Gnomish scopes and sneak attack range.

[Kulture]

A point of contention among my friends is whether the gnomish scope detailed in the Arms and equipment guide would allow a rogue to sneak attack at longer ranges.

The scope's description says that it allows a user to treat an opponent as 2 range increments closer after the first increment.
With a heavy crossbow this gives sneak attack between 1-30ft and 120-270ft, as well as point blank shot and dead eye.

Would this be the case or is the wording just off?

Any clarification anyone could give would be much appreciated.

[The Dark Fiddler]

The scope's description says that it allows a user to treat an opponent as 2 range increments closer after the first increment.
With a heavy crossbow this gives sneak attack between 1-30ft and 120-270ft, as well as point blank shot and dead eye.

I could see it being argued either way. On one hand, treating a distance of, say, 150 feet as two range increments closer would in fact be within 30 feet, and thus trigger sneak attack. On the other hand, it just says you treat it as 2 range increments closer, which still leaves the distance at 150 feet or whatever it's actually at.

Allowing it does have the odd effect of letting you sneak attack for a bit, then not being able to sneak attack, then being able to sneak attack again, though.

Also, disclaimer: I don't have the book, so I'm going off of what you said the description is. If it says something along the lines of "for the purposes of attack penalties" then no, sneak attack wouldn't be affected.

[Cespenar]

Allowing it does have the odd effect of letting you sneak attack for a bit, then not being able to sneak attack, then being able to sneak attack again, though.


Actually it makes kinda sense. The band in between means it's too far for the naked eye but too close when looked through the powerful gnomish scope. The gnomes apparently didn't think of adjustable scopes yet. :smalltongue:

[Kulture]

Crossbow sniper even mentions that it can take the form of a custom scope.
Maybe the extra 30ft of coverage is adding a magnification ring to the scope?

[Cieyrin]

I honestly don't know what range increments of ranged weapons and sneak attack range have to do with each other, as they're not terribly dependent on one another. The only thing the scope does is reduce the range penalties when beyond 2 range increments, it doesn't change how sneak attack works. If you want that, that's what the feat Crossbow Sniper is for.

While I could see it house ruled to affect sneak attack ranges, by RAW the sights have no effect on how far away a sneak attack can be effective from.

[Marlowe]

Agree with the above. Sneak attack range is a fixed distance that is not effected by your weapon, so I don't see how it can be "argued either way".

[LibraryOgre]

I tend to agree. Given that, heavy crossbow or throwing knife, you can't sneak attack beyond 30', the scope would not help.

[HeadlessMermaid]

A point of contention among my friends is whether the gnomish scope detailed in the Arms and equipment guide would allow a rogue to sneak attack at longer ranges.

The scope's description says that it allows a user to treat an opponent as 2 range increments closer after the first increment.
With a heavy crossbow this gives sneak attack between 1-30ft and 120-270ft, as well as point blank shot and dead eye.
As others have said, range increment has nothing to do with sneak attack range. At 30 ft, you can sneak attack, even if it's at the third range increment (say, with a throwing dagger). But at 31 ft, you can't sneak attack, even if it's still at the first increment (say, with a longbow).

So the rules don't allow this.

And personally, I wouldn't like it as a houserule, either. Sneak attack range is justified thus: "A rogue can’t strike with deadly accuracy from beyond that range." So it's not only about spotting the weak point (that part is separately addressed), it's also about shooting accurately, keeping a steady hand. And a scope does nothing to improve that.

By the way, the item's name is "Gnome Crossbow Sight", A&E p.36 (it took me a while to find it).

[nedz]

The range of Sneak Attack, and Point Blank Shot, are completely independant of the missile weapon being used.

Now I can see the logic behind the scope extending ranges like these, and it does make perfect sense, but it would be a houserule.