Specific Antidote Craft.. how?

[Kerilstrasz]

I searched the forum, varius books about poisons and DmG / PhB..
although there are tons of info how to make poisons there is nothing about
how to make an antidote...
for example... i brew some Cyanide (injury, Craft DC 21,M.Price 2,100G) for
my arrows... but in case i roll a N1 and hit an ally...i need an antidote...
or in any case i may need it.. it doesnt matter..
how i craft it? is there a formula?

P.S : Obviously im not looking for a way around it like antitoxins or neutrlize poison in any form (scroll, spell, potion)

[Deodarthethird]

As far as I can see, it would be just the same as crafting the actual poison. After all anti-venoms and antidotes are just modified versions of the actual poison, well in most cases.

[Kerilstrasz]

well that makes kind of sence but...
although its "a modified version" of the actual poison... it lacks the actual poison's versatility... usually taking exmple from real life, an antidote or a vaccin or anything like that its a far less pottent version of the actual thing..
so.. maybe less mats? since there is no formula (or noone found a formula to paste here) is it a DM choice about the craft rules on that?

if there is no actual formula, can a DM reading this throw some ideas how to create a rule? atm im DMing and 1 or 2 of my players are going to use poisons... so... im thinking to create a formula using the followin as guidelines:
a) DC to create Antidote = 2/3 of poison
b) Mats to create antidote = 1/3 of poison mats
c) Time to create antidote = Same or double of poison

feel free to assist me in this in any prodactive way.. thnx :)

[Alefiend]

What's wrong with the Antitoxin alchemical item? A +5 on Fort saves versus poison should be all you need. Pretend that it's a specific antidote to cyanide if you really want to.

If you want something that instantly neutralizes and counteracts a real poison, you may as well go with magic, because real antidotes don't work that way.

[Kerilstrasz]

because real antidotes don't work that way.

Real antidotes, at least medical ones, supress the poison for as long your metabolism needs to reject it through natural means..
Those antidotes works only after you ve been poisoned and a very small collection of them can be taken before you get poisoned as precautious method and even then have an extremely short window of effectivness..
anyway.. real life isnt really the point here since we are supposed to follow some gaming rules..
i suppose you saw the initial statement that im not interested in a antitoxin or magical solution...

[Alefiend]

i suppose you saw the initial statement that im not interested in a antitoxin or magical solution...
Actually, I missed at least the antitoxin part of that—sorry for that. Deodarthethird appears to have a workable answer if you're not going to use something that's already in the game, so I'd go with that.

[Saito Takuji]

Real antidotes, at least medical ones, supress the poison for as long your metabolism needs to reject it through natural means...

mechanics workey wise you could make it a poision that has the opposite effect of the actual poison, with a special requirment of needing to be under the effects of the poison in the first place.... otherwise its a drug with negative concquences, and possible addiction

[Kerilstrasz]

mechanics workey wise you could make it a poision that has the opposite effect of the actual poison, with a special requirment of needing to be under the effects of the poison in the first place.... otherwise its a drug with negative concquences, and possible addiction

hey thats good... 2 poisons that counter each other...
so i have 2 poisons that are 2 antidotes... thats a really nice idea.. i think i ll go with that.. thnx

[Larpus]

The way I see it (and would DM it if it were me) goes as such:

The base check is Craft (alchemy), that's what used to make the poison so it only makes sense that's what's used to make the antidote, the base DC is the same as the poison itself, supposing you know which poison it is and how it's made. Also, use the same materials for the sake of simplicity.

The DC increases in case you're not sure which poison is it, how it's made or there's something different to it (say, a poison that is normally gas was in liquid form on the tip of an arrow).

And it decreases if you've created the poison yourself (so you know exactly how it was made and supposed to act) and/or you have a dose of it around so you have some basis to make your antidote from.

[Kerilstrasz]

The base check is Craft (alchemy), that's what used to make the poison so it only makes sense that's what's used to make the antidote,

well.. Craft Poisonmaking for our group as we have agreed its a seperate procedure and make it a houserule...

so antidote can fall in the same craft... thats nice too.. so.. i ll prolly have both of these and player can choose...
2 poisons.antidotes choice and yours..
i ll have to just sit and write those down in form of rule and i think im set.
:)