numbers, and a global network of superheroes so noone has to fight world ending threats alone anymore. They can contact the watchtower and get backup. All while staying in their own original groups or personal setups. Batman still prowls around gotham, superman still makes lex go red faced with rage, everyone does their own thing, then when the big threats show up, the call goes out and everyone gets together.

Anyways, I ranted a bit off topic there, basically, i figure that seeing how big of a commercial success the marvel movie series was, and the fairly huge popularity of the two flagship dc comics movie careers of superman and batman, that the license holders would seriously consider giving this a go. Whoever currently has movie rights to wonder woman, the flash, and one of the other big name members of the crew like the green lantern, should sit down together, and come up with a kickass movie series where each character gets their reboot origin movie with a tie in that leads them all together for the world threat that causes the justice league to form. Could be the thanagarians getting ready to destroy the world, could be darkseid and his army of parademons, could be Amazo for all I care.

[leafman]

I don't think a Justice League movie could really work. We'd have to be able to believe that Superman or Green Lantern couldn't handle the threat on their own and would need help from someone like Batman. If it were well written it might work, but I think it would require depowering the heavy hitters of DC so the non-powered heroes (Batman) would have something to do. In interest of not derailing this thread maybe we could start a new thread to discuss the the JL?

[Devonix]

I still hold out hope that this will lead to a dc universe version of these movies, that leads to the formation of the justice league. Ive always been a marvel reader, always. I almost never touched dc comics at all. But the idea of the justice league has always been an awesome one to me. Sort of a combination of the ultimate superhero team ever for members and sheer numbers, and a global network of superheroes so noone has to fight world ending threats alone anymore. They can contact the watchtower and get backup. All while staying in their own original groups or personal setups. Batman still prowls around gotham, superman still makes lex go red faced with rage, everyone does their own thing, then when the big threats show up, the call goes out and everyone gets together.

Anyways, I ranted a bit off topic there, basically, i figure that seeing how big of a commercial success the marvel movie series was, and the fairly huge popularity of the two flagship dc comics movie careers of superman and batman, that the license holders would seriously consider giving this a go. Whoever currently has movie rights to wonder woman, the flash, and one of the other big name members of the crew like the green lantern, should sit down together, and come up with a kickass movie series where each character gets their reboot origin movie with a tie in that leads them all together for the world threat that causes the justice league to form. Could be the thanagarians getting ready to destroy the world, could be darkseid and his army of parademons, could be Amazo for all I care.

Thats only from the DCAU Justice League though. The comics Justice League is usually just 7 or so members, usually the big guns of the DCU. There are lots of teams and the difference between them and the Marvel U is that they all usually work together amicably and call each other up to work together or just to stop buy and have a chilli cookout.

I would love a JLA JSA movie Where you have the old school superhero grandparents hanging out with Superman Wonderwoman Batman and the rest of the "Current Generation"

[Talya]

I don't think a Justice League movie could really work. We'd have to be able to believe that Superman or Green Lantern couldn't handle the threat on their own and would need help from someone like Batman. If it were well written it might work, but I think it would require depowering the heavy hitters of DC so the non-powered heroes (Batman) would have something to do. In interest of not derailing this thread maybe we could start a new thread to discuss the the JL?

Warner Brothers still holds the rights to all of those characters.

As for various power levels? When the world needs saving, they call the Justice League. When the Justice League needs saving, they call Batman.

[Zevox]

I don't think a Justice League movie could really work. We'd have to be able to believe that Superman or Green Lantern couldn't handle the threat on their own and would need help from someone like Batman. If it were well written it might work, but I think it would require depowering the heavy hitters of DC so the non-powered heroes (Batman) would have something to do. In interest of not derailing this thread maybe we could start a new thread to discuss the the JL?
Well, they managed to make Black Widow and Hawkeye seem not-useless in the Avengers, even with Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man around. I'd imagine a similarly talented writer could manage the Justice League.

Zevox

[Traab]

Warner Brothers still holds the rights to all of those characters.

As for various power levels? When the world needs saving, they call the Justice League. When the Justice League needs saving, they call Batman.

Or when its a world wide threat. Take a darkseid invasion for example. They could rewrite the episode Destroyer from that series where Darkseid shows up to conquer earth, sending in massive waves of parademons, setting up huge tunneling devices heading for the earths core, and shows up above the daily planet building where superman gets to deliver one of his most kickass speeches ever.


"That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."


— Superman, Justice League Unlimited.

He then proceeds to punch darkseid so hard im suprised he didnt explode from the impact. :p It was a cool episode too because of how it had cameos of pretty much everyone in the dc universe kicking ass and taking names. The inclusion of the bad guys joining up to help stop darkseid could be added or removed, it would likely work either way, but leaving them in would add to the clutter of the characters onscreen. Though I can see luthor going cowboy on darkseid with some sort of, "This is MY city, MY world! No one conquers it but ME!" type of speech as he starts shooting at darkseid. lol

[leafman]

Well, they managed to make Black Widow and Hawkeye seem not-useless in the Avengers, even with Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man around. I'd imagine a similarly talented writer could manage the Justice League.

Zevox

True, it worked for Avengers. But look at Superman, super speed, strength, intelligence and invulnerability, this guy needs a team for anything other than moral support? None of the Avengers possessed more than 2 of those powers at any one time. They needed their team mates to cover their weaknesses and they each had a role that they excelled at without too much overlap. The Justice League on the other hand has overlap everywhere. Justice League without Superman? Now we're getting somewhere, though we might still need to replace Aquaman since he ends up playing second fiddle to everyone while on dry land.

[Dienekes]

True, it worked for Avengers. But look at Superman, super speed, strength, intelligence and invulnerability, this guy needs a team for anything other than moral support? None of the Avengers possessed more than 2 of those powers at any one time. They needed their team mates to cover their weaknesses and they each had a role that they excelled at without too much overlap. The Justice League on the other hand has overlap everywhere. Justice League without Superman? Now we're getting somewhere, though we might still need to replace Aquaman since he ends up playing second fiddle to everyone while on dry land.

Justice League the Animated Series managed to pull off a balance remarkably well. Mind you by the end of the series they were making excuses to pile more and more awesome onto Batman (not that I'm complaining mind you). But just because you have Supes there that can fill any roll doesn't mean he has to.

To take the Avengers, we have Thor: who is nearly as strong as Hulk, can probably be more effective at range than Hawkeye with his lightning, can fly, and so on. But they made it work since they sent Thor and Hulk against the big targets and had then had the rest of the team do what they're best at.

In the Justice League Supes and Wonder Woman are your heavy hitters to be sent against the big strong tough targets. Green Lantern is utility, Martian Manhunter is your brains, Bats is your strategist, and Aquaman just has to be there being OUTRAGEOUS!

Also even reading the Justice League comics, there are a lot of problems that Supes can't solve by himself. Years and years of such problems. If you can't think of a way to showcase everyone, you're not trying hard enough.

[Barmoz]

This movie was pure awesome. I had to wait 5 days to see it due to work and a girlfriend who wanted to see it with me.

With regards to the loki / hulk scene that most people didn't get to hear Hulk say "Puny god" due to audience reaction the best part wasn't the Hulk's line, but Loki's quiet groaning in his body shaped floor imprint.

I can't even figure out my favorite parts yet, I'll have to see it again to get a handle on it. So many great scenes, and so many bones thrown to fans of the comics, without alienating anyone just coming for the movie. The only time I've seen a comic book movie hit home with non comics fans so strongly was the last two Batman movies, but they had to sacrifice a lot more of their "nerd cred" in order to do so.

Avengers managed to give me inside jokes but still give my girlfriend a throughly enjoyable movie. I can't think of specific examples, even though I know they exist, but the only thing I can think of that would relate would be watching a children's movie with a child, that had a lot of adult inuendos that the child just wouldn't process, but were placed to make the movie enjoyable to adults.

[Selrahc]

They'll have to if that is in fact the plan.

The Gauntlet could also be just a reference. A red herring to keep us all guessing.

Put one Gem in a minor supporting role in each of the movies upcoming, in the same way the Mind gem was in this movie. This familiarizes us with the powers, and gives a "show not tell" example of them in action, making them more "real" than just macguffins. In the hypothetical Infinity Gauntlet Avengers movie, introduce the remaining ones as already under Thanos's control, and have the first act be about him going and taking the other gems, displaying his powers.

[Devonix]

True, it worked for Avengers. But look at Superman, super speed, strength, intelligence and invulnerability, this guy needs a team for anything other than moral support? None of the Avengers possessed more than 2 of those powers at any one time. They needed their team mates to cover their weaknesses and they each had a role that they excelled at without too much overlap. The Justice League on the other hand has overlap everywhere. Justice League without Superman? Now we're getting somewhere, though we might still need to replace Aquaman since he ends up playing second fiddle to everyone while on dry land.

You don't need to tone down the heroes just make the threats bigger, everyone has a role but the team combination isn't just about the powers it's more about the symbols.

Remember DC = Symbols and Icons

Superman's flying around being the symbol of good and justice and the power in the service of those ideals

Aquaman's being the arrogent and powerful warrior king that he is

Wonderwoman Strength and determination and the magical universe

Martian Manhunter analytical reasoning and mystery with a side of alien wierdness and pyscic stuff

The Flash Speed and wonderment and good ole sience fun

Batman... I'm Batman

[Philistine]

I'm here to say I enjoyed the movie just as much, and maybe more, on second viewing. Also, I'd never seen a movie get a standing ovation before. (Which is insane, because who exactly do these people think is going to see and appreciate that they got to their feet? But, eh.)

A couple of comments, more about the discussion here than about the movie:
One: Fury never actually said Coulson was dead; all he ever said was down. And that a team of medics was already there. That could leave a door open for Phil to return... except then Hill should have mentioned it when she confronted Fury about the bloodied trading cards. Conceivably it could have been kept secret from her, too - but to what end?

Two: In the end titles, after the mid-credits scene, Alexis Denisov was credited as "The Other" in the cast list. My knowledge of all things comics is very limited (as my budget was during the formative years when I might otherwise have gotten involved in reading comics); is there a character by that name in Marvel lore? Or is that just a code name for one of the other possibilities previously mentioned here? Regardless, I look forward to seeing Denisov on screen - as Wesley, he was very nearly the only redeeming feature of Angel S4.

[Xondoure]

It's not power levels that is holding the Justice League back from getting made. It's the fact that DC is failing miserably at creating a successful shared movie verse. Basically, if the Green Lantern movie hadn't blown chunks, we might already be seeing this come together.

[Devonix]

It's not power levels that is holding the Justice League back from getting made. It's the fact that DC is failing miserably at creating a successful shared movie verse. Basically, if the Green Lantern movie hadn't blown chunks, we might already be seeing this come together.

yeah people keep mentioning Superman as making the rest of the entire DCU Superfluous when there are a million threats big enough for him to need help with. Superman is big and bad but he's not even the most powerful Hero in DC let alone the most powerful character.

He's hella smart, but there are smarter characters
Stronger than nearly everyone else but there are things strength cannot accomplish alone
Fast but cannot be everywhere at once.
He's commanded armies but still needs an army to lead. Please if they have a big fight scene with someone barking orders don't have Batman do it Have one of the characters that actually has more experience doing so for large groups like Green lantern, Wonderwoman, Aquaman or Superman.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Avengers managed to give me inside jokes but still give my girlfriend a throughly enjoyable movie. I can't think of specific examples, even though I know they exist, but the only thing I can think of that would relate would be watching a children's movie with a child, that had a lot of adult inuendos that the child just wouldn't process, but were placed to make the movie enjoyable to adults.So, it's a little like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic then? :smallbiggrin:

*dodges tomatoes, retreats into the Multiverse*

[JadedDM]

@Philistine

The Other was the strange robed guy who gave Loki the spear and at the very end, warned Thanos that messing with humanity would be like 'courting death.'

Whether he's a character from the comics or made up for the movies, though, I can't say.

[Tyndmyr]

Anyways, I ranted a bit off topic there, basically, i figure that seeing how big of a commercial success the marvel movie series was, and the fairly huge popularity of the two flagship dc comics movie careers of superman and batman,

You mean...of batman. Superman Returns was pretty weak. The older superman movies are a target of much mockery.

The reboot might be successful, but as of right now, superman is not particularly strong.

And green lantern? That movie was TERRIBLE.

[Dienekes]

You mean...of batman. Superman Returns was pretty weak. The older superman movies are a target of much mockery.

The reboot might be successful, but as of right now, superman is not particularly strong.

And green lantern? That movie was TERRIBLE.

Admittedly the older Batman films are target of much, much more mockery. Superman I and II are generally considered good or decent films.

Superman Returns is the problem. Poorly paced, dumb dialogue, and whoever thought it was a good idea for Superman to be an absentee father needs to be smacked upside the head with a bound copy of the entire line of Action Comics.

Now personally, if they were to make a Superman movie I'd ask for several things:
A script that takes it's subject respectfully if not always seriously. Humor is good, but I would have toned it down a bit from the Avengers. My standard would be the Captain America movie, there are some very funny scenes but at it's core it's respectful of a hero whose ideals largely are considered outdated.
A closer view of Clark Kent and his relationships with Jimmy and Lois
Speaking of, show Lois as she is in (some of) the comics. Lois has at times outsmarted Batman. Supes sees her as his equal, present her as such. If you have to save her, fine, do it once. That's it.
Please don't make Lex Luthor show pleasures like they've never known to 90 year old women. That was just dumb.
Speaking of villains, while Lex is awesome, give Superman someone to fight in his first outing. Give Lex a few movies to build as a credible intelligent threat. He loses impact if he's in every movie, and at the end of every movie he gets sent to jail.
Get an actor who actually can pull off looking like two different characters without makeup. Christopher Reeves actually did a decent job at this in the first movie, where his Clark appearance posture, expressions, and at times even height and body size look different than his Superman persona.

I'd probably think of more later.

[Tyndmyr]

Admittedly the older Batman films are target of much, much more mockery. Superman I and II are generally considered good or decent films.

Indeed. God, I hated the old Batman and Robin. Fortunately, the reboot fixed everything. The new films are quite successful. Unfortunately, no other DC films are on par with them.


Superman Returns is the problem. Poorly paced, dumb dialogue, and whoever thought it was a good idea for Superman to be an absentee father needs to be smacked upside the head with a bound copy of the entire line of Action Comics.

Exactly the problem. It was hard to take that movie seriously.


Now personally, if they were to make a Superman movie I'd ask for several things:
A script that takes it's subject respectfully if not always seriously. Humor is good, but I would have toned it down a bit from the Avengers. My standard would be the Captain America movie, there are some very funny scenes but at it's core it's respectful of a hero whose ideals largely are considered outdated.
A closer view of Clark Kent and his relationships with Jimmy and Lois
Speaking of, show Lois as she is in (some of) the comics. Lois has at times outsmarted Batman. Supes sees her as his equal, present her as such. If you have to save her, fine, do it once. That's it.
Please don't make Lex Luthor show pleasures like they've never known to 90 year old women. That was just dumb.
Speaking of villains, while Lex is awesome, give Superman someone to fight in his first outing. Give Lex a few movies to build as a credible intelligent threat. He loses impact if he's in every movie, and at the end of every movie he gets sent to jail.
Get an actor who actually can pull off looking like two different characters without makeup. Christopher Reeves actually did a decent job at this in the first movie, where his Clark appearance posture, expressions, and at times even height and body size look different than his Superman persona.

I'd probably think of more later.

I would like Lex to actually not be so gratuitously evil. I mean, need to be stopped? Sure. But with reasonable motivations and things. The guys supposed to be intelligent. That means you need to actually work to portray that well.

Also, I'd like a golden age superman. Superman does not need additional powers. Spinning the world backward in time? God no. I liked it when "leaping tall buildings with a single bound" was actually something he did, as opposed to being a caped god.

[The Troubadour]

Admittedly the older Batman films are target of much, much more mockery.

Hey! Tim Burton's "Batman" was excellent! :-)

[Karoht]

One: Fury never actually said Coulson was dead; all he ever said was down. And that a team of medics was already there. That could leave a door open for Phil to return... except then Hill should have mentioned it when she confronted Fury about the bloodied trading cards. Conceivably it could have been kept secret from her, too - but to what end?
I answered this earlier...
Coulson said it before he 'stopped', Fury said it when he was questioned about the cards. "They needed the Push."
Fury also said to the council earlier in the film "With the right Push I think they can be exactly what we need."
Also, he's already cast for Iron Man 3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_coulson#Iron_Man_3
And I think there was an interview with Keven Feirge saying that he is in fact not dead. Same interview that confirmed that the guy in the post credits scene is in fact Thanos.

[Devonix]

Ummm No. I think you've got the characters mixed up. Goldenage Superman was even more powerful than Silver age he just had a more defined powerset.

Superman needs to fly also He's been flying since nearly the very beginning, Golden Age supes flew it was only in the earliest apperances that he didn't.

If you want to go back to those early non flying comics you might as well start having him kill people like he did in those issues.

superman did not start to really become Superman until flying started.

Also one scene that NEEDS to happen is a variation on a scene in Bruce Almighty where God gives Bruce the ability to hear people calling out in prayer. Then god tells him that's just a few blocks and not the whole world.

I would love to see Superman going through that and going through the emotional turmoil that no matter how good he is, no matter how much of his life he sacrifices he will never be able to help all of those voices crying out. and have him hear the entire city and fly up into space for a scene to escape the sound.


Though Captain Marvel did fly first.

[Soras Teva Gee]

HEY IF PEOPLE WANNA DISCUSS A DC MOVIEVERSE WHY DON'T YA' MAKE A THREAD TO DO THAT

Seriously folks

So Avengers going forward, we know Stark, Cap, and Thor all have further titles in the works... who here thinks it will be a shame if there isn't another Hulk one with Mark Ruffalo?

[Karoht]

HEY IF PEOPLE WANNA DISCUSS A DC MOVIEVERSE WHY DON'T YA' MAKE A THREAD TO DO THAT

Seriously folks

So Avengers going forward, we know Stark, Cap, and Thor all have further titles in the works... who here thinks it will be a shame if there isn't another Hulk one with Mark Ruffalo?Agreed. Hulk deserves another fair shake, especially with Mark Ruffalo. Maybe Joss should write/direct that one too? He seemed to have an excellent grasp of the character, and was able to showcase him surprisingly well.


Also, for anyone wondering about future crossovers of other Marvel works, go check out www.theescapist.com and click videos, then click 'the big picture.' They did an excellent discussion of why we aren't likely to see someone like Spider Man or any of the Xmen show up in a Marvel Studios production. Due to IP rights and management.

[DiscipleofBob]

Here here on the Hulk.

As much as I like Edward Norton and that other guy, I think Mark Ruffalo gave Banner that perfect feel of half-benevolent-scientist-half-mailman-about-to-go-postal.

Didn't the last Hulk movie hint at some guy becoming the Leader or MODOK or something big-headed?

[Androgeus]

Also, for anyone wondering about future crossovers of other Marvel works, go check out www.theescapist.com and click videos, then click 'the big picture.' They did an excellent discussion of why we aren't likely to see someone like Spider Man or any of the Xmen show up in a Marvel Studios production. Due to IP rights and management.

Here (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5685-Wrongs-Rights) for people who don't know that the escapist url is escapistmagazine.com

[Dienekes]

Here here on the Hulk.

As much as I like Edward Norton and that other guy, I think Mark Ruffalo gave Banner that perfect feel of half-benevolent-scientist-half-mailman-about-to-go-postal.

Didn't the last Hulk movie hint at some guy becoming the Leader or MODOK or something big-headed?

It was the Leader.

Speaking of future movies in the Marvel Universe, anyone else curious if/how they're pull off Batroc or any of the other Cap villains. I mean Red Skull can make a return, but that'd be a bit boring. Zola has been dealt with, Zemo, to make sense needed to be introduced last movie.

Maybe it's because I don't really follow the Cap except some of his more universally acclaimed books, but I can't think of many others to throw at him.

[DiscipleofBob]

It was the Leader.

Speaking of future movies in the Marvel Universe, anyone else curious if/how they're pull off Batroc or any of the other Cap villains. I mean Red Skull can make a return, but that'd be a bit boring. Zola has been dealt with, Zemo, to make sense needed to be introduced last movie.

Maybe it's because I don't really follow the Cap except some of his more universally acclaimed books, but I can't think of many others to throw at him.

While I personally think they're just fine with Red Skull right now, they could conceivably pull off Winter Soldier.

[Soras Teva Gee]

It was the Leader.

Speaking of future movies in the Marvel Universe, anyone else curious if/how they're pull off Batroc or any of the other Cap villains. I mean Red Skull can make a return, but that'd be a bit boring. Zola has been dealt with, Zemo, to make sense needed to be introduced last movie.

Maybe it's because I don't really follow the Cap except some of his more universally acclaimed books, but I can't think of many others to throw at him.

Skull coming back can be moderated through his supporting cast. Cap going after say Crossbones (or even Sin) only to find the man behind the man. Zemo you just go through Zemo II with some back story.

Batroc begs for an awesome movie expansion though in my book.

[Tyndmyr]

Ummm No. I think you've got the characters mixed up. Goldenage Superman was even more powerful than Silver age he just had a more defined powerset.

Superman needs to fly also He's been flying since nearly the very beginning, Golden Age supes flew it was only in the earliest apperances that he didn't.

If you want to go back to those early non flying comics you might as well start having him kill people like he did in those issues.

superman did not start to really become Superman until flying started.

Also one scene that NEEDS to happen is a variation on a scene in Bruce Almighty where God gives Bruce the ability to hear people calling out in prayer. Then god tells him that's just a few blocks and not the whole world.

I would love to see Superman going through that and going through the emotional turmoil that no matter how good he is, no matter how much of his life he sacrifices he will never be able to help all of those voices crying out. and have him hear the entire city and fly up into space for a scene to escape the sound.


Though Captain Marvel did fly first.

Pre-Golden Age superman, then. And there wasn't much in the way of explicit killing. They were pretty scripted. Go, save Lois Lane(who was invariably kidnapped), punch the various mooks, probably punch a doomsday device, then punch the big bad.

I don't need that kind of plot...but actually having a defined powerset is rather the point. You need that.

As for the whole deconstruction idea...if you're going to do that, don't do Superman. Do Irredeemable.

[Karoht]

@Superman
His super hearing is so good, he was able to hear while still in outer space, according to Superman Returns
In space, no one can hear you scream. Except superman.

Back on topic (you know, Avengers/Marvel Films) I'm still jones'n to see Dr Strange. After seeing Sorcerers Apprentice, I figure they can tell a good modern day sorcery tale if they want to. Heck, I think I would even be okay with it featuring Nicholas Cage. But, lets hope they don't pull that.
What actor would work for Dr Strange?

[The Glyphstone]

@Superman
His super hearing is so good, he was able to hear while still in outer space, according to Superman Returns
In space, no one can hear you scream. Except superman.


Can he hear me screaming now from the physical impossibility of this?

[Dienekes]

Can he hear me screaming now from the physical impossibility of this?

Yeah, because Superman shouldn't be able to do things that is physically impossible!
I actually thought it was dumb in the movie too, but sorry Glyph this line struck me as silly


Back on topic (you know, Avengers/Marvel Films) I'm still jones'n to see Dr Strange. After seeing Sorcerers Apprentice, I figure they can tell a good modern day sorcery tale if they want to. Heck, I think I would even be okay with it featuring Nicholas Cage. But, lets hope they don't pull that.
What actor would work for Dr Strange?

A Vincent Price impersonator?

[Xondoure]

If someone less lazy than I could dig up a list of all the super hero movies currently in the works I would be most grateful. (also they'd get an internet.)

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, because Superman shouldn't be able to do things that is physically impossible!
I actually thought it was dumb in the movie too, but sorry Glyph this line struck me as silly



Superman doing the physically impossible I'm okay with. Superman being a reality warper who rewrites the actual laws of physics...:smallsmile::smallannoyed:

[MammonAzrael]

Superman doing the physically impossible I'm okay with. Superman being a reality warper who rewrites the actual laws of physics...:smallsmile::smallannoyed:

Maybe it's more like telepathy, except he can only pick up what people verbalize?

[Tyndmyr]

Superman doing the physically impossible I'm okay with. Superman being a reality warper who rewrites the actual laws of physics...:smallsmile::smallannoyed:

Right. Im cool with him having fantastic hearing...but this is no less ridiculous than hearing what color something is. Hearing just does not work that way.

One of my personal most hated comics of superman was when lex luthor blew up a supercomputer to hide the evidence of his evil deeds...but superman used superspeed and supermemory to reassemble the exploded pieces of the computer into their original shape, then grabbed the evidence off the now working computer. Yeah, that's a little ridiculous.

[Xondoure]

Right. Im cool with him having fantastic hearing...but this is no less ridiculous than hearing what color something is. Hearing just does not work that way.

One of my personal most hated comics of superman was when lex luthor blew up a supercomputer to hide the evidence of his evil deeds...but superman used superspeed and supermemory to reassemble the exploded pieces of the computer into their original shape, then grabbed the evidence off the now working computer. Yeah, that's a little ridiculous.

A) That's called Synesthesia and is an actual real life super power, B) create a thread, leave us marvel guys and gals to our delighted shouts of praise and minor nitpicking.

Edit: in retrospect this post is a little rude. :smallredface: Sorry about that.

[Androgeus]

Right. Im cool with him having fantastic hearing...but this is no less ridiculous than hearing what color something is. Hearing just does not work that way.

I thought synesthesia was a real thing. Not that sounds have actual colours, but people associate certain colours with sounds.

But this is wildly off topic.
Here's a nitpick, why does Thor never use his hammer to pin anyone in this film? I guess he just didn't have time.

[Ursus the Grim]

A) That's called Synesthesia and is an actual real life super power, B) create a thread, leave us marvel guys and gals to our delighted shouts of praise and minor nitpicking.

Holy hell we loved this movie. Saw it with my fiancee and best friend. Fiancee had to go to the bathroom since the Loki/Black Widow scene and held it until the bitter end when she had to vault over the rail in front of us to escape. It was that good.

Perhaps good is the wrong word. Good implies legitimate, critical evaluation of the movie as an art form. It was exhilarating, funny, and dynamic. I've never heard an audience laugh as loud so often, and my stupid guffaw was right there in the chorus. The cast was juggled amazingly well, and I never got the sense that Hawkeye or Black Widow were useless, probably because they each got crowning moments of coolness.

Now for the spoilery bits.
First, as funny as the 'puny god' scene was, it really ruined anything resembling a climax. This is probably partly due to how much I dislike the Hulk. Bruce Banner is an okay character, but the Hulk is on levels with Golden Age superman in terms of sheer ridiculousness. The movie gave Thor the privilege of going toe-to-toe with the Hulk, which is nice considering how we later see where gods rank in the power levels of the Marvelverse.

Thor is probably my favorite Avenger. I'm a sucker for the tall, strong warrior types and I can't say I was upset to see a toss from Mjolnir put Stark in his place.

The rapport/rivalry built between Thor and the Hulk really appealed to me. We have to guys with similar goals and attitudes and similar power levels but wildly different appearances and personalities. I think some interesting parallels can be drawn between Hulk's thirst for destruction and Thor's love of battle. The fight during the raid on the airship was intensely entertaining, if brief. The sucker punch delivered after the two, both grunting and huffing and puffing, had taken down one of the leviathans was one of the funniest gags that night. Anyone else catch the hammer and nail combo between the two of them during that fight? I thought that was pretty cool, personally.

Stark is alright. Downey plays him well, I just don't like the character that much. Funny, yes, and I can see the appeal, but overall I don't like him as a superhero. I mean, let's face it. Something's up when Thor is the second-most levelheaded of the team. :smallbiggrin:

I was pleasantly surprised by Captain America. Admittedly, I had been told his movie was missable, so I went ahead and missed it. Despite being American (**** yeah), I don't feel super-patriotic. Perhaps that's why the character doesn't really appeal to me. But he did a good job of changing my mind in the Avengers. Funny in a quiet way, just conflicted enough to remind you he's human, but ultimately the most 'heroic' in a classic way. Captain America's "there's only one God" line, irked me a bit. Not sure why, considering I hold my judeo-christian values still. I feel like in modern media where you go to laugh and be entertained, we shouldn't be bringing in a superhero that states what a God is. Especially not when Marvel Asgardians are handwaved as being aliens. Granted, its a big part of Cap's character, being a red-blooded American from the 40s, but it was kind of a turnoff.


Sadly, Loki didn't do much manipulating. It makes more sense when you view him more as a harbringer of the bigger bad, but as the trickster god, I think he should have at least gotten a genuine reaction out of Black Widow. All the real manipulating was done by the spear. I don't think Loki should have a crutch like that, especially if he's not going to be a physical threat.

We've all been talking about the big jokes, but the little ones were just as important overall. They really kept the tone high throughout and during scenes that might have otherwise dragged. Honorable mentions in my opinion being Galaga, adopted brother, and the tail end of the autograph request.

I just realized how much I've written, so I'm going to end there. In closing, if you haven't seen it yet. . . . expect comedy, not a dramatic masterpiece, and you should be greatly satisfied.

[Devonix]

A) That's called Synesthesia and is an actual real life super power, B) create a thread, leave us marvel guys and gals to our delighted shouts of praise and minor nitpicking.

Edit: in retrospect this post is a little rude. :smallredface: Sorry about that.

Supes has an Eidetic memory. Its something he's had since prettymuch the begining of the character though some writers forget it. Superman sees something even at superspeed and he remembers it with complete accuracy. It's how he can read books at superspeed and completely recall an entire novel's worth of info. Much in the way the Flash's do.

It's not used much because some people consider it a boring power even though it comes into play in much of his fighting.

Superman can rush into a fight scan the entire area and know where every innocent civilian is and works out how to avoid harming them in melee or rushing over to stop a bit of debris from crushing them while fighting

Or when Braniac Showed him the miracle machine for a brief second so that when he traveled back to present day he would be able to build one before the sheer scope of the knowlege faded.

Him building the computer was silly, it would have made more sense for him to read the information stored in the computer and then program a new computer to simulate a copy of that info.

Anyway I'm gonna go make that DC thread now.

[Mx.Silver]

A) That's called Synesthesia and is an actual real life super power
No. No it is not.
Synesthesia is a condition which causes the brain to associate certain words/sounds with other sensory stimuli - usually colours, but in some cases it can be tastes or smells - which the synesthete will also perceive when they hear the sound/word. It doesn't actually provide information about what the visible colour of something is.

[TSGames]

I thought The Avengers was solidly "OK". It was formulaic to a fault. Consequently, after the first twenty minutes it felt like the script was little more than a series of fill in the blanks to complete the same sequence of joke, initiate, hero is losing, action sequence, joke, hero wins, joke. While the movie script may have been no more than a series of fill in the blanks, forming the same repeating pattern, at least the blanks were filled in with entertaining material. It's a movie that is worth seeing once.

[leafman]

If someone less lazy than I could dig up a list of all the super hero movies currently in the works I would be most grateful. (also they'd get an internet.)

Off the top of my head:
Marvel
Thor 2 (2013)
Iron Man 3 (2013)
Captain America 2 (2014)
Hulk 2 (2014)
Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014)
The Wolverine (2013)
Ant Man (2014)
Doctor Strange (201?)
Nick Fury (201?)
Deapool (2014, not 100% on this one)
Fantasic Four reboot (201?, if Fox doesn't want to lose the license)

DC
Green Lantern 2 (announced before GL was in theaters but might not happen for obvious reasons)
Man of Steel (2013)

Other
Ninja Turtles (2013)

[Zevox]

The Wolverine (2013)
Another one? Seriously? :smallsigh:


Ant Man (2014)
:smallconfused: Really? I genuinely would not have expected that.


Green Lantern 2 (announced before GL was in theaters but might not happen for obvious reasons)
I hope it does. I really want Green Lantern to have a good movie, and hopefully they can learn from the criticisms of the first one. Plus just having Sinestro as the villain should be a step up in many respects.

Though maybe that's just my inner GL fan being too optimistic for my own good.

Also, I'm pretty sure they're working on a sequel to X-Men: First Class.

Zevox

[Reverent-One]

Oh man, I can finally read this thread. I really have nothing new to add, but that was spectacular. Totally awesome. Joss Whedon is my master now.


ALSO, did anyone else giggle a little when Victor (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2222175/) showed up during the "final" battle?

I did.


:smallconfused: Really? I genuinely would not have expected that.

Eh, an Ant-man movie has been "in the works" since sometime after the first Iron Man came out, I'm not buying into it actually is until I see something more.


Also, I'm pretty sure they're working on a sequel to X-Men: First Class.

Yep, ideally several I think.

Now this movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2015381/), which is at least as much vaporware as Ant-man, if not several times moreso, is the one I want to see more than another other except Avengers 2 right now.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Another one? Seriously? :smallsigh:

Expect a never ending string of X-men and Spidey movies, because none of the license holders want to let them pass to the media empire that is Disney and be able to say.... appear in an Avengers movie.

[Zevox]

Expect a never ending string of X-men and Spidey movies, because none of the license holders want to let them pass to the media empire that is Disney and be able to say.... appear in an Avengers movie.
I'm fine with more X-Men movies, especially after First Class was so good. Wolverine movies, on the other hand...

Zevox

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'm fine with more X-Men movies, especially after First Class was so good. Wolverine movies, on the other hand...

Zevox

Then don't go and see it and if anyone you know makes plans to slash their tires and steal their wallet.

[Trog]

Scarlett Johansson in tight suits jumping around... in 3-D.

'Nuff said. :smallwink:

Though seriously I enjoyed the film. I liked the humor because it kept it from taking itself too seriously. They managed to pull off different levels of abilities and have everyone contribute in one way or another. Knew I should have stuck around until the very end of the credits. Oh well. I liked that all the backstory for each hero was already done in other movies so they could just concentrate on the story at hand, which was nice. Good banter overall. A fun film.

[Zevox]

Then don't go and see it and if anyone you know makes plans to slash their tires and steal their wallet.
Oh, I won't. I don't like Wolverine, so I have no reason to. Still, I wish that at the very least getting his own movies would keep him out of the regular X-Men ones, but I doubt I'll get even that much.

Zevox

[SaintRidley]

Just got back from seeing it.

Greatest superhero movie ever.

That is all.

Please return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[Omergideon]

I am one of the people out there who is most critical of Joss Whedon, though I think my issues focus on a few key areas. First, most of his character's humour comes from the same place, i.e. snark. Second, he seems often pathologically afraid of happy endings/couples. Third, I have never been impressed with him as an action director (Serenity......well the female characters in Serenity being the boggest offender). And finally he is willing to sacrifice drama and serious narrative (even consistency at times) for the humour. Most of these issues were not present in this film and so his strengths (3D characters, interpersonal relationships, dialogue and good moral ambiguity) can really shine through.

I liked this film a lot, more than I thought I would a Whedon project. Especially the action which was well shot, well staged and mostly very good. Either he reined himself in, has changed or was told to be more "marvel universey" I do have problems with it though. Mostly revolving around Loki and Captain America.


With Loki the biggest problem is that he was never convincing in this movie as being a proper threat to everyone, except in his first scene. Most of the rest of the film he is being outdone, outsnarked, dismissed or otherwise shown as relatively ineffective. I would mention examples but I cannot make spoilers work. However the 2 main drama killers have been mentioned in the thread already, related to Hulk and certain "performance issues" near the end. To me they sorely undercut the threat of the villains and prevented me from appreciating the struggles of the heroes.

For Cap.......he just doesn't have enough to shine as a leader. Sure he sets some plans up and falls into place, but he should have been the heart of the team. Drawing them together and slowly breaking down their cynicism. He does nothing in the film to earn his leadership role. Not that he doesn't have some cool moments, but of the characters his arc was really the weakest and least developed. Also somehow the action scenes with him, especially cap vs Loki, were underwhelming and.......not great. He lacked the obvious fanboy bonus the Widow got to her moments, and his abilities were underutilised compared to his own film. But most of all.......he did not get to show why a good old fashioned hero should lead the team. I was disappointed.


But it was a good film. 7.5 or 8/10 for me. A great effort and well worth seeing.

[Ursus the Grim]

For Cap.......he just doesn't have enough to shine as a leader. Sure he sets some plans up and falls into place, but he should have been the heart of the team. Drawing them together and slowly breaking down their cynicism. He does nothing in the film to earn his leadership role. Not that he doesn't have some cool moments, but of the characters his arc was really the weakest and least developed. Also somehow the action scenes with him, especially cap vs Loki, were underwhelming and.......not great. He lacked the obvious fanboy bonus the Widow got to her moments, and his abilities were underutilised compared to his own film. But most of all.......he did not get to show why a good old fashioned hero should lead the team. I was disappointed.


I agree with your Loki point, but I don't really think Cap was as bad off as you suggest. Granted, I watched the movie not realizing he was supposed to be the leader, so to speak. The way it was presented, it was almost as if Iron Man was the leader. He was, after all, the most charismatic one, and as any D&D player can tell you that's generally who the party face/leader ends up being. Regardless, Cap acted as the moral compass, the concrete that helped hold the aggregate together, just by being there, to remind them that they weren't all supposed to be at each other's throat and that they were there for the people.

I think, however, that he got more than his share of action, considering his relative power level. He's got abilities near the apex of what is normally humanly possible, and he shows it off through parkour. Not even really superhuman abilities. He's got a perfect shield. Not that I don't think cap is worth anything, but its a notch or two below Hulk, Thor, even Iron Man. They did a better job of making him look skillful than they did with Black Widow and Hawkeye, which says something because I think even they were properly represented.

[Omergideon]

Regardless, Cap acted as the moral compass, the concrete that helped hold the aggregate together, just by being there, to remind them that they weren't all supposed to be at each other's throat and that they were there for the people.

I think, however, that he got more than his share of action, considering his relative power level. He's got abilities near the apex of what is normally humanly possible, and he shows it off through parkour. Not even really superhuman abilities. He's got a perfect shield.

Thinking again he did fine in the fight scenes. The Loki one was not well shot for me, but generally he did ok. But he never had a moment I can recall as him being "awesome" like everyone else did, even Hawkeye and Widow.

But for the rest......when? I mean when did he bring the team together and take leadership? It may have been implied to you that he was the glue but I never got that impression. In some ways he was trying on the helicarrier before things went bad, but he never DID it as I recall. Never took initiative and stepped up to the plate. His big thing about his place in the world was never addressed (though they may be saving that for his solo sequel). Even as simple a change as him radioing in the other heroes to assemble would have really improved this for me.

So yeah, I don't see when he acted as the glue, and when he did something to convince the team he should be so.

[Soras Teva Gee]

For Cap.......he just doesn't have enough to shine as a leader. Sure he sets some plans up and falls into place, but he should have been the heart of the team. Drawing them together and slowly breaking down their cynicism. He does nothing in the film to earn his leadership role. Not that he doesn't have some cool moments, but of the characters his arc was really the weakest and least developed. Also somehow the action scenes with him, especially cap vs Loki, were underwhelming and.......not great. He lacked the obvious fanboy bonus the Widow got to her moments, and his abilities were underutilised compared to his own film. But most of all.......he did not get to show why a good old fashioned hero should lead the team. I was disappointed.

I don't quite agree because Cap came out better then I expected honestly. For Cap to truly be Cap he'd need to be in the lead, its the sort of thing that wouldn't quite get passed the executive approval stage. We were very lucky we didn't get Iron Man 3.

Clearly all the pieces were there, they were just restricted by not being Cap's story but an ensemble one. Could his moments have been cooler... ehh that's getting into to subjective territory. I dare say a lot of the nerd audience probably wouldn't enjoy the "There's only one..." bit as much as I did.

[DiscipleofBob]

Thinking again he did fine in the fight scenes. The Loki one was not well shot for me, but generally he did ok. But he never had a moment I can recall as him being "awesome" like everyone else did, even Hawkeye and Widow.

But for the rest......when? I mean when did he bring the team together and take leadership? It may have been implied to you that he was the glue but I never got that impression. In some ways he was trying on the helicarrier before things went bad, but he never DID it as I recall. Never took initiative and stepped up to the plate. His big thing about his place in the world was never addressed (though they may be saving that for his solo sequel). Even as simple a change as him radioing in the other heroes to assemble would have really improved this for me.

So yeah, I don't see when he acted as the glue, and when he did something to convince the team he should be so.

Captain America was the leader in the sense that he was the most level-headed, the most tactically-minded, and the most charismatic. Sure he didn't crack as much snark as Stark (heh) or talk as big a game as Thor, but when those two were about to level each other, who manages to talk both of them down?

Whenver Cap gives orders related to the mission, those orders are followed, because everyone on the team knows that Cap knows what he's talking about. While Nick Fury (the one who radioes everyone in) is questioned for his ethics and hidden agendas to the point where he can't be trusted to be part of the team much less the team leader, everyone already knows that Cap is just here to save the world. Even Iron Man, the most rebellious of the group, lets Cap call the shots.

If you're looking for the glue that binds the Avengers together though, that's not the team leader. That honor belongs to Agent Coulson (and in another sense Loki). The reason the Avengers can come together in the first place because Coulson was a friend to them, Loki murdered him, and his death was enough to get them to push past their petty egos and differences and actually form the team in the first place. You could also make the same argument for Loki's meddling inadvertently causing all of the superheroes to band together just by getting them all pissed off at the same person.

[SuperPanda]

I expected Cap to be the glue which held the team together, but oddly enough I found myself seeing Stark in that role.

While he's abbrasive, pompus, and very poorly behaved, Tony Stark did manage to convince Bruce Banner to consider "suiting up" with the rest of them. He was the one who put that idea in Bruce's head and he was the one who essentially told Cap to think of Banner as part of the team.

On the Heli-carrier, it was Stark calling the shots on the Cap - Stark side of things. Now part of that was because Cap's got no reason to know the technology and Cap had some absolutely awesome moments in that scene, but Stark was the one who took initiative.

The only moment I saw Cap calling the shots was the battle stratagey when the situation turned war like. He showed a superior strategic mind to the others (though to be fair this consists of "Hey I look good, why don't I blow something up", "Puny Mortals, face the wrath of Lightning", "Smash", "Get up high and pick a few off," and Black Widow who I expect would have had the plan "lie low and wait for back up."

All that said, Cap spent most of the movie needing a good kick in the pants to get him going and at that point he'd finally adjusted to everything going on around him.

[Yasuuji]

+1 Colson was definitely the catalyst, IMO. Also, the fanboy bit was hilarious with the trading cards.

[Talya]

I thought Cap as leader was handled perfectly, though it didn't really come to a head until the fighting started in earnest.

Appropriately, Tony was the strategist. He's the genius, the man with the plan. However, Cap was the one that people listened to, and the one with the tactical sense. In the end, he gave the orders, naturally, without the team questioning him, and he gave smart ones, utilizing the strengths of his team, and avoiding overburdening them with tasks beyond their abilities.

[DiscipleofBob]

+1 Colson was definitely the catalyst, IMO. Also, the fanboy bit was hilarious with the trading cards.

That's the genius bit with Coulson. Because he's the fanboy, fangasming over all the legends he's present with. He's basically the avatar for everyone already watching the movie, and said avatar heroically sacrifices himself so that the Avengers can actually come together as a team.

Metaphor: You (the fans) are making the sacrifices necessary so that the greatest superheroes in the world can finally team up and save the day.

[Karoht]

I noticed something about the cinematography.

It wasn't comic-booky like some films (the Ang Lee Hulk film being a particularly bad offender).

But yet it did somehow capture the feel of a comic book come to life. Maybe not the look per se, but definately the feel.

Everyone who has seen the film (don't worry, no spoiler here) knows of that one long shot where it goes from person to person. It didn't look like a comic book, but it felt like comic book action.

The only other media I can reference that also did that (kinda) was Watchmen, but it was different.

Or perhaps I'm the only person seeing/feeling that?


@Tony Stark Talking with Loki


To me, this wasn't just a threat. This was standard Iron Man showboating. BUT the genius is, it wasn't about him. If it was about him, he would have talked himself up, or played some rock music, got into the armor right in front of Loki and probably strut around in it for a minute, or whatever.
I immediately pictured Tony on a stage, opening for a Rock Band. Notice how he was introducting everyone. It felt like, for a moment, maybe, he wasn't being the headliner, he was just playing the opening act to something bigger.

Sure, it's still that Stark Brand (TM) arrogance. But it's channeled to something other than him for a moment, and it really is a wonder to see it.

...
Then he did the opening stunt right before the band came on. You know, like the guy that gets into a box and it explodes on stage? Yeah. Fun. It's interesting because that act almost but not quite separates him from Iron Man. Tony is the opening act or the face, The Avengers are the Headliner.

It's like it is the moment that he goes from "I" to "We" even for just a moment.


Thoughts?

[Omergideon]

Captain America was the leader in the sense that he was the most level-headed, the most tactically-minded, and the most charismatic. Sure he didn't crack as much snark as Stark (heh) or talk as big a game as Thor, but when those two were about to level each other, who manages to talk both of them down?

Whenver Cap gives orders related to the mission, those orders are followed, because everyone on the team knows that Cap knows what he's talking about. While Nick Fury (the one who radioes everyone in) is questioned for his ethics and hidden agendas to the point where he can't be trusted to be part of the team much less the team leader, everyone already knows that Cap is just here to save the world. Even Iron Man, the most rebellious of the group, lets Cap call the shots.

They do let him call the shots. His role is as leader. But again, where and when did he DO anything to deserve or earn that status in this movie. We all know he is deserving of the role thanks to his solo outing. But with all the wonderful description of who Captain America is, and how he is followed by the others there is no moment before the assembly scene where he does something to get that respect and status from everyone. That is my problem with the portrayal. That and his character arc being the weakest in the film, least developed and least impressive.

I mean he and Tony go from snarky near hate to Tony saying "he lives up to the legend", and all Steve does is help out sorting out the turbine in a moderately impressive/cool way. Nothing to live up to his legend by that point. Not really.

I repeat however, Cap was cool enough. He just did not stand out as a leader or have an "AWESOME" moment in the way the other Avengers did.


Though I will agree that, considering Paramount execs were probably angling for more Iron Man (and he certainly was touted as the feature attraction if the trailers were to be believed), we were lucky to not have the Tony Stark and Friends movie.

[Xondoure]

For Cap.......he just doesn't have enough to shine as a leader. Sure he sets some plans up and falls into place, but he should have been the heart of the team. Drawing them together and slowly breaking down their cynicism. He does nothing in the film to earn his leadership role. Not that he doesn't have some cool moments, but of the characters his arc was really the weakest and least developed. Also somehow the action scenes with him, especially cap vs Loki, were underwhelming and.......not great. He lacked the obvious fanboy bonus the Widow got to her moments, and his abilities were underutilised compared to his own film. But most of all.......he did not get to show why a good old fashioned hero should lead the team. I was disappointed.

Couldn't disagree more. He was the leader, but that doesn't mean he takes center stage. It means he supports his team and points them in the right direction. Which is what he does after he goes through his own personal struggle with adjusting to a new modern world that's more morally grey than he knows how to handle. And the fact that there was time for that, and that they accomplished it without a whole lot of dialogue is really impressive to me. Or to put it another way, he doesn't start out in charge. But when things get tough he stands up, and the rest fall in line because it's the Avengers.

And as for the action scenes... How do I put this... He used his damn shield. That was by far the most disappointing part of the first movie to me. Yes there were shield stunts, but they were not nearly as frequent when Cap was taking names. In this movie I got the impression the shield was as much a part of his arm as Mjolnir is to Thor. The moment that did it best for me was when
Iron Man and Thor are fighting and Cap's shield just bounces off their heads. Not really enough to do much more than get the attention of both of them. But it was a nice little touch that made me smile. More actioney bit? Well, him saving that building was pretty sweet, and the city scroll through when he's fighting with iron man was fun. (Ricochet!)

[Dienekes]

I thought Cap as leader was handled perfectly, though it didn't really come to a head until the fighting started in earnest.

Appropriately, Tony was the strategist. He's the genius, the man with the plan. However, Cap was the one that people listened to, and the one with the tactical sense. In the end, he gave the orders, naturally, without the team questioning him, and he gave smart ones, utilizing the strengths of his team, and avoiding overburdening them with tasks beyond their abilities.

I really can't think of a bit where Tony was actually being a strategist. That was entirely taken by Fury/Coulson setting up the Avengers and making sure they where in the right frame of mind so that they can deal with the problem.

They did have him as the face though, which I think is more appropriate to his skill set. Tony is a genius, but he's specialized in engineering and as shown with Tony/Steve had the "have you ever lost a soldier" scene to not really have the experience or attitude for calling big picture shots dealing with anyone other than himself.