About the Thri-Keen

[Snowbluff]

So, I want to do something with this, but 2 HD and +2 LA are really harsh. I heard there is a significantly more useful version somewhere. Where may I find it?

Also, the race seems very nifty (I'm not just talking about the arms). What ways have you guys taken advantage of its traits or those races with similar traits?

[Roguenewb]

There's a book somewhere with the nonpsionic version of the Thri-kreen (MM2 or SavS, or Shining South I think) that only has LA +1 IIRC. The trick to thri-kreen i believe is to get some way of buffing all attacks for the course of a round, like swift action spells, or boosts or something, or precision damage, and go Super two weapon fighting strategies all over the bad guy

[Snowbluff]

There's a book somewhere with the nonpsionic version of the Thri-kreen (MM2 or SavS, or Shining South I think) that only has LA +1 IIRC. The trick to thri-kreen i believe is to get some way of buffing all attacks for the course of a round, like swift action spells, or boosts or something, or precision damage, and go Super two weapon fighting strategies all over the bad guy

Okay, found it in MM2. 2d8 HD, and 3 Chaos Shufflable feats, 2 BaB, 2 good saves, LA +1 is much better. Sort of like 2 levels in fighter, and LA giving some extra arms. It doesn't list the ability adjustment, which is weird. All that and my stats are normal?

[Essence_of_War]

Haha no.

In MM2 you need to work out the ability adjustments for yourself. :smallsmile: I think I worked them out at the "guide to playable races w/ RHD" in my sig.

[Lateral]

The MMII version is 3.0. The only 3.5 nonpsionic version is in Shining South. You basically just lose the PLAs, the bonus PP and one of the LA.

[Snowbluff]

Okay. So here is some ideas.

Thri-Keen, using the Multitasking (SavS), and Playing a Duskblade.

Multitasking will let you you use a wand/round with partial actions while fighting with your other arms. Wand Chambers increase the awesomeness, meaning you never have to swap out wands/weapons. Or you could, since multitasking could let you swap things in/out as you are fighting.

Growing tentacles with Deepspawn, and using Gloves of Man (SavS)is 2 more arms.

Full channeling with your 6 arms with 19 attacks is plain awesome.

[Snowbluff]

Haha no.

In MM2 you need to work out the ability adjustments for yourself. :smallsmile: I think I worked them out at the "guide to playable races w/ RHD" in my sig.

Strangely enough, it's the only material in your sig I have not read. I'll check it out. :smalltongue:


The MMII version is 3.0. The only 3.5 nonpsionic version is in Shining South.

I don't have that book. I'll ask if someone in my group can toss me it tomorrow.

[Doug Lampert]

Okay, found it in MM2. 2d8 HD, and 3 Chaos Shufflable feats, 2 BaB, 2 good saves, LA +1 is much better. Sort of like 2 levels in fighter, and LA giving some extra arms. It doesn't list the ability adjustment, which is weird. All that and my stats are normal?

If no ability adjustments are listed then you follow the proceedure in the SRD under Monsters as Races (it's in the back of the 1st MM).

Basically, the creature is assumed to have rolled all 10 or 11, and you backfigure ability adjustments from that, but there's a separate table that may do better than this for negative adjustments.

[Urpriest]

Okay, found it in MM2. 2d8 HD, and 3 Chaos Shufflable feats, 2 BaB, 2 good saves, LA +1 is much better. Sort of like 2 levels in fighter, and LA giving some extra arms. It doesn't list the ability adjustment, which is weird. All that and my stats are normal?

Alert, Alert, you need to read my Monster Guide, Alert, Alert.

[Lateral]

I don't have that book. I'll ask if someone in my group can toss me it tomorrow.

You don't need to. I've just checked, and literally the only differences are the loss of the PLAs and the PP and the fact that it's only LA +1. Every other thing is exactly the same.

[Snowbluff]

Alert, Alert, you need to read my Monster Guide, Alert, Alert.

Ackth. Okay, okay, I've read it. Too 8ad is stops just short of getting rid of the racial HD. To 8e honest, I can live with the HD and even the LA (Yes, I know the LA Buyoff rules), 8ut you've piqued my interest. Where may I find the Racial HD cheese foretold in the prophecy Handbook?


You don't need to. I've just checked, and literally the only differences are the loss of the PLAs and the PP and the fact that it's only LA +1. Every other thing is exactly the same.

Thanks. So the only difference is I can't ChaShuffle the 2 familiarities. Got it.

[Roguenewb]

If your going full-hog TO with stuff like DCFS, why bother with a race? Just do incredibly insane stuff, and not give a poop about how many arms your race gives?

[Urpriest]

Ackth. Okay, okay, I've read it. Too 8ad is stops just short of getting rid of the racial HD. To 8e honest, I can live with the HD and even the LA (Yes, I know the LA Buyoff rules), 8ut you've piqued my interest. Where may I find the Racial HD cheese foretold in the prophecy Handbook?


It's actually pretty straightforward. If you get negative levels and they turn permanent you will permanently lose levels. You then can level up again, potentially taking a different level than you took before. In particular, since HD are levels, you can lose HD, then take normal class levels instead when you level up again.

[Snowbluff]

If your going full-hog TO with stuff like DCFS, why bother with a race? Just do incredibly insane stuff, and not give a poop about how many arms your race gives?

It's not much of a TO, since a decent zweihander Duskblade can potentially one-round creatures at CR with full channeling regardless. I am simply finding a way to mess with this race's characteristics, as I find it cool and flavorful. DCFS is something the 3.0 Thri-Keen is good at, and it matters significantly less with the 3.5 Thri-Keen.


It's actually pretty straightforward. If you get negative levels and they turn permanent you will permanently lose levels. You then can level up again, potentially taking a different level than you took before. In particular, since HD are levels, you can lose HD, then take normal class levels instead when you level up again.

Hmm... HMMMMMM. I see.

Still, as I said earlier, Monstrous Humanoid isn't that lousy of a Racial HD, so this isn't something I'd try.

[Curmudgeon]

It's actually pretty straightforward. If you get negative levels and they turn permanent you will permanently lose levels. You then can level up again, potentially taking a different level than you took before. In particular, since HD are levels, you can lose HD, then take normal class levels instead when you level up again.
Or your DM could decide that, without the minimum HD stipulated for the creature, you're just dead.

[Snowbluff]

Or your DM could decide that, without the minimum HD stipulated for the creature, you're just dead.

Yeah, I personally would say you lose your levels retroactively, that is to say, your last level you took is gone. Sure, if you survive a Energy Drain at ECL 4 somehow, I'd let it go for 8eing lucky, 8ut at high levels you really can't a8use it this way.

[Darrin]

So, I want to do something with this, but 2 HD and +2 LA are really harsh. I heard there is a significantly more useful version somewhere. Where may I find it?


Diopsid. Dragon Compendium vol. 1.

[Snowbluff]

Diopsid. Dragon Compendium vol. 1.

Hmm. Nice. These will work better for some things. I'd rather have Thri-Keen for somethings though, like builds centered around Combat Reflexes.

[Chronos]

Since you asked what you can use besides the arms, there's also that insane Jump check. If nothing else, you'll want to find some way to pick up the Sudden Leap maneuver from Tome of Battle (either the Martial Study feat, or a dip in Warblade or Swordsage).

[Gavinfoxx]

What's that race that is usually used for speed attempts and such? I think it is a psionic race??

If you want to, you know, simulate that OTHER Thri-keen abilities I mean.

[Snowbluff]

Since you asked what you can use besides the arms, there's also that insane Jump check. If nothing else, you'll want to find some way to pick up the Sudden Leap maneuver from Tome of Battle (either the Martial Study feat, or a dip in Warblade or Swordsage).

Hmm. Yes, this should work nicely. They do lend themselves well to the Tiger Claw school.


What's that race that is usually used for speed attempts and such? I think it is a psionic race??

If you want to, you know, simulate that OTHER Thri-keen abilities I mean.

uhh... Dusklings can invest Essentia yo increase their speed.

[Golden Ladybug]

What's that race that is usually used for speed attempts and such? I think it is a psionic race??

If you want to, you know, simulate that OTHER Thri-keen abilities I mean.

Well my speed build (Yertle the Turtle) used Longstride Shifter, Malachei and a few others suggest Anthromorphic Light Horse, Catfolk are suggested sometimes, anything with the Shadow Template...

So, dunno what maps well with Thri-Kreen but isn't Thri-Kreen. Maybe Snowbluff was right about Dusklings?

[Darrin]

What's that race that is usually used for speed attempts and such? I think it is a psionic race??

Xeph. They get a Burst (Su) ability 3/day.

[Cieyrin]

Thri-Kreen are good for their jumping ability (epic hops before Epic :smallbiggrin:) and work rather well as Totemists with the 5 natural attacks they start with and the additional ones you can add on top. Basically, they can play Prince of Persia (Up the Walls?) while the rest of the party has to traverse the environment fairly normally, Sudden Leap or otherwise. They're also good grapplers (+4 for each pair of arms!) and if you choose to go for one big mucking weapon as opposed to sticking to claws or multiple light weapons, they can use their superior number of arms for +2.5 Str (thanks, Savage Species :smallbiggrin:).

If you stay psionic, the psi-like powers aren't that bad, either. (1/day Greater Concealing Amorpha isn't anything to sneeze at and 3/day Chameleon makes them hard to find if they don't wish to be found). The poison leaves something to be desired (based off of RHD doesn't help the DC at all) but you can't have everything. Free Deflect Arrows also helps their early survivability.

One of my favorite characters was a Thri-Kreen Soulknife/Psion(Nomad) and, despite mechanical flaws, was incredibly fun to play, especially if you open up Oriental Adventures and the ELH for high DC jumping (they aren't so bad at the other Dex-based skills, either).

[Cor1]

I love the Thri-kreen. They're one of the few truly exotic races in all of DnD.

I've been wanting to play one for years... Maybe my next character will be a Thri-Kreen Lord Of Smack with martial maneuvers and Incarnum powers.

Something like Thri-kreen 2 (HD) / Swordsage 2 / PsyWar 2 / Bloodclaw master 2 / Thrallherd 2 / Slayer 10 (or other full-BAB PrC that advances psionics at least 9/10. )

There should be enough slots to fit Inquisitor and Hidden Talent (Mindlink) for Thrallherd, Multiattack for BCM, and Track for Slayer.

The Thrallherd levels are only there to get an Elan Psion (Egoist or Shaper) as Thrall, so that I don't regret not playing a full caster too much.

"My hive lives in peace."

[killem2]

In an upcoming session, I will be a Thri-Keen ranged nut. I currently have four elven thin blades, weapon finesse, for the up in the face stuff, then I have two Bone Bows. Eventually I would love to get to a point where I could sling out multiple hand cross bows as free actions and go into full attack mode.

I was going to use crescent knives but that would have just gotten stupid. :smallbiggrin:

Also if you take the shining south version, and drop the pscion part, its an la+1

[Snowbluff]

Thri-Kreen are good for their jumping ability (epic hops before Epic :smallbiggrin:) and work rather well as Totemists with the 5 natural attacks they start with and the additional ones you can add on top. Basically, they can play Prince of Persia (Up the Walls?) while the rest of the party has to traverse the environment fairly normally, Sudden Leap or otherwise. They're also good grapplers (+4 for each pair of arms!) and if you choose to go for one big mucking weapon as opposed to sticking to claws or multiple light weapons, they can use their superior number of arms for +2.5 Str (thanks, Savage Species :smallbiggrin:).


Hmm... I really need to get a Jump Handbook or something I can take full advantage of this bonus. :3

About Psi, the whole big LA HD thing doesn't mesh in my head with what is effectively a spellcaster. Thou shall not lose caster levels and such, even when it's a rule i don't like myself.


I love the Thri-kreen. They're one of the few truly exotic races in all of DnD.

I've been wanting to play one for years... Maybe my next character will be a Thri-Kreen Lord Of Smack with martial maneuvers and Incarnum powers.

Something like Thri-kreen 2 (HD) / Swordsage 2 / PsyWar 2 / Bloodclaw master 2 / Thrallherd 2 / Slayer 10 (or other full-BAB PrC that advances psionics at least 9/10. )

There should be enough slots to fit Inquisitor and Hidden Talent (Mindlink) for Thrallherd, Multiattack for BCM, and Track for Slayer.

The Thrallherd levels are only there to get an Elan Psion (Egoist or Shaper) as Thrall, so that I don't regret not playing a full caster too much.

"My hive lives in peace."

Yeah, I love the crap out the personality fluff. So awesome. As for King of Smack, a Totemist/Warmind sound good in my mind. I've never tried either class, but it sounds good in my head.

Another option would be doing the Hellfire Clawlock, which could be interesting.

My personal smack build uses Beaststrike, Tashalatora, and Improved Rapidstrike (Applied to your Unarmed Weapons through an Aptitude Amulet). You get you Metamorphosis from Mantled Warrior, get Expansion, and lay down the Hurt with FoB, 16 BaB (Take some Slayer for more BaB), 4 Rapidstrike hits, Snap Kick, for 13 attacks, all dealing Colossal (+ with Imp Natural Attack) Monk Unarmed + Claw Massive Damage Dice.


In an upcoming session, I will be a Thri-Keen ranged nut. I currently have four elven thin blades, weapon finesse, for the up in the face stuff, then I have two Bone Bows. Eventually I would love to get to a point where I could sling out multiple hand cross bows as free actions and go into full attack mode.

I was going to use crescent knives but that would have just gotten stupid. :smallbiggrin:


Hmm, Thri-keen Cleric Archer with Rapid Shot, Zen Archery, variable Str bow or a good house rule, Str Buffs, Splitting Bow, Raptor Arrows, DMM: Persist (And Extra Turning/Nightstick for fixing the lousy Cha Mod), this fits the race perfectly with the Str and Wis bonuses. ^^

By the way, the heck is a Crescent Knife?

[Agent 451]

It's an exotic weapon from Dragon 275. It gives you two simultaneous attack rolls for each attack, and they are resolved separately.

[Cieyrin]

About Psi, the whole big LA HD thing doesn't mesh in my head with what is effectively a spellcaster. Thou shall not lose caster levels and such, even when it's a rule i don't like myself.

You don't generally become a Thri-Kreen to become a pure spell-caster (or manifester, in this case), you want to aim more at a gish type build for personal buffing before laying the smack down, via Warmind or Psychic Warrior.


Another option would be doing the Hellfire Clawlock, which could be interesting.

My only issue with going clawlock on a Thri-Kreen is that Eldritch Claws only adds 2 claws regardless of the number of arms you have, so you can't really Multiweapon Fight with them.

[Snowbluff]

You don't generally become a Thri-Kreen to become a pure spell-caster (or manifester, in this case), you want to aim more at a gish type build for personal buffing before laying the smack down, via Warmind or Psychic Warrior.



My only issue with going clawlock on a Thri-Kreen is that Eldritch Claws only adds 2 claws regardless of the number of arms you have, so you can't really Multiweapon Fight with them.


As for the Clawlock... Multitasking. Shoot 2 Eldritch Blasts/turn, or shoot one at point blank with clawing a guy, or use 2 of your arms for an Invocation.

[Cieyrin]

As for the Clawlock... Multitasking. Shoot 2 Eldritch Blasts/turn, or shoot one at point blank with clawing a guy, or use 2 of your arms for an Invocation.

I answered in the other thread but that Int 17 is painful when you don't otherwise need it.

[Lateral]

As for the Clawlock... Multitasking. Shoot 2 Eldritch Blasts/turn, or shoot one at point blank with clawing a guy, or use 2 of your arms for an Invocation.

It... doesn't work that way. Not even a little. Extra arms ≠ extra actions.

[Cieyrin]

It... doesn't work that way. Not even a little. Extra arms ≠ extra actions.

He's talking about the Multitasking feat from Savage Species. For each pair of arms, you get a standard action.

[Snowbluff]

I answered in the other thread but that Int 17 is painful when you don't otherwise need it.

Yeah, rolling up the extra int is painful. A Duskblade is good for this, since they need Int, so you should be picking up an Int item any way. Not great, but the TKs get good strength and some Dex to make up for it. :smalltongue:

I've been thinking about doing an AoO build with the Thri-Kreen. Make some use of dat dex.