Help me optimize a Child of Khyber shounen hero in D&D 3.P

[JadePhoenix]

I'm helping a friend with his new character. He wants to play an archetypical shounen hero - someone who never gives up, is not very bright but has some street smart and is very hard to take down. He doesn't want to cast spells, but said 'passive magical abilities' are fine. He also mentioned he wanted to be young and human (or in an antropomorphic animal race).
I told him I'd help, but now that I think about it, I'm not sure how. I imagine he should have high hit points, but that does not seem enough to represent a shounen hero's unwillingness to give up.
I'm thinking Warblade, Crusader or even Warblade/Crusader, obviously with Iron Heart Surge.
Anyone knows of any D&D element (Pathfinder works as well) that fits this concept?

My friend called - he wants to play this class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20070416a), while still being "really tough".
Our game is not in Eberron, but apparently he already talked to the DM and the marks are going to be fluffed as 'mysterious arcane tattoos'. He even waived the 'non-good' requirement.
So basically, he wants:

To be a Child of Khyber
To have a lot of hit points
To have good saving throws
To have some passive immunities and defenses
He has to be Human


I'm thinking Warblade 4/Child of Khyber 3 is a good starting point. Paladin immunities would help, but I think between Quick Recovery and Iron Heart Surge (which would need to be taken through a feat in the aforementioned setup)

Any suggestion on which spells he should choose for his dragonmarks? I jave no idea how to help here, he is a new player (I don't even know how he found Child of Khyber... this is the first time I get to see that class!)

Thx everyone who's helped so far!

The character is supposed to at level 7. All 3.5 and Pathfinder books allowed, Dragon Magazines as well.

EDIT: Also, we have a game tomorrow, so I'm kind of freaking out here...

[Pilo]

Well you had a good idea.

I think ToB classes are good, otherwise you can go with Incarnate or Totemist, but they are closer to caster than ToB classes.

[Morph Bark]

Spell-less Paladin works too.

Barbarians never give up either and can be hard to take down.

A Bard/Crusader covers both the street smart and hard to take down bits. And he fights for his friends!

[Doorhandle]

Not helpful because it's not, strictly speaking, 3.5, but legend has a Vigalante multiclass track that's pretty much perfect for this and superheros of all kinds.

[NNescio]

I'm helping a friend with his new character. He wants to play an archetypical shounen hero - someone who never gives up, is not very bright but has some street smart and is very hard to take down. He doesn't want to cast spells, but said 'passive magical abilities' are fine. He also mentioned he wanted to be young and human (or in an antropomorphic animal race).
I told him I'd help, but now that I think about it, I'm not sure how. I imagine he should have high hit points, but that does not seem enough to represent a shounen hero's unwillingness to give up.
I'm thinking Warblade, Crusader or even Warblade/Crusader, obviously with Iron Heart Surge.
Anyone knows of any D&D element (Pathfinder works as well) that fits this concept?

The character is supposed to at level 7. All 3.5 and Pathfinder books allowed, Dragon Magazines as well.

PF Fighter, Unbreakable archetype? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/unbreakable)

'That's pretty much the archetype's intended shtick, but the actual execution is... weaker than the ToB classes, 'though it is easier to use, with less active abilities.

Still, getting IHS is a must for any shounen hero. He can combine PF classes with 3.5 feats, right?

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Warblade1, Psychic Warrior2, monk2, Warmind10, Warblade5
Most important feat: Tashalatora (Warmind)

I hope this does not need any explaination.

Otherwise, THIS:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708

[Cespenar]

Crusader 7. Okay? Okay.

Also, pick up White Raven Tactics and fluff it as him throwing an ally at an enemy.

[JadePhoenix]

Warblade1, Psychic Warrior2, monk2, Warmind10, Warblade5
Most important feat: Tashalatora (Warmind)

I hope this does not need any explaination.
Actually, it does. I imagine it's more resistant because of Vigor, but what does Monk do in this build?


Otherwise, THIS:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708
I love that handbook ^^
We already have a claw-lock going for the Sesshoumaru build, actually.



PF Fighter, Unbreakable archetype? (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/unbreakable)

'That's pretty much the archetype's intended shtick, but the actual execution is... weaker than the ToB classes, 'though it is easier to use, with less active abilities.

Still, getting IHS is a must for any shounen hero. He can combine PF classes with 3.5 feats, right?
Thanks for the suggestion, NNescio. If we were restricted to Pathfinder, I'm sure that would be the better option. However, between Crusader delaying damage, healing through Devoted Spirit and Iron Heart Surge, as you said yourself, I think ToB is still better. I mean, both Heroic feats are basically toned down IHS, after all. I think Quick Recovery would be a good feat for him as well.


Not helpful because it's not, strictly speaking, 3.5, but legend has a Vigalante multiclass track that's pretty much perfect for this and superheros of all kinds.
You're right, that's not helpful.


Spell-less Paladin works too.

Barbarians never give up either and can be hard to take down.

A Bard/Crusader covers both the street smart and hard to take down bits. And he fights for his friends!
Paladin would be helpful, for both lay on hands and divine grace. Between Divine Grace, Iron Heart Surge and Quick Recovery, he will be really hard to shut down.

It looks like it will be Paladin 2/Crusader 5, after all. Or would Paladin 3/Crusader 4 work better, due to Aura of Courage and Divine Health? (IHS needs to come from a feat anyway)

[Big Fau]

Paladin would be helpful, for both lay on hands and divine grace.

Lay on Hands won't be that useful because you are multiclassing.

[deuxhero]

Crusader 7. Okay? Okay.

Also, pick up White Raven Tactics and fluff it as him throwing an ally at an enemy.

Crusaders don't get Iron Heart, the school focused on kicking reason to the curb and going beyond the impossible (raw raw fight the power).

[marcielle]

Warblade1, Psychic Warrior2, monk2, Warmind10, Warblade5
Most important feat: Tashalatora (Warmind)

Monk 2 speeds up the build featwise, bumps saves and nets you evasion while not really losing much. You lose powers known but since half your PP will normaly be spent on expansion, that's not that huge a loss. With this build, you just go Markarov on people most of the time.

Rangers are pretty hard hitting class with good hit die and casting can be traded off for wildshape.

Totemists basically stack 'passive' magic all over, turning them into monsters. If you are using PF rules, they become more powerful as all their claws and bites no longer take -5s IIRC.

[Cespenar]

Crusaders don't get Iron Heart, the school focused on kicking reason to the curb and going beyond the impossible (raw raw fight the power).

Martial Study (Iron Heart Surge). Crusader allows you to fulfill the rest, which is taking the hits but having the strength to go on regardless, aka being a good tank.

[Urpriest]

What about the Giant's Champion class? Homespun hero who occasionally transforms into big shiny hero?

[Morph Bark]

It looks like it will be Paladin 2/Crusader 5, after all. Or would Paladin 3/Crusader 4 work better, due to Aura of Courage and Divine Health? (IHS needs to come from a feat anyway)

Keep in mind that Divine Grace and the Crusader's Cha to Will saves don't stack with each other. Furthermore, Lay on Hands, if you take enough Paladin levels for it, won't be effective enough due to multiclassing, as was said before. Keep in mind also that you need two feats to get IHS due to maneuver prereqs.

[The-Mage-King]

Paladin (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=s5ude54g67f6730vndqdhj4470&topic=10832.msg369941#msg369941), I'd say. :smalltongue:


Or a Warblade/Psion multiclass, levels differing based on caster-iness of the ideal.


OOh! Or Ardent/Swordsage! Nets decent abilities of both types, after all!

[JadePhoenix]

What about the Giant's Champion class? Homespun hero who occasionally transforms into big shiny hero?

That's not what he is looking for, actually. But thanks nonetheless.


Keep in mind that Divine Grace and the Crusader's Cha to Will saves don't stack with each other. Furthermore, Lay on Hands, if you take enough Paladin levels for it, won't be effective enough due to multiclassing, as was said before. Keep in mind also that you need two feats to get IHS due to maneuver prereqs.

I had forgotten completely about Crusader's Cha-to-saves.
Maybe Paladin/Warblade would be a better idea, or some Paladin-esque prestige class with similar immunities...

[The-Mage-King]

After a minute of thought...Warblade/Wilder sounds about right. Pick up Vigor and some other support powers, and it should be about right. Vigor is Heroic Resolve, Precog is instinct saying "DOOOOODDDDDDGGGGGGEEEEEEEE!", and so on.

I'd say about 7 levels of Wilder should be enough, with the rest being Warblade.

[JadePhoenix]

Omg, looks like everything changed! (well, not everything)
My friend wants to play a Child of Khyber (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20070416a) now. The class does look interesting (and very shounen-manga-like... it even has a Dangerous Forbidden Technique as a capstone!) but I don't know much about it and any help would be greatly appreciated. I've updated the OP with the relevant info...

[Morph Bark]

Omg, looks like everything changed! (well, not everything)
My friend wants to play a Child of Khyber (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20070416a) now. The class does look interesting (and very shounen-manga-like... it even has a Dangerous Forbidden Technique as a capstone!) but I don't know much about it and any help would be greatly appreciated. I've updated the OP with the relevant info...

Well, you can at least remove the "hero" part from the title now, considering he has to be nongood.

[marcielle]

:smallbiggrin:
Rules abuse tiem. A 5th level spellthief can steal SLAs. Dragonmarks are SLAs. You can steal them off yourself for nigh infinite use. Not really the shounen hero type, but might as well throw it out there.

Guide to Dragonmarks (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1072.0)

Are you using PF or 3.5 feat levels? Dragonmarks are suddenly 20% more awesome with PF feat levels.

Cru's quicky Dragonmark builds:
Aberrant rager
barb 4/child 4
1 aberrant dragonmark
3 aberrant dragonmark vigor
6 dragonmark rage
9 aberrant reach (lords of madness) CL9
4 x shield (rod extended 18 minutes, 500 gp)
2 x vampiric touch (4d6)
2 x enervation
* fast healing 3 while raging
* as immediate action, sac DM to get 8 temp hp
* If all aberrant DM feats are treated as [Aberrant], this character can get nice benefits from further [Aberrant] feats (Lords of Madness).

Fiery Blaster
any 4/child 4 CL11
1 aberrant dragonmark
3 quicken dragonmark
6 quicken dragonmark 4x quickened burning hands
3x quickened empowered scorching ray
1x flamestrike
gear: dragonmark focus +2 CL (3k), empower channeling rod lesser (4,5k)

Halfling Healbot
any 4/heir 5 CL15
1 favored
3 least dragonmark
6 dragonmark mastery
9 dragonmark visionary CLW 4x
CSW 3x
heal 3x
panacea 2x
* spend action point to use dragonmark as an immediate action
* gear: dragonmark rod (healing) 55k (with party contribution); altar of resurrection 13k

Halfelf perceptor
CL14
any 4/heir 4
detect magic 5x, see invis 3x, true seeing 1x
diadem of sharpened senses 10k: least at will, lesser extra use, skill bonuses

Mobile mundane
any 4/heir 4 (CL14)
dimension leap 4x, ddoor OR phantom steed 3x, overland flight or teleport 1x
least channeling rod, quickening, 6k - can quicken dimension leap 3xday

[JadePhoenix]

Well, you can at least remove the "hero" part from the title now, considering he has to be nongood.

The DM waived that requirement... and there are plenty of nongood heroes around (say, The Punisher or Rorschach).
Think he'll be going for Spell-less Paladin 4/Child of Khyber 3. Game is in a few hours... hope it will be good!

[marcielle]

Really, the barbarian looks like the simplest build and is a good match for the initial request of unwilling to give up between tons of innate healing and health from rage. It's also one of the few times you can take the diehard feat as the second you heal you go up to 0 first before gaining hp so it's as if you are constantly determinating your way through fatal wounds.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

but what does Monk do in this build?
What Marcielle said, but there is much more:
Read "tashalatora" feat from Secrets of Sarlona.

[JadePhoenix]

He ended up using Paladin entry. Shounen toughness is gained mainly through Con 19 and Aberrant Dragonmark Vigor (expend dragonmark use to get your level as temp hp as an immediate action), Divine Grace, Child of Khyber's good saves and the Quick Recovery feat. I suggested he dipped Warblade after finishing Child of Khyber, but we'll see.