Advice for a DM: Sample Party builds

[Fyermind]

I am trying to create balanced mid op party to test generic encounters.
I want to avoid including a god in the party, because that would give me a false idea of the challenge of an encounter.

What I am looking for:
4 build outlines that go up to level 10-15 and are functional at every level.
All combat roles filled for a dungeon crawl
party does NOT revolve around any one trick

Two flaws are allowed, as is one trait. Any Published WoTC material except Dragon magazine and dragon compendium.

If the build involves something that would break a game RAW but an easy houserule can fix it I am ok with it. (example below)

To start things off here is an idea I am currently playing with is:
BSF: Crusader 3/Cloistered cleric 1/ Prestige Paladin 1/ RKV 10 (Houserule: Only one turn attempt may be expended per round)

Skill monkey: Bard 20 (Bardic knack, knowledge devotion, jack of all trades, dragonfire inspiration)

Glass cannon: Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/Fighter 1/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ ??? +9 (Arcane strike, power attack, a few buffs, no more cheese than the class features themselves I think.)

Utility Caster/trapfinder: Beguiler 20

My worry is that the RKV and possibly gish will be far stronger than most optimized characters of their level... should I be worried? Will they overshadow the beguiler and the bard? I didn't prestige out the bard because I didn't want her to loose the power of bardic knack, is there a better option that doesn't involve getting wizard spells?

[Roguenewb]

If your glass cannon is doing damage it won't shred things too badly.

How about some simpler builds?

[Fyermind]

I guess the complexity is the inner player in me sneaking out.

My fear (and the cause for the complexity) is that Fighter 20, rogue 20, wizard 20, cleric 20 basically ends up wizard 20, cleric 20, waste of space 20, corpse 20 for any encounter that challenges the party as a whole. For levels less than 10 this is probably less of a problem as wizards and clerics still have to try in order to break the game at these levels, but paranoia.

So an attempt at a simple build outline:
Duskblade 20
Warmage 20
Beguiler 20
Dragon Shaman 20
Would that model an adventuring team? Does it leave gaping holes?

[Essence_of_War]

I would try to pick on tier 2-4 classes that are easily do-able straight to 20.

The party you presented:


Duskblade 20
Warmage 20
Beguiler 20
Dragon Shaman 20


Seems a little loose. I might go with something like:

Warblade
Swordsage
Beguiler
Dread Neco

All of these classes are tier 3, they have lots of options, and somethings that they're really good at, but none of them have the raw power to completely overshadow anyone else. You've got a clear primary melee, the swordsage and beguiler can cover the skill-monkeying, while the Dread Necro/Beguiler can cover a pretty diverse swath of casting.

[Fyermind]

I've been specifically avoiding dread necro (I love the class, don't get me wrong) because they have a pair of hydras with them from level 8 on which make them much MUCH more powerful than they ought to be. They also have a lot of save or lose spells, which tell me very little about the difficulty of an encounter I didn't already know from looking at stat blocks.

Could a different caster replace the dread necromancer?
My ideas:
Bard: Inspiration and archery
Warmage: mini-mailman
Dragonfire adept: not technically a caster, but cover mook cleaning, and early debuff (entangling), with a few useful abilities

[GunbladeKnight]

Maybe:
Crusader 20
Swordsage 20
Beguiler 20
TG Oskar's Healer 20: Right here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7396440#post7396440)

You have your:
Big meaty tank/melee
Skill-monkey/striker
Arcane caster/debuffer/control
Healer/buffer

Alternatively you can switch out Beguiler for either Dread Necro or Warmage (possibly even TG Oskar's Warmage), and the Swordsage for Rogue, Ranger, Bard, or even Beguiler as well. Crusader or Warblade works just fine, but I can't really think of anything over the revised healer that would fit that power level.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Beguiler 5/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler 14 should be your default skillmonkey. He brings tons of utility, has a few save-or-lose tricks, and is infinitely useful outside of combat. You can throw on Versatile Spellcaster and possibly a Bloodline feat if necessary to give him early access to higher level spells, but at a cost of using up his spell slots extremely quickly.

For a frontline character I'd probably go with a LN Human Cleric of Zarus 6/ Divine Oracle 4/ Contemplative 10. Get the Strength and War domains starting out, and pick up Oracle, Law, and Desinty via your prestige classes. I'd prioritize Wis, Con, and Str and use the Quick trait. With two flaws he should have Extend, Persist, DMM: Persist, Extra Turning (1st), Extra Turning (3rd), Power Attack (6th), and probably just more feats toward Extra Turning depending on how many spells he wants to persist. Limit him to one Night Stick, but keep in mind there's also the Reliquary Holy Symbol and he can cast Eagle's Splendor before buffing. The Frog God's Fane in Complete Scoundrel should be used to obtain the prerequisite for Divine Oracle.

Between those two characters, you have all four party roles covered. The remaining two characters should be some sort of ranged damage dealer, preferably a caster, and a secondary melee preferably with some sort of crowd control. I'd go with either a Warmage with Reserves of Strength and Quick Recovery, or a Psion (Kineticist) with the standard array of survival tricks (Share Pain: Psicrystal, Vigor shared with psicrystal) for the ranged damage dealer.

The fourth character could be a Powerful Build race Fighter with Dungeoncrasher, Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a), and Physical Prowess (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). Go Fighter 9/ Warblade 10/ Fighter 1 for the final build, because you can still pick up Weapon Supremacy at level 20 with that Fighter bonus feat. Use a spiked chain with Improved Trip, Knock-Down, and Knock-Back, along with Dreadful Wrath (PGtF) and Imperious Command. Between fear effects, thwarting enemies with trip and bull rush AoOs, and general tankiness, it rounds out the party quite well.

[killianh]

The team I usually use for testing a dungeon:

Melee: Swordsage
Skills: Factotum
Glass Cannon: Warmage
Utility\heal: Cleric (taking radiant servant of pelor when available)

[Amphetryon]

Dread Necromancer: Turn Undead/Heal/Util
Wilder: Blaster
Psychic Warrior: Melee
Swordsage: Skillmonkey

[Darth Stabber]

It's not quite what your after, but I can offer up my test team for most of the adventures I write.

Azurin totemistX//ranger1/barbarianX-1

With spirit lion totem variant, focused on getting a boat load of attacks and serves as team tracker.

Dragonborn bardX//crusaderX

Healing, support, buffs (especially DFI), and still a good frontliner.

Grey elf wizardX//rogueX

You may ask why not wizard//factotum, the answer is that it isn't supposed to be super optimized, just good. He provides answers to every thing that isn't healing and beating things senseless.

I just run these three through whatever I am working on, and they provide a good approximation of how I am doing balance wise (the party I am currently dming for is 5 non-gestalt).

[Kuulvheysoon]

Skillmonkey: Incarnate (MoI)
Melee: Warblade (ToB)
Blaster: Psion (XPH)
Support: Spirit Shaman (CD)

Incarnates can make amazing skillmonkeys - if you don't care so much for the chakra binds, a beguiler/incarnate/soulcaster could be interesting.

[docnessuno]

Divine/summoner: Shifter druid
Arcane/gish: Human duskblade
Frontliner: Goliath warblade
Buffer/skillmonkey/blaster: Gnome artificer

[TheTick]

Fighter, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage.

Wait, wrong thread. And I always like Red Mages, anyway.