Combat classes and Wisdom scores

[skycycle blues]

I'm not asking for build advice. I'm just trying to satisfy a general curiosity. This next paragraph is just context for where my question came from. The real question I'm interested in is this: are there any full BAB base classes that benefit from a high Wisdom score? If not, does anyone have any thoughts as to why that might be?

I started thinking about gestalt one time and wondered what would be best to pair up with a Druid and that's when I realized that as far as I'm aware, there aren't any full BAB classes that really benefit from a high Wisdom score. The closest I can think of are Paladin and Ranger, but more than a 14 for them is essentially overkill. I know there are plenty of classes good at melee that want their Wisdom score high [(Druid, Cleric, PsyWarrior, Swordsage, Monk&Ninja(in theory), probably all full divine casting classes], but I'm particularly wondering about full BAB classes.

Then I realized that both other mental stats have plenty of full BAB classes that really want to have it cranked up, or at least benefit from having a high score.

Charisma:
Paladin
Crusader
Hexblade
Knight

Intelligence:
Warblade
Duskblade
Swashbuckler

So I'm wondering, are there any full BAB base classes that benefit from a high Wisdom score? If not, does anyone have any thoughts as to why that might be?

[Elric VIII]

Well, a Cleric 4/Fighter 1/PrC Paladin 15//Druid 20 would do it. IIRC, if you stack the +0 BAB Cleric level so that it is gained opposite a Druid level that gets +1 BAB, then you will essentially have full BAB. (Actually, I think that works of you just stagger 2 med BAB classes with a dip in full BAB.)

The other option is just Druid 20//Cleric 20. Take DMM and/or persist. You can split your active/passive side between both classes, since they bother have great buffs and good offensive spells as well. Druid can give you lots of natural attacks and Cleric can give you bonuses to hit and damage to simulate full BAB (or just persist/quicken Divine Power). Remember, DMM works on you druid spells, too.


Now, why exactly do you want full BAB? Knowing the reason might help us give more accurate advice.

[Jane_Smith]

Natural spell terror no doubt. Id just go with barbarian/druid, turn into a dire bear, greater rage, laugh ass off as you destroy the world with stoneskin/etc on ontop of all that.

[skycycle blues]

I'm not asking for character advice. I was just giving context for where the question came from. I'm just curious about whether or not such a class exists with full BAB and benefits from a high Wisdom score and if not, why that would be.

[Elric VIII]

I'm not asking for character advice. I was just giving context for where the question came from. I'm just curious about whether or not such a class exists with full BAB and benefits from a high Wisdom score and if not, why that would be.

Okay, I see. Paladin with Serenity (Dragon Compendium) gets to key all of his Cha-based abilities off Wis instead. Pair that with Intuitive Strike or Ordained Champion's capstone and you've got some nice Wis synergy. I can't think of anything else (that doesn't require a spellcaster dip), right now.

[Urpriest]

Paladin with Serenity (Dragon Compendium IIRC) will do it. Maybe Soulborn as well, but, well, Soulborn.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Psychic Warriors and Ardents greet you.

[NamelessNPC]

Well, a Cleric 4/Fighter 1/PrC Paladin 15//Druid 20 would do it. IIRC, if you stack the +0 BAB Cleric level so that it is gained opposite a Druid level that gets +1 BAB, then you will essentially have full BAB. (Actually, I think that works of you just stagger 2 med BAB classes with a dip in full BAB.)

For the record, BAB doesn't work like that in gestalt. Each cleric/druid/rogue/etc level gets you 0.75 BAB, wizard gets you 0.5, fighter gets you 1. Add them all up, rounded down

Regarding the topic, maybe you can be a Psywar 6/Slayer X?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Not sure about base classes, but War Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) fits the bill. Something like Crusader 4/ Sanctified Mind 1/ War Mind 10/ Sanctified Mind 5 gets full BAB, 10th level powers known/powerpoints, and a manifester level of 19 with Practiced Manifester for bonus powerpoints, augmenting, and duration. You'll need to spend your skill points very carefully in those first five levels, and you'll need to be psionic (Hidden Talent probably), but overall it's a fairly solid Tier 3 build. You could swap around those Crusader levels with anything that gets full BAB as long as you'll have enough skill ranks to qualify for everything, and proficiency in all martial weapons.

I went looking for a base class in Dragon Compendium, as I recalled a new class similar to Monk. What I found is the Battle Dancer, an unarmed, unarmored combat class that gets full BAB, but its abilities are keyed off Cha, including an AC bonus. Yep, full BAB and Cha to unarmored AC with Monk Unarmed Strike at 1st level, a great find even though it's not very relevant.

[Elric VIII]

For the record, BAB doesn't work like that in gestalt. Each cleric/druid/rogue/etc level gets you 0.75 BAB, wizard gets you 0.5, fighter gets you 1. Add them all up, rounded down

Regarding the topic, maybe you can be a Psywar 6/Slayer X?

Oh, I didn't know they used partial BAB by default.


Anyway, as for other wisdom classes with full BAB (they are PrCs that don't need dips in lower bab classes):

Battlesmith - Wis to warhammer damage.
Beloved of Valerion - Spellcasting.
Blackguard - Spellcasting.
Champion of Gwynharwyf - Spellcasting.
Consecrated Harrier - Spellcasting.
Holy Liberator - Spellcasting.
Mantis Mercenary - +wis to AC from Dodge feat.
Mortal Hunter - Saves against spells.
Ordained Champion - Replace Str.
Pious Templar - Spellcasting.
Runescarred Berserker - Runescars (scrolls).
Vassal of Bahamat - Spellcasting.


The spellcasting classes are essentially 10-level Paladin variants.

[Eloel]

Oh, I didn't know they used partial BAB by default.

They don't, it's a variant.
Sorcerer 1/Wizard 1 (Level2 character) is 0-BAB all day long, same thing.

[Duke of URL]

So I'm wondering, are there any full BAB base classes that benefit from a high Wisdom score?

Cleric with persisted divine power. Because, you know, it would be absolutely awful for melee classes to actually be good at melee.

Edit: And to those who suggested Psychic Warrior, it's a 3/4 BAB class,

[skycycle blues]

This is really interesting. It looks like the closest thing is the Serenity feat for Paladins and Prestige Classes. Does anybody have any ideas as to why that is? It seems really weird to me that there aren't any base classes.

[Elric VIII]

This is really interesting. It looks like the closest thing is the Serenity feat for Paladins and Prestige Classes. Does anybody have any ideas as to why that is? It seems really weird to me that there aren't any base classes.

Well, to a combat class, wisdom is arguably the best mental ability. Cha is the classic dump stat, they don't need much Int since they're not skill monkeys (aside from the combat expertise prerequisite), and they usually have a poor Will save (probably the most important save). I assume that the general idea is that combat classes already want a decent Wis , and adding extras is just free stuff.