Need DMing help please...

[AscendantJim]

I have a player who uses every chance he can to find fault in my DMing, when my villains do anything which counters any special abilities of any of the players, he shouts"RAAAAAAILROADING!!!!!!!"

EXAMPLE:

DM\Me: You are in witch hunter city,(which I designed every part of about a month ago)
you meet a patrol of witch hunters
Von Hornenstein(Monk, 6): I KILL THEM DEAD!!!
DM\Me: what? you work for them!
Von Hornenstein: I KILL THEM!!
DM:*sigh* make an attack roll...
Von Hornenstein: (after some rolling, etc) I have killed them all!
DM:*sigh* so you have... You meet another patrol soon afterwards.
Von Hornenstein: Do they look easily killable?
DM: No, they*gets cut off*
Von Hornenstein: RAAAAAAAAAAILROADING!!!"
DM: No, they are just the elite squad...
Von Hornenstein: Huehuehueheu...
DM: Is there something in your throat?
Von Hornenstein: Heh,heh,heh...
Captain of the elites: Well, apparently the witch is in there...
Von Hornenstein: OK... Heh-heh-heh...
5 minutes later:

Von Hornenstein: I was the one who killed your boss!!! Bwa-ha-ha-haaaaa!

Meanwhile...
Sylan(Wererat halfling rogue, 7): Where am I?
DM: You are in a small metal oven, obviously intended to burn small animals that are counted as witches(Which I designed before the characters chose their classes, etc.): ie: were animals, etc,etc...
Von Hornenstein: "RAILROADING!!"
DM:...
Sylan(Who only ever uses lockpicking and hide): is there a lock?
DM: No, the oven door has been welded shut with some kind of magic!
Von Hornenstein: RAAAAAAAAAAAILROADING!!!!
Munt Dulf(Werebear barbarian witch hunter, 4): Nooooo! Free him, he is only misunderstood...
Witch hunter leader: So then, you would ally yourself with this witch creature?
Munt Dulf: Ummm... NO!
Witch hunter leader: Good... Turn up the heat
Von Hornenstein: I punch through the door of the oven!!!!!!
DM: Ok, make a roll...
Soon...

DM: So now through pure luck, you have escaped through 600 high level witch hunters, knocked out a 10th level fihgter in full plate, etc....
Von Hornenstein: Wait, Heh-heh-heh, I was beating up those elite witch hunters, wasn't I?
DM: Ok, then... None of that just happened...


Back in time...


Witch hunter leader: Turn up the heat!!!!!
Sylan: I search the room...
DM: You find a small hatch in the back...

After lots of cinematic stuff and Von Hornenstein yelling "RAAAAAAILROADING" a lot:

Witch hunter leader: I think we have bigger problems than a rat...

DM: YOU SEE A MASSIVE ARMY HEADING TOWARDS THE CITY
Von Hornenstein: RAIIILRO
DM leaves

[Ranting Fool]

Have you tried throwing a book at him? :smallbiggrin:
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I'm not joking :smallbiggrin:


Right well a large part of being a DM is Railroading/Guiding people towards some sort of plot. (Or else either nothing would ever happen or you just role random tables and just fight them) The better/more experienced DM will do this with a bit of subtlety and give the PC's some wiggle room.

Example:
Von Hornenstein(Monk, 6): I KILL THEM DEAD!!! (who does sound about 6) attacks a group of guards he can kill, fair enough. You are in a Witch Hunter city have the guards shout for help once they start losing, have the nearby peasants scream for help since Von hornenstein is murdering people and have that bring around the Elite patrol. Same thing happened but there is a good reason within the logic of the game world as to why some harder to kill guards turned up.

As for the Rogue in the oven... what oven has a Lock :smallbiggrin: if it was for burning evil people then either it'd be sealed with magic or have a big bar / rock on it. Oven doors get hot and so any lock on them would/could get damaged. (I do remember seeing a large pizza baking oven with a big metal latch to keep it closed)

either way if your players have an issue with your DM style or if they think you are Railroading too much (hey it happens to the best of us) then shouting "RAILROADING" should only earn them a book thrown at their head *Wonders if he is coming across far too violent* :smallcool:

[AscendantJim]

As for the Rogue in the oven... what oven has a Lock if it was for burning evil people then either it'd be sealed with magic or have a big bar / rock on it. Oven doors get hot and so any lock on them would/could get damaged. (I do remember seeing a large pizza baking oven with a big metal latch to keep it closed)
It was sealed with magic... As I said. I may have left out that Munt Dulf said "WITCH HUNTERS USING MAGIC!!!! THE WITCH HUNTERS HAVE BETRAYED THEMSELVES!!!"

[AscendantJim]

Have you tried throwing a book at him?
He is about 3 times my size:smalleek: So i am not going to throw a book at him:smallsmile:

[prufock]

What sort of advice are you requesting?

Simple answer: Do not play with this person. He is not there to play the game, he's there to be a disruptive jerk.

[Rift_Wolf]

Outside of the game, talk to this player and tell him that just because the players don't always get their way doesn't mean the DM is railroading. It makes sense for there not to be a lock on the INSIDE of a furnace. It makes sense that there's another way to clean out ashes etc from that furnace. It makes sense that if someone kills a bunch of guards, not only do more guards show up, but they might call in the SWAT team if the regular guards aren't cutting it. If he still has a problem with this, then ask him politely to leave the game. Remember as the DM you're supposed to have fun as well as the players, and from the sounds of it this guy is being a jerk for no other reason than the first thing the party tries doesn't work.

An example of railroading would be if the party were accused of witchcraft and there was no way they could escape imprisonment or death by easily-escapable-death-trap. No diplomacy, no fight, no bribes, nothing; you're going to prison, just to wait for a team of NPCs to perform a jailbreak.

Also, if a 6th level monk can take apart a team of guards single-handedly, maybe look at redesigning your guards? I'm not suggesting you min/max them or deliberately make them anti-monk monsters, that would be railroading. I'm suggesting guards are use to taking people in alive; it's perfectly acceptable for them to have the Improved Trip feat and manacles.

[AscendantJim]

Von Hornenstein(Monk, 6): I KILL THEM DEAD!!! (who does sound about 6) attacks a group of guards he can kill, fair enough. You are in a Witch Hunter city have the guards shout for help once they start losing, have the nearby peasants scream for help since Von hornenstein is murdering people and have that bring around the Elite patrol. Same thing happened but there is a good reason within the logic of the game world as to why some harder to kill guards turned up.and there was three of them, which he killed as soon as he leapt of them... Talking may be a free action, but I don't use that rule because I think it is ridiculous and foolish: For instance, I don't think you would get any dramatic last words if you were instantly incinerated by a massive fireball...

[Zubrowka74]

Wow, uninhibited AND delusional... Good luck with that!

[Kerilstrasz]

hmm... i suposse there were some attempt to talk the player out of it..
you know like.." Cmon man your makin it hard" etc etc..
well... have an Evil Npc cut off his tongue..or better, have an evil PC do that :P

or the other way.. have him find a weapon of his choice that would really wants to use that among others has the followin homebrew enchant:
Whenever the owner (or wielder) of this weapon talks anything louder than a whisper he gets 20% of his Max Hp as subdual damage..

or.. hmm.. have the party in a court like Rp encounter and as dissrespect punisment have a high lvl npc caster carse him to forever silence (this can be a hook to a quest to find a way to get his voice back some day)

[Righteous Doggy]

Different players have different ideas and limitations on railroading. Some DMs give you a 100% free world with none at all, and some players actually expect that if you would believe it. This guy though sounds kind of like a jerk. Shouting railroading is both paranoid and immature. If you talk to him and he's still disruptive and if he's ruining the fun of others and/or yourself, you may need to get rid of him... as much as I hate to say that. Or just finally end his toons life. Its not railroading if you commit atrocities and the town's elite gaurds just happen to want to stab you over it. Giving him what he wants is just going to reinforce his behavior isn't it?

[Rift_Wolf]

and there was three of them, which he killed as soon as he leapt of them... Talking may be a free action, but I don't use that rule because I think it is ridiculous and foolish: For instance, I don't think you would get any dramatic last words if you were instantly incinerated by a massive fireball...

He managed to kill 3 guards in 1 round? What race is he playing? Also, what alignment? Because even Lawful Evil would have compunctions against killing 3 guards for no other reason than 'I wanted to'.

Talking is a free action, not an immediate. If they had chance to take a swing, they had chance to shout for reinforcements or blow a whistle. If they were within the city, unless they were down a dark alley or something, someone would've seen the fight. There might not be any immediate repercussions, but eventually that squad of guards would be noticed as missing, and if anything it'd make a city of witch-hunters even more suspicious.

Also, witch-hunters are more than able to use magic to the ends of destroying other magic users. Necessary evil, fight fire with fire; if the witch-hunters can justify it to themselves, you don't necessarily have to justify it to the party. I probably wouldn't have used a magic lock on the furnace; you had an escape path through the cleaning grate available, and most furnaces don't have a means of opening them from the inside because any mechanism, even a latch, could melt and fuse the door shut.

[AscendantJim]

He managed to kill 3 guards in 1 round? What race is he playing? Also, what alignment? Because even Lawful Evil would have compunctions against killing 3 guards for no other reason than 'I wanted to'.

OK:

RACE:PURE LUCK(Human, he was lucky)
AlignmentChaotic evil(I changed the monk alignment rule after much nagging from: guess who!?)

[Tegannie]

AlignmentChaotic evil(I changed that after much nagging from: guess who!?)

How long has his alignment been chaotic? Because he can't gain levels as a monk if he's not lawful. Does he know this? You might mention that to him, and not allow him to take any more monk levels until his character's actions change enough to be lawful. (This won't work if he doesn't care about being a monk anymore, though)

[AscendantJim]

Von Hornenstein has decided to stop acting like a six year old with anger problems... His exact words were "Hurrah! Von Hornenstein has had a son and the psychopathy genes were diluted! (He was not quite as humorous as I thought he would be)"


Now I am happy, but on another topic, out of ten, how was my above DMing

ie: 5/10 6/10 etc.

[Rift_Wolf]

Von Hornenstein has decided to stop acting like a six year old with anger problems... His exact words were "Hurrah! Von Hornenstein has had a son and the psychopathy genes were diluted! (He was not quite as humorous as I thought he would be)"


Now I am happy, but on another topic, out of ten, how was my above DMing

ie: 5/10 6/10 etc.

Is this your first time DMing, or have you been doing it a while?

I'd say your DMing's pretty good; you aren't really railroading the party so much as putting them in situations that you've obviously thought about.
Did you talk with Von Horn outside of the game and talk to him about it? It can be tough to be assertive, especially if the person is bigger than you (I assume, anyway. I'm 6,5 and grant gnomes a dodge bonus), but remember you're there to have a good time as well. It doesn't do anyone any good to be vindictive if a players acting up (I would've been tempted to say 'Two iron tracks appear on either side of you. Before you have time to react, a gate opens 10ft away out of which bursts a steam engine at full speed, hitting you for 20d6 damage. Another gate opens and closes to take the engine away. When the party inspect your splattered and twisted remains, they find a small note saying 'Be careful what you wish for'.)

[Ranting Fool]

(I would've been tempted to say 'Two iron tracks appear on either side of you. Before you have time to react, a gate opens 10ft away out of which bursts a steam engine at full speed, hitting you for 20d6 damage. Another gate opens and closes to take the engine away. When the party inspect your splattered and twisted remains, they find a small note saying 'Be careful what you wish for'.)

Well I've been known to start a D&D game with the recap "So... right I Dragon pops up and eats you/kills you all! Time rewinds and we were... where? *Points to memeber to get them to remind everyone where we left things"
:smallbiggrin::smalltongue:

[AscendantJim]

Is this your first time DMing, or have you been doing it a while?

No, this is my first time DMing, so this is why I am asking for feedback...


Did you talk with Von Horn outside of the game and talk to him about it?
Yes, I did and he has decided to stop acting(and looking like while playing) this:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iMvajMqsi1o/Tn3K96UZW-I/AAAAAAAAARU/FRv7LFrAgmQ/s1600/beholder.jpg

:biggrin:

[AscendantJim]

Is this your first time DMing, or have you been doing it a while?

No, this is my first time DMing, so this is why I am asking for feedback...


Did you talk with Von Horn outside of the game and talk to him about it?
Yes, I did and he has decided to stop acting(and looking like while playing) this:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iMvajMqsi1o/Tn3K96UZW-I/AAAAAAAAARU/FRv7LFrAgmQ/s1600/beholder.jpg

:biggrin:

[Cavara]

DMing is hard and a learning experience, and it doesn't sound like you've done so bad so far. The real trick is to keep it interesting and you will occasionally have those people who are there to make your life difficult or who don't care about your campaign. If i can give any advice as a GM who has been doing this for awhile it would be this.

1: You are the GM and not them so technically over the book and whatever they argue the final say is cause i said so.

2: In continuation of point, one if the player isn't interested then thats too bad for them but you should probably replace them.

3: The story is vital. Adventuring is fun and all but the world should try to be living and flowing, give the players a decent amount of freedom but having an overarching plot is good to make them feel they are apart of something.

4: Settings are good (and you seemed to get this quite well). A city is nice but it shouldn't be the same as all the others. Different nations and regions should have a different identity and belief structure.

5: Finally, enjoy yourself. Your job as the GM is borderline ADD considering that you control the world and everyone in it save for 3-8 people. So you should make this entertaining for them but you should also make it entertaining for yourself.

From what i read i give your campaign an 8/10. Seems like you need to figure player restrictions better but that usually just comes with practice.

[nedz]

Well you seem to have resolved your first problem player incident (well time will tell with him I guess) which is good.

There is a chestnut of which you should be aware:

Von Hornenstein: "RAILROADING!!"
NPC: "What is this railroad of which you speak?"

It's good for any metagaming nonsense. Just have an NPC ask a question based on the non-game remark.

Or, in a similar vein:

Von Hornenstein: "RAILROADING!!"
DM: "METAGAMING!!"
:smallbiggrin:

[moritheil]

I have a player who uses every chance he can to find fault in my DMing, when my villains do anything which counters any special abilities of any of the players, he shouts"RAAAAAAILROADING!!!!!!!"

EXAMPLE:

DM\Me: You are in witch hunter city,(which I designed every part of about a month ago)
you meet a patrol of witch hunters
Von Hornenstein(Monk, 6): I KILL THEM DEAD!!!
DM\Me: what? you work for them!
Von Hornenstein: I KILL THEM!!
DM:*sigh* make an attack roll...
Von Hornenstein: (after some rolling, etc) I have killed them all!
DM:*sigh* so you have... You meet another patrol soon afterwards.
Von Hornenstein: Do they look easily killable?
DM: No, they*gets cut off*
Von Hornenstein: RAAAAAAAAAAILROADING!!!"
DM: No, they are just the elite squad...
Von Hornenstein: Huehuehueheu...
DM: Is there something in your throat?
Von Hornenstein: Heh,heh,heh...
Captain of the elites: Well, apparently the witch is in there...
Von Hornenstein: OK... Heh-heh-heh...

I want to correct you here. From what you say, you have someone claiming to be a player, who refuses to actually play along with the world the DM provides.

Guy wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in my old gaming groups. You must have a lot of patience.

[GnomeGninjas]

You may be railroading some, I can't tell. From the example given it doesn't seem like you are though there may be other things. If they players do something you didn't plan on do you have nothing interesting happen to them until they wander back on tracks because you have nothing else planned and you don't feel up to running a "random" encounter? I had a situation like this in a campaign I joined briefly a while ago I heard when I began that they had spent the last few sessions trying to figure out/stop a giant dog from murdering people, they had tried various methods, the DM let them try, though they all failed. I got the impression that the players were pretty bored and sick of it and the DM thought that they would have done what he had thought of to move the plot along though they hadn't and he didn't have anything else prepared/ random encounters thought of. There were also some problems with unbreakable walls, unfindable traps, and mental enslavement of the PCs to join the military with no save, however I don't think that you are doing stuff like that.

[AscendantJim]

and mental enslavement of the PCs to join the military with no save No... I am definitely not doing stuff like that... I believe that the main job of the DM is to make the game fun for the players, and to give them enough choice to make the game fun. I do not like to do too much railroading, as I believe it would ruin the players fun. But there is no accounting for taste!:smallsmile:

[GnomeGninjas]

No... I am definitely not doing stuff like that... I believe that the main job of the DM is to make the game fun for the players, and to give them enough choice to make the game fun. I do not like to do too much railroading, as I believe it would ruin the players fun. But there is no accounting for taste!:smallsmile:

That DM did ruin my fun, that's why I left. So its good you aren't doing stuff like that, I didn't think you would be being that bad my main point was that if they do something you weren't prepared for have a random encounter or something ready if it seems that the players are getting bored. I like what you say about what the DMs job is. Since I haven't actually seen you DMing I don't know for sure but it seems like you're doing a pretty good job.

[AscendantJim]

And also, when he is playing, he looks something like this:

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/252/me-gusta.jpg:biggrin: