So now we have a pirate ship

[JadePhoenix]

OK. We just got ourselves a longship. Our DM is allowing us to build the crew - we have 12 guys. One of them is 6th level, one is 4th level, two are 3rd level and eight are 1st level. They can only have NPC classes and they have standard gear for their level. Which classes should we choose? I think the 6th level guy should be an Adept, but other than that I have no idea.

Also, between loot and money we pooled, we've got 20k to spend on improving the ship. Thoughts?

[Namfuak]

If they can be player classes, the level 1s should be swordsages so they get maximum skill points (unless they can't get more than an int modifier of -2, in which case a rogue gets more skill points). If they can't, experts are probably going to be your best bet, since it is doubtful that they will be of much use in combat in any case, and experts get more skills and skill points. They should probably at least have profession: sailing, use rope, swim, craft: carpentry, craft: tailoring (for wood and sail repairs), and 5 more skills of your choosing.

Also, one of the higher level guys should have survival on their class list, so that they can put 5 ranks in and always be able to discern north.

[JadePhoenix]

If they can be player classes, the level 1s should be swordsages so they get maximum skill points (unless they can't get more than an int modifier of -2, in which case a rogue gets more skill points).
They can't. We also consider the Swordsage x6 skill points at first level a typo.

If they can't, experts are probably going to be your best bet, since it is doubtful that they will be of much use in combat in any case, and experts get more skills and skill points.
Well, they are not much in combat against anything that is a threat to us, but leaving the ship undefended hardly seems like a good idea.

They should probably at least have profession: sailing, use rope, swim, craft: carpentry, craft: tailoring (for wood and sail repairs), and 5 more skills of your choosing.
That looks like a good selection! Thanks.

Also, one of the higher level guys should have survival on their class list, so that they can put 5 ranks in and always be able to discern north.
Wait a minute, by RAW we can get drinking water through a Survival check while in open sea?! lol, I'm sure that is going to get houseruled.

[Righteous Doggy]

If you want a mix of combat and of skills... and can only use srd :P
I would make the highest an adept, the second an expert and the lowest a mix of experts and at least 2 adepts(for utility) and maybe 2 warriors for gaurds. but thats just my opinion. If you have 20k couldn't your hire mercenaires to defend? They are pretty cheap. btw. did you know a chicken only cost 2 cp? Convince the dm a housecat is about as valuable, buy an army. No one could survive that!.

Edit: btw, I think warriors are only worth it if they come with good armor. They might actually be worth more if you steal the armor. the bab at low levels isn't very different, and it just has a little more hp from HD and proficiency

[Namfuak]

They can't. We also consider the Swordsage x6 skill points at first level a typo.

Well, they are not much in combat against anything that is a threat to us, but leaving the ship undefended hardly seems like a good idea.



Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant that only the 1st level guys would be experts. I'd probably say make the 5th level guy an adept as you said, and maybe the 4th level one as well (since 4th level adepts get access to 2nd level spells). The two 3rd levels could either be straight warriors, or start as warriors and take a level in expert (I'd say that with all the 1st level experts, you'll probably want them to get the extra health over the extra skill points).

Maybe one of the 1st levels could be a commoner with the chicken infested feat, so you never run out of food at sea. If your DM wouldn't go for that, a repeating trap of create food and water would probably be worth looking into, I don't know if it would fit your budget though. Maybe a ring of that spell 4/day? That would be enough for all the crew members, at least. If you have 4 in the party, you would need to up it to 6/day to feed everyone (unless two of you are small, it says 3 humans so you could rule that smaller creatures need less to eat).




Wait a minute, by RAW we can get drinking water through a Survival check while in open sea?! lol, I'm sure that is going to get houseruled.

I wouldn't be surprised.

[JadePhoenix]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant that only the 1st level guys would be experts. I'd probably say make the 5th level guy an adept as you said, and maybe the 4th level one as well (since 4th level adepts get access to 2nd level spells). The two 3rd levels could either be straight warriors, or start as warriors and take a level in expert (I'd say that with all the 1st level experts, you'll probably want them to get the extra health over the extra skill points).
Hm, that looks like a good idea. Between high hit points and reach weapons, they could be good line of defense against invaders.


Maybe one of the 1st levels could be a commoner with the chicken infested feat, so you never run out of food at sea. If your DM wouldn't go for that, a repeating trap of create food and water would probably be worth looking into, I don't know if it would fit your budget though.
That's not the kind of thing we do, specially exploiting flaws. But Survival makes getting food quite easy (and there are fishes around, so it's not that much of a stretch, even).


Maybe a ring of that spell 4/day? That would be enough for all the crew members, at least. If you have 4 in the party, you would need to up it to 6/day to feed everyone (unless two of you are small, it says 3 humans so you could rule that smaller creatures need less to eat).
We have a party of 6, 12 crewmates and 3 passengers...


If you want a mix of combat and of skills... and can only use srd :P
We can use other books, but the only NPC class out of the SRD is Eberron-exclusive and it would be too much of a stretch to ask for refluffing and find a way to put a scribe in a pirate ship


If you have 20k couldn't your hire mercenaires to defend? They are pretty cheap.
That would be quite risky, we are running from someone who has a lot more money than we do. Also, we want to use that money to buy weapons for the ship, food and water reserves, that kind of stuff.
Still... I don't know. I'd feel a lot safer with a few higher-leveled warriors protecting our ship.


btw. did you know a chicken only cost 2 cp? Convince the dm a housecat is about as valuable, buy an army. No one could survive that!.
lol


Edit: btw, I think warriors are only worth it if they come with good armor. They might actually be worth more if you steal the armor. the bab at low levels isn't very different, and it just has a little more hp from HD and proficiency
They come with standard equipment, but I think the extra hp and knowing how to use good reach weapons make the warriors relevant enough.

[avr]

Maybe one magewright (ECS) as ships carpenter instead of an adept? Animate rope & make whole could be kind of handy.

[Vizzerdrix]

Have you thought about what races and feats yer crew will have yet?

Race ideas.
At 6th level, a raptorian would have some flight. Granted a Raptorian Adept isn't gonna have a lot of survivability but it could be useful.

Kenku Experts will be able to give/get +3 with aid another checks. (I think their is a feat that lets any race do this. Maybe see if it'll stack on Kenku for +4 with aid another?)

Warforged are always handy to have. If yer lv 3 slots are warforged warriors you can give them an armor feat (Adamantine, Mithril, or Ironwood) and Shocking Fist (adds electric damage to the slam). Maybe reach trippers would be better though. A warforged Divine Adept could take the domain that stops pressure damage. You could use it to salvage wrecks :smallbiggrin:

Hengeyokai come in all sorts of useful shapes. Crabs and carps don't have to worry about drowning and could hide in the bilge if the ship is attacked. Cranes and sparrows (re-fluff them to gulls and albatrosses maybe?) could keep lookout from the air and monkeys could..... Um, be monkeys?

Lastly, Lesser planar folk come with all sorts of tasty bonuses and SLAs that could be handy.

One more thing. Adepts get familiars, yes? Can they get Improved familiars?

[Malachei]

I'd have adepts, as well, and experts, with perhaps one or two warriors.

I'd include an aristocrat for roleplaying fun, plus he/she might help dealing with (port) authorities.

[Righteous Doggy]

I don't have it on me, but I did once have to build a whole ship and crew for a game. The strongholders builder guide helped me with ideas and lackies, if you can get your hands on that.
Also, I'd like to throw out there that you should hire maids. but they secretly have a level in swordsage for when things go down...
Edit: and don't forget the Hadozee race! A race of seafaring flying monkeys from Stormwrack. Sailor is always an inclass skill, they can glide, have a bonus to climb/balance, and get dodge as a bonus feat!

[White_Drake]

btw. did you know a chicken only cost 2 cp? Convince the dm a housecat is about as valuable, buy an army. No one could survive that!.

According to the 2nd Edition DMG cats cost 2 sp. On a related note, my DM once found rules for a Decanter of Endless Kittens on dandiwiki. I'm a cat person, so my characeter got it for his loot. We houseruled (again) that we could replace kittens in the decanter and withdraw them again in the same order. Now I've got a porta-kitty. Sorry for going off topic there.
I train most of them as warriors, buy the self-sailing rigging from A&EG, and then get a bunch of ballistae. You may find Chapter 3: Vehicles of the A&EG of help here.

[Gavinfoxx]

Why don't you try to get Tier 6 & Tier 5 and a few Tier 4 classes, rather than 'NPC' classes? That would give you quite a bit more variety.

Here is the list of the low tier classes...


Tier Outline
6(3+3NPC): Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind (CP 9), Warrior, Samurai (CW 6), Truenamer (TM 198)

5(14+2NPC): Battledancer (DC 26), Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements), Eidolon (Gh 16), Expert, Fighter, Healer (MH 8), Knight, Lurk (CP 13), Magewright (ECS 256), Mariner (LotT 13), Mlar (Polyhedron #159), Monk, Ninja (CAd 5), Noble (DCS 50), Paladin, Samurai (with Imperious Command feat), Soulborn (MoI 25), Soulknife, Swashbuckler (CW 11)

4(18+1NPC): Adept, Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept (with Breath Effects), Dragon Shaman (PHB2 11), Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant), Jester (DC 36), Hexblade (CW 5), Marshal, Master (WotL 21), Montebank (DC 42), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon 156), Ranger, Rogue, Savant (DC 45), Scout (CAd 10), Spellthief, Sohei (OA 27), Totemist, Warlock (CArc 5), Warmage (CArc 10)

That would get you the Mariner class, which would rock for this.

Also, if the DM wants to use something I wrote up for filling towns with NPC 'classes', and having towns be unique and have unique sorts of people in them, here's a little thingy I wrote some time ago...




Most of the population of any given land is Commoners. They are probably farmers of some sort, but they could be herders or fishermen or whatever.
There are a few Healers in each town. These are your hedge priests.
There are a few Warriors in each town, and slightly more in fortified towns or those with a Militia tradition.

This method makes towns somewhat like Heroes of Might and Magic, or perhaps more accurately, Kohan Immortal Sovereigns or even Age of Wonders. The idea here is that each city or town has to specialize to be really good at something, and you want the sorts of abilities found in each city are different than in other cities.

Each and every location can pick one tier 4 class that they are especially good at producing from List one.

Settlements larger than Villages have an extra 'slot'. This can be filled in two ways. Either a training camp for producing extra numbers of people from one of the options in list one, which is the main way an area can produce large numbers of people from that option, and lets you choose again extra classes that area produces from that camp, or to retrain people to have those classes. For example, if you have a martial training facility as the 'extra' facility, you can produce people from the Martial list beyond the small numbers of the wealthy that are produced naturally in each settlement. If you want to produce people with skillsets like those from the bottom of society, you can build a facility to do that. The second option is to have an option from List Two, to get access to more exotic classes. Filling an extra slot automatically lets you choose another Tier 4 class that such a place is known for. The Tier 4 class chosen doesn't have to be from the slot you just filled, though. It's just that bigger places tend to attract more capable people in general. The tier 4 classes are in brackets.

At the start of the game, you can't double slot from list number 2; that, along with other upgrades is to happen in actual gameplay (such as upgrading your adepts to be Religious Adepts, for example).

The capital starts with two extra slots, rather than just one, being a City.

Sometimes, the DM might have someone exceptional come about in certain areas. Some suggested options for these are in double parentheses.

LIST ONE:

CRAFTSMEN: For each settlement, pick two classes from this list that the craftsmen tend to have in their guilds: Expert, Healer, Magewright, Mlar, [Master-Craftsman].

CRIMINALS: For each settlement, pick two classes from this list that the of people on the edge of society tend to have: Expert (with exotic, criminal-specific skills allowed), Swashbuckler, Ninja, Lurk, Chaos Monk, Battle Dancer [Rogue, Savant, Nightstalker, Master-Professional]. If boosted by DM, might produce the occasional ((Psychic Rogue))

BUREAUCRATS: Each settlement has nobles whose job it is to do actual management and governing and to oppress the peasants, so pick a class from this list of people who care about governing places and oppressing folk. This is your aristocracy that doesn't care overly much about fighting: Aristocrat, Noble, [Savant, Master-Performer]. If boosted by the DM, this might produce the occasional ((Bard, Factotum)).

MARTIAL: Each town also has nobles whose job it is to generally be wealthy, and use that wealth to equip themselves and train themselves in the martial arts. These are your nobles whose job it is to defend the peasantry, as well as oppress them, so other people don't get to oppress them. Pick two classes from this list for each town: Paladin (and variants), Knight, Samurai, Fighter, Mariner (if near water), [Dungeon Crusher Fighter (this is, in general, fighters with various useful ACFs chosen; look at the fighter handbook if you want to know about them. Thug is a good example.), Marshal]. If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Warblade, Crusader, Ardent))

Note that Warriors are easy to produce. You don't need a facility to do that. Any commoner that you draft and give a few weeks of intense weapons training and physical conditioning can be a Warrior.

LIST TWO:

ASCETIC: For an area where people are introspective, like monasteries or whatnot, pick two classes from this list that such an area produces: Divine Mind, Monk, Soulborn, Soulknife, [Adept, Sohei]. If boosted by the DM, this area might produce the occasional ((Swordsage, Psychic Warrior, Wilder, Shugenja))

ARCANE: For areas where specialized arcane skills are taught, pick one class that such a place teaches: [Dragonfire Adept, Dragon Shaman, Spellthief, Warmage, Master-Sage] If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Beguiler, Duskblade))

NATURE: If it is a nature-y training area, it can produce pick one class this place teaches: . If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Incarnate, Shaman, Druid with several nerfs, Ranger with a lot of useful obscure ACF's))

UNHALLOWED: An incredibly freaky, probably evil, place that is near indescribable can produce Eidolons, [Jester, Hexblade, Montebank, Warlock]. If boosted by the DM, might produce the occasional ((Binder, Dread Necromancer))

[B]EXAMPLES:

Example village 1. This Village has an Asian theme, and is home to a small Ninja clan.
Craftsman: Mlar, Expert
Criminals-Slotted: Ninja, [Nightstalker]
Bureaucrat: Noble
Martial: Samurai, Paladin

Example Town with Extra Slot double-filled for Martial. This coastal town is especially good at training a wide variety of martial types of people, and in large numbers.
Craftsman: Magewright, Healer
Criminals: Expert, Swashbuckler
Bureaucrat: Aristocrat
Martial-Slotted: [ACF'd Fighter], Mariner, Knight, [Marshal]

Example town with a heavy nature and mounted combat and animal using focus
Craftsman: Healer, Expert
Criminals: Ninja, Battle Dancer
Bureaucrat: Aristocrat
Martial: Knight, [Marshal]
Nature: [Ranger]

Example Town with Extra Slot filled for Ascetic. This town is especially good at producing and exporting lots of goods, having Tier 4 in Bureaucrat and in Craftsman. Further, the people in the monastery don't need much equipment...
Craftsman: Expert, [Master-Craftsman]
Criminals: Lurk, Battle Dancer
Bureaucrat: [Savant]
Martial: Fighter, Paladin
Ascetic: Soulborn, Soulknife

Example Town focused 100% of crafting magical items. This town has access to lots of spellcasters that can make magical and psionic items that don't require casters of levels beyond 3rd. In other words, if you want a town where people can work together to attune gems, brew potions, craft cognizance crystals, craft universal items, craft wondrous items, infuse herbs, craft alchemical items, scribe scrolls, and ink psionic tattoos or spellstoring tattoos, this is the town to do it. If the item requires a power or spell or prayer or item creation feat that can be made by the abilities of characters level 3 or under characters from this list, it can be done. If you are curious where these things are from, go to realmshelps and search the feats by item creation; these are the things that can be made by characters of level 3 and under. This does not maximize invocations or supernatural abilities in general, just ones that can be used for item creation.
Craftsman: Healer, (Magewright OR Mlar)
Criminals: Lurk, [Nightstalker]
Bureaucrat: Noble
Martial: Paladin, Sentinel (NG Paladin)
Ascetic: [Adept]
If this is a capital, add either:
Arcane: [Warmage] OR
Unhallowed: [Jester]
This maximizes the actual prayers, spells and psionic powers available to the population for crafting into items.

Example Capital City with a focus in arcane and evil things, where people with spells or invocations or overtly supernatural abilities are considered more useful than those without, and people who can't activate magic items or have some sort of supernatural ability are oppressed, so anyone who is anyone makes sure they get some sort of magical training.
Craftsman: Magewright, Mlar
Criminals-Slotted: Lurk, Ninja
Bureaucrat: [Savant]
Martial: Despot (LE Paladin), Paladin of Tyrrany (LE Paladin)
Arcane: [Dragon Shaman]
Unhallowed: [Warlock]