Help with a sorcerer

[Deodarthethird]

Now I am currently sitting at a level 5 spellscale sorcerer

Str: 10
Con: 16
Dex: 13
Int: 11
Wis: 8
Cha: 20

I have already taken the feats Draconic heritage (white), Apprentice (spellcaster), Draconic brerath and draconic senses and the flaw innatentive as well as the swap out level for draconic sorcerer.

I am staying away from metamagic as it not really my thing (plus i've heard that you can really break a game if you do, or at least the party balance. I play with a warrior, a Barbarian, a Rouge, a Bard and a ranger and appart from the bard they all seem to want to play them straight.

now i have a couple of ideas for my character. 1) forget casting and go with dragon adept and disciple making myself quite boss as far as main stats are concerned anyway or 2) become a dracolexi and have all kinds of fun with words.

mainly what im asking here is if anyone else has any other ideas that i could do, and possible suggestions on what other feats to take?

[Ranting Fool]

Now I am currently sitting at a level 5 spellscale sorcerer

Str: 10
Con: 16
Dex: 13
Int: 11
Wis: 8
Cha: 20

I have already taken the feats Draconic heritage (white), Apprentice (spellcaster), Draconic brerath and draconic senses and the flaw innatentive as well as the swap out level for draconic sorcerer.

I am staying away from metamagic as it not really my thing (plus i've heard that you can really break a game if you do, or at least the party balance. I play with a warrior, a Barbarian, a Rouge, a Bard and a ranger and appart from the bard they all seem to want to play them straight.

now i have a couple of ideas for my character. 1) forget casting and go with dragon adept and disciple making myself quite boss as far as main stats are concerned anyway or 2) become a dracolexi and have all kinds of fun with words.

mainly what im asking here is if anyone else has any other ideas that i could do, and possible suggestions on what other feats to take?

Well not seen that many Sor builds but the Dragon Diciple build I know was mostly Barbarian with a bit of Sor and a lot of Str + Powerattack splatting things.

Since you don't get many spell choices, though a large number of casting, I tend to give Sor's a theme (Think Arctypes in PHB2)

[Deodarthethird]

Yeah i am currently going down the route of a white dragon based theme, most of my spells are cold are brute force spells, or both. My DM has come up with a way to count my claws as magic weapons as well if i do go down the splatting things route, though im not sure as that would properly stunt my casting, leaving it at spell level 4 to go no higher. As for the Dracolexi, that seems to me to be the opposite in terms of trade of, i swap being able to go toe-to-toe with things for full casting abilities and the draconic words, all for the drop of one casting level. :smallfrown:

[Ranting Fool]

Yeah i am currently going down the route of a white dragon based theme, most of my spells are cold are brute force spells, or both.

There is a meta magic feat that changes spell energy type. So all "Fire" spells are now "cold" Iceball, Freezing Ray ect.

[Malachei]

what other feats to take?

Rapid Metamagic (for later, requires 12 ranks Spellcraft)

[Deodarthethird]

i might consider the energy substitution metamagic, but on the whole I want to stay away from metamagic feats, so rapid Metamagic would seem like a waste i think.

[Malachei]

i might consider the energy substitution metamagic, but on the whole I want to stay away from metamagic feats, so rapid Metamagic would seem like a waste i think.

Well, Rapid Metamagic allows for Quicken Spell to be used.

If you are playing this character for a long time, and expect to eventually reach higher levels of play, I'd take a closer look at metamagic.

[Deodarthethird]

Well, Rapid Metamagic allows for Quicken Spell to be used.

If you are playing this character for a long time, and expect to eventually reach higher levels of play, I'd take a closer look at metamagic.

Is metamagic that important at high end level play? I mean do you actually need it to function as part of a group at that level?

[Malachei]

Is metamagic that important at high end level play? I mean do you actually need it to function as part of a group at that level?

That depends on your group, and your game style. If you are playing with unoptimized melees and a DM who does not like to challenge you much, then you don't need it. I've seen games without much use of Metamagic, and there are some who say it is overrated. I'm tempted to say it plays a very important role. At high levels, you'll try everything to excel at the action economy. Especially as a caster, acting fast can make all the difference. So being able to get off two spells per round is a big advantage. It means winning or losing, and when winning, making sure your enemy is actually lying on the field (and not teleporting home).

And then there are numerous other things you can do with Metamagic. Twinning a spell means you save one action, and make it more likely your spell achieves the desired result. Also consider low-level uses: Your extended Rope Trick works for the full resting time earlier. Your Empowered Enervation is now a more serious debuff.

[Deodarthethird]

well the group I am playing with is mostly unoptimized at the moment. I was thinking of taking some other more fluffy feats but if it is a case that doing so will hamper me at later levels then I may reconsider. So what metamagics work best? keeping in mind i have max of four feats to spend on them?

[Malachei]

If I'd want to play the character for a while and possibly reach higher levels, I'd absolutely go for Quicken Spell (needs Rapid Metamagic). My two other choices would either be (Extend Spell + Persistent Spell) or two of Twin Spell, Empower Spell and Chain Spell.

There are many other good metamagic feats, and the best choice depends on the build, what spells are used most often and personal preference, of course. So this is no way advice that I'd considered the best choice all of the time.

[Deodarthethird]

well thanks anyway, will look into it and see what i can come up with. :smallbiggrin:

[Ranting Fool]

If I'd want to play the character for a while and possibly reach higher levels, I'd absolutely go for Quicken Spell (needs Rapid Metamagic). My two other choices would either be (Extend Spell + Persistent Spell) or two of Twin Spell, Empower Spell and Chain Spell.

There are many other good metamagic feats, and the best choice depends on the build, what spells are used most often and personal preference, of course. So this is no way advice that I'd considered the best choice all of the time.

All good choices :smallsmile:

Does/will your DM allow you to "Retrain" feats (A thing in PHB2)

Also remember that Rods of Meta Magic are very useful (though you don't get them till later level)

Never under value the use of simple meta magic feats like "Still Spell" and "Silent Spell" both are only +1 but can be very useful. Want to cast a useful buff while hiding from the BBEG or are you busy hanging on the edge of a cliff by your finger tips? :smallbiggrin:

Things like quicken spell and the like are very very useful but don't kick in till later due to the high level spell slot needed.

[ericgrau]

Metamagic doesn't break the game, metamagic reducers to get the same thing for less breaks the game. My favorite is empower but on sorcerers heighten and still are good too. Quicken is the best if you can find a way to get it on a sorcerer. Since extend is usually used on low level spells, a 3000 gp lesser rod of extend spell is usually a better deal than getting the feat. Dragon disciple is a melee class with a hint of sorcerer. You already have too much sorcerer and too little str to be good at melee so it's out.

Two of my favorite cold spells are sleet storm and wall of ice. You temporary disable part of the foes without a save to make the encounter much easier. Sleet storm is *huge* for hitting multiple foes. Wall of ice also deals a small amount of damage when they break free as a little bonus and sometimes can be used to form nice structures like bridges and ramps. Cone of cold is a nice huge blast if you can find a way to exclude allies or cast protection from energy on them well in advance. And it's the same shape as dragon breath.

[Knight13]

Personally, I think metamagic is even more important for sorcerers than it is for wizards. Sorcerers have lots of spells per day, but lack the versatility of a wizard because their spells are fixed. Therefore, having the ability to modify your spells to fit the situation makes up somewhat for that lack of versatility. Add in the fact that sorcerers can apply metamagic spontaneously instead of having to guess what they're going to need, like a wizard, and there's no reason not to use them. Yes, it's true that metamagic can be used to break the game (I'm looking at you, DMM Persist clerics and Locate City Bomb), but generally only if you intend to do so.

I highly recommend the Metamagic Specialist ACF from PHII, a first level ACF that lets you trade your familiar for the ability to cast metamagic'd spells as normal instead of as full-round actions. That's lets you use Quicken Spell without having to spend a feat on Rapid Metamagic.

[Malachei]

I highly recommend the Metamagic Specialist ACF from PHII, a first level ACF that lets you trade your familiar for the ability to cast metamagic'd spells as normal instead of as full-round actions. That's lets you use Quicken Spell without having to spend a feat on Rapid Metamagic.

Excellent advice, especially if you can live without a familiar (there are great things you can do with them). Also, you could pick up Obtain Familiar later on, possibly followed by Improved Familiar, but that is probably too feat-intense.

[Deodarthethird]

Excellent advice, especially if you can live without a familiar (there are great things you can do with them). Also, you could pick up Obtain Familiar later on, possibly followed by Improved Familiar, but that is probably too feat-intense.

Well that is off the cards as I already swapped out my first level for one in draconic sorcerer. As for metamagic, I think I'm going to pass, unless it is mandatory to keep up with the rest of the party (who are not optimising) then i think I would probably prefer something more flavourful, any ideas in that respect?

[Malachei]

Well that is off the cards as I already swapped out my first level for one in draconic sorcerer. As for metamagic, I think I'm going to pass, unless it is mandatory to keep up with the rest of the party (who are not optimising) then i think I would probably prefer something more flavourful, any ideas in that respect?

There's always Improved Initiative if you have no idea. A lot of people recommend it for casters (I normally don't).

Spell Penetration might be handy. Perhaps one of the reserve feats in Complete Mage, such as Minor Shapeshift, or, if that is too strong for your purposes, one of the others (Fiery Burst?).

If you have a white dragon lineage, you may consider to become a frost mage (Frostburn). Good prestige class with fine flavor, IMO.

[Ranting Fool]

There's always Improved Initiative if you have no idea. A lot of people recommend it for casters (I normally don't).

Going first is always nice, even if it is to just say "I wait till X goes" or "I ready X action"

There are a few Dragon related feats. Draconic Heritage Feats: In compleate Arcane. A few random ones are... oh wait you've gotten some :smallbiggrin: get more!

[Toliudar]

I'm sorry to offer another metamagic feat as an option, but it will really help keep you contributing at higher levels without particularly upping your overall power level (given the group you've described, a straight sorcerer is plenty powerful). The Piercing Cold feat will allow you to damage creatures resistant or immune to cold (as you go up in levels, there will be more of this, but even things like skeletons have it at low levels). With this, you don't have to worry about Energy Substitution.

If you're mostly doing blasty things, Draconic Power gives a reasonable bump without being overwhelming, and would let you access blindsense from Draconic Senses.

[Malachei]

I'm sorry to offer another metamagic feat as an option, but it will really help keep you contributing at higher levels without particularly upping your overall power level (given the group you've described, a straight sorcerer is plenty powerful). The Piercing Cold feat will allow you to damage creatures resistant or immune to cold (as you go up in levels, there will be more of this, but even things like skeletons have it at low levels). With this, you don't have to worry about Energy Substitution.

If you're mostly doing blasty things, Draconic Power gives a reasonable bump without being overwhelming, and would let you access blindsense from Draconic Senses.

Yes, and the Frost Mage gets (a significantly improved version of) Piercing Cold at level 4. If you're cold-themed, this might be a good PrC, unless you want something more draconic.

[eggs]

I think Dracolexi's a good idea. It's a fun class that's not too far off the base Sorcerer's power level, and it sounds like it fits the theme.

I usually toss Heighten onto low-op Sorcerers, just to let a handful of save-based spells stretch that extra bit further.

[Ranting Fool]

I usually toss Heighten onto low-op Sorcerers, just to let a handful of save-based spells stretch that extra bit further.

Also for the "Hahaha I am immune to your puny level 1-3 spells!"

*casts Heightened spell to level 4*

"No this can not be! I am invincible!"