Making money in mundane ways in D&D?

[Ranting Fool]

I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of the right book / handbook / personal houserule to help me make a guide for making money in D&D.

Please Note: This is not counting making money via big magic combos or even magic item crafting. And I know that an adventurer would make far more cash just going for a long walk in a dodgy neighbourhood and waiting for people to try and kill them.

But I'm looking for things like
"How much GP would owning an Inn generate, on average, per month"
"GP made from Mining out that Adamantine Vain they found in the Mine Of Doom"
"If they want to invest a bit of spare GP into a friendly NPC they saved from The Teddies Of Doom. What sort of % on their investment would be a good standard"

The reason I'm asking is that in the current campaign our heroes are in a rather boarder lands style place and they have expressed an interest in helping build up the local lands and maybe make a few coins on the side. I'm not looking for a huge amount of detail, just a general rule of thumb since any of these businesses would be run the Friendly Shopkeeper Of Doom (Hey everything else gets to be Of Doom)

Cheers for any help :smallbiggrin:

[Water_Bear]

Profession rules are in the SRD, as are Crafting rules for non-magical items.

Rules for owning a business are on p.180 of DMG II. I've heard that they can be easily exploited, but don't have any actual experience using those rules.

Strongholds from the 3.0 Stronghold Builder's Guidebook can generate income, usually enough to pay for the day-to-day expenses of said Stonghold.

Hope that helps! :smallsmile:

[Alleran]

Buy ten foot ladders and corner the ten foot pole market.

[Ranting Fool]

Profession rules are in the SRD, as are Crafting rules for non-magical items.

Rules for owning a business are on p.180 of DMG II. I've heard that they can be easily exploited, but don't have any actual experience using those rules.

Strongholds from the 3.0 Stronghold Builder's Guidebook can generate income, usually enough to pay for the day-to-day expenses of said Stonghold.

Hope that helps! :smallsmile:

exactly what I was looking for, cheers mate :smallbiggrin:

[Madcrafter]

The business rules in the DMGII are indeed somewhat exploitable, and very simplified. This is mainly due to the fact that skill checks are very easy to boost, and that is what your profit depends on, and because the characters could just go "We take 10 months off to make 20k gold" without actually having to kill anything to get it.

[Gavinfoxx]

The Tome rules offer an alternative to the DMG II business rules..

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dungeonomicon_%28DnD_Other%29/Economicon


And I always liked, as a mundane way of making money, growing and gathering herbs / fungus / etc., and then crafting poison -- (sleep smoke, drow poison [I think there is a stronger version of this somewhere??], lizardfolk sleep poison, wild dwarf knockout poison), and selling that as medical anesthetics to doctors and such.

[watchwood]

I had a character once in a campaign take leadership, and put all of the minions to work in a factory (and put the cohort in charge of things there while my character went out and adventured). That sort of thing works best in a campaign in a fixed area, but I was turning out quite a bit of gold that way each week.

[Ranting Fool]

I had a character once in a campaign take leadership, and put all of the minions to work in a factory (and put the cohort in charge of things there while my character went out and adventured).

That was kind of the idea that a player asked about, partly to make money but partly to help make an impact on the local area without spending all your time RP'ing Downtime. (One PC wanted to make a charity which gave out food in a rather cruel LE city)

[Ryulin18]

Be a con man.

Bottle a puddle of dragon piss. MAGIC HAIR GROWTH/WEIGHT LOSS!
Prestidigitation horse dung to be pink and taste like strawberries. YUM!
Burnt a troll to death? Sell it's ash as ANTI AGING FORMULA!

EVERYTHING GOT TO GO! ONE DAY ONLY!

[Ranting Fool]

Evil double post fairy attacked me

[Zonugal]

I'm always a big fan of ship construction via Knowledge (Architecture &Engineering).

[Ranting Fool]

I'm always a big fan of ship construction via Knowledge (Architecture &Engineering).

Half cost to build a ship? 1 day per 1000g?

[Karoht]

We were in a desert town. Surrounded by sand in all directions. And my bard? He wanted to really see if he could in fact sell sand to desert people.

What is a sap? It's a small leather pouch with sand in it, designed to stun people. And since the main ingredient, namely sand, was plentiful, they were cheap as cheap could be to make them.

So not only did he sell sand to desert people, but he sold saps to a bunch of saps.

Now all he has to do is sell some ice to some frost giants. I'm thinking icicle toothpicks. Big ones.


One of the cheapest things to make is masterworked clubs. The cost to make them is virtually nothing. They sell for good money, you can easily repurpose them as baseball bats and sell the sport, or fish bonkers for fishermen, or bludgers for a slaughtering house. Need a hammer? Use a club. Need a meat tenderizer? Use a club. Need a security device to protect your donkey and wagon? Club. Knights use swords, real men use a club. Why it's the product with a million uses. Everyone needs a thneed club.

But if you make them out of wood, watch out for fey people or druids who claim to call themselves loracks or lore axe or some such.

[gbprime]

I'm always a big fan of ship construction via Knowledge (Architecture &Engineering).

The only problem with making ships is that by the crafting rules, you can only reasonably expect to get 60gp worth of ship created each week. Working alone, and assuming you can routinely roll a 30 on your check, it would take 500 days and 10,000gp in parts to make a Galley, after which you net a 20,000gp profit.

No, the easiest money is (as previously stated) making ladders. It costs 2 copper pieces (rounded up) to make a ladder, and if you can roll that 30 on the craft check you can make 600 of them per week. Then you crack them in half, trim off the steps, and sell them as 10 foot poles for 2sp each. One week's work, total investment 30gp, sale value 240gp. Net profit 210gp. (Or half that if you routinely roll 15's on craft checks, which is more reasonable. Not that anything about this is reasonable...)

[King Atticus]

Performance Level (DC) Earnings (per day)
Routine performance (10) 1d10 Copper pieces
Enjoyable performance (15) 1d10 Silver pieces
Great performance (20) 3d10 Silver pieces
Memorable performance (25) 1d6 Gold pieces
Extraordinary performance (30) 3d6 Gold pieces
Incredible performance (DR330 p76) (40) 1d6 Platinum pieces
Legendary performance (DR330 p76) (50) 3d6 Platinum pieces

It's not exactly game breaking money but if you put on a performance you make this once a day.

Sleight of hand - juggling
Tumble - Acrobatics
Perform (whatever) - show of indicated type
Etc.

One skill check once a day in populated areas for some extra pocket-money isn't too shabby

[jackattack]

Bear in mind that all of those rules were probably written for a setting with a viable economy already in place.

And starting new businesses might make them some coin, but abandoning them when they go adventuring won't help the local economy.

Another way to go is to gather everything "extra" the locals have produced (crops, goods, minerals/metals, whatever) and get a merchant caravan going. When the nearest town or city realizes that there is a new market, a trade route will establish itself pretty quickly.

[Flickerdart]

A ship isn't a magic item, and doesn't follow those rules. It follows the Craft (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm) rules, which require only 1/3 cost worth of raw materials.

Assume that our goal is to build a 200,000 SP vessel. If we are your average shipwright (Middle-Aged Human expert 2: 5 ranks + 2 Int + 3 Skill Focus + 2 masterwork tools = +12 on a Craft (ship) check, average 22) building your average boat (DC20 for "complex or superior item") then we make 440 SP worth of progress every week. The ship will be done in 454 weeks, and fetch us a profit of 133,333 SP - or 293 SP per week, almost 30 GP. After subtracting costs of living (35 SP for a week's stay at an average inn, 63 SP per week for common meals = 98 SP per week) we're left with 19.5 GP of profit per week. Assuming that this guy can get a single investment of 66,666 SP to start with, he can make a tidy living, but it takes 9 years for him to build the ship by hand. With 195 SP per week left over, he can hire a ton of help to make things go smoother - 27 unskilled labourers (7 SP per week) can be in his employ. With +54 to his check from Aid Anothers (on average), the check totals 76. That means we can kick up the DC to 70, make 5320 SP of progress every week, and crunch out the ship in 38 weeks. A shipwright with such a task force makes 3508 SP in profit every week, less the 189 SP for wages of his labourers, for a tidy profit of 3319 SP weekly. Making this much cash, he can actually afford a stay at a good inn (14 GP weekly) and eat good meals (10.5 GP weekly). With the remaining money (3263 SP) he can hire 466 labourers to work on the ship, for +932 to his roll, for a total check of 954. Jacking up the DC to 950, he makes 906300 SP worth of progress weekly and now completes the ship in just over two weeks. He sells it for 133,333 SP profit, and makes 66,666.5 SP profit every week. With this money he can afford to hire 9488 labourers, who will give him a bonus of +18977, for a total check of 18999. If we jack up the DC to 18990, we make 360791010 SP of progress weekly, making 1803 ships per week (that's a ship every 5.5 minutes), increasing our profits to 240.5 million SP every week, meaning that we can hire more labourers...

If you have trouble getting new hires, just raise your wages. At ten times their wage (1 whole GP per day, triple what a skilled labourer makes) your 9488 workers will take away 0.66 million SP of your 240.5 million SP of profit. A drop in the bucket.

tl;dr - the more labourers you hire, the more money you will make. You don't need magic to break WBL, you just need a few thousand unskilled labourers and someone willing to front you the cash for the ship they want to buy and willing to wait 5 minutes while you "go get it".

[Deophaun]

If you're going to make money with Crafting, then either you do the ladder trick (which does require that you find someone to buy all those 10' polls), or you do it with painting, sculpting, gemcutting, or something similar. Why? Because these output art objects, which are trade goods and so sell at 100% market value (or are used directly as currency), as opposed to everything else which sells for 50%.

[MesiDoomstalker]

If you're going to make money with Crafting, then either you do the ladder trick (which does require that you find someone to buy all those 10' polls), or you do it with painting, sculpting, gemcutting, or something similar. Why? Because these output art objects, which are trade goods and so sell at 100% market value (or are used directly as currency), as opposed to everything else which sells for 50%.

While true about trade goods, not true about other products. The half price seelingthing is selling used items to a proprietor who will attempt to resell the item. Your a middleman in this situation. If you craft something and sell it directly to a customer, its for the agreed listed price. Your he propritor not the middleman anymore.

[MukkTB]

The sells at 50% value has always been annoying to me. Even a simple made up market will have more complexity than: Base prices are always the same. NPCs buy from PCs at 50% and sell at 100%.

#1 prices should fluctuate.
#2 Wolfsbane will be more expensive in the village being eaten by werewolves.
#3 Magic swords will be cheaper in the town of monks who craft magic swords than the town of dirt grubbing peasants.

Just for starters.

[Zonugal]

I merely suggested shipbuilding as my favorite because it serves as a secondary purpose for dropping skill points in Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering). I like the idea that my rogue, who has studied architecture & engineering as to find flaws in fortifications & buildings (for burglaries & sieges) can retire immediately into a job of designing large ships.

I mean even at five skill points, an intelligence of 14 & a masterwork tool, that Rogue can pump out a Dromond in six months. It'll cost you 18,750 gp to build it but you'll bring in 25,000 gp, and you only have to be there once every four days.

It is a pretty sweet deal...

[Righteous Doggy]

The sells at 50% value has always been annoying to me. Even a simple made up market will have more complexity than: Base prices are always the same. NPCs buy from PCs at 50% and sell at 100%.

#1 prices should fluctuate.
#2 Wolfsbane will be more expensive in the village being eaten by werewolves.
#3 Magic swords will be cheaper in the town of monks who craft magic swords than the town of dirt grubbing peasants.

Just for starters.

So, I'll pretend to grant your wish here... But wish granted! in a 364 page book that cost 50 dollars, with parameters for each item. No longer will you have to do that thinky thing with your brain. nor roleplay! Each item has its own page, with individual examples and situations to fluxuate prices! BUY NAO! < Sell that to adventurers maybe? hehe...

Anyways, as already stated, the srd and stronghold builders guide have tons of information on the subject. I like it best when you roleplay and nothing is ever the price in the book. Its much faster off the top of head, and I think its got a smoother feel to it than hunting numbers down in books.

[Ranting Fool]

The sells at 50% value has always been annoying to me. Even a simple made up market will have more complexity than: Base prices are always the same. NPCs buy from PCs at 50% and sell at 100%.

#1 prices should fluctuate.
#2 Wolfsbane will be more expensive in the village being eaten by werewolves.
#3 Magic swords will be cheaper in the town of monks who craft magic swords than the town of dirt grubbing peasants.

Just for starters.

I very often ad-lib price mods for stuff depending on demand.


Thank you all for the advice, the idea isn't so much to break the game but rather be able (if they choose to) invest in a small venture and make profit on this.

As a DM I'd allow you to make 429876523786 10ft Poles. But finding people to buy them, ah that would be a problem. Same thing for anything made to that scale without a very strong market for it (That said some evil Rogues might go around stealing everyone's poles each night :smallbiggrin: )

Same goes for the Ship building, very expensive so unless a nation wanted you to pump out a new fleet (Hey lets go invade that island over there!) then after you build a few the market will start to dry up (And even if those boats are sunk by EVIL pirates that look NOTHING like our builders they cost enough to be unable to replace after awhile)

My players wanted a big open world where things change and nothing is in a vacuum (Unless, you know it is) so if they tried any of that they'd be disappointed (unless they were very clever about making sure there is always a market for them)

[Zonugal]

Same goes for the Ship building, very expensive so unless a nation wanted you to pump out a new fleet (Hey lets go invade that island over there!) then after you build a few the market will start to dry up (And even if those boats are sunk by EVIL pirates that look NOTHING like our builders they cost enough to be unable to replace after awhile)

If only there was a way to instigate a naval war between kingdoms... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism#Spanish-American_War)

[Deophaun]

If you craft something and sell it directly to a customer, its for the agreed listed price. Your he propritor not the middleman anymore.
But you have to find someone to buy, which is up to the DM, not the player. Making trade goods places the demand side of the equation within the player's control.

[moritheil]

So, I'll pretend to grant your wish here... But wish granted! in a 364 page book that cost 50 dollars, with parameters for each item. No longer will you have to do that thinky thing with your brain. nor roleplay!

That's . . . a little harsh. :smalleek:


Anyways, as already stated, the srd and stronghold builders guide have tons of information on the subject. I like it best when you roleplay and nothing is ever the price in the book.

Oh man, thanks for reminding me about the Stronghold Builder's Guide! I wonder what I did with mine.


Its much faster off the top of head, and I think its got a smoother feel to it than hunting numbers down in books.

Only drawback: requires DM who can RL haggle. Might be a problem in some groups.

[Righteous Doggy]

@Mori yeah well, it wasn't meant to be serious. Thats just how I saw the request in my head... had to express it, and it had alot to do with my later statements. No offence to anyone. And I don't know if need to haggle, it might be more fun to play if you have no idea what to do! Never know, but its all entertainment in the end, and if you use common sense and damage control when you mess up it can lead to something awesome.

[watchwood]

That was kind of the idea that a player asked about, partly to make money but partly to help make an impact on the local area without spending all your time RP'ing Downtime. (One PC wanted to make a charity which gave out food in a rather cruel LE city)

The character concept was a wandering merchant - I used the collective minions to establish a base of operations in the party's home city, and just calculated the average income I made off of them per week. The DM set my total profit per week at the total average profession/whatever result in GP.

Unless the campaign takes a ridiculously long time, then it won't be anything game breaking compared to the WBL. You certainly do get a nice prize at the end when you come back from a couple weeks on the road, though. It's certainly not as bad as carting the all the guys around and using them as an army.

[Alienist]

Cool story bro. :D



One of the cheapest things to make is masterworked clubs. The cost to make them is virtually nothing.


//insert Dwight meme: FALSE

Technically a masterwork weapon costs I think 300gp + the materials cost. In this case the materials cost is 0, which means you still need to raise the 300gp.

For an even more ridiculous ratio, try a masterwork Staff. Because it is a double weapon, you pay the masterwork cost twice. Yikes.

Anyway, a general formula for crafting (assuming the use of taking 10) is:

(skill check + 10) x (skill check + 10) / 10 expressed as GP per week.

E.g. if you have +10 to your craft skill (int bonus, some ranks, masterwork tools will get you there, possibly a racial bonus as well) then your formula is twenty squared divided by ten.

Or

(10+10) x (10+10) / 10

So 40 gp per week.

At that rate it will take 15 weeks to make the Masterwork staff, or 8 weeks to make a Masterwork club.

If you can bump your skills up a bit, to say +20 then you're looking at 30 x 30 /10 = 90gp per week. Which is not bad, but you should be able to get it higher than that. If you really go for it (including using spells/items for stat boosts and skill boosts, but not including GotA) then at relatively low levels you can hit +30, and be making 160gp per week.

+40 would be 250gp per week. The progression should be obvious:

+10 = 40gp
+20 = 90gp
+30 = 160gp
+40 = 250gp
+50 = 360gp

(etc)

[JoeYounger]

Any tom-foolery out there for the profession skill? Id like to be a brewer in my next campaign, (low mqgic, low money, slow progression pf) but a week seems a long time to take off to make 18 gold :(.

[Flickerdart]

Not really. The nice thing about Profession is that Prof (Sailor) and Prof (Siege Engineer) are both useful outside of making a pittance.

[Tolan Axender]

One thing I'm considering doing is becoming a recursive Thrallherd - which basically means all of my high-level Thralls are themselves Thrallherds with their own Thralls, continuing downwards until I end up with (my best estimate) about 6000+ (in)directly controllable minions at level 19, with the vast majority of them (~5000) being level 1 NPCs.

This is basically a small town, so I was considering having all 6000+ of my minions setting up "shop" next to a busy caravan route one day, essentially founding a city instantaneously. My next task would be to estimate how much they would make using Profession / Craft checks as I go around adventuring... or just warring against my neighbors as I'm off in the Astral plane or something. :smallbiggrin:

[Madcrafter]

http://www.novarata.net/Thread_Necromancy.jpg
Vile necromancy! Check the last post date next time. Maybe start a new thread.