GM Advice: No Healer in the Party

[joca4christ]

Running Shackled City using Pathfinder rules. I currently have three players (a barbarian, a rogue, and a wizard) and the possibility of three more folks joining us. Last session, I ran a healbot cleric with the party, but if we have enough folks to round out the party, I'd prefer not to do so.

In the event that none of the new additions want to play a healer, what are some options I have to work around this problem besides running the healbot myself?

Thanks!

[prufock]

Wands. You (or the rogue) don't need to be a dedicated healer, but some ranks in UMD can provide emergency and out-of-combat healing.

Preventing damage in the first place is also a good tactic. Play some sort of buffer to increase attack, damage, AC, saves, damage reduction, miss chance, fast healing. Bard, marshal, dragon shaman come to mind, but full casters also get good protection spells.

Potions, of course. Get a few for yourself.

[Empedocles]

Take the draconic aura feat (from Dragon Magic) and select the dragon shaman's healing aura. That lets you get everyone back up to half HP without expending any resources whatsoever (except that feat). That'll let you conserve things like potions and wands (which you'll be using a lot of).

Class Suggestions: Warlock (amazing UMD capabilities, fun to play), Alchemist (PF but absolutely no conversion, power, or compatibility issues and among the coolest classes ever IMHO), a binder, or a totemist.

Those would all contribute excellently to the party without stepping on anyones toes (except for a warlock, if the wizard is a blaster).

[deuxhero]

Aside from potions, post 2 is right.

If any of the 3 play something with Cure Light Wounds on the class list (Bard, Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, Oracle, Inquisitor, Druid, Witch and Alchemist all get it), they can get a wand without issue. Any UMDer (The Rogue as well as any Summoner, Sorcerer or even a Dangerously Curious Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger/Cavalier. Even a Magus might be able to handle it eventually).

Failing that, give wands of Infernal Healing, which the wizard can use. It's MUCH slower, but heals more per GP. He may even go into Loremaster and take UMD.

In the end, the only class that can't EVER really contribute to healing with a wand are Monk, Fighter, Barbarian and Gunslinger.

[shortround]

Wands are actually a godsend. Bard, Ranger, and Paladin with one wand replaces the heal bot entirely so that no player has to exclusively devote themselves to the role outside of just carrying a replaceable wand. For the price of one wand of Cure Light Wounds, you get 50d8+50 points of healing over its 50 charges. For a comparable price, you can get healing belts from the MIC that can heal up to 6d8 of damage over 3 charges that replenish daily if your party has no class with Cure on their spell list and none of them have any UMD ranks, or don't like the idea of wands in general.

[Empedocles]

Aside from potions, post 2 is right.

If any of the 3 play something with Cure Light Wounds on the class list (Bard, Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, Oracle, Inquisitor, Druid, Witch and Alchemist all get it), they can get a wand without issue. Any UMDer (The Rogue as well as any Summoner, Sorcerer or even a Dangerously Curious Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger/Cavalier. Even a Magus might be able to handle it eventually).

Failing that, give wands of Infernal Healing, which the wizard can use. It's MUCH slower, but heals more per GP. He may even go into Loremaster and take UMD.

In the end, the only class that can't EVER really contribute to healing with a wand are Monk, Fighter, Barbarian and Gunslinger.

Just for the record, while you give pretty good advice, that's not technically true. 3 feats can give any class UMD. The Cosmopolitan feat (there are two feats by this name. The one I'm talking about is from the FR Campaign Setting) and Aereni Focus let you take any skill as a class skill, and Apprentice (Spellcaster) lets you get UMD. Apprentice (Spellcaster) is the only non-setting specific, and can be found in the DMG II.

Also, by post 2 where you referring to my original post? :smallredface:

[mattie_p]

You are the DM in question, correct? If you only have three players in your party, DMPC might be in order (but don't make it optimized, save that for your foes). Once you get three more players in the mix, which it sounds like you are - it is entirely their problem. Let them figure it out on their own, drop a few hints like UMD and such, but once they start taking damage they'll figure out pretty quickly that they need some way of healing, and they'll find a way.

[nedz]

In the end, the only class that can't EVER really contribute to healing with a wand are Monk, Fighter, Barbarian and Gunslinger.

You mean you're not familiar with the Monk UMD Handbook

Seriously:
You could just add a temporary healbot DMPC, who will leave once you get a proper healer. Just make sure that they never do anything heroic.

Ed: sp - thanks Heatwizard

[Heatwizard]

You mean your not familier with the Monk UMD Handbook

Seriously:
You could just add a temporary healbot DMPC, who will leave once you get a proper healer. Just make sure that they never do anything heroic.

That's what he did, he's asking for an alternate idea.
(you're, familiar)

If you're using D&D spells, then wands of Cure Light will do the trick, but a wand of Lesser Vigor is more bang for one's proverbial buck. Heals 1 point every round for 15 rounds, for a guaranteed 750 points, as opposed to CLW's average of 275.

[PersonMan]

If you only have three players in your party, DMPC might be in order (but don't make it optimized, save that for your foes).


Seriously:
You could just add a temporary healbot DMPC, who will leave once you get a proper healer. Just make sure that they never do anything heroic.

I wonder why the OP didn't think of this, it seems like an obvious way to-


In the event that none of the new additions want to play a healer, what are some options I have to work around this problem besides running the healbot myself?

oh, wait, he did.

[Person_Man]

I think wands work well.

You can also buy a Sap and give it the Vampiric enchantment. Buy a horse or a dog and take turns beating it repeatedly until you are fully healed. The animal will never die, because it's non-lethal damage.

I've also used the house rule that all hit points are healed after 8 hours of rest.

Or you could just pace your adventure more slowly. When PCs get damaged, they can just leave the dungeon and camp for a few days (or weeks) to heal. It makes hit points into a far more valuable resource, and it encourages PCs to avoid combat and resolve encounters via other means (talking, setting up ambushes, hiding, etc).

[deuxhero]

Just for the record, while you give pretty good advice, that's not technically true. 3 feats can give any class UMD. The Cosmopolitan feat (there are two feats by this name. The one I'm talking about is from the FR Campaign Setting) and Aereni Focus let you take any skill as a class skill, and Apprentice (Spellcaster) lets you get UMD. Apprentice (Spellcaster) is the only non-setting specific, and can be found in the DMG II.

Also, by post 2 where you referring to my original post? :smallredface:


I know, and I recommended getting it by trait (because he is in PF) for two classes. The problem is the other classes I listed have Charisma as a dumb stats.

[mattie_p]

Personman, I saw what joca4christ posted, but in case I didn't, thank you for clarifying. My feedback on the DMPC was for a 3-person party. But if you read further what I wrote, I stated it is not a DM problem, it is a PC problem, especially for a 6 person party.

This was a hypothetical scenario. joca4christ currently DMs for 3 players, and runs a DMPC healbot. IF another 3 players join, and IF none wants to be a healer, what should he do as DM? And my response was, and remains, "Nothing - it is their problem."

[nedz]

I wonder why the OP didn't think of this, it seems like an obvious way to-

...

oh, wait, he did.

AND, although he doesn't like the solution, its still probably the best option.

[Gavinfoxx]

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710

You should really really read that!

[Doug Lampert]

AND, although he doesn't like the solution, its still probably the best option.

Not if running for six people it's not!

I usually argue that DMPCs can be fine and are not a problem if done well. But they are a distraction to the GM, and the more actual players the less the GM can afford to be distracted.

At even 3 players I'd recommend against having the DM run a DMPC in combat, tell the players, either one of you runs this guy as well as your own character in combat, or he stays home and doesn't participate, or he stands in the back and holds a torch. Your choice.

Additionally six players is PLENTY for them to either cover all the bases, or pay the price for an occassional wand to make up for not covering them all. Healing is the EASIEST core function to do with cheap items, don't pretend it needs a healbot, because you don't.

Even if you HAVE a cleric he should actually be saying: "buy me a wand or suck it up, my god-given powers are there for me to smite the enemy, which I do as well or better than any of the rest of you, not to fix your booboo when small amounts of money will do".

[limejuicepowder]

Wands. You (or the rogue) don't need to be a dedicated healer, but some ranks in UMD can provide emergency and out-of-combat healing.
Alternatively, simply add the cure spells to the wizard's spell list. There's no convincing reason that healing should be limited to kneelers anyway.

You're the DM, get creative!

[Venger]

If no one ends up playing a "healer" then give this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710.0) a look. it's helpful to all parties

[Gavinfoxx]

If no one ends up playing a "healer" then give this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710.0) a look. it's helpful to all parties

I already linked that!

[joca4christ]

Thanks for all the advice. And the link! It was very useful.

Looks like two of my potential three are not going to make it. I'm still inclined not to DMPC a cleric the whole game. Some of the suggestions I will really take to heart.

Right now, the party is just now verging into level 2, so they need some backup healing. Once they get some more experience under there belt, I will probably pull back on the cleric.

Besides, plotwise, it make sense for the cleric to be with them. (they were hired by his temple to investigate kidnappings, and they kind of kept him from being beat up.) I think, unless the new player WANTS to be a healer type, I will wait until the end of this "chapter" before removing him from play.

Thanks again!

[Venger]

I already linked that!

whoops. I clicked "reply" a couple of hours ago and then had to go do stuff. when I came back and posted, there had been activity. my mistake.

[Gavinfoxx]

Instead of making the character a Cleric, maybe make the DMPC character a Healer?

Lower power and stuff. Can't really actually help much in combat.

Example Level 2 Human Healer
Middle Aged (+1 mental, -1 physical stats)
15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
16 (15+1) Cha, 13 (14-1) Con, 14 (13+1) wis, 13 (12+1) int, 9 (10-1) dex, 7 (8-1) str
Feats: Dynamic Priest (fully cha based caster), Augment Healing
Skill Points: 30. Max Concentration, Heal, Knowledge Religion, Concentration, Spellcraft. 1 point in Profession Apothecary&Herbalist, 2 in Craft Alchemy
Equipment: Several Masterwork Healer's Kits.
Skill Tricks: Healing Hands
Hit points: 14
Saves: +4 fort, -1 ref, +5 will

Note: 5/day, can cast Cure Light Wounds for 1d8+6 points of healing. 4/day, can cast Cure Minor Wounds for 4 points of healing. Once every few minutes, when he stabilizes a dying character, that character heals 1d6 hit points. Heal skill modifier is +10 before competence bonus from masterwork items.

[Venger]

(make DMPC a capital H Healer)

that works too. here's some tips on how to use one in play (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6849.0)

[joca4christ]

I appreciate the alternative to Cleric idea that revolve around a different class build, but what I am trying to do is NOT run a DMPC. I actually don't mind being a divine caster. Actually, would welcome an opportunity to run an oracle/sorcerer/mystic theurge. (A character concept I have been toying with.)

Its just like somebody else said, it's distracting for me. Plus, I love the role-play aspect, and the last thing I want to do as DM is run a DMPC that becomes the leader/face of the party.

If the new player isnt open to being a divine caster, then we'll probably get into UMD and wands and such.

Thanks again!

[Spuddles]

At low levels, potions of cure light wounds are pretty useful. They're cheap, and anyone can use them. As most characters have almost if not as many HPs where they will be unconscious as they will be conscious, being able to force a potion down someone's throat to stabilize them or wake up the guy with UMD.

UMD is fine for out of combat healing, but sometimes, if you need to retreat behind your tower shield wall and bring your HP back up, potions of CLW can mean the difference between life and death.

And again, they're dirt cheap. Dropping 100, 150 gp on them, in the long run, isn't going to hurt you at all. Especially if you can't use those GPs for a scroll cause you're a barbarian.


[edit]
I mean get potions for those really close battles where everyone's getting knocked in and out of the negatives and the rogue with the wand cannot be everywhere at once.

Buy two wands of CLW and UMD those. Dirt cheap, especially if the whole party chips in for them.

[Gavinfoxx]

At low levels, potions of cure light wounds are pretty useful. They're cheap, and anyone can use them.

Right, everyone makes sure to have one 50 gp potion of Faith Healing attuned to their god on their person, for emergency, life-saving use.

Everyone also gets a Healing Belt (which is generally better than potions, but a potion of faith healing is okay).

And the healer has two wands of Lesser Vigor.

But saying that potions are cheap and useful in general? No, ack no no! Everyone gets one emergency potion, MAYBE two, and a healing belt, and 95% of the healing is done with a wand outside of combat, which is replaced when necessary.

[Spuddles]

Right, everyone makes sure to have one 50 gp potion of Faith Healing attuned to their god on their person, for emergency, life-saving use.

Everyone also gets a Healing Belt (which is generally better than potions, but a potion of faith healing is okay).

And the healer has two wands of Lesser Vigor.

But saying that potions are cheap and useful in general? No, ack no no! Everyone gets one emergency potion, MAYBE two, and a healing belt, and 95% of the healing is done with a wand outside of combat, which is replaced when necessary.

These are all pro-tips, with you 100%. Lesser vigor and healing belts aren't always on the table, though. If they are, don't bother with the potions.

[Alaris]

Okay... there may be 6 people playing the game. If NONE of them choose to be a healer, or take any healing-inclined items or feats along with them, then they have set themselves up for failure. It is not your job to provide them with a healer. It IS your job to provide them with a plot hook, and a story.

Kindly recommend that someone do something to help with the lack of healing in the party, but if they choose to shoot down this recommendation, then let them go on without healing. They will soon learn that having some kind of healer is a good idea.

[Alaris]

Okay... there may be 6 people playing the game. If NONE of them choose to be a healer, or take any healing-inclined items or feats along with them, then they have set themselves up for failure. It is not your job to provide them with a healer. It IS your job to provide them with a plot hook, and a story.

Kindly recommend that someone do something to help with the lack of healing in the party, but if they choose to shoot down this recommendation, then let them go on without healing. They will soon learn that having some kind of healer is a good idea.

[Aran Thule]

Right now, the party is just now verging into level 2, so they need some backup healing. Once they get some more experience under there belt, I will probably pull back on the cleric.

Besides, plotwise, it make sense for the cleric to be with them. (they were hired by his temple to investigate kidnappings, and they kind of kept him from being beat up.) I think, unless the new player WANTS to be a healer type, I will wait until the end of this "chapter" before removing him from play.


I agree it makes sense for the first chapter, there are several encounters that could end up TPK so having the priest stick around to monitor the rescue could be a life saver.
Also as you mention it adds to the roleplay and allows them to interact more with Jenya and co.
By the time they finish this chapter i would expect them to be 3rd level and they should be able to afford a wand of CLW.
The priest could attend to other duties but could possibly be available to help if you find a player cant turn up to a session or to assist with a rescue at a later date.

[Heatwizard]

By the time they finish this chapter i would expect them to be 3rd level and they should be able to afford a wand of CLW.

It can also just be dropped for 'em. If there's an upcoming fight with some humans, sneak a half-capacity wand into one of their pockets and you're good to go.

[Telonius]

Yeah, Jenya was the first NPC helper who came to mind. The Striders of Fharlanghn or Skie might give them some special deals too. Shensen too, once they reach the Lucky Monkey. Really, there are plenty of resources and plot hooks for you to get somebody with at least a minimal amount of healing ability (or at worst, one person who either has a one-level Cleric dip or high UMD so you can use wands).

I'd be a bit more concerned with lack of higher-level Cleric magic later on in the campaign though. IIRC, there are plenty of status-dealing enemies, and they might have trouble without access to appropriate defenses and counter-measures. There's also a large amount of interplay between the Temples (particularly St. Cuthbert and Wee Jas, though I've seen campaigns that focused more on Pelor as well). Total lack of Cleric might mean you miss out on a bunch of that.

[Fyermind]

You could leave the healer in for a while then in the middle of an adventure where they really need him, have him die. That is always fun. (halfway IN to a dungeon relying on heals to clean up or get out).

Seriously it isn't necessarily your job, but if the players totally abandon all sensibilities (I've seen it happen), dropping in a rod of cure minor wounds at will, covers out of combat healing. You can scale the power of your healing items as appropriate, but as DM custom item making is your power, and doling them out as you see fit is basically what you do when you aren't "trying" to kill the PCs.

[nedz]

Actually having thought about this a bit more, I'd like to change my advice.

Take no action: this is a problem for the party to resolve. Now don't close any doors, but let them take the initiative.

This probably won't work if they are new BTW; and being kind at level 1 with a DMPC heal-bot is probably OK, which is what I assumed.

For the over-load problem either have the DMPC avoid combat and just provide out of combat healing, or let a player run them in combat (subject to your veto obviously).