Summoners

[Omegas]

Looking for a book reference.

Where is it written that you can only have one active summon creature spell or natural ally spell at a time?

[Gavinfoxx]

It isn't, at least not in wotc sources. Several D&D video games used that rule, though?

[Yawgmoth]

It's not an official rule, it's someone's houserule that they stuck on (I think) dandwiki.

[Rubik]

Not for spells, but for psionics. Apparently someone at WotC thought that the best way to curb wilders creating incredibly powerful single astral constructs was to force them to only have one at a time.

...yeah, this makes no sense to me, either.

[Gavinfoxx]

Ah it was one of the Complete Psionics nerfs then??

[Omegas]

So literally someone could cast Summon (twice with feats) every round and choose the multiple creature option per summon until they filled a game board?:smallconfused:

That seems abusive even by Mage standards.

[Rubik]

So literally someone could cast Summon (twice with feats) every round and choose the multiple creature option per summon until they filled a game board?:smallconfused:

That seems abusive even by Mage standards.That's nowhere near as abusive as the rules allow. Most summons only last 1 round/lvl. Gate is Instantaneous, and if you Gate in a titan or solar it can Gate in another titan or solar in the same turn, which can also Gate in another titan or solar. Basically you have nigh infinite titans or solars by the end of your turn, and they all have to do what you tell them to do (since each one has to do what the creature that Gated them in tells them to, and ultimately you're the one that Gated in the first one).

And that's using one Core-only spell and one of two Core-only monsters.

[Gurgeh]

Given that the Summon Monster spells have a casting time of one round, you could only cast more than once in one "round" by the use of a Time Stop spell or something similar.

[Hiro Protagonest]

So literally someone could cast Summon (twice with feats) every round and choose the multiple creature option per summon until they filled a game board?:smallconfused:

That seems abusive even by Mage standards.

What, you thought summoners "bogging down combat" meant there were a bunch of them all summoning one creature each?

Feh. That's not abusive. Just use Planar Binding, apologize to the celestial for not having Planar Ally (eventually they'll get fed up and petition the deities to make it an arcane spell), ask him to help you take out the creatures in the Evil Dungeon of Evil, rinse and repeat until you have a personal guard of hound archons plus a strike force of lantern archons. Then, there's Transmute Rock to Mud + Transmute Mud to Rock in a standard or rocky environment. Then, there's Transmute Rock to Lava if you're feeling particularly mean.

[Roguenewb]

You can have as many as you can find to grab. I've seen one caster get like 40 some-odd little crudy monsters out just to block the attack of a golem so they could range attack it to death.

[Omegas]

What, you thought summoners "bogging down combat" meant there were a bunch of them all summoning one creature each?

Not at all. I knew the answer was spell duration vs casting time as the only official limit. I just wanted to hear it from the crowed so I could prove my point to a friend.

Though I am leery on the gate issue. I thought any called or summoned creature lost the ability to call or summon creatures while under the effects of a call or summon spell.

[Rubik]

Though I am leery on the gate issue. I thought any called or summoned creature lost the ability to call or summon creatures while under the effects of a call or summon spell.Summoned yes. Called no.

[lightningcat]

Not at all. I knew the answer was spell duration vs casting time as the only official limit. I just wanted to hear it from the crowed so I could prove my point to a friend.

Though I am leery on the gate issue. I thought any called or summoned creature lost the ability to call or summon creatures while under the effects of a call or summon spell.

But using gate to call a creature, gets you a single service before it goes home. Getting it to gate another creature would count as that service in my opinion, so it would leave, so the wonderful gate trick does not work.


Gate
Calling Creatures

A controlled creature can be commanded to perform a service for you. Such services fall into two categories: immediate tasks and contractual service. Fighting for you in a single battle or taking any other actions that can be accomplished within 1 round per caster level counts as an immediate task; you need not make any agreement or pay any reward for the creature’s help. The creature departs at the end of the spell.


And if you want it to help you fight, then it would have no reason to call for help. And if it calls for another, then it has no compulsion to stay, it's task is completed.

Unless, of course, I'm completely misunderstanding something.

[Heatwizard]

Given that the Summon Monster spells have a casting time of one round, you could only cast more than once in one "round" by the use of a Time Stop spell or something similar.

Not if you take the specialist ACF that makes it a standard action. Or Rapid Spell.

[TuggyNE]

But using gate to call a creature, gets you a single service before it goes home. Getting it to gate another creature would count as that service in my opinion, so it would leave, so the wonderful gate trick does not work.

The description of the spell says one round per caster level in the quoted section, and mentions multiple actions counting as a single immediate task. While your interpretation is ingenious, and probably common among lower-op DMs, I am not convinced it is actually RAW, or even RAI*.

(Note that I would probably solve this problem with a gentleman's agreement, or failing that, a full rewrite of gate.)


*Sometimes, I believe the designers intended something that they really shouldn't have.