[3.5] Long-term Blindness

[rmg22893]

So in the condition description for blindness is the following text:


"Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them."

I cannot seem to find what exactly they can overcome anywhere. I'd logically assume it would be everything except the 50% miss chance, the auto-fail on Spot and the -4 to Search? Is there any clarification on this anywhere?

[nedz]

I thinks its fluff text.

But you could give them a +2 circumstance bonus to listen.
If you're feeling generous bump that to +4 later.
If you're feeling really generous bump that to Blindsense.
Blindsight would mitigate the blindness almost completely, in fact within the range they would see things better than normal.

[Larkas]

If I remember correctly, there is nothing concrete on that. There was a feat somewhere that gives the character Blindsense, 5ft., though. I would give characters that have been blinded for a long time that as a bonus feat :smallsmile:

[nedz]

Whatever you do you should bear in mind that they are only one third level clerical spell away from having normal sight again.

[rmg22893]

Whatever you do you should bear in mind that they are only one third level clerical spell away from having normal sight again.

Yeah, this is actually for a PC I'm playing in a Gestalt game. I felt like playing a blind Necropolitan Whisper Gnome Shadow Sun Ninja who's pretending to be alive, just for kicks. The DM is letting me take uncurable blindness as a flaw and compensating with a feat or two. I was just trying to figure out what all I needed to subtract from my character.

[Last Laugh]

I felt like playing a blind Necropolitan Whisper Gnome Shadow Sun Ninja who's pretending to be alive, just for kicks. Life sense would be an amusing addition to this (perhaps I have the feat name wrong, It's from libris mortis and allows you to "see" living entities. Perhaps it doesn't work w/ blindness?

Oh, and your build description made me laugh!

[rmg22893]

Life sense would be an amusing addition to this (perhaps I have the feat name wrong, It's from libris mortis and allows you to "see" living entities. Perhaps it doesn't work w/ blindness?

Oh, and your build description made me laugh!

In the feat description, it says it acts like normal light, so without a pair of functional eyes to receive the light, I don't think the feat would do anything.

Yeah, it's pretty hilarious. I have fourteen feats at level 8. I do 2d6+10 damage per unarmed strike with an absurdly high to-hit bonus, but with a 50% chance to miss.

[Larkas]

Ah, here is the feat I told you about (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#blindsight5FtRadius). I didn't realize it was part of the SRD. I'll transcribe it here for your convenience:

Blindsight, 5-Ft. Radius [General]

Prerequisites
Base attack bonus +4, Blind-Fight, Wisdom 19.

Benefit
Using senses such as acute hearing and sensitivity to vibrations, you can detect the location of opponents who are no more than 5 feet away from you. Invisibility and darkness are irrelevant, though you cannot discern incorporeal beings. (Except for the decreased range, this feat is identical to the blindsight special ability.)

There is also a Blindsense feat in Complete Adventurer, pg. 114, but it requires Wild Shape and is pretty useless. Maybe you can homebrew something from it, though.

[rmg22893]

Ah, here is the feat I told you about (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#blindsight5FtRadius). I didn't realize it was part of the SRD. I'll transcribe it here for your convenience:

Blindsight, 5-Ft. Radius [General]

Prerequisites
Base attack bonus +4, Blind-Fight, Wisdom 19.

Benefit
Using senses such as acute hearing and sensitivity to vibrations, you can detect the location of opponents who are no more than 5 feet away from you. Invisibility and darkness are irrelevant, though you cannot discern incorporeal beings. (Except for the decreased range, this feat is identical to the blindsight special ability.)

There is also a Blindsense feat in Complete Adventurer, pg. 114, but it requires Wild Shape and is pretty useless. Maybe you can homebrew something from it, though.

Oh, yeah, I had seen that feat. Only issue was that I didn't have the wisdom pre-req. But if I add in venerable bonuses from being around for so long, then I'd have enough WIS ^.^ Thanks!

[Larkas]

Oh, yeah, I had seen that feat. Only issue was that I didn't have the wisdom pre-req. But if I add in venerable bonuses from being around for so long, then I'd have enough WIS ^.^ Thanks!

Hey, no problem! :smallwink: I actually made a little research on this some time ago to see the feasibility of a blind monk (yeah, talk about unoptimized :smalltongue: ) for a campaign I was to play. Unfortunately, the campaign never took off, and his character sheet must be somewhere gathering dust :smallfrown:

[rmg22893]

Hey, no problem! :smallwink: I actually made a little research on this some time ago to see the feasibility of a blind monk (yeah, talk about unoptimized :smalltongue: ) for a campaign I was to play. Unfortunately, the campaign never took off, and his character sheet must be somewhere gathering dust :smallfrown:

Yeah, once the lights go out, everyone's going to die. It shall be glorious!

[Psyren]

You could do something like giving them Blind-Fight for free after awhile (or as a bonus feat if they start the game being blind from their backstory.)

Psions have the best ways around being blind though, e.g. Synesthete (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/synesthete.htm) and Touchsight. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm)

[Callista]

Long-term blindness should count as a Flaw. That gives you an extra feat, which you can spend on Blind-Fight or similar.

I like the concept of playing a disabled character. A blind character has a disadvantage in the world of adventurers but there's no reason why they shouldn't find their way around in it by touch.

BTW, if you want to keep your blind character blind, have them be blind from birth. When that happens, the brain simply doesn't develop in a way that lets you interpret things coming from your eyes, even if you were to have your eyesight restored. The parts of the brain that you'd be using for vision get used for touch or hearing instead; so a spell that restored your eyes wouldn't work (though a Wish/Miracle obviously would).

It's also not a given that someone who could get rid of a disability if they wanted, would automatically choose to do so. In the real world, many people with disabilities see the disability as part of their identities and say that if they were given the choice they'd stay as they are. (Research the disability pride movement for more info on that.) Maybe your blind guy sees his blindness as part of who he is--something that forces him to pay attention to the world, gives him a unique perspective. Maybe he's religious and he sees it as something that changes his focus to his deity instead of himself; or maybe he's an individualist who believes that his ability to navigate the world without eyesight makes him stronger.

Anyway, I'd go with the Feat/Flaw approach. It's an interesting concept--run with it.

[rmg22893]

It's also not a given that someone who could get rid of a disability if they wanted, would automatically choose to do so. In the real world, many people with disabilities see the disability as part of their identities and say that if they were given the choice they'd stay as they are. (Research the disability pride movement for more info on that.) Maybe your blind guy sees his blindness as part of who he is--something that forces him to pay attention to the world, gives him a unique perspective. Maybe he's religious and he sees it as something that changes his focus to his deity instead of himself; or maybe he's an individualist who believes that his ability to navigate the world without eyesight makes him stronger.

Exactly. As crappy as the movie is, the character concept reminds me of the movie At First Sight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwyZ0ji1GRU). The character is certainly eclectic; he is neutral good, yet undead, which I find works very well with the dichotomy of Shadow Sun Ninja. Surrounded by and immersed in darkness, the character strives to achieve an inner radiance through immortal repentance and an endless stream of good works.

[ericgrau]

Free blind fight is one option. The other option is to reduce the penalties not affected by blind fight. To prevent the curing blindness issue, you might cause the benefits to be lost once sight is restored and require X days of attunement to regain those benefits. And a larger number of days the first time someone goes blind.

I don't think the benefits should exceed the drawbacks, or even give major benefits like blindsense for two reasons:
1. It doesn't make sense. Bad things are not good things.
2. Good flavorful abilities involves options which are only good part of the time. A smart blind character might tip the scales in his favor by dropping fog, darkness, etc. Now you have something playable yet not dominating.

[Larkas]

I don't think the benefits should exceed the drawbacks, or even give major benefits like blindsense for two reasons:
1. It doesn't make sense. Bad things are not good things.

Ben Underwood begs to differ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QaCeosUmw) :smallbiggrin:

Just kidding, I know 99.9% of the blind people can never do what this boy does, but it is very awesome to know that SOMEONE can do it. And since D&D characters are both fantastic and above average people, I think free Blindsight/Blindsense is not too far fetched :smallsmile: Of course, that can seem like a bit too much to some people, so Blind-Fight might be enough, if only for reducing the feat tax to get Blindsight, 5ft.

[Psyren]

I don't think the benefits should exceed the drawbacks, or even give major benefits like blindsense for two reasons:
1. It doesn't make sense. Bad things are not good things.
2. Good flavorful abilities involves options which are only good part of the time. A smart blind character might tip the scales in his favor by dropping fog, darkness, etc. Now you have something playable yet not dominating.

Thing is, Blindsense and even Blindsight tend to have much shorter ranges than normal vision. And they even keep some drawbacks like the miss chance (for blindsense), or being based on another sense that can be turned off (like hearing.)

[Roguenewb]

Giving up true sight for 10-foot blindsight and 30-foot blindsense is probably okay, but it depends on the class it's being used with. For a monk or whatever it won't hurt anything. Is there some way for a wizard or artificer to break that? probably

[Callista]

Yeah, you can break anything. The real question is whether you will. If you're not into making an ass of yourself and annoying your DM, you won't, except as a theoretical optimization exercise.

Best thing to shoot for would be a character who isn't any better or worse--just different. Balance yourself with the rest of the party.

[nedz]

Giving up true sight for 10-foot blindsight and 30-foot blindsense is probably okay, but it depends on the class it's being used with. For a monk or whatever it won't hurt anything. Is there some way for a wizard or artificer to break that? probably

Well 30' vision probably screws Monks fast movement. It would also limit the utility of chargers. It would give wizards a problem since all their spells would be at less than close range, until they solved this problem with one of several spells at their disposal that is. The blindsense/blindsight would negate characters trying to hide though, Darkstalkers excluded.

[Larkas]

Well 30' vision probably screws Monks fast movement. It would also limit the utility of chargers. It would give wizards a problem since all their spells would be at less than close range, until they solved this problem with one of several spells at their disposal that is. The blindsense/blindsight would negate characters trying to hide though, Darkstalkers excluded.

Does it really? Doesn't your point-of-view move with you? (This is an honest question.)

[rmg22893]

Does it really? Doesn't your point-of-view move with you? (This is an honest question.)

This is something that D&D rules never touch on. It makes sense that only being able to see twenty or so feet in front of you would hamper your ability to move when you're moving more than twice that in about three seconds, but at the same time, people in D&D have no problem moving that same speed around a corner they've never been around before and not smacking into the wall when it turns out to be a dead-end.

[ericgrau]

IMO you should be able to see just fine after you move closer. Maybe initially you'll only move in the general direction of the noise which might cost you a little movement from the indirect path, but after that IMO you should be able to act normally. For that matter a DC 20 listen check should even let you move directly towards any loud noise (any normal combat noise), and for softer ones you have to beat the move silently by 20.

[Larkas]

This is something that D&D rules never touch on. It makes sense that only being able to see twenty or so feet in front of you would hamper your ability to move when you're moving more than twice that in about three seconds, but at the same time, people in D&D have no problem moving that same speed around a corner they've never been around before and not smacking into the wall when it turns out to be a dead-end.

Hmmm, strange. House ruling that you must make a low DC Reflex save not to slip or bump into something might be enough, I guess.