[PF] Shaman Druid archtypes?

[RndmNumGen]

I want to make a Druid/Ranger with the Shapeshifting Hunter feat that focuses on fighting in melee while Wildshaped. Considering Wildshape will be a large component of the build, I'm thinking about taking one of the Shaman archtypes. I'm not sure which one I should take though. Saurian? Snake? Bear? Lion? Has anyone had experience with these?

[grarrrg]

I want to make a Druid/Ranger with the Shapeshifting Hunter feat that focuses on fighting in melee while Wildshaped. Considering Wildshape will be a large component of the build, I'm thinking about taking one of the Shaman archtypes. I'm not sure which one I should take though. Saurian? Snake? Bear? Lion? Has anyone had experience with these?

The problem with the X-Shamans is that they don't get any Wildshape until level 6. When they do they count as +2 levels for Wildshape power _IF_ they use the associated X-form. Otherwise they count as level -2.

My advice? Unless you need/want the Druid levels for other things, take only 4 levels of Druid and the Shaping Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shaping-focus) feat. Your 4 Druid levels will count as (up to) 8 Druid levels, which gets you to Huge-Beast 3, Medium-Elemental 2, or Medium Plant 1.
As long as you're focusing on Beasts, Druid 4 is all you'll need.


Also, consider the World Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/world-walker) archetype for Druid. That way you don't lose any Favored Terrain progression either.

[RndmNumGen]

The problem with the X-Shamans is that they don't get any Wildshape until level 6. When they do they count as +2 levels for Wildshape power _IF_ they use the associated X-form. Otherwise they count as level -2.

My advice? Unless you need/want the Druid levels for other things, take only 4 levels of Druid and the Shaping Focus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/shaping-focus) feat. Your 4 Druid levels will count as (up to) 8 Druid levels, which gets you to Huge-Beast 3, Medium-Elemental 2, or Medium Plant 1.
As long as you're focusing on Beasts, Druid 4 is all you'll need.


Also, consider the World Walker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/world-walker) archetype for Druid. That way you don't lose any Favored Terrain progression either.

Ah, that does sound useful. Thanks. I think I may go that route instead. So then... something like Druid 4/Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Druid X then?

[ScubaGoomba]

One of my players is a Saurian Shaman and we haven't had any real issues with it in game. The Totem Transformations are all very useful and the extra power on his Wild Shapes are also a nice bonus.

It's worth pointing out that, as we've been implementing the rules, Wild Shape still starts at level 4, but the progression staggers at level 6 (lizards/dinosaurs jump up two levels while everything else stays at level 4).

If you decide to go Shaman, I think Bear Shaman might be a good pick. The Totem Transformation can net you three attacks (one bite and two claws) in a round which, at the early levels of gameplay (it's a level 2 ability) is quite useful. Eagle Shaman would also be nice for the access to flight in Totem Transformation.

[Stone Heart]

One of my players is a Saurian Shaman and we haven't had any real issues with it in game. The Totem Transformations are all very useful and the extra power on his Wild Shapes are also a nice bonus.

It's worth pointing out that, as we've been implementing the rules, Wild Shape still starts at level 4, but the progression staggers at level 6 (lizards/dinosaurs jump up two levels while everything else stays at level 4).

If you decide to go Shaman, I think Bear Shaman might be a good pick. The Totem Transformation can net you three attacks (one bite and two claws) in a round which, at the early levels of gameplay (it's a level 2 ability) is quite useful. Eagle Shaman would also be nice for the access to flight in Totem Transformation.

I want to emphasize that point, its something people often miss about them. This is RAW.

I also want to add that I feel the Saurian Shaman is the most versatile. Whereas the Bear or Wolf shaman can turn into a bear or wolf respectively, the Saurian can turn into a lot. We are in a canyon and facing flying enemies? Pterodactyl. Going underwater? Elasmosaurus. I want to be a T-rex? I am a T-rex.

Edit: Huh, I actually can't seem to find any rules for a pterodactyl in pathfinder, did I miss them? Or was I just playing with someones house rules?

[Larpus]

Edit: Huh, I actually can't seem to find any rules for a pterodactyl in pathfinder, did I miss them? Or was I just playing with someones house rules?
Pterodactyl is sooooooo first Power Rangers season, they go by pterosaur (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/pterosaur) now.

[grarrrg]

Pterodactyl is sooooooo first Power Rangers season, they go by Terrorsaur (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Terrorsaur_%28BW%29) now.

Fixed that for you :smallwink:

[RndmNumGen]

Pterodactyl is sooooooo first Power Rangers season, they go by pterosaur (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/pterosaur) now.

Huh. So since those aren't technically dinosaurs, would Saurian wildshape into them at -2? Or would it be +2 because they're prehistoric?

[Larpus]

Huh. So since those aren't technically dinosaurs, would Saurian wildshape into them at -2? Or would it be +2 because they're prehistoric?
+2, the keyword being reptiles:

At 6th level, a saurian shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level –2. If she takes on the form of a reptile or a dinosaur, she instead uses her druid level +2.

Pterosaurs are often found in regions where dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures are commonly encountered, yet they are not dinosaurs themselves. The pteranodon is the most well known and widespread of these flying reptiles, [...]

[Stone Heart]

I was a bit confused on that to, because on the srd it only mentions them being reptiles or dinosaurs in the flavor text. However, I feel any reasonable gm would allow a Pterosaur for a Saurian shaman.

[ScubaGoomba]

I want to emphasize that point, its something people often miss about them. This is RAW.

I also want to add that I feel the Saurian Shaman is the most versatile. Whereas the Bear or Wolf shaman can turn into a bear or wolf respectively, the Saurian can turn into a lot. We are in a canyon and facing flying enemies? Pterodactyl. Going underwater? Elasmosaurus. I want to be a T-rex? I am a T-rex.

Edit: Huh, I actually can't seem to find any rules for a pterodactyl in pathfinder, did I miss them? Or was I just playing with someones house rules?

Saurian Shaman really is great. Our Druid only recently got his Wild Shape ability and has been a bit hesitant to use it, but the utility is phenomenal. As you've said, you have more options than just "wolf" or "bear," plus you can do any kind of lizard, not just dinosaurs. It's also nice not being limited so much when not Wild Shaped as a dinosaur or lizard. Maybe you're in a situation where you don't want to draw a whole lot of attention to yourself and, well, turning into a dinosaur isn't exactly a good way to do that. Turning into a rat, however, is, and you don't suffer the -4 level penalty that comes with most other shamans.

[grarrrg]

Turning into a rat, however, is, and you don't suffer the -4 level penalty that comes with most other shamans.

? Umm...
Saurian Shaman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/saurian-shaman):

At 6th level, a saurian shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level –2. If she takes on the form of a reptile or a dinosaur, she instead uses her druid level +2.

[ScubaGoomba]

? Umm...
Saurian Shaman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid-archetypes/saurian-shaman):

Correct. I'm not sure where the confusion is? Although I will admit to misremembering and the Dragon Shaman is the only one that actually gets a -4 level adjustment to Wild Shape.

[Mustard]

I quite liked my experience, however short, just a couple sessions, with Saurian Shaman. So I'm going to have to do that again at some point.

I know domains are usually frowned upon, but I picked the Fire domain, and there's a little something special in casting a Wall of Fire for a little divide-and-conquer, shifting into an allosaurus, pouncing, grappling, and then shoving your prey into the aforementioned wall.

[grarrrg]

Saurian Shaman ...Turning into a rat, however, is, and you don't suffer the -4 level penalty that comes with most other shamans.


Correct. I'm not sure where the confusion is? Although I will admit to misremembering and the Dragon Shaman is the only one that actually gets a -4 level adjustment to Wild Shape.

The confusion was 'Saurian Shaman not having a level penalty to shape into a rat'.
They do have a level penalty, and I took the "-4" to mean the net difference between +2 Dino and -2 Not Dino.
Regardless, Saurians DO have a penalty when shaping into Rats.

As for why Dragon Shamans get a HUGE penalty with NO bonus...
Paizo is bad as details like that.

[RndmNumGen]

As for why Dragon Shamans get a HUGE penalty with NO bonus...
Paizo is bad as details like that.

It's because their Dragon shamans, duh! Dragons are cool! And they can turn into reptiles as well, which is really powerful!

Whats that? Saurians also turn into reptiles? And Dragon Shamans can't actually turn into dragons? So they're... lizard shamans? Oh...

[Laniius]

I can't find the source, but the guy behind the shaman druid tentatively (VERY tentatively) endorsed the option of adding the giant or young templates to your animal forms, as an exception to the rule that you can't wildshape into anything with a template.

Under 3.5 this would have been a bad idea as it would make things really powerful, but in PF all it does is change the animal's size. As your stats in animal form are affected by size rather than anything else, it opens up some options for your druid form. For instance, it means that wolf shaman stays viable when you get access to huge wild shape forms.

My personal favorite idea for my shaman druid, if and when I make one, is to be an Ape shaman. Once I hit level 6 (so I could wild shape into apes as a level 8 druid) I'd take at some point the Wild Speech feat and always be in ape form. I'd even have armor crafted for the ape form. I'd be an ape who sometimes turned into a gnome, rather than a gnome who sometimes turned into an ape.