Help balancing curses (PF)

[Rift_Wolf]

I've been working on various set pieces for my campaign involving some specific curses. I'm unsure about power balance though; there's guidelines, but nothing concrete that I can find in the PRD. Basically, there's an evil conjuror who's developed specific curses (As Bestow Curse) to disable potential servants, offerings, or to aid his minions.

Curse of the Crimson Viper: Burns a bloody scar onto a part of the targets body, shaped like a winding snake with deep festering wounds upon the eyes. While this causes no appreciable damage, no amount of natural or magical healing will remove the wounds or scar. As long as the target bears this mark, they take a -10 to all saves against poisons and poisonous effects (Such as stinking cloud). Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected by this spell.

Curse of the Tempting Maid: Burns a scar onto the targets forehead and chest which no amount of magical healing will remove. As long as the target bears this mark, they take a -10 to will saves against charms and compulsions. Creatures immune to charms and compulsions are unaffected by this spell.

I'll probably come up with more later, but do these look overly powerful? The core rules for curses are -4 to all saves, so imposing very powerful but specific penalties to one save seems relatively okay (Compared to the usual use of bestow curse; 50% chance of losing turns)

[Righteous Doggy]

Well, even if they are specific, creating what looks to be an almost automatic failure is absurdly powerful. I don't see a big problem if its only used for story purposes though, but when I get any no save situation I get PO'd pretty fast.

[Larpus]

Indeed, even as specific onuses, -10 is a big hit, almost an instant failure.

Again, fine from a story-perspective, where only a very lucky few of the party won't be affected, or as a narrative device in that the party knows fully well that there's an evil whatever that uses charms as his main way of attacking and one of the party members was cursed with the Curse of the Tempting Maid, so they now have to race against the clock to get rid of it or maybe end up attacked or having to kill/severely injury their friend.

However, from a "normal punishment" or "random occurrence" with no clear plan behind, it's too much of a hindrance. Example time:

Let's say we have a level 4 Barbarian with 18 Con who ends up bitten by a viper (CR 1/2), which has a poison with a Fort check DC 9, 1 check to save.

Under normal conditions, he's rolling with a +8, so whatever, he's gonna be just fine, no need to even roll the dice.

However, if he's been cursed, he's now rolling at -2, so what was once a definitive success now needs an 11 to pass. That's less than 50% chance to pass due to a single condition which, if it feels random or just "tackled on" will just end up frustrating the player.

And that's considering a Barbarian, a Wizard with 16 Con would be much more screwed rolling at an impressive -6.

I know, that wasn't a particularly threatening example, but it was a simple one to show that without careful use, those numbers are too overly powerful. If you're looking for annoyances that aren't that bad if a bit more specific, maybe a -6 will be a better number (in the examples, the Barbarian now rolls with a +2 and the Wizard with +0, still dangerous, but doesn't feel like a lost bet).

[Hylas]

I'll agree, -6 is much better because a -10 to anything is basically telling the players "too bad, I say this happens to you and you can't do anything about it."

If you don't do it on the characters but on NPCs for story reasons or something then it's not as bad. Like there's a string of assassinations going on and every victim is getting this strange wound and then a week later they're dead.

Oh oh, then as the players investigate, one of the party members also gets a wound!

That's not too bad actually.

*adds to adventure idea notes*

[Wings of Peace]

I know you said you're doing this via Bestow Curse, but if I was in a PF game and somebody busted out a curse that serious against me that wasn't a Witch my first ooc reaction would be "You just wanted an NPC with Witch fluff without the crappy spell list."

[gorfnab]

A list for comparison for 3.5 Bestow Curse


Alternate Uses of Bestow Curse
Players Handbook

–6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).

–4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks.

Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.


Book of Vile Darkness

Target is rendered sterile.

The next person introduced to the target for the first time will hate him or her uncontrollably forever. Even if this curse is removed, the person still hates the victim of the curse, but the victim can improve the person’s attitude normally after the curse is gone.

Each time the target attempts to help a friend or ally, there is a 50% chance the attempt fails and causes the ally to fail at the task.

Target is struck blind and deaf.

Each round in combat, there is a 25% chance that the target will attack the nearest creature rather than choosing an opponent normally.

Every time the victim makes a d20 roll, a roll of 20 counts as a 1.

The victim effectively ages, moving him or her to the beginning of the next age category. See Chapter 6 of the Player’s Handbook for the effects of aging.

At some point within the next week (or whenever it is feasible), thieves are able to steal all monetary wealth the victim has.

Animals refuse to be within 5 feet of the target and do not respond to the target’s commands or requests.

Each time the target meets someone for the first time, there is a 50% chance that the new person will confuse the target with a hated enemy, a well-known criminal, or a raving lunatic.

All creatures of a specific kind (such as orcs, owlbears, or black dragons) are permanently invisible to the sight of the victim (invisibility purge does not help, but see invisibility and true seeing do). The spellcaster chooses the kind of creature.


Dragon Magazine #348

Target takes -8 penalty on all checks made using one skill, such as Climb or Spellcraft.

The target's Str score counts as 10 less (minimum 1) for the purposes of carrrying capacity. This might cause some individuals to suddenly take encumbrance penalties while others collapse under the weight of their own gear.

The target's armor falls into disrepair, halving its hit points and hardness while decreasing the armor bonus it grants by -4 (minimum of 1) and doubling the armor check penalty. This effect shifts to any new armor donned, while the armor removed returns to normal (although any damage it might have taken remains)

The target must carry something designated by the caster or suffer a -5 penalty on all saves. The item can be vague (such as a holy symbol of Vecna) or specific (such as the Helm of King Aramil), but it cannot be something dangerous or deadly for the target to carry (a massive boulder or burning coals). The caster must give the object when casting the spell.

One of the target's limbs ceases to function. A nonfunctional arm cannot hold or wield any item and cannot be used to perform somatic spell components, while a nonfunctional leg prevents the target from walking properly without a crutch (and even then the target can only move at half speed). A nonfunctional wing prevents the target from flying if it uses wings to fly.

The target loses all weapon and armor proficiencies, other than simple weapons, natural weapons, and unarmored strikes. If the target has feats for which the lost proficiencies are prerequisites (such as Weapon Focus), he loses the use of these as well.

The target becomes completely socially inept. He takes -6 penalties on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Sense Motive Checks, on Cha checks to influence someone, and on Disguise checks when attempting to act as someone else.

The target's armor, shield, or one of his weapons (caster's choice) becomes cursed. Its enhancement bonus is reversed and it loses any other special abilities, so a +4 flaming longsword becomes a -4 longsword. If nonmagical, the weapon, shield, or armor instead becomes a -1 weapon, shield or armor.

The target is stricken with cowardice. Each time the character rolls for initiative, he must immediately make a will save (with the same DC as the curse) or become shaken for the duration of the combat. The first time the character takes damage in the combat, he must save again or become shaken for 1d4 rounds (if already shaken, instead treat as panicked for 1d4 rounds)

The target appears to be a different alignment (caster's choice) for the purpose of divination spells and spell-like abilities such as detect evil.

The target's damage reduction, spell resistance, or elemental resistance of one type is reduced by 5, to a minimum of 0.

The target immediately becomes fatigued until he has consumed 1 pint of blood. THereafter, he gains a thirst for blood and normal food and drink no longer nourish him. He awakens fatigued each morning and must drink 1 pint of blood to stave off this fatigue for the day.

Everyone who knows the target no longer recognizes him, except for the caster. Even the target's allies do not recognize him and those who come to know him again forget knowing him each morning.

The target gains a susceptibility to damage from a certain source (caster's choice). All damage taken from this source is increased by 5 points. The source must be either a specific element, such as fire, or weapons made of a specified uncommon material such as mithral, silver, or bone.

The target loses the ability to heal naturally (although he does not lose innate healing abilities such as fast healing or regeneration). In addition, spells of the conjuration (healing) subschool only heal the target for half as much as normal. Such spells that cause damage are unaffected by this curse. For example, a cure light wounds spell cast upon a undead creature is unaffected, while an inflict light wounds spell cast on the same creature would be halved.

The target's sight is reduced to 20ft, even with natural abilities and spells such as darkvision.

The target must roll a Fort save (DC as curse) each time he commits an evil or illegal act to avoid becoming nauseated for 2d4 rounds. Alternatively, the caster may use this curse to affect those commiting acts of kindness and generosity.

The target loses the use of one of his feats. If this feat is a prerequisite for other feats, the target loses the use of those feats as well.

One of the target's minor racial abilities is disabled. Minor abilities include darkvision, low-light vision, racial save bonuses, racial skill bonuses, racial weapon proficiency or familiarity, or stability. The Dm has the final word as to what other racial abilities qualify as minor.

The target immediately becomes fatigued, and henceforth requires 12 hours of sleep each time he rests or else is fatigued for the remainder of the day.

The target becomes a disease carrier. Anyone the target touches or who touches the target must roll a DC 16 Fort save or else contract blinding sickness or cackle fever. The target is immune to the selected disease.

The target has uncontrollable shakes, imposing a -4 penalty on ranged attacks and 20% spell failure chance for spells with somatic components.

The target becomes unable to tell a lie. He may, however, choose to avoid answering a question in order to avoid telling the truth.

The target fear killing and must attempt to deal nonlethal damage whenever possible, taking a penalty of -4 on attack rolls with most weapons to do so.


Alternate Uses of Bestow Greater Curse

Spell Compendium

One ability score is reduced to 1, or two ability scores take –6 penalties (to a minimum score of 1).

–8 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks.

Each turn, the subject has a 25% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.


Book of Vile Darkness

A random friend or family member of the target contracts a disease. If the disease is magically cured or runs its course (regardless of the outcome), another loved one contracts a new disease.

The target’s most powerful and/or cherished item falls apart, becoming forever useless.

Valuable metals (such as platinum, gold, silver, and copper) turn to lead in the target’s possession, even if they are in a bag of holding or stored away from the target. The target’s touch transmutes valuable metals (including coins) into lead as well.

1d4+1 of the target’s loved ones or allies are affected by a curse chosen from the bestow curse list above.

All of the target’s loved ones and allies suddenly despise him and are considered to have unfriendly attitudes. See NPC Attitudes in Chapter 5 of the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide for actions former allies might take.

The target cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, or activate spell completion or spell trigger items.


Dragon Magazine #348

The target loses a class ability, such as spellcasting, sneak attack damage, or barbarian rage. If this class ability is a prerequiste for other abilites or feats, the target loses the use of those feats as well.

The target gains a susceptibility to one energy type (such as fire or electricity) or to weapons made of a specified rare or unusual material (such as adamantine or silver) of the caster's choice. The target takes an additional +50% extra damage from this source. This effect does not stack with any other weaknesses the target might already possess.

The target's alignment gradually moves toward another of the caster's choice. For example, a lawful good paladin might be cursed to become Chaotic Evil, losing access to all of his paladin spells and abilities. There is no immediate effect, but the target must make a Will save each day thereafter or his alignment shifts one step toward the chosen alignment.

The target takes damage equal to the damage he deals to others. Only damage dealt with weapon is affected, not ability damage or spell effects.

One of the target's attack options is lost (such as a dragon's breath weapon or a medusa's petrifying gaze attack.)

The target can no longer sleep soundly, perhaps wracked by nightmares or guilt over past evil deeds (caster's choice). He wakes fatigued each morning and cannot perform tasks that require him to be well-rested, such as a wizard preparing spells.

The target's most powerful or cherished possession (DM's discretion) is drawn by fate to fall into the hands of a hated enemy or rival.

The target is completely unable to use any three skills of the caster's choosing. Knowledge skills must be chosen separately.

Everyone the target sees appears to be undead, their flesh rotting from their bones and their voices reduced to hollow rasps.

All critical threats made against the target automatically confirm without requiring the attacker to reroll.

A noisy spirit haunts the target. Aside from unnerving those around the target, the spirit prevents him from using the Hide or Move Silently abilities, becoming invisible, disguising himself, or otherwise altering his appearance. A manifestation of the curse, the spirit is not actually undead and cannot be turned, rebuked, or destroyed.

All new creatures and NPC's the target encounters treat him with an initial attitude of hostile. Allies and current acquaintances do not change their attitudes toward the target.