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View Full Version : Charger gets AoO Grappled. What comes next



Incriptus
2012-05-02, 02:11 PM
Lets say a Stupid Bear decides to charge a Giant Croc. The Croc has reach on the bear and gets his successful attack of oppertunity. The Croc has Improved Grab an is successful.

The bears charge is clearly interupted due to the AoO, what comes next? Do you simply end the bears turn at that?

Soranar
2012-05-02, 02:40 PM
The bears' action is cancelled by the croc's since he's grappled at that point.

Next turn is the croc's, then the bear can try to break free from the grapple.

Diarmuid
2012-05-02, 02:54 PM
I could almost see an interpretation of Charge that would still allow the Bear an attack if it had move 10' before being grappled. That attack could be used to attack, or to break the grapple, or any of the other "while you're grappled" options that might be available to him.

I would probably just end the bear's turn, similarly as if he'd been tripped mid charge, but just saying I could see someone making the above case and it having some amount of merit.

Telonius
2012-05-02, 03:17 PM
The wording of Improved Grab says that you pull the opponent into your space. The wording of Charge says that if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature, you can't charge.

Improved Grab effectively changed Bear's movement so that the conditions of Charge are no longer fulfilled. (His ending space is now occupied by Croc). Bear has already taken a full-round action, so unless Bear has some sort of Free or Immediate action available, Bear's turn is over.

ericgrau
2012-05-02, 03:51 PM
This would be simpler if he was trying to move and attack, because he'd still have a standard action left which he could use to try to escape from the grapple, attack while within the grapple, or whatever else.

A charge is more complicated. It says you may attack after you move, and you did just finish the movement part. So IMO the charger would be able to make an attack. Grappling restricts that attack to an unarmed strike, natural attack or light weapon and gives it a -4 penalty. He could do things besides damage that are attacks, such as disarming. But not standard actions or move actions. What gets even more hairy are grapple actions that the rules say could be done "in place of making an attack". One of those is escape from grapple. I'm not sure whether or not that would be allowed. IMO it looks like it should. So you charge, your get grappled mid-charge, then use your charge attack to try to escape from the grapple.

Ya there is the issue that being grappled should count as "hindering your movement" for the purposes of the charge. That would make all of the above moot. But being right in front of someone when you attack on a charge would also prevent you from moving further forward and that doesn't count as hindering. So if you attack immediately and don't attempt to move further once grappled, I dunno.

Curmudgeon
2012-05-02, 03:52 PM
Improved Grab effectively changed Bear's movement so that the conditions of Charge are no longer fulfilled. (His ending space is now occupied by Croc). Bear has already taken a full-round action, so unless Bear has some sort of Free or Immediate action available, Bear's turn is over.
The highlighted part is not correct. Since Croc has made it impossible, in the end Bear definitely didn't use the charge special full-round action. Instead, Bear has only done some movement. Now, since that wasn't a charge, it's got to be some other action. If the distance moved was more than Bear's speed, it's probably a double move and Bear's turn would indeed be done. But if the distance moved before Croc interrupted was Bear's speed or less, Bear probably still has a standard action available.

Remember, declared intentions rarely have any teeth in the D&D rules. Actions are what they are, not necessarily what the character originally had in mind.

Telonius
2012-05-02, 04:04 PM
The highlighted part is not correct. Since Croc has made it impossible, in the end Bear definitely didn't use the charge special full-round action. Instead, Bear has only done some movement. Now, since that wasn't a charge, it's got to be some other action. If the distance moved was more than Bear's speed, it's probably a double move and Bear's turn would indeed be done. But if the distance moved before Croc interrupted was Bear's speed or less, Bear probably still has a standard action available.

Remember, declared intentions rarely have any teeth in the D&D rules. Actions are what they are, not necessarily what the character originally had in mind.

So when the Croc took his AoO on the Bear, did the Bear take the -2 penalty to AC from charging? If it were a (EDIT: Regular or double) move, that penalty wouldn't have applied.

(Further edit) Depending on how close the roll result was to Bear's AC, you could get into a paradox there. If it were a charge (with penalties applying), the AoO would have hit, resulting in him being AoO'd and interrupting the charge, making the action actually a move. But if it were a move, the AoO wouldn't have hit in the first place, since the penalty wouldn't apply...

Curmudgeon
2012-05-02, 05:16 PM
So when the Croc took his AoO on the Bear, did the Bear take the -2 penalty to AC from charging? I would hope not.

Attacking on a Charge

After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn. The -2 penalty to AC is specified starting after moving and beginning at the same time the attack bonus applies. There's no paradox here.