Warlock Help

[MysticMind]

I am playing as a warlock on a recent campaign and i can't find a prestige class that helps warlocks. I am not interested in losing my path with Eldritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple. All Ideas Welcome :smallsmile:

[Lostbutseeking]

Hellfire warlock is the quintessential warlock prc.

There is a good deal of information available here http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2915.0

To get the max out of hellfire warlock you need some way to mitigate the constitution damage without not taking the damage. This means Binder (Naberius) or the strongheart vest soulmeld.

[MysticMind]

Thank you, may i learn the name of the rulebook that contains it ??:smallcool:

[Lostbutseeking]

It's in Fiendish codex II.

[MysticMind]

Looks very nice for a sniper warlock :smallbiggrin:

[Boci]

Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of Nine Hells. Basically it advances your EB and also allows you to take 1 point of con damage to deal +2d6xlevel (its 3 levels long) additional damage, so it works best when combined with a binder dip for the vestige that allwos you to fast heal ability damage.

And swordsaged.

[Lostbutseeking]

Swordsaged indeed.

It's worth noting that you can advance it past it's 6d6 limit with Uncanny trickster (for another 4d6 over 3 levels) and legacy champion (requires Items of legacy in your campaign, 8 levels of advancement -16d6 over 10 levels.).

[Zilzmaer]

That is a very sticky point; most DMs probably wouldn't let you advance class features past the last level of the class. For TO, it's fine, but you'd definitely want to talk to your DM about it.

[Phase]

Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of Nine Hells. Basically it advances your EB and also allows you to take 1 point of con damage to deal +2d6xlevel (its 3 levels long) additional damage, so it works best when combined with a binder dip for the vestige that allwos you to fast heal ability damage.

Be aware that some DMs will not allow the binding of Naberius to heal ability damage from Hellfire Blasts, so check with them first before pursuing that option.

[JellyPooga]

Warlock, like the Scout, is one of those Classes that PrC-ing doesn't really do that many favours for. Not, at least, without jumping through some serious hoops to do it. If you're just looking for generic Warlock improvements, stick with the base Class; the PrC's that are actually useful for Warlock (like those already mentioned) have pretty specific fluff requirements or involve deviating from the "true path" (i.e. multiclassing).

[Lostbutseeking]

That is a very sticky point; most DMs probably wouldn't let you advance class features past the last level of the class. For TO, it's fine, but you'd definitely want to talk to your DM about it.

Given how comically weak warlocks are in combat I doubt most would have have a great deal of an issue with adding 4d6 extra hellfire (at the expense of 1d6 normal eldritch blast damage at level 20 so a net gain of 3d6) from uncanny trickster. Legacy champion is another issue due to how poor that entire book is.

[FMArthur]

Be aware that some DMs will not allow the binding of Naberius to heal ability damage from Hellfire Blasts, so check with them first before pursuing that option.

I think you are confusing Naberius with Strongheart Vest. There's absolutely nothing fishy about Naberius and it's just regular interaction with Hellfire, no tricks or loopholes.

The Strongheart Vest soulmeld is the one that is often contested. The combination technically works but is clearly against the intent of Hellfire's drawback description. It's too bad because you can get it with a feat instead of a dip.

[Phase]

Nah, I've seen people not allow the Naberious bit. It doesn't make as much sense as the Incarnum option not working (which I would rule myself,) but for some people the Naberious method is too easy.

*Shrugs* Not as widely contested, just thought I should give the warning in case of DM ruling.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Nah, I've seen people not allow the Naberious bit. It doesn't make as much sense as the Incarnum option not working (which I would rule myself,) but for some people the Naberious method is too easy.

*Shrugs* Not as widely contested, just thought I should give the warning in case of DM ruling.

They could just as easily carry around a wand of Lesser Restoration to restore the con damage after combat, which is not only RAW, but given as an example. How is blowing an entire class level to do the same thing 'too easy'?

Really, though... there's not a lot of PrC love for Warlocks. Other than the theurge classes for Warlock/Arcane and Warlock/Divine, and HFW, the pickings get very slim indeed.

In fact, here's a quick and dirty list, with relevance:

From CAdv:

Daggerspell Mage. Because it only requires a caster level, not casting x level spells, you can qualify. However, none of the class abilities actually work with spell-like abilities, so it's really a wash. The big thing is that it nets you 9/10 casting and +3d6 sneak attack, if you are attempting to make a warlock/rogue hybrid character, but really, it's not worth bothering with even then.

Maester. Technically you can qualify, but why anyone would want to would be beyond me. Well, maybe if you're wanting to exploit the Warlock12 ability to craft items, and you just want to be a Magic Item Mart yourself, this lets you do it marginally quicker. However, you blow most of your feats doing something that you can probably get away with by a Chameleon2 dip.

Virtuoso. Again, this is a technicality, and you'd have a problem getting the skill ranks without a dip somewhere, but you can qualify. Why you would want to be one is beyond me, but hey... it's an option. Sort of.

From CArc:

Acolyte of the Skin. Yes, you can qualify. They went to great pains to let a Warlock qualify. Too bad it sucks so badly.

Blood Magus. Yes, you can qualify. No, none of the abilities are meaningful for you. Since you use SLA's you don't use material components (with the exception of The Dead Walk, if you want them to hang around), you don't cast spells, and you can't scribe scrolls or brew potions without the Warlock12 class ability, which you can't get if you take this class all the way. Mutually exclusive abilities and losing two caster levels... yea, the capstone is nifty, but it's not worth the pain.

Enlightened Fist. Assuming you get the alignment problems ironed out, you can qualify. It is marginally more useful, since there's only two class abilities that depend on spells (Arcane Fist and Arcane Rejuvenation), but Hold Ray is an iffy and ambiguous thing. It might be able to be used with Eldritch Blast (making it superior to Hideous Blow). If you want to do a Monk/Warlock... you can try it, but I don't know how effective it would be.

Green Star Adept. Gain a whole bunch of immunities in exchange for not being able to do much. The 1/2 spellcasting advancement hurts you even more than most full casters. However, if you are merely wanting a dip to get into this as a part of some other build, Warlock works well for that dip, netting you a couple of possibly useful SLA"s as you advance. YMMV

Mindbender. An excellent one-level dip to get Telepathy 100' for Mindsight so you can be the party's radar.

Wild Mage. It really hurts, but you can qualify. Wild Magic drops your caster level by 3, but since you don't cast spells, you don't get to add the 1d6. Random Deflector, Student of Chaos and Chaotic Mind work just fine. Since you don't have spell slots or prepared spells, you can't use Reckless Dweomer. Wildstrike works just fine. But it probably hurts you more than it would be worth bothering with.

From Complete Champion:

Paragnostic Apostle. Not the worst possible thing, although most of the abilities aren't relevant. Manifest Ethos might be good when paired with Vitriolic Blast to bypass immunity to acid when targeting opponents with high SR, assuming you can play Alignment Roulette. Since Golems are always True Neutral, you can't use this to hit Clay Golems with.

Sanctified One. Some of the abilities may be relevant to your build, but losing three caster levels really hurts.

From Complete Divine:

Ur Priest. If you're wanting to Theurge it up, this makes a very good class to do it with. Your only problem will be getting your Fort save up in time.

From Complete Mage:

Eldritch Disciple. Warlock/divine theurge class with somewhat relevant class abilities.

Eldritch Theurge. Warlock/arcane theurge class

Enlightened Spirit. The only Completes PrC which is specifically designed as a Warlock. Too bad it's a specifically designed TRAP.

From Complete Scoundrel:

Cloaked Dancer. You can, assuming you can get the Perform skill up there, but why?

Fortune's Friend. Entering is easy, getting anything useful out of it is the hard part.

Uncanny Trickster. If your GM lets you advance HFW beyond the 3 levels by using this class's class feature, then it is rather useful. Otherwise... not so much.

Those are all the completes. There's probably a few others out there, but as you can see... there's a pile of traps, with precious few treasures among the piles of... biological waste product.

[Greyfeld85]

They could just as easily carry around a wand of Lesser Restoration to restore the con damage after combat, which is not only RAW, but given as an example. How is blowing an entire class level to do the same thing 'too easy'?

He didn't say it was logical, he just said that some DMs aren't as system-savvy and are likely to look at you crazy when you try to pass it by them.

Hell, not too long ago I was talking with a guy at work that labored under the impression that "rogues are overpowered." Course, I didn't have the time to explain why this viewpoint is wrong, but you get the point. Not everybody really knows how the system works.

[JadePhoenix]

Cyran Avenger is pretty cool for warlocks.

[Socratov]

Nah, I've seen people not allow the Naberious bit. It doesn't make as much sense as the Incarnum option not working (which I would rule myself,) but for some people the Naberious method is too easy.

*Shrugs* Not as widely contested, just thought I should give the warning in case of DM ruling.

well, you are partially right... Binding naberius using a bineder elvel dip works just fine by RAW even. Binding Naberius by binding feat doesn't, since it will only net you the skillbonuses. And yes, Strongheart Vest is heavily contested...

[kardar233]

The Melee Warlock Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159708) is your friend.

I like to play Clawlocks, using Eldritch Claws from Dragon #358.

Bard is a pretty good dip for Clawlock if you happen to be a Silverbrow Human, Dragonwrought Kobold or other Dragonblooded race. You can use Dragonfire Inspiration to add more d6s to your claw attacks, and Snowflake Wardance can get you closer to SAD, as will a Paladin dip.

[limejuicepowder]

Well this isn't RAW, but binder/anima mage is pretty nice. Anima mage doesn't technically work with warlock, but it takes so little tweaking I would think most DM's would be ok with it. Advancing warlock and binder, you'd be the ultimate in all-day, at-will abilities. Having binds opens up your tactics and options significantly.

[Vizzerdrix]

I've always been a fan of Arcane trickster warlocks, myself. If you're going Eldritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple that isn't much help to you, though.

So what's the full build going to look like, if I may ask?

[Duke of URL]

Ur Priest. If you're wanting to Theurge it up, this makes a very good class to do it with. Your only problem will be getting your Fort save up in time.

Binder 1 / Warlock 4 / Ur-Priest 2 / Mystic Theurge 7 / Hellfire Warlock 3 / ??? 3 works just fine (though a bit "draggy" in the 7-10 level range). And very thematic. (I like to slip of level of Mindbender in there, too.)

The Binder level gets you the Fort boost you need and the vestige to heal the Hellfire damage. When to intersperse the HFW levels is a matter of personal taste -- you basically delay 1 cleric spell level per HFW level.