Question of mating...

[agentnone]

Strange topic, I know, but it's something that happened in my campaign this past week and will be part of the post-campaign ending thingy. Let me sum up a little bit of what happened and I'll go from there.

We're playing in a Pathfinder game with the Core Rulebook, Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat books available. I DM this campaign and use all three monster books and GM Guide.

The party is chasing down a half-fiend BBEG, saving the world and all that typical 'hero stuff'. However, this half-fiend's sister, who is a Tiefling, opposes what her brother is doing, yet doesn't want the party to kill him. He's still her brother, afterall. Anyway, she has a thing for the Paladin in the group, and her motives are two fold. First, he's the moral beacon for the group and in her mind, swaying him may save her brother from being killed. And second, upon realizing she was a Tiefling, he was the only party member to be kind to her and give her the benefit of the doubt regarding the campaign. Took him awhile to sway the rest of the party to trust her. She has no intention of hindering the party short of not telling them everything regarding her brother. But she's been a trustworthy ally with about 10 levels in Cleric (no deity).

The Paladin is an Aasimar. As a player, he's pretty chill and laid back and doesn't really care what happens in the campaign. As a character, he stays true to the LG sentiment of Imodae (his deity of choice). However, nothing saying that he couldn't get "involved" with anyone.

The campaign is coming to an end, and the Paladin is aware of this. Finally, after months of roleplay, he gave in and "hooked up" with said sister before heading off to the end of the campaign. Everyone else at the table, myself included, would like to see the sister get pregnant with his child. We all think it would be kind of comical as well as provide a nice, convenient link to another campaign in the future. The problem I'm having is what kind of child would a Tiefling and Aasimar have? I've looked over the monster books, and I thought about taking a normal human and giving them a few things from the Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial templates, but I don't think it would be ideal. Anyone out there have any ideas/suggestions? I do have access to pretty much any WotC books out there, even though they arent used in the campaign, they may have a good place to start. Any ideas on this? Thanks in advance.

[limejuicepowder]

Really, the child should just have the aasimar and teifling template - heavenly and demonic heritage. This kind of sucks if the character is actually going to be played since it would come with a +2 LA, but that's up to you.

[agentnone]

In Pathfinder they aren't templates. Both monster entries have stats set aside for use as player characters, and neither of them have any LAs. In fact, PF did away with LA using the monster's CR rating as it's LA. But in the monster book they both have a CR 1/2, making them ideal as a playable race. Mixing the two races would make it a little over powered for what I'm looking for.

And no, he wouldn't be playing it. If anything, it would be parent or grandparent of one of the characters in the new campaign. I'm not sure on that part yet though, depends on how I'm able to solve this dilemma first.

Edit: I'd be ok with something homebrew so long as it didn't have anything more than a +1 LA if anyone's made anything like this already.

[Kol Korran]

i don't think there are quick and "rule legal" answers to this. i'm no expert on pathfinder, but my thoughts are as follows:

- since this will only matter if the child will be played by a future player, postpone the resolution till that point. meantime, as the child, it looks oddly... normal, like a normal child. but those sensitive (perhaps parents, perhaps an oracle/ priest/ whatever) sense there is something... odd, a power to him/ her. this way you keep the child as an intriguing enigma till you actually get to play the character, perhaps you will get better ideas, perhaps some relating to the future campaign by then. that said...

- when you actually build him, i suggest to make him something different- NOT add up celestial and infernal heritages nor cancel them out. have this strange progeny prove something stange and perhaps disturbing. perhaps some sort of an eberrational influence? (why fiend and angel must NEVER mix?), perhaps some dimensional power (like dimension hop/ dimension door or blinking?), or perhaps some sort of metamoprhisis to something that is nether devil nor angel, but something... quite else?

[Ashtagon]

Take the aasimar and tiefling stats, and mashup something halfway between the two.

Based on:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/aasimar
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/tiefling

Maybe:

* Half-aasimar half-tiefling (egregoroi)
* +2 to one of Dexterity, Intelligence, or Wisdom.
* 30 foot speed
* darkvision 60 feet
* acid resistance 2, fire resistance 2, cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5
* Skilled: +2 to any two of Bluff, Diplomacy, Perception, or Stealth (choose which two at character creation)
* Spell-like ability: Egregoroi can cast either darkness or daylight once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equals the class level).
* Languages: Egregoroi begin knowing common and one of Celestial, Abbysal, or Infernal. Egregoroi with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Abyssal, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Infernal, Orc, and Sylvan.

[Cwymbran-San]

If this child is to become a PC sometime later, i would leave the decision to the player. Take the Bloodlines from UA for devil and celestial bloodlines, combine them (one ability from fiend, on from angel, one from fiend...you get the idea) and let the player choose, how far along this road he wants to send his character.
So, he would start out as a normal looking human, but as he develops, he expresses more and more attributes of his shared heritage.

Oh, and no LA here :smallsmile:

[prufock]

Possibilities

- The two cancel each other out, and you're left with a human (or whatever racial line the outsider mixed with).

- Some traits dominant. Pick and choose between each option for Aasimar or Tiefling (ability adjustments, skill bonuses, special attacks, special qualities, automatic languages, favoured class).

- One line was less diluted than the other, and you get whichever that was.

- Male/female split. Males are Aasimars, females are Tieflings.

- Let the player pick Aasimar or Tiefling.

[Darth Stabber]

My temptation would be to say that the feindish and celestial elements cancel out, leaving you with a human. Just call it destructive interference. My usual answer to these types of questions (in 3.5) is apply template related to father to the species of the mother. For example if you have a male dragon and a female angel, you get a half dragon angel, reverse it and you get a half celestial dragon. But if both are only templates, then my usual methods don't apply. This situation actually puts a nasty wrinkle in my established (and verbose) system.

[gbprime]

I second (or third, or fourth or whatever) the "looks like a normal human" result. But I'd imagine the kid would have a heck of a talent for planar magics! Be it sorcery or divine in nature (because both parents were), (s)he should be a natural at such magic.

[DarkestKnight]

In various cosmologies, from both Earth and imagination, when a child is born from an infernal and celestial parent they are...human. Granted they are human with demi-godlike power, but human. Now in this case the kid would only be 1/4 celestial, 1/4 infernal, and 1/2 human, so no demi-god level power. You could give him a unique bloodline reflecting all this. At each level he would gain something from his bloodline, the kid has to pick between the demon's boon or the angelic boon.

[The Glyphstone]

Aasimar and Tiefling weren't templates even in 3.5 (can't speak for 3.0, though). They were +1 LA races in their own right.

[Toliudar]

On an only slightly related note: kudos to you and the player of the paladin for making this happen! It sounds like a fun and well-grounded story element.

[NineThePuma]

Wait.

Half Fiend's sibling was... a Tiefling? How work?

[Telonius]

There's a special template in Shackled City called "Smoking Eye Creature." Basically aligned magic will treat you as either good or evil, depending on what is most beneficial to you (among other bonuses). It's a +1 LA template; might be a good starting point.

[Darth Stabber]

I second (or third, or fourth or whatever) the "looks like a normal human" result. But I'd imagine the kid would have a heck of a talent for planar magics! Be it sorcery or divine in nature (because both parents were), (s)he should be a natural at such magic.

Wait, I've got it. From a pure mechanical stand point, treat the child as an Elan. (S)He's got his/her parents gift for magic, but it manifests as psionics, and the functional immortality and elan powers are mere manifestations of his outsider granted resiliance. They're naturals at magic, and they look human, but not quite. They get the elan penalties to social skills amoung humans, but instead of getting it better around elans they get better at socializing with other planetouched races. Just a thought.

[Waker]

Well, I would say if you go with the canceling out effect of the bloodlines, that you make any offspring between the two into a Sorcerer with the Crossblood archetype.

Alternatively you may just create a new race.
Nephilim racial traits:
+2 Strength, +2 Cha, -2 Wis: Though powerful and well-formed, Nephilim are undisciplined and easily distracted.
Medium: Nephilim are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Powerful Build: Despite being Medium creatures, Nephilim are treated as Large-sized creatures for the purposes of wielding weapons and determining Combat Maneuver Bonus or Defense.
Darkvision: Nephilim can see in mundane and magical darkness up to 60ft.
Blood of Ages: A Nephilim begins play with three 0-level spells chosen from the Cleric spell list as spell-like abilities. When a Nephilim gains it's 8th HD, it may choose one 1st-level spell from the Cleric spell list When a Nephilim gains it's 16th HD, it may choose one 1st-level spell and one 2nd-level spell. Each of these SLAs may be used a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier.
Soul of Ages: Nephilim gain a +2 racial bonus on saves from any spell, spell-like ability or supernatural ability from any alignment subschool or from any creature with an alignment subtype.

[prufock]

Wait.

Half Fiend's sibling was... a Tiefling? How work?

Half-sibling, presumably.

[Flickerdart]

Savage Progressions has racial classes for both of 'em. Just mix and match between one base and the other, making either of these:

Weird Mishmash 1
+2 CHA, +2 INT
Darkvision 60
+2 to Spot and Listen checks
light SLA 1/day
darkness SLA 1/day except 5ft radius
(or daylight or darkness 1/day but not both)
Resist 2: acid, fire
Resist 5: cold, electricity

Weird Mishmash 2
+2 DEX, +2 WIS, -2 CHA
Darkvision 60
+2 to Bluff and Hide
light SLA 1/day
darkness SLA 1/day except 5ft radius
(or daylight or darkness 1/day but not both)
Resist 2: acid, fire
Resist 5: cold, electricity

Or make the child a Mongrelfolk and be done with it.

[Fitz10019]

The child is born completely covered in dark thick silky fur. He looks alert and intelligent, but is perfectly silent until his father holds him. At that moment, you find he is already fully verbal (in Common, Celestial, Fiendish and any other language either one of his parents speak) as he immediately engages his father in a debate challenging the perception of good being superior to evil. As the debate continues, he shifts the topic to whether his father will still love him if he chooses evil. He will not be easily convinced of this. He expresses a desperate need for choice.

When/If the paladin can convince the child that as his father he will love him regardless of his choices, the babe says, "thank you, father" and starts to wail like a normal newborn. His tears wash clear lines in his fur. Thereafter, the babe is quite normal, unable to speak, and the fur is quite loose, and does not grow back. [His mother will collect and keep this fur for reasons even she does not know.]

Oh, you want racial traits? Human, I guess. Proud Celestial features with eyes like brimstone.

[agentnone]

Half-sibling, presumably.

Something like that, yes. Two different mothers. Plus their creation from a "behind the screen" standpoint. I made my BBEG before the campaign started and I just made him Half-Elf with the Half-Fiend template applied. A few months into the campaign I needed a way to kind of "drag" the group to the next objective so I tossed in a quick NPC sibling and for faster gameplay sake just made her Tiefling. Essentially they're close enough to the same thing to pass for our campaign so I didn't bother changing either of them. Plus I wanted the sister to be on-par with the party's level without using DM fiat or having to mess with LA so it made more sense to make her Tiefling.

As for all these suggestions, they're really good. I'm not really feeling the whole "get stuff as they level" approach, but I understand what everyone's getting at. I would prefer something that doesn't depend on the player or myself having to apply every few levels tho. But, if nothing else, the ideas given could help me figure something out. I like the Weird Mishmash ideas tho. Keep the ideas coming.


On an only slightly related note: kudos to you and the player of the paladin for making this happen! It sounds like a fun and well-grounded story element.

Why thank you. It was pretty much everyone in the group who wanted to see this happen, so credit should be given to them. I'll pass along your kudos.

On a side note, she's not evil. She's LN with good-aligned tendencies. If that matters or not, I don't know. I always believe alignment is based on how the person was raised, not by a stat block in a monster entry.

Also, there's probably a 98.8% chance the Paladin bites it in the end battle. Self sacrifice and all that.

[Cor1]

I think I'll just leave this here...

http://antiheroescomic.com/comics/issue137.png (http://antiheroescomic.com/comic/137)
http://antiheroescomic.com/comics/issue138.png (http://antiheroescomic.com/comic/138)

[Toliudar]

Wait.

Half Fiend's sibling was... a Tiefling? How work?

If you can have a half-dragon, half-giant hobgoblin, it's clear that 'half' doesn't mean 'half'. Maybe the outsider 'genes' were more dominant in the half-fiend than in the tiefling.

tl/dr: fluff is mutable.

[nessus]

make the angel the paladin descended from and the fiend the tiefling descended from both of the same elemental subtypes (like earth or fire) and make the baby a genasi (forgotten realms campaign setting) of the same type.
he will be a native outsider (which makes sense) abd like that its easy to explain that the only thing both descendants had in common was their respective grandparents (or whatever) had the same elemental tendancies.
hope this helps

[CheshireCatAW]

I think that either you should be left with a human as the energies from both parties fuse together or you should treat it like genes and find out which are recessive and which are dominant. The latter could lead to twins, one which is Aasimar and one which is a Tiefling.

[agentnone]

make the angel the paladin descended from and the fiend the tiefling descended from both of the same elemental subtypes (like earth or fire) and make the baby a genasi (forgotten realms campaign setting) of the same type.
he will be a native outsider (which makes sense) abd like that its easy to explain that the only thing both descendants had in common was their respective grandparents (or whatever) had the same elemental tendancies.
hope this helps

While I like this idea and may use it to a small degree, I gotta let you know something about the Pally. And who knows, it might help. He started the game as an elf. But he died and got a really lucky roll (in front of everyone at the table, myself included) on the Reincarnation table and got Aasimar. Don't know if that throws a kink in your idea, or if it could spawn new ones, but there ya go.

I was thinking to have the "child" be both Aasimar and Tiefling and must pick equal amount of traits from one or the other, kind of like the Weird Mishmash above, but leave it up to the player to choose them. He could pick the attributes of one, but have to pick the next trait from the other, or something like that. If anything I guess I could always homebrew something. I do have time since it won't be for a long while before the next campaign starts, but the players will want to know what the baby is.

But it does bring to question other things. Like if a Dhampir and a Halfling had a child. Or even a Kobold and an Ogre.

Edit:

I think that either you should be left with a human as the energies from both parties fuse together or you should treat it like genes and find out which are recessive and which are dominant. The latter could lead to twins, one which is Aasimar and one which is a Tiefling.

The canceling stuff out to make a normal human is kind of anti-awesome, but I understand what you mean. The twin thing isn't a bad idea. But I would maybe mix their traits around a little to reflect their mixed heritage.

[KillianHawkeye]

Aasimar and Tiefling weren't templates even in 3.5 (can't speak for 3.0, though). They were +1 LA races in their own right.

Exactly the same in 3E.

[Water_Bear]

But it does bring to question other things. Like if a Dhampir and a Halfling had a child. Or even a Kobold and an Ogre.


Yeah, I've always been mystified by how hybridization works in D&D. I know that bringing science into D&D causes Catgirl Genocide but still; it is completely arbitrary which species will hybridize with which, and which can even have children.

I mean, you can be a Half-Troll Human (Giant + Humanoid), a Half-Dragon Human (Magical Beast + Humanoid), an Aasimar (Good Outsider + Humanoid) but not a Half Goblin (Humanoid + Humanoid). The heck?

Anyway, for the kid; don't be boring and just mash the two races together. Use a combination of templates and races like a Sanctified [BoED] Tiefling or an Unholy Scion [Heroes of Horror] Aasimar. You might have to bend the rules a little, but it's cool enough to be worth it.

[agentnone]

Anyway, for the kid; don't be boring and just mash the two races together. Use a combination of templates and races like a Sanctified [BoED] Tiefling or an Unholy Scion [Heroes of Horror] Aasimar. You might have to bend the rules a little, but it's cool enough to be worth it.

We always use the "cool before rule" way of playing, so long as it doesn't severely imbalance the game. The Paladin alone does that tho. Even before he became Aasimar. PF Paladins can be game breakers if made right. Especially in a campaign centered around devils, demons and dragons.

[Darth Stabber]

Yeah, I've always been mystified by how hybridization works in D&D. I know that bringing science into D&D causes Catgirl Genocide but still; it is completely arbitrary which species will hybridize with which, and which can even have children.

I mean, you can be a Half-Troll Human (Giant + Humanoid), a Half-Dragon Human (Magical Beast + Humanoid), an Aasimar (Good Outsider + Humanoid) but not a Half Goblin (Humanoid + Humanoid). The heck?

Anyway, for the kid; don't be boring and just mash the two races together. Use a combination of templates and races like a Sanctified [BoED] Tiefling or an Unholy Scion [Heroes of Horror] Aasimar. You might have to bend the rules a little, but it's cool enough to be worth it.

In 3.5 aasimar are not good outsider+human, though their ancestors were. Good outsider + human = half celestial template on human. An unholy scion aasimar is just undead, and therefore highly unlikely to sire or birth any progeny (though there is the half vampire template, but that's a different story). A sanctified tiefling is still a tiefling, I'm guessing, for the purposes of procreation.

And how is mashing the races together boring?

[NineThePuma]

We always use the "cool before rule" way of playing, so long as it doesn't severely imbalance the game. The Paladin alone does that tho. Even before he became Aasimar. PF Paladins can be game breakers if made right. Especially in a campaign centered around devils, demons and dragons.

... How? :smalleek:

[Water_Bear]

An unholy scion aasimar is just undead, and therefore highly unlikely to sire or birth any progeny

What template were you reading? Unholy Scion is explicitly a Damien-style Fiendish baby. It even changes your type to Outsider (Native).


A sanctified tiefling is still a tiefling, I'm guessing, for the purposes of procreation.

The Sanctified Tiefling is still a tiefling but has the "Good" flavor of being half Aasimar. You could use Half-Celestial instead, but it seems kind of meh and piles on a lot of extra LA. This way you get the Good + Evil flavor without the abilities being too predictable.


And how is mashing the races together boring?

Because it's obvious.

An Aasimar + Tiefling progeny should be a rare, possibly unique, event fraught with tension. Is the child going to turn towards light or darkness? What kind of bizarre powers does it have? What will it look like? This is the perfect chance to get creative, though some Templates around and make something memorable.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The lazy way is human, but I like Darth Stabber's approach of using the elan race to represent the oddity of the child.

If you have access to some of the older Planescape stuff or Races of Faerun, you could grab a hodgepodge of various descriptions from either parent race and then decide the actual race later.

[DarkestKnight]

Being human doesn't explicitly mean it'll be boring. Using bloodlines or templates or even a re-fluffed class (Favored Soul for example, using higher and lower cosmos instead of deities) can give the desired flavor.

Something that I've thought of is what if this kid, should he/she be born, does not think of his parenthood as some cosmic anomaly, but accepts it? What if he has no desire to embrace either of his parents background? I agree it would lay the basis for another campaign should be be special, but what if he isn't? How do others or even his parents react if he isn't some daemon child or angel? Unless he makes the choice later in life to tap into what flows in his blood, he might just seem normal.

[The Glyphstone]

What template were you reading? Unholy Scion is explicitly a Damien-style Fiendish baby. It even changes your type to Outsider (Native).


I think he got it confused with Atropal Scion, which is an undead baby.

[agentnone]

... How? :smalleek:

Because Smite Evil is no longer a single attack. Instead, it lasts until the target is dead, the Paladin falls asleep/falls unconscious or a day goes by, whichever happens first. It's a constant effect that can't be resisted, and a Swift action at that. The campaign revolved around demons/devils (they're essentially the same thing in my campaigns) and dragons. Here's the snipet from the PRD site.


Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.

In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

Yes, its only a few times a day. Add in the fact that the player is an optimizer and has the ability to give Smite Evil to the whole party, it makes any major encounter a joke. PF Paladins are over-powered compared to their 3.5 counterparts. Most classes in PF are more powerful than their 3.5 counterpart. And with this being our first PF campaign, we're realizing this the longer we play. It's not a big issue, but it really throws a monkey wrench in the campaign. lol Makes me have to really look at my encounters before I toss them at the party.


The Sanctified Tiefling is still a tiefling but has the "Good" flavor of being half Aasimar. You could use Half-Celestial instead, but it seems kind of meh and piles on a lot of extra LA. This way you get the Good + Evil flavor without the abilities being too predictable.

These are some great ideas. I'm not worried about whether a template will add to the LA or not since I can just start with a blank slate and use some of the stuff from a template to make a custom one-shot race. I don't like to use LA stuff, even when I was running my 3.5 campaign. Not unless the whole group was using the same LA stuff, then I just waived it and it made the LA a moot point. But PF does LA a little different and with it being new to everyone still, I'm not really wanting to dip into that just yet. But taking bits and pieces from things to make a race should be fine.

And all this bloodline and template stuff isn't a bad idea, but as far as I can tell, it would make that character outshine the rest of the characters. The other races don't really get anything race-related as they gain levels, with exception of the Gnome's innate spell DCs. So in my mind, it tends to make one character more powerful than the rest since they all get stuff at the start, but the Aasimar/Tiefling spawn gets extra stuff at certain levels.

[Wavelab]

Well if we go to Forgotten Realms and recall the story of Asmodeus and the devils we find that they were once angels, so we could almost assume that a angel and devil offspring would actually be an angel.

This can be applied to Pathfinder if devils are fallen angels in it too. Unless the mother was from demon descent. But making the child a angel + fallen angel combo seems like a good choice.

[hamishspence]

I mean, you can be a Half-Troll Human (Giant + Humanoid), a Half-Dragon Human (Magical Beast + Humanoid), an Aasimar (Good Outsider + Humanoid) but not a Half Goblin (Humanoid + Humanoid). The heck?

Just because the rulebooks don't stat them out, doesn't mean they don't exist in D&D- the Realms of Infamy short story collection includes one where the main character is half-goblin half-human.

On hybrids- the Diabloverse has "nephilim" as the descendants of demon/angel hybridisation, and humans as the descendants of the nephilim- with the innate powers having been lost over time.

It would be a good name for an aasimar/tiefling hybrid, or one with more concentrated fiend/celestial heritage- human with half-fiend and half-celestial templates added (and the alignment changes that the templates specify ignored since they're taken simultaneously).

[Darth Stabber]

... How? :smalleek:

Other option if you want to conver 3.5 material
Zenythri: lawful planetouched
Chaond: chaotic planetouched
Axiomatic template: lawful equivilent of celestial or fiendish
Anarchic template: as above but chaotic.
Mechanatrix: mechanus planetouched (and part mechanical)

[rollforeigninit]

If the child is destined to play a PC & they are smart enough to pick a PF Sorc, You could pick Aasimar or Tiefling & take the bloodlines from the other side. I think it'd make for an interesting character if the "dominant" side that the character looks like has to fight the advancing powers of the other parent.

[Rubik]

I'm with the idea of making him elan, but feel free to refluff all the powers he takes (into something very strange) if you want.

Hell, take some bloodline levels and replace some of the benefits with Illithid Heritage feats and he could be the origin of the mind flayers.

[pwykersotz]

An Angel and Demon mating? I'd go with the race of Immortals being reborn in that child. Possessing an inability to die, perhaps by regeneration with no weakness and immunity to death effects, and maybe something nice like a spell-like ability or the ability to channel both positive and negative energy.

[Beowulf DW]

... How? :smalleek:

How do they break the game? Paladins in Pathfinder have a lot of new goodies.

In campaign last year involving lots of evil stuff, our paladin ended up using balors as grenades. I am not exaggerating. He was nigh unstoppable.

[Slipperychicken]

Alternate View: There's a reason heaven and hell don't mix. The wars between them are fought as a safeguard against their breeding, for their mixing was the key to the gates of the plane of insanity: the Far Realm.


Depending on how strongly this isn't supposed to happen, you could give it the Pseudonatural template and it can grow up to be a BBEG, or just a moral decision: Heed the elder's words and euthanize this freakish tentacled monstrosity, or try to raise it as a child, hoping it would adjust to "normal" life, if that word even holds meaning for such a creature.

Total freak of (super)nature. The parents need to hide this brain-meltingly horrifying, abominable product of their forbidden lust in their basement, where it only grows stronger and scarier by the day. One day they thought it would break loose, and both heaven and hell help whoever earned its rage...


As it grew, the grieving parents taught it to suppress its disgusting tentacled form in public, taking the form of an ordinary child. A clearly disturbed child, of course, but what is to be expected of the product of heaven and hell? It grew up, knowing it was never wanted here or anywhere, knowing anyone who saw its true form would have to die. It had no friends, even its parents had trouble loving this monster. Rumors spread about the child, and the parents moved from town to town, plane to plane, never staying in one place long enough for anyone to learn the secret.


EDIT: Also, it can never hug anyone because its hugs drain enough Con to kill most people outright.

[Darth Stabber]

EDIT: Also, it can never hug anyone because its hugs drain enough Con to kill most people outright.

That may be a step to far. No hugs :smalleek:

[Darth Stabber]

EDIT: Also, it can never hug anyone because its hugs drain enough Con to kill most people outright.

That may be a step to far. No hugs :smalleek:

[agentnone]

Alternate View: There's a reason heaven and hell don't mix. The wars between them are fought as a safeguard against their breeding, for their mixing was the key to the gates of the plane of insanity: the Far Realm.


Depending on how strongly this isn't supposed to happen, you could give it the Pseudonatural template and it can grow up to be a BBEG, or just a moral decision: Heed the elder's words and euthanize this freakish tentacled monstrosity, or try to raise it as a child, hoping it would adjust to "normal" life, if that word even holds meaning for such a creature.

Total freak of (super)nature. The parents need to hide this brain-meltingly horrifying, abominable product of their forbidden lust in their basement, where it only grows stronger and scarier by the day. One day they thought it would break loose, and both heaven and hell help whoever earned its rage...


As it grew, the grieving parents taught it to suppress its disgusting tentacled form in public, taking the form of an ordinary child. A clearly disturbed child, of course, but what is to be expected of the product of heaven and hell? It grew up, knowing it was never wanted here or anywhere, knowing anyone who saw its true form would have to die. It had no friends, even its parents had trouble loving this monster. Rumors spread about the child, and the parents moved from town to town, plane to plane, never staying in one place long enough for anyone to learn the secret.


EDIT: Also, it can never hug anyone because its hugs drain enough Con to kill most people outright.

While I REALLY like this idea, it kind of prevents the use of the offspring being a player's character. I like this idea tho and could definitely see myself using it in a future campaign, maybe even the character's sibling or something.

[agentnone]

Alternate View: There's a reason heaven and hell don't mix. The wars between them are fought as a safeguard against their breeding, for their mixing was the key to the gates of the plane of insanity: the Far Realm.


Depending on how strongly this isn't supposed to happen, you could give it the Pseudonatural template and it can grow up to be a BBEG, or just a moral decision: Heed the elder's words and euthanize this freakish tentacled monstrosity, or try to raise it as a child, hoping it would adjust to "normal" life, if that word even holds meaning for such a creature.

Total freak of (super)nature. The parents need to hide this brain-meltingly horrifying, abominable product of their forbidden lust in their basement, where it only grows stronger and scarier by the day. One day they thought it would break loose, and both heaven and hell help whoever earned its rage...


As it grew, the grieving parents taught it to suppress its disgusting tentacled form in public, taking the form of an ordinary child. A clearly disturbed child, of course, but what is to be expected of the product of heaven and hell? It grew up, knowing it was never wanted here or anywhere, knowing anyone who saw its true form would have to die. It had no friends, even its parents had trouble loving this monster. Rumors spread about the child, and the parents moved from town to town, plane to plane, never staying in one place long enough for anyone to learn the secret.


EDIT: Also, it can never hug anyone because its hugs drain enough Con to kill most people outright.

While I REALLY like this idea, it kind of prevents the use of the offspring being a player's character. I like this idea tho and could definitely see myself using it in a future campaign, maybe even the character's sibling or something.

[agentnone]

Alternate View: There's a reason heaven and hell don't mix. The wars between them are fought as a safeguard against their breeding, for their mixing was the key to the gates of the plane of insanity: the Far Realm.


Depending on how strongly this isn't supposed to happen, you could give it the Pseudonatural template and it can grow up to be a BBEG, or just a moral decision: Heed the elder's words and euthanize this freakish tentacled monstrosity, or try to raise it as a child, hoping it would adjust to "normal" life, if that word even holds meaning for such a creature.

Total freak of (super)nature. The parents need to hide this brain-meltingly horrifying, abominable product of their forbidden lust in their basement, where it only grows stronger and scarier by the day. One day they thought it would break loose, and both heaven and hell help whoever earned its rage...


As it grew, the grieving parents taught it to suppress its disgusting tentacled form in public, taking the form of an ordinary child. A clearly disturbed child, of course, but what is to be expected of the product of heaven and hell? It grew up, knowing it was never wanted here or anywhere, knowing anyone who saw its true form would have to die. It had no friends, even its parents had trouble loving this monster. Rumors spread about the child, and the parents moved from town to town, plane to plane, never staying in one place long enough for anyone to learn the secret.


EDIT: Also, it can never hug anyone because its hugs drain enough Con to kill most people outright.

While I REALLY like this idea, it kind of prevents the use of the offspring being a player's character. I like this idea tho and could definitely see myself using it in a future campaign, maybe even the character's sibling or something.

[nedz]

I think that the universe is going to strive for balance; and that the only way this can now be achived is if the child is a cat-girl.

[Zombimode]

An Angel and Demon mating?

Well, this thread is about an Aasimar and a Tiefling. Calling them "Angel" and "Demon" respectively would be as accurate as calling a Seagull a Dinosaur.

I second the notion that having the child be a mostly normal human or whatever would be a wasted opportunity. There are already several neat suggestions in this thread. One that I think wasn't mentioned before is to have the child manifest both fiendish and celestial characteristics but not at the same time. It could be dependent on mood for instance (like while having "negative" feelings like depression, anger, sadness etc. manifesting fiendish traits), but other factors are also possible.

[Rubik]

Well, this thread is about an Aasimar and a Tiefling. Calling them "Angel" and "Demon" respectively would be as accurate as calling a Seagull a Dinosaur.

I second the notion that having the child be a mostly normal human or whatever would be a wasted opportunity. There are already several neat suggestions in this thread. One that I think wasn't mentioned before is to have the child manifest both fiendish and celestial characteristics but not at the same time. It could be dependent on mood for instance (like while having "negative" feelings like depression, anger, sadness etc. manifesting fiendish traits), but other factors are also possible.How does this work with righteous rage?

[Answerer]

Well, this thread is about an Aasimar and a Tiefling. Calling them "Angel" and "Demon" respectively would be as accurate as calling a Seagull a Dinosaur.
Erm, well. Seagulls are dinosaurs.

Relevant (http://xkcd.com/867/), particularly the alt text.

[Edenbeast]

You could also use some simple Mendelian inheritance... Take the Aasimar: he is heterozygous for the gene that decides his erm "racial" phenotype. He has two alleles: one human, the other Aasimar. The same for the Thiefling, but then with a Thiefling allele. When they reproduce they will both pass one of the two alleles. Keep it simple and just throw a coin for the chance is 50/50.

Dominance of one allele over the other can be decided by conviction. For instance, say the "good" side of the Aasimar is stronger than the "evil" side of the Thiefling. If the child ends up with both the Aasimar and Thiefling alleles, it still develops into an Aasimar.

(Although I believe my point is clear, my excuses for any difficult language).

[Morithias]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade but according to the only sourcebook we have that comes anywhere near this subject with a 10 foot pole, the book of erotic fantasy...a fiend and a celestial cannot reproduce together..

However if I was to allow this in my campaign due to rule 0 so to speak I would probably make it a human with the "magic-blooded" or "spark" template from the dragon magazines.

-2 wis +2 cha, favored class sorc, with some spell like abilities la +0

His blood is too diluted to be anything but.

[Water_Bear]

<Cites Book of Erotic Fantasy in a non-comedic context>

I'm always confused when people treat this as an actual WotC sourcebook. It is clearly 3rd party and its rules carry no weight whatsoever. I have seen this multiple times here on the forums. Am I missing something? :smallconfused:

At least Pathfinder and co are fairly well regarded and seen as the successors to 3.5. The BoEF is ...weird... and somewhat ill-conceived; it plays to a very specific kind of Fantasy erotica and has sub-par rules even compared to the worst 3.5 books. If you want sex-roleplay in D&D, its better to DIY.

Not your fault Morty but, ugh.

Back to the Uber-baby, just remember to avoid the classic Mary Sue pitfalls. Obviously the kid needs to be cool, but there is a thin line between "Awesome" and overshadowing the rest of the plot.

[Zombimode]

Erm, well. Seagulls are dinosaurs.

Relevant (http://xkcd.com/867/), particularly the alt text.

Note that I said "as accurate" and not "as wrong". Seagulls are NOT dinosaurs. Seagulls are Birds and Birds are distant relatives of Dinosaurs.
Likewise Tieflings and Aasimars trace fiendish/celestial influence in their ancestry, but this doesn't make them fiends or celestials.

[Dr_S]

So I agree with those who say making it human seems kind of a waste...

However, since both look mostly human with the exception of some minor celestial or fiendish traits (according to pathfinder entry) a creature that is passable as human makes sense, the visual traits are down played but visible to someone looking... obviously player/DM discretion to find the right balance, perhaps give disguise as a class skill since from birth this character has been learning to disguise the non-human features. (or a bonus is probably more fitting)

then a few things that I would consider giving it:
This character is an Outcast. No god or good/evil outsider will freely associate with, lend aid, accept as a follower, or respond to the prayers of this character, if he/she is a divine caster, she's a godless one. Entering a Church/Temple/or other holy place will draw the suspicions of the god who the place is dedicated to, and agents of said god (likely in some disguise as not to alarm the "normals") will be dispatched to shadow this player while there.

Detect Good and Evil both return a hazy yes. Basically this character returns both if it's cast, but the person casting will notice it registers in an unusual way, if the player decides on a good or evil alignment, that side will register stronger, but the other will still register if cast.

When preparing spells any spell that
A) has an opposite spell that counters it, such as Bane/Bless
B) or is good/evil alignment dependent such as protection from good, or detect evil,
The PC can cast that spell as either version... (so if you prepare protect from good, but an evil outsider is all like "I'mma kill you!" then you're like "nuh uh sucka, protection from evil!" but it uses up your protection from good)

Spontaneous casters who learn one, also learn the other.

I'm sure there are other fun stuff, and some of this stuff might be game breaking, (such as the spell stuff) but I was just brainstorming, I feel something like the first thing I mention should be considered. both good and evil god/outsiders are going to consider this an abomination, other tieflings/aasimars who stray from their predicted alignment might be receptive, but won't identify with this new type of creature... Humans and other non-mystical races will probably not be aware enough to decide.

[panaikhan]

Ideas so far I give a thumbs-up to:
Not being trusted by either "side"
Vaguely indescernable alignment
Strangely innate power.

For my two coppers, I would say that this power manifested in an extra trait or two - like the one that lets you cast a cantrip 1/day (even if you aren't a spellcaster), or maybe an extra feat at L1. Nothing game-breaking, just a little boost and some other-worldly fluff to set the kid aside as something out of the ordinary.

[Answerer]

Note that I said "as accurate" and not "as wrong". Seagulls are NOT dinosaurs. Seagulls are Birds and Birds are distant relatives of Dinosaurs.
Aves is a subset of Dinosauria. All birds are dinosaurs; not all dinosaurs are birds, however.

[hamishspence]

The Creatures That Cannot Be discusses creatures that can't exist due to rules mechanics- but aren't that unfeasible fluffwise.

In the first one, there's a half-fiend celestial.
Creatures that Cannot Be (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060407a)

[Rubik]

This:
http://supermantv.net/art/data/media/23/DOOMSDAY_smallville_8_-768.jpg

[Morithias]

I'm always confused when people treat this as an actual WotC sourcebook. It is clearly 3rd party and its rules carry no weight whatsoever. I have seen this multiple times here on the forums. Am I missing something? :smallconfused:

At least Pathfinder and co are fairly well regarded and seen as the successors to 3.5. The BoEF is ...weird... and somewhat ill-conceived; it plays to a very specific kind of Fantasy erotica and has sub-par rules even compared to the worst 3.5 books. If you want sex-roleplay in D&D, its better to DIY.

Not your fault Morty but, ugh.

Back to the Uber-baby, just remember to avoid the classic Mary Sue pitfalls. Obviously the kid needs to be cool, but there is a thin line between "Awesome" and overshadowing the rest of the plot.

It's not that it's WOTC, it's that it's the only book that comes anywhere near the subject in a non-comedic way. To be blunt, it's the closest thing we have.

Also don't call me Morty.

[Darth Stabber]

It's not that it's WOTC, it's that it's the only book that comes anywhere near the subject in a non-comedic way. To be blunt, it's the closest thing we have.

Agreed, there have been times I have used "that book" (the only name by which it should be referred) as a guideline. If you skip the fluffy parts it has quasi useful things like gestation periods, hidden amoung the unneccessary details and various things that really shouldn't be on most gaming tables (if this book is important for your game, I don't want to play). It's still kinda juvenile, but if you go in with an express purpose, grab what you need and get out, it can help.

[Morithias]

Agreed, there have been times I have used "that book" (the only name by which it should be referred) as a guideline. If you skip the fluffy parts it has quasi useful things like gestation periods, hidden amoung the unneccessary details and various things that really shouldn't be on most gaming tables (if this book is important for your game, I don't want to play). It's still kinda juvenile, but if you go in with an express purpose, grab what you need and get out, it can help.

Well our group DOES use the book but mainly for 3 things.

1. The giant born template.
2. Pregnancy and other such rules
3. Appearance scores.

In order to avoid playing super beautiful PC's every time, I roll an appearance score for all of my characters. I also require rolls if someone is going mary-sue with "hottest person alive" mentality.

[Gavinfoxx]

Weren't there like, three or four books (or web-books or whatever) that were direct competitors to the BoEF?

[Vire]

- Male/female split. Males are Aasimars, females are Tieflings.


This. But it's TWINS. One boy and one girl.

[Darth Stabber]

Well our group DOES use the book but mainly for 3 things.

1. The giant born template.
2. Pregnancy and other such rules
3. Appearance scores.

In order to avoid playing super beautiful PC's every time, I roll an appearance score for all of my characters. I also require rolls if someone is going mary-sue with "hottest person alive" mentality.

That's not the content I wish to keep away from.

[Israel]

Well I am Impressed with all the feedback. Very well thought out, and i can't wait to see what it turns out to be. I am the Aasimar Paladin "Varius" Defender of the Light, and I'm also the same pally that "did it" with the tiefling. I have been playing this campaign for a while and it has been fun but in 2 days it will be over and i was gonna make my opinion. These are me 3 ideas.

1st- I like the mish-mash if it would be a PC in the next campaign

2nd- If it turns out to be a more powerful being might make it the next antagonist, or a being like a demigod. (think "the Nine" Agent we know they are powerful and they always seem to come back and help us out)

3rd- Why not 3 kids one tiefling, one aasimar, and the wildcard human and they will probably becomes NPC leaders or something

Also if Varius doesn't die in this last fight he can live for a long period so you never know he might get a chance to become NPC.

But thanks for all the advice your giving to Agent and I hope to see the ending to this campaign very shortly.

[agentnone]

There's a lot of good ideas here. So far, the only one I'm leaning to a lot is the twin thing. But even then that's just a story arc waiting to happen. I have a few ideas in mind with all the input you folks are sharing. I do know I want the child(ren) to be equal with the standard PF races (dwarf, elf, etc). This way, Israel can play as his child if he so chooses. And of course, Israel, your input is welcomed also. Something awesome, but balanced, is the goal. And whatever I end up coming up with I'll post here for others to use, if they feel so inclined. Only fair since they are helping with this mating anomaly.

Edit:
Maybe what I could do is make up a list of some celestial and fiendish mutations and have the player randomly roll on that table a few times. Things like an energy resistance 5 or a spell-like ability once per day. Or even stat bonus. Make it human with some random genetic alterations.