Bestow Power Loop

[ibstudent220]

What is the minimum number of feats required to manifest Bestow Power in order to recover PP? I think I found a method that uses 3, but I'm not sure if that's the most efficient. Here's my setup:

Feats: Linked Power, Metapower(Bestow Power), Metapower(Bestow Power)
Manifest Bestow Power, linked to Bestow Power, targeting yourself with both. The metapsionic cost of Linked Power is 3 PP (since that's what Bestow Power costs), normally, but having 2x Metapower reduces the metapsionic cost to 0. As I understand Linked Power, you don't need to pay the PP again for the power you've linked, so by the beginning of your next turn, you'll have gained 4 PP, at the cost of 3 PP and expending your psionic focus. As long as your Concentration is reasonably high (+18 for 95% success), you can recharge your PP at about 1 per 12 seconds, or 1 per 6 seconds if you have Psionic Meditation.


tl;dr version: Does Linked Power + 2x Metapower(Bestow Power) let you regain PP between battles? Is there a better method to do this?

[Emperor Tippy]

There are plenty of ways to abuse Bestow Power, that's just one of them.

Earth Sense + Earth Power + a Torc of Power Preservation reduces the cost of BP to 1 PP and has it give you 2 PP.

That only takes 2 feats and one item.

[ibstudent220]

Earth Sense + Earth Power + a Torc of Power Preservation reduces the cost of BP to 1 PP and has it give you 2 PP.

That only takes 2 feats and one item.

I forgot about the Torc. You could use it instead of one of the above Metapower feats, to reach the same costs.

Also, what sourcebook(s) are Earth Sense and Earth Power from?

[Cor1]

I'm not sure you can take Metapower two times on the same metapsionic, or the same power.



There are a LOT of recharge methods. All those I know are based on Bestow Power.


Torc of Power Preservation : 36,000gp, it's in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. It reduces the cost of casting any power while you wear by 1 power point.

Combine that with a second reduction of the base price for manifesting Bestow Power, and it recharges.

You can Metapower Linked Power to reduce the cost of the Linked BP by 2, and reduce the price of the metapsionified power with the Torc of Power Preservation by 1. So you get back one psi point for a psionic focus.

You can can take Earth Sense and Earth Power, with a Torc. It reduces casting costs by 1 while you stay psionically focused and standing on earth or unworked stone and not using metapsionics. One Bestow Power costs 1 pp.

You can use Midnight Augmentation from Magic of Incarnum. It's a little complicated : you choose a power at the start of the day, and you invest Essentia into the feat, up to the level of the power. You may expend your psionic focus so that the cost of augmentation of that power is diminished by the quantity of essentia invested. It can't be reduced below 1.
Thing is, nowhere does it say if you reduce the cost of each augmentation, or of all the augmentations you apply to it combined. You can work out the math yourself for when it breaks even, but regaining one pp per round seems pretty easy to me, as long as you invest keep 2 or 3 Essentia invested there.
You also need a second Incarnum feat to have enough essentia. You can generate temporary essentia by expending your psionic focus, with Psycarnum Infusion. That one scales, but eats actions.

The Incarnum pair of feats is the only completely self-sufficient one, and it depends on how you read the feat. If it reduces the cost of every augmentation (minimum 1 each), it's minimum 2 Essentia and thus you need a second Incarnum feat, to get a second Essentia point, or Psycarnum Infusion, which gives max Essentia in one receptacle until the end of your next turn when you use your psionic focus. If it reduces the total cost of augmentation, you need to be able to invest at least 4 Essentia, so you get 6 pp for 5 spent; without Incarnum classes (or a specialized feat), that's character level 18+, and either three more Incarnum feats, or Psycarnum Infusion.

Caveat : Infinite loops are Bad Things. Don't do them.
By level 17, you can also use Affinity Field. Plop an Affinity Field on anyone else, one on yourself, then make sure you are in each other's Affinity Field. Then manifest Bestow Power on the other. It should bounce infinity times between you and the other, recharging you in full.
Fixing the infinite insta-loop lets it still work, too : if it just bounces back once, it's okay, as long as the other can Bestow Power upon you, too. You spend 3pp, bestow 2, get back 2. The other bestows, spends 3, you get 2, he gets 2 back. It effectively creates one pp for each of you and the other psion every round.

That's all I know for self-sufficient recharge.

[TuggyNE]

I believe if you can rejigger your psicrystal's feats (Hidden Talent, etc) so it can manifest Bestow Power itself, you can get a very simple loop going.


Share Bestow Power with your psicrystal, repeating until it has at least 3pp (-1pp each step)
Have your psicrystal manifest it back on you with the pp it has (+2pp each step)


You'll gain a total of 4pp every two cycles at a cost of 3pp, for a total of 1pp net. (Well, really you gain a total of 10pp at a cost of 9pp.)

There are really only two problems with this method: first, some DMs probably don't allow psicrystals to take feats (though they should), or don't allow them to take psionic feats (which is probably more sensible :smalltongue:); second, Bestow Power is probably not intended to be used on yourself, although it doesn't forbid it. And, oh yeah, an infinite loop.

[Cor1]

I believe if you can rejigger your psicrystal's feats (Hidden Talent, etc) so it can manifest Bestow Power itself, you can get a very simple loop going.


Share Bestow Power with your psicrystal, repeating until it has at least 3pp (-1pp each step)
Have your psicrystal manifest it back on you with the pp it has (+2pp each step)


You'll gain a total of 4pp every two cycles at a cost of 3pp, for a total of 1pp net. (Well, really you gain a total of 10pp at a cost of 9pp.)

There are really only two problems with this method: first, some DMs probably don't allow psicrystals to take feats (though they should), or don't allow them to take psionic feats (which is probably more sensible :smalltongue:); second, Bestow Power is probably not intended to be used on yourself, although it doesn't forbid it. And, oh yeah, an infinite loop.

This does not work by RAW, unless Epic. This is why it doesn't work:

Bestow Power is a level 2 power, so you can't take it with Hidden Talent, which only gives powers of level one. So, even if your psicrystal has Practiced Manifester to be able to manifest as a 5th level manifester (which should not apply, per the RAW of Practiced Manifester), it can't take Expanded Knowledge : Bestow Power, because it would have to know a third-level power, too.
So, as per RAW, there's at least three reasons for that combo to not work.

It could work in Epic, because there is the epic feat Psycrystal Power, that gives to your psicrystal a power you know up to 8th level, and enough pp to manifest once a day at your manifester level.

I developed a Psionic Trick to get early access to Epic feats, so you could do that to recharge. But it necessitates level 17, and by that point there's an instantaneous recharge method.

You'll find the thread for Psionic combos and tricks here : http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177889

[TuggyNE]

This does not work by RAW, unless Epic. This is why it doesn't work:

Bestow Power is a level 2 power, so you can't take it with Hidden Talent, which only gives powers of level one. So, even if your psicrystal has Practiced Manifester to be able to manifest as a 5th level manifester (which should not apply, per the RAW of Practiced Manifester), it can't take Expanded Knowledge : Bestow Power, because it would have to know a third-level power, too.
So, as per RAW, there's at least three reasons for that combo to not work.

Good catch, and thanks for the correction.

[Cor1]

Good catch, and thanks for the correction.

You're welcome :smallsmile:


New method (min. 17th lvl) :

Plop on your psicrystal an Extended Affinity Field. Its duration will be at least 38 rounds : ML 17 + 2 (Extend) = 19*2 = 38 rounds. Make it 40.

Extended Affinity Field costs 19pp to manifest, so you need to recoup them. You can do that in 19 rounds, of course. Manifest Bestow Power on yourself, shared with the Psicrystal. As it takes a second-level power's effects, it reflects it back upon you.
This simply, very simply, gives you back four power points for three you spend.

If you have ML boosters, you should be able to manifest at ML 20th by level 17. Overchannel + Ioun Stone + Torc = Overchannel to ML 20 for 1d8 dmg. (With only Overchannel, it's doable, but 5d8 backlash.) So an Extended Affinity Field should net you 21 pp in 40 rounds, without using anything more.

Of course it's more efficient to add a ToPP and one two-feats cost-reducing combo. (Earth Sense+Power isn't compatible with Midnight Augmentation. Earth demands that you don't use a psionic focus to have the manifesting cost reduced, and Midnight requires expending it to reduce the augmentation cost. For this combo, Earth is better because it costs less actions.)

It's also perfectly RAW-legal. You can share to your psicrystal any power you manifest on yourself. You're manifesting Bestow Power on yourself. The psicrystal is then affected by a 2nd-level power's effect, so Affinity Field transfers the effect to everyone in range, including you.

I love how the fluff justifies each method. Earth Power taps the power of natural earth, and you have to stay focused to keep the contact with it. Midnight Augmentation connects you with the flow of souls past, present and future, giving you power from your manipulating the Soulstuff they called Essentia. The Torc is a sort of tech device that makes psionics more efficient. You can't combine Earth and Midnight, because they're totally separate power sources. It's an accident that they're so incompatible by RAW, but it makes so much sense, from an in-game perspective.

[Flickerdart]

A 4th level Wilder Wild Surging for +2 can augment a Bestow Power for just +1. If he manages to sneak a Torc of Power Preservation from someone (or maybe he's just higher level, and wisely multiclassed) he pays 3 PP and gets 4 PP. He runs a 10% chance of losing 4 PP, but over 100 manifestations, he will only lose 40 PP, and gain 100 PP. A 7th level Wilder surging for +3 will actually lose 5% of all PP he spends, making this trick only work for the +2 adjustment, and even then, only for Wilders of 9th level or lower.

Oh Wilders, why must you suck so bad?