worries over Stromwrack rules for a seafaring campaign

[Kol Korran]

So... soon i'll start a seafaring campaign (most likely pirates, but not necessarily) and i've been reading Stormwrack to decide which rules to use.

neither my players no myself have any knowledge or skills in the nautical fields. and i am worried- we are a casual playing group, that would often gloss over rules for speed of play, but we also like options, and tactical options and a certain complexity both on combat level (which here might include ship combat) and the "making plans/ preparation" part of game.

i fear that the amount of rules in Stormwrack will either bog the game town or just intimidate people (it took me some time to even understand how life abroad ship usually is, what are the different ships and the like).

does any of you have any experience using these rules? what works or what not? or alternate rules?

Some of my major concerns:
- dealing with weather: how much does it help the experience? how much it detracts?

- navigating to the destination: same as weather. the party might sail in a HUGE area, with hundreds of islands if not more. do i need a map for all of this?

- ship to ship combat: the narrative combat is fairly simple (though there seem to be no way for a slower ship to catch a fast ship, no matter how skilled are the crew), but the siege weapons rules not so much... do you have a reasonable chance to sink a ship if you want? most ships seem to carry so little armaments of such kinds

- spells of naval battle: the book keeps a bloody long list of spells and their affects. it's not intuitive (i think). and i don't quite sea a special reason behind it (except for fog spells).

- ships: the ship design in the book seem quite unrealistic to me. the Caraval maybe, but the rest? at 5 ft per square? i have looked a bit and found different measures in different books and documents. a bit at a loss at what to do here.




(search word: piratewitch)

[Righteous Doggy]

I'd say just hire a few crewmen to deal with any of the more professional nautical roles. For adventurers who tend to just swim in gold, hiring lvl 1 commoner lackies for a while is rather easy(or a single pirate captain with leadership). I've done a few pirate campaigns, we always skip over the rules from stormwrack and homebrewed so we always knew what was going on and it was super simple. Wish I had more advice for you but, thats all I've got.

[Myth]

I have no experience. What I will do is show you that 3.5 magic > terrain, fluff, combat rules, armies, mooks and so on.


Some of my major concerns:
- dealing with weather: how much does it help the experience? how much it detracts?

Control Weather. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWeather.htm)


- navigating to the destination: same as weather. the party might sail in a HUGE area, with hundreds of islands if not more. do i need a map for all of this?

Water Walk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/waterWalk.htm), Overland Flight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/overlandFlight.htm), Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm)

Use the plethora of Divination spells to forego maps.


- ship to ship combat: the narrative combat is fairly simple (though there seem to be no way for a slower ship to catch a fast ship, no matter how skilled are the crew), but the siege weapons rules not so much... do you have a reasonable chance to sink a ship if you want? most ships seem to carry so little armaments of such kinds

Shatter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shatter.htm) on the mast is easy, fun and profitable. Reverse Gravity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reverseGravity.htm) on a ship is nice. Shrink Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm) is hillarious if by RAW 1 ship = 1 item. Even if not, you can use Ocular Spell to Chain it. If all else fails, use Combust from Sc to light it on fire, or Major Creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorCreation.htm) to form cannonballs above it.


- spells of naval battle: the book keeps a bloody long list of spells and their affects. it's not intuitive (i think). and i don't quite sea a special reason behind it (except for fog spells).

Spells are nice, as is my point. No need to go fancy, but why not?


- ships: the ship design in the book seem quite unrealistic to me. the Caraval maybe, but the rest? at 5 ft per square? i have looked a bit and found different measures in different books and documents. a bit at a loss at what to do here.

DnD authors are not known to hold to historical accuracy. Also, it's Caravel.

[Grod_The_Giant]

- navigating to the destination: same as weather. the party might sail in a HUGE area, with hundreds of islands if not more. do i need a map for all of this?
I'd recommend it, just in the interests of being prepared, but you can probably do without one. For a bit of fun, make your players keep a map-- the area is uncharted, or something-- that you can refer back to for consistency.


- ship to ship combat: the narrative combat is fairly simple (though there seem to be no way for a slower ship to catch a fast ship, no matter how skilled are the crew), but the siege weapons rules not so much... do you have a reasonable chance to sink a ship if you want? most ships seem to carry so little armaments of such kinds
I ran one or two narrative combat encounters (albeit with airships instead of normal ships). They were fun for the magic uses with big, flashy spells (especially the warmage), but not so much for everyone else, what with siege weapons taking so long to reload. I recommend trying to bring things to a boarding action as fast as possible-- it gets the melee types into the fight a lot faster, and brings things back to what D&D is made for.


- spells of naval battle: the book keeps a bloody long list of spells and their affects. it's not intuitive (i think). and i don't quite sea a special reason behind it (except for fog spells).
Just wing it. Have your players tell you how they think the spell should work, and determine if it'll work, require a Spellcraft roll to alter, or just not work.


- ships: the ship design in the book seem quite unrealistic to me. the Caraval maybe, but the rest? at 5 ft per square? i have looked a bit and found different measures in different books and documents. a bit at a loss at what to do here.
Look up dimensions and blueprints for real ships.

[Palanan]

I'm running a seafaring campaign right now, and Stormwrack has been a huge disappointment. I don't even look at it anymore.

Instead, I've checked out a lot of books on nautical history from my local library, and I'm also reading through the Master and Commander (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=aubrey%2Fmaturin) novels by Patrick O'Brian, which are outstanding in all respects.

In my campaign I'm trying to focus on the historical aspects, so I'll try to answer your questions with that in mind:

1. For me, weather is crucial, because it determines everything about the conditions and the ship's performance. But you're the DM, so you control the weather.

2. If you're working with hundreds of islands, then I would definitely recommend a map. If you have a clear idea of the kind of ocean involved, you could copy a broad-scale overview from a map of a real archipelago. Once you have the main map, you can work up more detailed sketches of the major islands, and flesh out the history and politics as you go.

Also, I would strongly recommend working out the sailing speed and distance traveled each day for the party's ship, so you can have an accurate idea of where they're ranging across your archipelago.

3. As for relative speeds, yes, in a straight chase a slower ship usually has no chance of catching a faster ship. That said, each ship has her own sailing qualities, and a skilled captain and crew can sometimes coax a little more speed from her--but there will be consequences if they're doing something risky. (Putting out too much sail in a heavy wind can risk carrying the entire mast away.) Also, keep in mind that sailing ships will often carry oars as well; this can give you an extra surge of speed for a while, although it'll eventually tire out your crew.

4. If you're not using gunpowder and cannon, then there are generally just two main ways to sink a ship: burning it, or ramming it. A great deal depends on what kinds of ships are involved. A caravel won't be a good ramming vessel, and you'll damage your own ship as much as the enemy's. A trireme with a bronze ram at the bow is built for the maneuver...and so forth.

5. And yes, the sample ships in Stormwrack aren't worth a second glance. Finding good deckplans has been the single most challenging part of my game prep so far. I spent a lot of time looking online for quality plans, with zero success, so now I'm making my own from construction drafts in some of the books I've found. It's time-consuming, but they're historically accurate and they look much better than anything WotC has done. I can give you more details if you'd like.

Also, tell us a little more about your campaign. Do the players have a mission, or are they roving the high seas looking for trouble? And are you using ships from a particular region and historical era, or mixing ship types from everywhere?
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[Kol Korran]

I'd say just hire a few crewmen to deal with any of the more professional nautical roles. For adventurers who tend to just swim in gold, hiring lvl 1 commoner lackies for a while is rather easy(or a single pirate captain with leadership). I've done a few pirate campaigns, we always skip over the rules from stormwrack and homebrewed so we always knew what was going on and it was super simple. Wish I had more advice for you but, thats all I've got.

If the party wishes to leave it for crew members, then fine, but i get a feeling that some might like to deal with captaining, navigating and so on themselves. from what i hear (i may be wrong) the party WANTS to "feel a sailor's life", but i'm worried how much to do it. if i'm going to wing it, i want to know how much, and have SOME idea on the basics. finding the balance might be hard...


I have no experience. What I will do is show you that 3.5 magic > terrain, fluff, combat rules, armies, mooks and so on.


... i think that having played D&D for quite a few years i'd know that magic can be useful, powerful, and all that jazz. that said, there are a few factors to consider:
1) the party starts at low levels. around level 2-3. they don't have access to all that power so early on, and it will take them a time to get to it.

2)why spend control weather when you can navigate nicely without it? wouldn't you want the spell slot against some nasty monster? or an enemy caster? or those nasty empire people with their magicians? same go to most kind of spells. i don't let my party have fun nilly willy- spells are important resources, and they better choose them wisely. if something else can solve the problem, all the better.


I'd recommend it, just in the interests of being prepared, but you can probably do without one. For a bit of fun, make your players keep a map-- the area is uncharted, or something-- that you can refer back to for consistency.

damn, i'm crap at maps. usually dealt without them. the area open for them stretches for many hundreds of mile.

Here is the OVERALL map i'm using (http://www.thirteen10.com/the6elements/setting/atlas/Starfall.pdf)


I ran one or two narrative combat encounters (albeit with airships instead of normal ships). They were fun for the magic uses with big, flashy spells (especially the warmage), but not so much for everyone else, what with siege weapons taking so long to reload. I recommend trying to bring things to a boarding action as fast as possible-- it gets the melee types into the fight a lot faster, and brings things back to what D&D is made for.

hmmmm... that is the sort of feedback i was looking for. so try to cut to boarding? that is the suggestion in the book as well.


Just wing it. Have your players tell you how they think the spell should work, and determine if it'll work, require a Spellcraft roll to alter, or just not work.

i like this advice :smallsmile:


Look up dimensions and blueprints for real ships.

tried to do that online for the past hour or so. i can't find anything i can easily enough convert or use. i don't have a lot of free time for this... :smallfrown:


I'm running a seafaring campaign right now, and Stormwrack has been a huge disappointment. I don't even look at it anymore.

1. For me, weather is crucial, because it determines everything about the conditions and the ship's performance. But you're the DM, so you control the weather.
i want the weather to matter, but i want it to be at least partially predictable. so the players can use their knowledge and not feel it is entirely random. my thought is to use the weather charts in the book to create weather about 2 weeks- 1 month ahead of time, and let the player plan accordingly if they can gauge the weather.


2. If you're working with hundreds of islands, then I would definitely recommend a map. If you have a clear idea of the kind of ocean involved, you could copy a broad-scale overview from a map of a real archipelago. Once you have the main map, you can work up more detailed sketches of the major islands, and flesh out the history and politics as you go.

i'm allready using This map (http://www.thirteen10.com/the6elements/setting/atlas/Starfall.pdf), but it's too large scale i think. each little dot can present dozens of small isles. i am fairly crappy at maps, but i thought that once the players settle more or less into a territory (or two, or three) i might map them better? still- not my strong suit. :smallfrown: in previous campaigns i avoided this with ease, but this campaign has a LOT more freedom.


Also, I would strongly recommend working out the sailing speed and distance traveled each day for the party's ship, so you can have an accurate idea of where they're ranging across your archipelago.
that i intend to do. mostly by giving a rough calculation to their destination, and evaluating progress daily?



4. If you're not using gunpowder and cannon, then there are generally just two main ways to sink a ship: burning it, or ramming it. A great deal depends on what kinds of ships are involved. A caravel won't be a good ramming vessel, and you'll damage your own ship as much as the enemy's. A trireme with a bronze ram at the bow is built for the maneuver...and so forth.
the Stormwrack did seem to make it hard to bring down a ship other than ramming it. (catapults? on ships? really? :smalleek:) cannons are fairly new to the campaign, as is gunpowder. i'm worried that at some point there might be a bigger conflict in which the party won't want to just raid ships, butblow them off waters.


5. And yes, the sample ships in Stormwrack aren't worth a second glance. Finding good deckplans has been the single most challenging part of my game prep so far. I spent a lot of time looking online for quality plans, with zero success, so now I'm making my own from construction drafts in some of the books I've found. It's time-consuming, but they're historically accurate and they look much better than anything WotC has done. I can give you more details if you'd like.
I'd sell my right hand for any reasonable designs (well, not my hand, but would you settle for a toe? :smalltongue:) i don't have a lot of time to dedicate to conversion, but i might if you have a good source. i've searched a bit through the internet, but didn't found anything useful.


Also, tell us a little more about your campaign. Do the players have a mission, or are they roving the high seas looking for trouble? And are you using ships from a particular region and historical era, or mixing ship types from everywhere?


i'm afraind i'm going to disappoint you. i'm not going for any historical accuracy. i may have used historical "touches" but i'm afraid they may be quite serious gaps or subversions of the truth there.

It's supposed to be a fairly sandbox game, with a (hopefully) solid end intersting enough setting to provoke enough interest and hooks for adventure. the first adventure is supposed to introduce them to the different cultures a bit, bring them together, and give them a chance to get a boat (they will have a choice between different vessels with different difficulty levels to get each). it's also supposed to throw in some hooks and intrigue, after which the party might decide on a course.

though sandbox, there is an agreement with the party that for me to provide them quality game time, they need to alert me sufficiently enough of their intentions and plans, so i can plan accordingly. this might give me time to map things and so on.

if you're REALLY interested (not a must) i've been building This gaming wiki (http://witchlingisles.pbworks.com/w/page/50238619/FrontPage) on the PBworks pages. it's still not complete, so there might be some holes, and obviously the party hasn't yet pitched in, but it can give the general idea.

ships? so far i'm relying on the general descriptions of the ships in Stormwrack, but they seem a bit inadequate to me, but perhaps simple enough for our use? i don't care that much for historical accuracy, but i do care for fun options for gaming, and the minimal?/general? feel of seamanship.

hope this answers your question.

[Ashtagon]

So... soon i'll start a seafaring campaign (most likely pirates, but not necessarily) and i've been reading Stormwrack to decide which rules to use.

neither my players no myself have any knowledge or skills in the nautical fields. and i am worried- we are a casual playing group, that would often gloss over rules for speed of play, but we also like options, and tactical options and a certain complexity both on combat level (which here might include ship combat) and the "making plans/ preparation" part of game.

i fear that the amount of rules in Stormwrack will either bog the game town or just intimidate people (it took me some time to even understand how life abroad ship usually is, what are the different ships and the like).

does any of you have any experience using these rules? what works or what not? or alternate rules?

Some of my major concerns:
- dealing with weather: how much does it help the experience? how much it detracts?

Outside of combat, weather is essentially a kind of "trap", except you can't disarm it (short of control weather spells). It either damages your ship or you sail past.

In combat, it enhances the environment, creating a kind of scenery. Because let's face it, naval battles don't have much scenery.

- navigating to the destination: same as weather. the party might sail in a HUGE area, with hundreds of islands if not more. do i need a map for all of this?

Most of the water is irrelevant. What it boils down to is base travel time, and any "have we gotten lost" rolls either slow the party travel time down, or take them to an alternate interesting location. The actual interesting locations can just be an amorphous cluster in the GM's head.

- ship to ship combat: the narrative combat is fairly simple (though there seem to be no way for a slower ship to catch a fast ship, no matter how skilled are the crew), but the siege weapons rules not so much... do you have a reasonable chance to sink a ship if you want? most ships seem to carry so little armaments of such kinds

The narrative combat rules were written with the intent of forcing PCs to enter into a boarding action. Because having your ship sink is a variation on "rocks fall everyone dies". And having the other ship sink is basically saying "lol no treasure for you".

- spells of naval battle: the book keeps a bloody long list of spells and their affects. it's not intuitive (i think). and i don't quite sea a special reason behind it (except for fog spells).

That was space filler, and mostly just restates what you'd expect the spell to do anyway.

- ships: the ship design in the book seem quite unrealistic to me. the Caraval maybe, but the rest? at 5 ft per square? i have looked a bit and found different measures in different books and documents. a bit at a loss at what to do here.

I'll just leave this here.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch


(search word: pirate witch)

[Kol Korran]

- dealing with weather: how much does it help the experience? how much it detracts?

Outside of combat, weather is essentially a kind of "trap", except you can't disarm it (short of control weather spells). It either damages your ship or you sail past.

In combat, it enhances the environment, creating a kind of scenery. Because let's face it, naval battles don't have much scenery.

in fact, i haven't found the rules of how weather affect combat other than makes ranged combat more difficult, and perhaps blowing creatures or making them prone. i guess the manueverability might mean something for tactical combat, but that only when close to islands, beaches and the like. not much excitement in open waters.

another question: what you say about wind as a trap outside o combat seems true- mostly a bunch of skill checks or deteremment. any idea of how to make it more exciting? or should i forget about it alltogether except for extreme cases? (special storms and such)



- navigating to the destination: same as weather. the party might sail in a HUGE area, with hundreds of islands if not more. do i need a map for all of this?

Most of the water is irrelevant. What it boils down to is base travel time, and any "have we gotten lost" rolls either slow the party travel time down, or take them to an alternate interesting location. The actual interesting locations can just be an amorphous cluster in the GM's head.

hhhmmmm.. .i like the idea of making all kinds of "so we got lost- now what?" encounters. this being mostly a sandbox campaign might do very nicely. thanks! i liked this idea!


- ships: the ship design in the book seem quite unrealistic to me. the Caraval maybe, but the rest? at 5 ft per square? i have looked a bit and found different measures in different books and documents. a bit at a loss at what to do here.

I'll just leave this here.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch
yeah, i know. but do you happen to know of a better source for ship designs?

(search word: piratewitch)

[Ashtagon]

Weather in Combat: You've basically got that all correct.

Weather out of combat: Possible effects include damage to ship, man overboard (good ploy if you need to elevate an NPC), or lose direction (delay ship). Exact effects should depend on storyline needs.

Interesting Places: I'd give the PCs a map of "known" locations that have in theory been already explored. Part of the problem with making it a "wander off over there" campaign is that, without having latitude and longitude for these places, it's next to impossible to find islands.

Believable island geography tends to have islands form in chains, which should give an intelligent map-maker a strong hint as to where to find the next island.

You can prepare a list of interesting islands, and then use them at random each time they visit an island, making sure to note what was on each one, so that if they visit it again they will know what to expect there.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon
Part of the problem with making it a "wander off over there" campaign is that, without having latitude and longitude for these places, it's next to impossible to find islands.

Not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that without lat/long, the characters can't find the islands at all?

Anyone with a solid knowledge of the currents and weather for a region can apply some basic dead-reckoning and work out the locations. This is basic seamanship, which in game terms would be a Profession (sailor) check. Simply knowing which birds are seen close to land will give the experienced eye a good sense of how far away an island might be. The same with reef fish, patches of floating vegetation, etc.

Also, if particular islands have already been found, there should be logs and records from previous explorers to work with--unless they're being kept secret for commercial advantage, which opens up plot opportunities galore. Maybe the PCs are trying to follow a rare, expensive spice back to the one island where it grows, and they have to steal a pilot's log from the company with a monopoly?


Originally Posted by Kol Korran
...do you happen to know of a better source for ship designs?

I could recommend a number of books to you, but they're all in English, and I don't know if you'd have access to them.

I know you mentioned you don't have a lot of time for this, but do you have any sort of local library near you? Even a short trip could probably get you something useful.

[Ranting Fool]

While I'm not doing a seafaring campaign I am planing to have a bit of sea battles at some point (or not, depends on which way the players go) so this is all useful for me too :smallbiggrin:

Was tempted to do a 1000 Islands style set up but my total lack of exp with water based fighting and rules put me off.

Magic gives a whole host of ways to board another ship from, quick flying boarders to any of the short teleport (level 4 can do 400ft + 40/level) so elite boarding party can jump right on your ship do distract/slow/take over.

What I need to go look at is counterspell rules and distance since there are few spells that could work vs ships compared to vs people. So knowing that you can counter more/it would be more useful.


Readying to Counterspell: You may ready a counterspell
against a spellcaster (often with the trigger “if she starts casting a
spell”). In this case, when the spellcaster starts a spell, you get a
chance to identify it with a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If
you do, and if you can cast that same spell (are able to cast it and
have it prepared, if you prepare spells), you can cast the spell as a
counterspell and automatically ruin the other spellcaster’s spell.
Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other
arcane.
A spellcaster can use dispel magic (page 223) to counterspell
another spellcaster, but it doesn’t always work.

If you are 400ft + away how'd you be able to see which spell the mage is casting? (Which is the range of a fireball)

[Ashtagon]

Not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean that without lat/long, the characters can't find the islands at all?

Pretty much this. Assuming each island is about 8 miles across (this matches the largest atoll islands on Earth), the typical maximum view from a crow's nest is 12 miles (ref (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/15/how-far-away-is-the-horizon/)). That gives a total span of 32 miles that can be regarded as a "hit". If you're travelling more than ten times that distance you want to be really darn sure you can keep pointing in the same direction consistently. There's a reason this was called dead reckoning -- get it wrong and you would be dead when your supplies run out.

The other way is to be really darn sure you can tell exactly where you are relative to your destination. This wasn't historically done until about the 16th century or so, and it requires advanced knowledge of astronomy and accurate clocks. Without a clock, you cannot measure longitude.

Yes, I am aware the Polynesians managed to do incredible navigation feats. There's still some dispute in the circles that make themselves expert in this over how they did it.


Anyone with a solid knowledge of the currents and weather for a region can apply some basic dead-reckoning and work out the locations. This is basic seamanship, which in game terms would be a Profession (sailor) check. Simply knowing which birds are seen close to land will give the experienced eye a good sense of how far away an island might be. The same with reef fish, patches of floating vegetation, etc.

Dead reckoning is tolerable if you can count on knowing exactly how fast you are moving, and know exactly how long you've been travelling, and know the rough location of your destination. A single storm can easily result in you missing your destination.

For example, let's say you are sailing 200 miles due east towards an 8-mile island. Half-way through (100 miles), you hit a storm, which pushes you south 10 miles and turns you from your course by four degrees due south. Two degrees is not enough to really tell the difference on any compass that would have seen use in the age of sail. You will miss your destination completely, and never even catch sight of it (you'll wind up 17 miles due south of your target).

And in sailing terms, 100 miles is nothing.

Yes, you can handwave all this with a skill check. But dead reckoning really is a lot harder than most people realise.


Also, if particular islands have already been found, there should be logs and records from previous explorers to work with--unless they're being kept secret for commercial advantage, which opens up plot opportunities galore. Maybe the PCs are trying to follow a rare, expensive spice back to the one island where it grows, and they have to steal a pilot's log from the company with a monopoly?

If previous islands have been found, there will be (hopefully) maps, and records of latitude and longitude. That's enough to establish where you are going to and sail to the destination.

[Toy Killer]

Well, I may also recommend that you keep a few tricks up your sleeve refering to nautical life, just to keep the party moving:

*Scurvies, is not just a pirate proclamation. It's a disease, that literally causes your gums to dry out and teeth to fall out. an out break of it is bad bad bad for the crew, it's excruciatingly painful and eventually, deadly. The British found that if you eat limes, it prevents it almost entirely. So they kept a fair amount on board to ration out. after a while, their navy used so many that it caused the prices of Limes to go way up, and they decided to switch to lemons, forgetting why they used limes in the first place. when Scurvy out breaks happened again, the old salts reminded their masters that Limes prevent scurvy, and since then the British sailors were known as 'Limeys'.

TL;DR: the crew got a shipment of Lemons on board for a good cheap price, when they set sail, the crew gets a scurvy out break. Now they have to head somewhere fast to battle this painful disease.

*Storms were no joke at high seas. first, balance and reflex saves should be the norm during a storm. ever see how a lot of things are hanging in the lower decks of a ship in movies? that's because they didn't want to leave it on the ground, if the ship 'lists' (Pivoting on a central axis, tilting back and forth) things on the ground slid from side to side, unless they were secured (IE tied down to the walls of the ship). however, if the lines rotted while they were underway, they could snap if they were suddenly caught in a storm. tying them to the ceiling made sure that if anything were to break, it would be obvious and thus, not impeding movement or sliding around on the floor of the ship.

A US Carrier still can get up to 10 degrees of list out on the open ocean, a standard sailing ship was easily 1/100th of the size of a carrier. The kind of waves that come up in a storm could easily capsize a ship in a blink of an eye.

TL;DR: Storms should be big Uh-oh Moments

*There are lots of people 'in charge' of a ship. Three are almost universal; A ship's Master, A ship's Captain, and a Ship's Bos'n (Pronounced Bow-Sin). These three are all 'in charge' but in different ways. The Ship's Master owned the ship itself, it is his property. He paid for it's commissioning (For it to be built) and the crew to be on board.

A ship's Captain is the one in charge of what the ship is doing (hence why their are legendary captains, but not Bos'ns). On a military ship, he acts on behalf of his government to make decisions on where or why the ship is going to, and reports to his respective military members. Captains are almost always officers for government vessels (Some particularly small ships, the Bos'n and captain may be one in the same, but this is Very Very rare. but might occur in the event of a Mutiny)

A ship's Bos'n is in charge of the crew and maintaining the ship itself. He hires the deckhands (Or pays the boys to form a press gang, see below), trains them and typically rewards them when they do well, and punishes them when they do poorly.

These three are in charge and have to work together. the officers all work for the captain, the hired hands work for the Bos'n and the Master pays for it all.

* Sailor superstitions are wide and outspread. it's typical for a sailor to have a pig and a rooster tattooed on his feet (These animals were kept in crates because pigs would eat anything they could and roosters would kill each other) so that they would arrive on shore with the other animals that floated away safely after a ship capsized. Nautical tattoo websites are all over that show what exactly each tattoo represents, and a fair bit of etymology refers back to the navy because of the unique culture that comes from having 20 men live amongst each other for years on end.

* Press gangs use to be a common way to recruit new help on board, and consisted of taking three or four men and having them beat up and kidnap a few people, drag them on board and keep them their until they pulled out to sea. Ships with this kind of practice are an excellent replacement for slavers in traditional fantasy.

[Kol Korran]

Part of the problem with making it a "wander off over there" campaign is that, without having latitude and longitude for these places, it's next to impossible to find islands.


yeah... i read the discussion... on most accounts the party will need to have some maps (or long and lat) in order to find the place, but i'm going to be more lenient and allow some leeway in shorter voyages and the like, as the game fun calls for it. we're not that into nautical accuracy. i want to bring sea faring elements, but as long as they are fun and contribute to the game.

the voyages are but part of the adventure in my campaign, not THE adventure (in most cases, there may be exceptions) there are some major routes where most islands and land masses have been mapped out. i think i might concentrate on them.



Also, if particular islands have already been found, there should be logs and records from previous explorers to work with--unless they're being kept secret for commercial advantage, which opens up plot opportunities galore. Maybe the PCs are trying to follow a rare, expensive spice back to the one island where it grows, and they have to steal a pilot's log from the company with a monopoly?


oh, some islands and locations are allready marked in my files as known to only certain powers in the campaign. getting logs and maps wil lcertainly feature in some adventures.




*Scurvies
Scurives i probably won't do, too much real world information, i don't want them to micromanage everything they need for the ship. we don't like that part at all. besides, in a fantasy world Scurvy might be handled swiftly with a sufficiently high heal check or cure disease (at least in the D&D system)


*Storms

i definetly want to put storms in, i'm just wondering how exactly. in most rules i sought a storm either drowns a ship, takes it wildly off course (possibly with damage), or the ship manages through. As was mentioned, this makes Storms mostly like a trap that reuires several skill checks, with little other involvement form the players (i can take a man over board and such, but how many times?) and most times it would completley mess up the game.

i'm trying to find a way to make it fun, interactive with the player's possibly. one- two storms in the course of the campaign might be fun, but more? :smallconfused:


*There are lots of people 'in charge' of a ship.
actually there is also the quartermaster. different eras make somewhat different definitons of roles and the like. Master's rarely go on dangerous voyages, and with pirates the Master is nearly always the captain as well. i've read something about this and going to implement it in the campaign, which will hopefully give it more flavor. if i'm guessing right about 3 of my players will want to be captain.



* Sailor superstitions are wide and outspread.
(+ tattoes) i will look into that. might be cool.


* Press gangs use to be a common way to recruit new help on board, and consisted of taking three or four men and having them beat up and kidnap a few people, drag them on board and keep them their until they pulled out to sea. Ships with this kind of practice are an excellent replacement for slavers in traditional fantasy.

as this is most likely to be a pirate crew i wonder if this sort of requirement was how it was handled (pirating society was from what i heard a mostly democratic society) also, any form of slavery is highly frowned on in my campaign, due to historical reason. (nearly everybody were slaves to some power in the past). but it's an interesting idea. might be used by some new teams, by less scrupulous sea men.

thank you all for answering!

[NNescio]

Well, I may also recommend that you keep a few tricks up your sleeve refering to nautical life, just to keep the party moving:

*Scurvies, is not just a pirate proclamation. It's a disease, that literally causes your gums to dry out and teeth to fall out. an out break of it is bad bad bad for the crew, it's excruciatingly painful and eventually, deadly. The British found that if you eat limes, it prevents it almost entirely. So they kept a fair amount on board to ration out. after a while, their navy used so many that it caused the prices of Limes to go way up, and they decided to switch to lemons, forgetting why they used limes in the first place. when Scurvy out breaks happened again, the old salts reminded their masters that Limes prevent scurvy, and since then the British sailors were known as 'Limeys'.

TL;DR: the crew got a shipment of Lemons on board for a good cheap price, when they set sail, the crew gets a scurvy out break. Now they have to head somewhere fast to battle this painful disease. ...

...

......

............

Scurvy is caused by a lack of Vitamin C.

Citrus fruits are good sources of Vitamin C.

Limes and lemons are citrus fruits.

Lime: 30 mg Vitamin C/100 g
Lemon: 40 mg Vitamin C/100 g *

ಠ_ಠ

*Source: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C#Plant_sources), quoted values are averages calculated from multiple authoritative sources. The exact Vitamin C values varies between different studies, but lemons consistently have more Vitamin C than limes.

[Dsurion]

Well, I've been browsing this d20 Pirates blog (http://d20pirates.blogspot.com/2011/02/sloop-deck-plan.html). Maybe you can find something useful?

[ericgrau]

SRD rules in case they might be simpler:

Siege weapons: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#siegeEngines
Boat resilience to siege weapons: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering
Weather: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/weather.htm
Water: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#aquaticTerrain


For boat resilience you'll need to look up the thickness of hulls and find out the hp of that much wood (per 10'x10' section). I found 25 inches for "old ironsides", as a high value. Without cannonballs I don't think the hull will break often, but masts and so on might via PC & monster actions.