Question on Battle of Helm's Deep (movie)

[danzibr]

My wife and I are watching The Two Towers for the umpteenth time, and there's something we were never able to agree upon. After the Uruk-Hai place the two big metal things full of gunpowder (or whatever it is) beneath the wall, then the dude with the bright torch thing runs toward the explosives. Here's my question: after Legolas shoots him twice, does he jump in or dive in?

I totally think he dives, like, "Screw you guys, I'm going down in a blaze of glory!"

But my wife thinks he's dying from Legolas's arrows and stumbles/trips and is like, "Oh shi-!"

[Tvtyrant]

I always thought it was the former myself.

[Marnath]

I also think he dived in. It didn't look to me like he felt the arrows at all aside from when he stumbled the second time, but that could just have been momentum from the impact.

[Cikomyr]

A mix of the two, I'd guess. He wanted to reach the end at all cost, but he was almost out of juice to run there.

So he desperatily tried to reach the bombs in his final leap. Quite an heroic Orc, when you think about it.

If you think about it, the orcs were probably the most selfless individuals in the storyline. They are willing to charge impossible enemies just to support their brethren.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

It looks to me like he throws himself in, as you can see at 1:15 here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vvJZaXZPZk). Determined, wasn't he?

[Comrade]

That single orc is probably my greatest inspiration in life. Put one arrow in him, put another, he don't give a ****, he just keeps runnin' for his dreams without a damn for what life throws at him.

[Feytalist]

"His dreams" consisting of being blown to pulp, along with his mates nearest to him.

Quite inspiring, certainly.

[MLai]

**** YEAH! DOWN WIT TEH WALL!!!!! :smallfurious:

OrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOr kzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkz OrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkzOrkz

[ThePhantasm]

You just don't get it man. The valiance...the determination...the sheer beauty of it all...why it makes a man weep to see such spirit, such drive...would that we all had the determination to pursue our hopes and dreams the way that orc did in the last seconds of his life.

And all this he was able to do after probably only having maggoty bread to eat for three stinkin' days!

[KillianHawkeye]

That single orc is probably my greatest inspiration in life. Put one arrow in him, put another, he don't give a ****, he just keeps runnin' for his dreams without a damn for what life throws at him.

I'll bet he got reincarnated as a honey badger. :smallamused::smallwink:

[Sean Mirrsen]

I'll bet he got reincarnated as a honey badger. :smallamused::smallwink:Maybe he was a reincarnated honey badger?

[Androgeus]

Maybe he was a reincarnated honey badger?

Maybe he was a honey badger in disguise?

[Dienekes]

That single orc is probably my greatest inspiration in life. Put one arrow in him, put another, he don't give a ****, he just keeps runnin' for his dreams without a damn for what life throws at him.

I was actually much more curious why they made the guy charge down the line. I mean the orcs were all around the bomb ready to die anyway, so why didn't they just light the bombs while in the protection in the hollow of the wall. Making a guy charge down with a torch was just silly planning.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I was actually much more curious why they made the guy charge down the line. I mean the orcs were all around the bomb ready to die anyway, so why didn't they just light the bombs while in the protection in the hollow of the wall. Making a guy charge down with a torch was just silly planning.Hauling a fire-sensitive bomb through a battlefield filled with torch-carrying orcs is a much worse prospect, I think. The runner orc probably carried a special chemical torch (or even more likely, a smaller bomb acting as a detonator) to avoid this issue.

[Traab]

Oh yeah, he did a badass superman leap into the bombs. I cant get over how bad lego-my-eggo-lass was with those shots. I mean twice and he cant bring him down? This is the guy able to stab you to death with an arrow, tear it out of your face, and shoot someone else in the heart with the gore encrusted arrow in the space of 3 seconds, and he cant shoot down a brightly illuminated, unarmored target with two shots to work with? Either that orc was hopped up on pcp, or legolas wanted the wall blown up. I smell conspiracy.

[razark]

He jumps. You can see him pushing off with his leg.


"His dreams" consisting of being blown to pulp, along with his mates nearest to him.
Did they? All the orc knew was that he had been ordered "Take this torch in there, and do that to these." He didn't have any knowledge of explosives, only what he was told to do.

[dehro]

I was actually much more curious why they made the guy charge down the line. I mean the orcs were all around the bomb ready to die anyway, so why didn't they just light the bombs while in the protection in the hollow of the wall. Making a guy charge down with a torch was just silly planning.

rule of cool, in PJ's peculiar way.

I'd say that the stuntman definitely dives. whether that was what how it was scripted or not. it could be a timing issue where they had to shoot that in so many frames/seconds and not more.

[Mewtarthio]

You just don't get it man. The valiance...the determination...the sheer beauty of it all...why it makes a man weep to see such spirit, such drive...would that we all had the determination to pursue our hopes and dreams the way that orc did in the last seconds of his life.

Admit it: You all heard the Chariots of Fire theme as that orc was running.

[Tavar]

Either that orc was hopped up on pcp, or legolas wanted the wall blown up. I smell conspiracy.
Considering the way that the berserkers were presented, I wouldn't rule the bolded part out.

[Muz]

You just don't get it man. The valiance...the determination...the sheer beauty of it all...why it makes a man weep to see such spirit, such drive...would that we all had the determination to pursue our hopes and dreams the way that orc did in the last seconds of his life.

You mean the drive and "valiance" to blow himself up as part of an effort to slaughter women and children?

...Really?

[Cikomyr]

You mean the drive and "valiance" to blow himself up as part of an effort to slaughter women and children?

...Really?

You are applying human concepts to alien minds. For the Uruk-Hai, there was no such things as children, for they are born grown. There is no thing as mothers, for they are born in a vat.

There is no such thing as a non-combatant, because anyone not able to carry a sword and head into battle is but a burden to the group.

This heroic Huruk-Hai, in his society paradigm, was a true selfless hero. He sacrificed himself willingly to save the lives of thousands of his brethren who were, up to that point, crushing against the fortress's walls with no results.

[Muz]

Sorry, but the real-world parallels make me uncomfortable and still a little angered by the original statement.

Given board policy on such things, though, and to wash the bad taste out of my mouth, I'll say no more.

[dehro]

Sorry, but the real-world parallels make me uncomfortable and still a little angered by the original statement.

Given board policy on such things, though, and to wash the bad taste out of my mouth, I'll say no more.

this..also, movie Uruk-hai had been alive for..a few weeks at most.. and were never big in the brain departrment. I think you're giving them too much credit by assuming they've developed a society with values such as to have heroes and such. they were pretty much point-shout-kill grunts, in the movie.

[Tengu_temp]

I'd like to point out that courage, often suicidal courage, is a common trait among bad guys in all kinds of fiction. Doesn't make them any more valiant or less villainous.

[Pokonic]

Maybe he was a honey badger in disguise?

Actualy, all of Saurmans orcs are actualy orc/badgers, rather than orc/humans. It all makes sence now!

[Pokonic]

Maybe he was a honey badger in disguise?

Actualy, all of Saurmans orcs are actualy orc/badgers, rather than orc/humans. It all makes sence now!

[Morty]

The Uruk-Hai in the movies were unquestioningly obedient to Saruman, so if he told that one to take a torch and stick it into that bomb, that was what he'd do unless killed before reaching it. And I wouldn't rule "pumped full of drugs" out either, since I remember something about Uruk-Hai berserkers using them.

[MLai]

The most inspirational moments of the 2nd movie, mostly came from the Uruk Hai, AFAIC. Not the ordinary goblinish orcs; I mean the gleaming Uruk Hai. I wept alongside Wormtongue.

The Making Of The Two Towers documentary videos showcasing the Uruk Hai actors were also inspirational to me. There was a sense of comaraderie with them working in adverse conditions together (at least that's what the videos implied and wanted you to feel). My manly (or orcish?) spirit soared watching the host of armoured Uruk Hai stuntsmen stomping the ground and singing in the freezing rain while waiting for their shoot.

[Brother Oni]

I cant get over how bad lego-my-eggo-lass was with those shots. I mean twice and he cant bring him down?

To be fair to Legolas, considering the angle (high elevated) limiting the available target area, a moving target and environmental conditions (night time, raining, heavy combat), he does well to score two fatal (although not immediately lethal) shots.

Something that brightly illuminated at night does a good job of dazzling you, actually making it harder to hit.

That said, the uruk-hai is definitely on something, be it a berserker fury or combat drugs.


My manly (or orcish?) spirit soared watching the host of armoured Uruk Hai stuntsmen stomping the ground and singing in the freezing rain while waiting for their shoot.

I think the Uruk-hai stuntsmen being mostly maori and having a sense of rhythm helps. :smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

making off dvd actually tells us that during that night of shooting, the uruk hai were in fact (as were the elves, off screen) doing Haka-like stuff to challenge one another and keep their spirits up

[danzibr]

My personal opinion is that you both took my words a little more seriously than they were meant to be taken. :smallannoyed: A little meaning way too seriously.
I found the original post in good humor.

[Traab]

making off dvd actually tells us that during that night of shooting, the uruk hai were in fact (as were the elves, off screen) doing Haka-like stuff to challenge one another and keep their spirits up

I seriously would have paid extra money just to see a scene where the uruk-hai and the elves at helms deep did hakas against each other. You cant deny that that would have been both hilarious and badass. Elves on the hilarious side, badass on the orc side. Can you imagine the sight of ten thousand orcs doing a haka in time with each other? Its intimidating and impressive watching a soccer team do it. The earth would be shaking, the voices would crack rocks from sheer volume, and the fact that yes, the orcs ARE in fact cannibals, would add a lot of extra intimidation to the whole thing.

[Brother Oni]

the fact that yes, the orcs ARE in fact cannibals, would add a lot of extra intimidation to the whole thing.

And this differs from the Maoris, how (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyd_massacre)? :smalltongue:

During the haka done during rugby match warm ups, the NZ players stick their tongues out at the opposition - this isn't a childish insult, it's derived from a Maori threat of 'I'm going to kill you then I'm going to eat you'.

That said, elves versus uruk hai in a haka shout off would be epic to see. :smallbiggrin:The elves wouldn't be as hillarious as you think since they wear more metal armour, the sound of metal on metal would probably echo throughout the location, making it just as intimidating.

[Traab]

And this differs from the Maoris, how (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyd_massacre)? :smalltongue:

During the haka done during rugby match warm ups, the NZ players stick their tongues out at the opposition - this isn't a childish insult, it's derived from a Maori threat of 'I'm going to kill you then I'm going to eat you'.

That said, elves versus uruk hai in a haka shout off would be epic to see. :smallbiggrin:The elves wouldn't be as hillarious as you think since they wear more metal armour, the sound of metal on metal would probably echo throughout the location, making it just as intimidating.

Yeah I know the maori were cannibals, thats what I meant, after all, if the nz team can be intimidating when im fairly sure they wont be devouring their opponents after the game, imagine the effect 10,000 orcs sticking their tongues out at you like that would have, when you KNOW they will eat you if they win.

As for the elves, true, they were wearing pretty heavy duty metal armor, but still, its more the shock to the system of seeing these staid and proper elvish folks doing a dance like that and threatening to kill and eat the orcs in return that would make me laugh more than them looking silly doing it. *EDIT* Especially considering how uncomfortable that one elf looked just from being hugged by aragorn.