Brainstorming: How Would You Make a Divine Duskblade-Like Class?

[wayfare]

Hey All:

In my endless quest to get my martial-arts campaign off the ground, I am trying to create a divine duskblade-like class. I'd like some help brainstorming before I get this idea off the ground, so I turn to the mighty Plaground for insight!

My Ideas So Far

1) This is going to be a class with lots of buffs and debuffs -- a battlefield controller rather than direct damage.

2) I'd like a class feature that allows you to sacrifice spells to increase the damage inflicted by your attacks.

[Ziegander]

I normally don't like to toot my own horn, but did THIS (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239689) not work for you?

You say you want a battlefield controller rather than a damage-dealer, so why do you want an armored, melee warrior?

A class feature that allows you to sacrifice spells to augment your weapon damage could work exactly like the Arcane Strike feat (if not a little bit stronger).

[Lonely Tylenol]

At the risk of sounding snarky, this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm) would be a good place to start.

[Snowbluff]

You can channel Cure Light Wounds for 1d8+1 Healing by hitting your friends with your longsword doing 1d8+3. :smallamused:

[Fable Wright]

For a class feature that allows you to sacrifice spells for damage, why not just grant a feat that grants the divine equivalent of Arcane Strike? Take the Duskblade, strip out Arcane Channeling and the Armored Mage abilities, and give them Divine Arcane Strike as their third level ability. You still have useful abilities in the form of Quick Cast (Quickened spells on a buffer/battlefield controller is good) and Spell Power (Bonus against creatures just bypassing your battlefield control spells with their SR), and you have plenty of dead levels to add in a few flavorful abilities to help customize it.

[Lateral]

Yeah, some guy got this idea already. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190289) And it kicks some major ass.

[Snowbluff]

Yeah, some guy got this idea already. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190289) And it kicks some major ass.

Pretty 8auss, but I have a concern. It seems straight up 8etter than Duskblade. The armor 8onus is better, and they get Shivering Touch. Kinda a 8ig "what the hell" to me.

[Ravens_cry]

At the risk of sounding snarky, this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm) would be a good place to start.
At the risk of sounding even snarkier, this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm) sounds even better.
Heavy armour, 3/4 BAB and full spells, full of buffs and not a few debuffs, sounds like a divine gish-in-a-can to this one.

[Lateral]

Pretty 8auss, but I have a concern. It seems straight up 8etter than Duskblade. The armor 8onus is better, and they get Shivering Touch. Kinda a 8ig "what the hell" to me.

1T 1S, BUT TH4T'S 1NT3NT1ON4L- DUSKBL4D3 1S G3N3R4LLY PUT 1N T13R THR33, BUT ONLY B4R3LY; TH3 UPGR4D3S TH4T TH3 D4WNBL4DE G3TS PUSH 1T UP 1NTO SOL1D T13R THR33.

[DoctorGlock]

I think ordained champion already does everything you are looking for.

[N. Jolly]

why doesnt a straight up cleric work for this
its got like basically everything youd need to kick ass and clean up in battle
set it up right and you got a sick sexy warrior who probably does field control better then others
hell maybe go for like a tob + 3/4ths caster to throw some divine power in another way
skimp on its other class features and youd have one crazy knight
okay damn now i kinda wanna work on homebrewing it

[Snowbluff]

1T 1S, BUT TH4T'S 1NT3NT1ON4L- DUSKBL4D3 1S G3N3R4LLY PUT 1N T13R THR33, BUT ONLY B4R3LY; TH3 UPGR4D3S TH4T TH3 D4WNBL4DE G3TS PUSH 1T UP 1NTO SOL1D T13R THR33.

hmm, if pushing past 8arely is what we're after, sounds good.


why doesnt a straight up cleric work for this
its got like basically everything youd need to kick ass and clean up in battle
set it up right and you got a sick sexy warrior who probably does field control better then others
hell maybe go for like a tob + 3/4ths caster to throw some divine power in another way
skimp on its other class features and youd have one crazy knight
okay damn now i kinda wanna work on homebrewing it

Holy Crap! ::::D

No pun intended. I'd just like to point out that Cleric is very different from Dusk8lade. It's much stronger but isn't really the Gish in a can people are looking for when they grab D8.

[wayfare]

why doesnt a straight up cleric work for this
its got like basically everything youd need to kick ass and clean up in battle
set it up right and you got a sick sexy warrior who probably does field control better then others
hell maybe go for like a tob + 3/4ths caster to throw some divine power in another way
skimp on its other class features and youd have one crazy knight
okay damn now i kinda wanna work on homebrewing it

The game is geared towards tier 3 or 4 characters, and it is really a pretty straight martial arts tournament -- summoning solars to fight for you is kind of out of perspective for the game :smallsmile:

[N. Jolly]

okay so youre not super gating stuff in and wrecking things up
but i stand by taking like a bard chasis throwing some tob in there and stripping down its other abilities to make something awesome
maybe give it like three disciplines (the divine thing white raven and some third one) with -1 the warblades known maneuvers and prepared and like the spell list from the pf inquisitor and you got something thats totally worth using and a controller

[moritheil]

The game is geared towards tier 3 or 4 characters, and it is really a pretty straight martial arts tournament -- summoning solars to fight for you is kind of out of perspective for the game :smallsmile:

You don't have to. Get the War domain. You can take the divine feat that boosts your saves in return for expending your turns, and use your spells on buffs instead of summoning and utility. All that being a gish-like cleric requires is that you ignore spells.

It's like I was saying to someone in another thread - sure, being a wizard could ruin the fun for your party barbarian at high levels. But you could always play down and use ennervations and metamagic fireballs instead of save-or-dies. People act like it isn't an option.

[wayfare]

You don't have to. Get the War domain. You can take the divine feat that boosts your saves in return for expending your turns, and use your spells on buffs instead of summoning and utility. All that being a gish-like cleric requires is that you ignore spells.

It's like I was saying to someone in another thread - sure, being a wizard could ruin the fun for your party barbarian at high levels. But you could always play down and use ennervations and metamagic fireballs instead of save-or-dies. People act like it isn't an option.

Not saying that its not an option, just that the Cleirc will always have options that are not available to a gish.

But that is not the point.

The group wants a divine gish. I aim to deliver.

[eggs]

This is a weird question.
You want a Duskblade, but with a spell list derived from the Cleric spell list instead of the Wizard spell list.
What's stopping you from taking the Duskblade, but deriving its spell list from the Cleric spell list ?
Flip the casting abilities to Divine/Wisdom-based, and it sounds like you'd have it.

[wayfare]

This is a weird question.
You want a Duskblade, but with a spell list derived from the Cleric spell list instead of the Wizard spell list.
What's stopping you from taking the Duskblade, but deriving its spell list from the Cleric spell list ?
Flip the casting abilities to Divine/Wisdom-based, and it sounds like you'd have it.

That might be the way I go, but are there that many touch based offensive cleric spells?

[Gwendol]

This has been mentioned before in this thread, but Ordained Champion is what you are looking for. Full BAB and (eventually) the ability to channel spells.

[wayfare]

Ok, folks --

Here is the spell list my group came up with for this idea...which has evolved into more of a Paladin like deal:

Level 1: Bane; Bless; Bear’s Endurance; Blade of Blood (II); Bull’s Strength; Cloud of Knives (II); Divine Favor; Doom; Invest Light Protection (II);
Obscuring Mist; Produce Flame; Shield of Faith

Level 2: Align Weapon; Black Karma Curse (II); Darkness; Dispel Magic; Hold Person; Mark of Judgment (II); Silence, Sound Burst; Prayer; Resist
Energy; Spiritual Weapon; Wind Wall

Level 3: Channeled Divine Shield (II); Crown of Protection; Crown of Smiting; Daylight; Deeper Darkness; Divine Retaliation (II); Divine Power;
Hesitate; Invest Moderate Protection (II); Magic Circle; Mark of Doom (II); Poison; Searing Light

Level 4: Blessing of the Righteous; Blessed Sword; Death Ward; Disrupting Weapon; Flame Strike; Healing Spirit; Magic Weapon, Greater; Mystic Aegis

Level 5: Blade Barrier; Dispel Magic, Greater; Invest Heavy Protection; Meteoric Strike; Righteous Might; Slay Living; Spell Resistance; True
Seeing


Comments, Critiqies, Suggestion and Additions are very welcome!

Thanks for the help so far!

[Lateral]

Well, I would recommend adding Righteous Might in. You have Divine Power (and, by the way, I like how you moved it down a level, since the full-BAB part isn't important), but not the other divine melee staple. Also, there are plenty of good Paladin spells in the SpC that you'll want to port over; in particular, Favor of the Martyr is a great defensive buff, and Rhino's Rush is incredible.

[Thurbane]

Easiest RAW analogue would probably be Favoured Soul into Ordained Champion. Throw in a level of Dragonslayer for full Martial Weapon and Armor proficiency...

[Runestar]

Cleric with smiting spell feat (PHB2)? :smalltongue:

Granted, it takes a while before the combo works, but at higher lvs, you can be channeling harm spells into your normal attacks...:smallbiggrin:

[JadePhoenix]

The more I read this the more I think "yeah, Cleric or Paladin".

[Thurbane]

Well, I think Favored Soul has more of a Duskblade feel, with it's spontaneous casting and limited spells known...

[Harry]

Why not just play a barbarian5/champion of gwynharwyf10/barbarian5 that gives you full bab divine casting even when raging full rage progression and your a divine barbarian which is cooler then a divine duskblade

[Roguenewb]

I think ordained champion already does everything you are looking for.

This is incredibly true. Cleric 4/Ordained 5 is just sooooo amazing at this exact thing. Throw on a few levels of any cleric PrC on top and you're good to go.

[Ashtagon]

Start with cleric chassis.

* Change BAB to good.
* Reduce spell-casting spells per day to bard. Spells are still gained as a cleric.
* Remove all 5th and higher spells from spell list. 5th/6th level slots can only be used for metamagic.
* Allow turn undead attempts to be converted into smite attempts, as if the character were a paladin. Alternately: allow turn undead attempts to be converted into dark knowledge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) checks.

This probably hits tier 3.