Incantatrix AND Dweomerkeeper or just Incantatrix?

[Yuukale]

I'm wondering here what would be cheesier:

Conjurer 1/ C.Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 2/ Incantatrix 3/ Dweomerkeeper 10/ x1 (one bonus metamagic with incantatrix 4? achmage spell shaping?)

(cleric 3 for Initiate of Mystra; precocious apprentice to qualify for theurge)

OR

Conjurer 5/Incantatrix 10/Master Conjurer 1/Olin Gisir 1/Archmage 3

I'd like to hear your opinions on those builds =)

[Malachei]

Incantatrix 3 is the sweet spot.

[Chronos]

The Dweomerkeeper build needs those cleric levels that don't really seem to be doing much for you besides qualifying you for Dweomerkeeper. Three levels that don't advance your primary spellcasting is an awfully steep price to pay to qualify for a PrC, even a very strong PrC.

OK, it's also giving you access to Initiate of Mystra, but that's only situationally useful, and it'll be a long time before you can consistently make the checks to actually use that.

Both of those options are great if you can qualify with only one casting class (say, a cleric with the Spell domain), but trying to theurge it isn't worth it.

[Yuukale]

Conjurer 3 / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Dweomerkeeper 10 / Incantatrix 3/ xxx 3
would be better? (order would be: dweomer 2/inc 3/dweomer 10)

This one lacks initiate but I believe it packs a heavier punch than another combination.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you're going to use Dweomerkeeper, you need to do so without multiclassing. Missing out on spellcasting levels is not worth it.

I'd go something like Conjurer 5/ Incantatrix 10/ Halruaan Elder 5, and use Simulacra to power your circle magic.

[Yuukale]

I know that "thou shalt not lose caster levels" but... it's just 1, does it hurt that much? you'll get 9th level spells a level later, but isn't it worth it (the dweomerkeeper abilities in an incantatrix?)

[Tamer Leon]

Could blow a feat on Practiced Caster, if you don't want to lose caster levels.

I think it raises your CL by 4, up to a maximum of your total HD.

[Malachei]

I know that "thou shalt not lose caster levels" but... it's just 1, does it hurt that much? you'll get 9th level spells a level later, but isn't it worth it (the dweomerkeeper abilities in an incantatrix?)

I think it is worth it, absolutely. Mantle of Spells, plus Supernatural Spell, plus the capstone are a wonderful package.

[Urpriest]

Could blow a feat on Practiced Caster, if you don't want to lose caster levels.

I think it raises your CL by 4, up to a maximum of your total HD.

That's explicitly not what they're talking about.

[Chronos]

Practiced Spellcaster raises your caster level, which determines things like the range and duration of most spells, and how many d6 you throw in a fireball. It does not, however, do anything for determining what spells you have access to, or how many of them: For that, you pretty much need actual levels in the spellcasting class, or prestige classes that progress it.

[Yuukale]

I think it is worth it, absolutely. Mantle of Spells, plus Supernatural Spell, plus the capstone are a wonderful package.

Though I must say that snatch spell leaves me slightly torn.

Btw, is Initiate of Mystra THAT powerful or there are other ways to circumvent AMFs and Dead Magic Zones ?
(Io7V's last veil doesn't count since there's no room in any of the builds I proposed here, not without giving up on Dweomerkeeper).


Btw, do you have suggestions on which spells to put in a mantle?

[Demon of Death]

Btw, is Initiate of Mystra THAT powerful or there are other ways to circumvent AMFs and Dead Magic Zones ?
(Io7V's last veil doesn't count since there's no room in any of the builds I proposed here, not without giving up on Dweomerkeeper).

There's a Handbook for that (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10104).

Also, if you don't want/need Initiate of Mystra you can qualify for Dweomerkeeper with a Planar Touchstone, choosing Catalogues of Enlightenment, then choosing the Magic Domain.

[Yuukale]

There's a Handbook for that (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10104).

Also, if you don't want/need Initiate of Mystra you can qualify for Dweomerkeeper with a Planar Touchstone, choosing Catalogues of Enlightenment, then choosing the Magic Domain.

hmmm... the tinfoil hat trick is awesome and really simple!

btw, I didn't know about the planar touchstone thing. One hell of a trick, though I fear that it's too complicated (and perhaps cheesy) to the particular (noob to 3.5) DM I'm playing under xD ~

anyway, I really loved this trick, but I must ask: is it necessary that I burn a feat on it? All I have to do is simply not burn the higher ability uses, right? and if I do, recharge ASAP, right?

[Chronos]

You can't get any benefit at all from a planar touchstone without the feat. And if you have the feat and attune, then burning through the higher ability uses doesn't do anything but remove access to those abilities (until you re-attune): You still keep the base ability.

[Malachei]

Though I must say that snatch spell leaves me slightly torn.

Snatch Spell is nice, but it is by far not the most important class feature of the Incantatrix (that one comes at level 3).


Btw, is Initiate of Mystra THAT powerful or there are other ways to circumvent AMFs and Dead Magic Zones ?


Invoke Magic




Btw, do you have suggestions on which spells to put in a mantle?


I once had a Dweomerkeeper. IIRC, the build was Cloistered Cleric 1 / Wizard 3 / Master Specialist 1 / Dewomerkeeper 10 / Incantatrix 3 / Archmage 2

I think the Mantle of Spells was: Alter Fortune (DWK 1st, at arcane caster level 5), Wall of Force (DWK 3rd, at 10), Greater Dispel Magic (DWK 5th, at 12), Limited Wish or Maze (DWK 7th, at 15), Time Stop (DWK 9th, at 17)