3.5e How to get 50 or more charisma at lvl 5?

[AscendantJim]

I would quite like to know if this is possible: I want to have 50 or more charisma at level 5 with no more than 4 lvl adjustment. Thanks in advance!:thog:

[Tamer Leon]

Simple, really.

You ask a Deity to Alter Reality you up an item of +Yes Charisma.

Or be Pun-Pun, and do it yourself.

[moritheil]

I think I've seen a 32 point buy with multiple templates taken to the +30s in Charisma, but I don't think I've ever seen it taken to +50. Some kind of Draconic, Magic-blooded, half-fey, half-succubus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) might come close.

[Tamer Leon]

Not with only +4 LA it wouldn't.

[Morph Bark]

Do you want TO or PO? TO is easy. PO less so.

18 base.
+3 venerable = 21.
+2 Unseelie Fey = 23.
+2 Magic-Blooded = 25.
+2 Star Elf or Lesser Aasimar = 27.
+2 Draconic (LA+1) and +4 Phrenic or Half-Fey (both LA+2), or +6 from Obah-Blessed (LA+3) = 33.

If you take Draconic and Obah-Blessed together, or bother Phrenic and Half-Fey, that gets you up to 35. With +1 from levels, you get to 36. So no, by level 5, you will not have 50+ Charisma.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Cha +2, +0 LA - Lesser Aasmiar (PGtF) or Spellscale (RotD)

Cha +2, +0 LA - Magic-Blooded template (Dragon 306)
Cha +2, +0 LA - Unseelie Fey template (Dragon Compendium)

Cha +16, +4 LA - Variant Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) assuming you find a base fiend whose only ability score above 11 is Cha.

Starting with 18, +3 for Venerable age, and monty-hauling a +1 Inherent and a +6 Enhancement, you've got a Cha score of exactly 50.

[Dr.Orpheus]

Get as high wis and cha as you can, get high ranks in lucid dreaming and UMD, take a loan, buy a scroll of Dreamscape, become a temporary Planer Shepard, dream yourself as a great wyrm prismatic dragon, go back to the material plane, use your new cha of 64 to convince whoever loaned you money to forget your debt, or kill him.

[Tulya]

Cha +2, +0 LA - Lesser Aasmiar (PGtF) or Spellscale (RotD)

Cha +2, +0 LA - Magic-Blooded template (Dragon 306)
Cha +2, +0 LA - Unseelie Fey template (Dragon Compendium)

Cha +16, +4 LA - Variant Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) assuming you find a base fiend whose only ability score above 11 is Cha.

Starting with 18, +3 for Venerable age, and monty-hauling a +1 Inherent and a +6 Enhancement, you've got a Cha score of exactly 50.

If you don't need 50 cha constantly, and you're not restricted by percent of wealth-by-level per individual item, Tome of Leadership and Influence +1 and Ability Enhancered (+2 to ability bonuses from Transmutation spells) Eagle's Grace?


I could have sworn there was some obscure LA 0 gnome subrace with +2 charisma, but I can't find it. If so, you could trade lesser aasimar for that, grab the racial paragon class for an extra +2, and dump your ECL 9 wealth-by-level into a +6 charisma item.

Edit: Wait, did you mean ECL 5 with no more than +4 LA, or ECL 9 with 5 HD and no more than +4 LA?

[Taelas]

Cha +2, +0 LA - Lesser Aasmiar (PGtF) or Spellscale (RotD)

Cha +2, +0 LA - Magic-Blooded template (Dragon 306)
Cha +2, +0 LA - Unseelie Fey template (Dragon Compendium)

Cha +16, +4 LA - Variant Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a) assuming you find a base fiend whose only ability score above 11 is Cha.

Starting with 18, +3 for Venerable age, and monty-hauling a +1 Inherent and a +6 Enhancement, you've got a Cha score of exactly 50.

There aren't any fiends whose only ability score above 11 is Cha, and Variant Half-Fiend specifies that a single ability modifier shouldn't be higher than +8 in any case. So no, this doesn't work.

[togapika]

Why do you need 50 charisma at level 5?

[Occasional Sage]

Another good question is: why?

[Chronos]

Alternately, you could get your Cha up to 30, and take a level in Marshal for the Motivate Charisma aura, to get the same total bonus to your Cha-based skill and ability checks.

[Spuddles]

Use old blood to count as a construct; apply incarnate construct for 2 more LA.

[Piggy Knowles]

I could have sworn there was some obscure LA 0 gnome subrace with +2 charisma, but I can't find it.

I'm running off a vague memory (it has been a long time since I've actually flipped through the book, instead of just using the SRD), but I'm pretty sure that in one of the tables in the DMG, the Forest Gnome was listed as giving +2 Cha. However, this isn't reflected in the actual entry.

[Morph Bark]

Use old blood to count as a construct; apply incarnate construct for 2 more LA.

Old blood? :smallconfused:

[Taelas]

I'm running off a vague memory (it has been a long time since I've actually flipped through the book, instead of just using the SRD), but I'm pretty sure that in one of the tables in the DMG, the Forest Gnome was listed as giving +2 Cha. However, this isn't reflected in the actual entry.

That's correct. Page 137, under "NPC Adjustments", the entry for "Gnome, Forest" says "-2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha".

[Slipperychicken]

Why do you need 50 charisma at level 5?

This is an excellent question. What are you trying to do with that much Cha at that low level?

[Callista]

Another good question is: why?Yeah. I can't think of a reason you would want that much charisma at level five in any campaign in the real world.

Now, if you're trying to solve a theoretical optimization puzzle, sure--have fun. But 50 charisma in a real game? You can do all the non-broken things you might want to do at level 5 with an 18 or at most a 20.

[Axier]

Man, I wish this was INT you were going for, because 30 INT at level 1 is fairly easy...

[prufock]

18 base
+8 Petal (MM3, LA +2)
+2 Unseelie Fey
+2 Magic-Blooded
+3 venerable
+4 Phrenic (LA +2)
+1 stat boost at level 4
+4 Eagle's Splendor
+8 Nixie's Grace (+10 if Ability Enhancer feat applies) 160 mins
+4 Snowsong 160 mins
+4 Inner Beauty 100 mins
+4 Charm domain (Cleric 1) 1 min

Up to 37 permanent, 57 or 59 temporarily with Eagle's Splendor spells and domain powers. You'll only have 1 class level though. You need Cleric 1 to get the domain ability, but even without it you're well over 50 temporarily. Otherwise, make your class level Marshal with Motivate Charisma for added fun.

The UMD checks to cast from the scrolls should be possible with your progressively improving charisma bonus - and you can bridge with an Eagle's Splendor scroll if necessary. A 37 is a +13, with 4 ranks is +17. Eagle's Splendor requires UMD DC 26, but improves your bonus to +19 (or +20 if Ability Enhancer applies). Next step should be Inner Beauty, which requires a 30, and grants another +2 to the check (+22). The 6th-level bard spells are the hardest, DC 36. If you forego Cleric and take Marshal with Motivate Charisma instead, you can meet these no sweat.

Edited to expand with new sources of temporary cha boost.

[Flickerdart]

18 base
+8 Petal (MM3, LA +2)
+2 Unseelie Fey
+2 Magic-Blooded
+3 venerable
+4 Phrenic (LA +2)
+1 stat boost at level 4
+4 Eagle's Splendor

Up to 38 permanent, 42 temporarily with Eagle's Splendor. You'll only have 1 class level though. Make your class level Marshal with Motivate Charisma for added fun.
You wouldn't get the stat boost, since you are a level 1 character. You'll need 4 real HD first.

[prufock]

You wouldn't get the stat boost, since you are a level 4 character. You'll need 4 real HD first.

Actually the character level is only 1, since there are two +2 level adjustments. But your point stands: stat boosts are based on character level, not effective character level.

EDIT: Another temp source that seems to be untyped, which is fantastic, is to take cleric 1 with the Charm domain for +4 for 1 minute once per day. That brings my temp total up to 45.

If Flaws are on the table, take the feats Spell Focus (transmutation) and Ability Enhancer from Dragon 325, which adds 2 to the enhancement bonus granted by any spell. I'm not sure if this applies to spells cast from scrolls or not, but if it does, that makes your Eagle's Splendor bonus +6 instead of +4. That brings the temp total up to 47.

With wealth for an ECL 5 character, you could get a bunch of scrolls of Eagle's Splendor (150 gp). Alternatively or additionally, you could afford scrolls of Inner Beauty (+4 sacred cha, 1000 gp, 10 mins/lvl, 100 mins), Snowsong (+4 morale cha, 2400 gp, 10 mins/lvl, 160 mins), or Nixie's Grace (+8 enhancement cha, +10 if Ability Enhancer applies, 2400 gp, 10 mins/lvl, 160 mins).

So it's quite possible to get charisma up to or even above 50 at ECL 5, at least temporarily, though it can cost a good chunk of your wealth.

[Flickerdart]

That's what I meant, level 1. Derp.

[Chronos]

Quoth Axier:
Man, I wish this was INT you were going for, because 30 INT at level 1 is fairly easy...How?