[Pathfinder] Looking for help with a newb building a Social Bard

[Ripplez]

hi. i am new to pathfinder and tabletop rpgs in general, this is my second character im looking to build (the first was a human wizard who got extensive help from the dm and a fellow player). i want to build a bard who has very high social skills to the exclusion of any real combat prowess (just enough to get by to some degree). instead the bard tries to diplomatise, bluff and intimidate her way through the campaign, convincing warriors to drop their swords against her party, convincing rogues to give back the loot they stole and say sorry ma'am. to see the wizard who wanted to destroy you into nothingness and make a diplomacy check and suddenly he sees your side of thing. another bluff roll and hes now joined your cause. another roll and hes your sworn ally for life

another way of thinking about it would be the fallout games, the end boss of fallout 1 and 3 for comparison; how simply through talking and rhetoric and logical arguments you can bring people to their knees. this character should work based off of their social skills to find allies, defeat enemies by making them surrender or join your side or simply leave you alone. and you amass more and more power through the contacts youve made and the gold youve "asked" people to hand over until you reach this stage : http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html
where you basicly convince sauron to drop the ring into the fires of hell to save you the trouble.

sorry for going on about the fluff but i felt i pictured this character in a specific way but dont have the know-how both about character building and about social skills at higher levels to make it a reality. i picture the character as being a halfling or gnome or some other small race. can be hyper and excited in some situations, can be relaxed and chill, sitting back with a hat pulled over her eyes to be all cool.

the main way the character wins challenges is through social skills, even in combat. if its not possible to use some of these in combat, then before combat actually erupts. by convincing one of an enemy party or so to fight for you instead, you can have some impact still on fights. it also opens up fun rping opportunities


one of the main reasons i chose the bard is for bardic knowledge. i feel if exploited correctly, this skill opens up incredible options for the social bard because you can start to divine all sorts of incredibly useful information. yes, that person has had an affair with the blacksmith, bluff with a lower dc due to blackmail? no that person doesnt have any connection to the assassins guild leave him alone. yes the guild does meet in ten minutes, bring your own scones.

it feels like properly exploited bardic knowledge basicly functions as near-omniscience and such a thing helps the social bard INCREDIBLY. so ive been looking for ways to maximise on this

my dm is fairly generous especially since most of us havent played or played recently and he has alot of extra books to use. i dont want to use too exotic races though because pulling a deva out of the air to come do a level 1 mission seems abit overkill. but im open to ideas

to show ive actually done some work - ive looked into gnome/half elf for the race with possible the knack ability the half elf gets for +4 to skill checks (but i highly prefer a small race for the fluff so this is actually on the backburner). ive been looking at taking the fortunes friend prestige class from complete scoundrel at level 12 after i get my second loremaster use because the fortune friends luck based feats allow you to reroll skill checks several times. however at level 11 it feels abit too late to make most of the impact. i want to avoid leadership because i feel the character should be able to induct people into being in her army as opposed to getting cohorts for a feat and losing the manipulative methods that feat couldve represented.

i would really appreciate any help at all and sorry for being so demanding. it feels like a very fun way to play but seems abit beyond my current reach building-wise. thanks for reading the wall of text :)

[Larpus]

Well, I'm not very knowledged in Bards or social characters for that matter, but I can attest that most (if not all) of their strength comes from roleplay and things you can say to convince/confuse others into agreeing with you.

Yeah, there's a mechanic involved, but usually DMs give points, bonuses or bypass it if you're clever enough.

Bardic Knowledge can be used as that I guess, don't see anything too wrong, especially if coming from a character who has sacrifice his combat ability for this and on a group that actually enjoys to partake into social interaction or enjoys to watch it (in case they can't participate). The bonus does take a bit to kick in after the first few levels, so some investment in the most social Knowledges might be a good idea with this concept.

But do check with your DM if that interpretation is valid if you haven't already.

Given the Bard's spells and song effects, it's easy to be at least beneficial in combat, just be creative, such as making a Silent Image of a wall between your group and ranged attackers who will have one hell of a time to shoot through it (or even won't be able to shoot depending on DM interpretation), giving your group breathing room for preparations.

Also make sure to check the archetypes, some of which can be quite an addition to your concept and/or character power, Archaeologist sounds nice if you really want to stay out of combat but cover the group out of it (in this case, by trapfinding); Archvist sounds nice for being more focused on knowledge and skills, which seems to be what you're going for; Court Bard plays more on the whole social, blackmail and mockery side of things, though I'm uncertain how his songs compare to a regular Bard's.

I did just a quick search, so a more in depth analysis of the archetypes might reveal other viable options, check even the ones that do trade Bardic Knowledge because sometimes it's just a change in the ability (such as the Court Bard) or might replace it with something equally worthy to you.

Also, before rolling with the concept, make sure to check with other players their characters, mainly because you might end up so detached from the rest (nearly useless in combat, absolute main focus on any social interaction scene) that it might not be fun for everyone if played to such an extreme.

EDIT: Found an useful link to Treantmonk's Guide to Bards (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2) in case you haven't read it already.

If memory serves me right, it doesn't dwell too much in the social Bard since it's usually not the focus of adventures, but will help you get started with spell selection (much more vital to Bards than it is to Wizards) and ways to be effective in combat (just seek ways that do not clash with your concept or build).

[Ripplez]

my DM has allowed the version ive stated.

im looking actually to try and maximise my bluff intimidate diplomacy and possibly sense motive so that even in battle i can try and use those skills as my main combat options alongside my spells and songs rather than doing much damage

[Larpus]

Don't remember there being any penalty associated in using these skills in battle, so all you gotta do is pump them as high as you go and use your spells to affect the conditions so you gain bonuses.

The hardest part will most probably make the enemy listen and pay attention to you, though that is fairly easy if the battle hasn't yet gone medieval.

EDIT: As I mentioned in my first post, as a Bard your greatest weapon is your creativity, regardless of which tools you have to make use of it.