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Ordan Coal
2012-05-04, 10:19 AM
Ok, so, this is my first time GMing, and it's going surprisingly well. My players are all about level nine now, and there seems to be little problem (other than the fact that they seem to be some of the luckiest damn dice rollers I've ever seen, but I digress). However, I have stumbled upon a little problem which stems from my lack of real life understanding of building. Let me explain the situation.

The group decided to head to some abandoned islands in the middle of a giant lake (literally hundreds of miles wide). This section of the world is basically rain forests, raining heavily multiple times every week, and it's quite humid and hot (on average 80-90 degrees in the middle of spring). They stumbled upon a village (actually rolling TWO critical rolls for tracking, again, digress) whose inhabitants happened to be in the middle of a ceremony, sacrificing one of their villagers to the great Purple Worm that lived below. The adventurers decided to investigate. After injuring it and hunting it down (no, seriously, the SOBs hunted it down like it owed them money), they proclaimed themselves the new rulers of the island, to which the villagers (with a population of roughly 60 people) could not argue against. Expecting to find a few coins, they were astounded when they found a hut filled to the brim with coins and valuables (which the villagers have dubbed "shiny").

Yeah I know, long back story. Here's where the problem comes up. They want to build a good old fashion viking long house with the funds they have dug up. Here are the problems with this.

First and foremost, I have NO idea how to build a long house. More importantly, I don't know how long it takes to build a long house of any magnitude or size. While none of the PCs are carpenters or builders of any kind, they plan on hiring some to do the work. Which comes to my next problem. Material. Would rain forest material work for something like a long house? If they could chop down the trees? Would the humidity/heat cause any problems with the structure itself?

Basically, my questions come down to this. How long would it take to build it, and would there be any issues because of the particular location for building a long house, keeping in mind that there is a cheap labor force already available (the villagers). Anything I may have missed "side note" wise that should be taken into account, please let me know. Thanks for reading, and a special thank you to helping a rookie GM ^^

Eric Tolle
2012-05-04, 10:58 AM
I'd handwave the building, and give them the longhouse exactly as they want it. And then have it swallowed up, treasure and all by the Cthonian that was the parent of the purple worm. "Go ahead. Chase it down."

Oracle_Hunter
2012-05-04, 10:59 AM
Yeah I know, long back story. Here's where the problem comes up. They want to build a good old fashion viking long house with the funds they have dug up. Here are the problems with this.

First and foremost, I have NO idea how to build a long house. More importantly, I don't know how long it takes to build a long house of any magnitude or size. While none of the PCs are carpenters or builders of any kind, they plan on hiring some to do the work. Which comes to my next problem. Material. Would rain forest material work for something like a long house? If they could chop down the trees? Would the humidity/heat cause any problems with the structure itself?

Basically, my questions come down to this. How long would it take to build it, and would there be any issues because of the particular location for building a long house, keeping in mind that there is a cheap labor force already available (the villagers). Anything I may have missed "side note" wise that should be taken into account, please let me know. Thanks for reading, and a special thank you to helping a rookie GM ^^
So... who are they planning on paying to build this thing and with what? If the villagers didn't notice that they had a hut full of valuable goods then they're probably not interested in being paid with gold & such. Likewise, if the villagers don't build log houses (and the PCs don't know how to build them) then they're not going to get log houses built.

That said, I'd fudge the heck out of this. Since they appear to be the undisputed rulers of the island just have them draft the villagers to build them some elaborate house out of native materials and say it takes a month -- provided we're talking about a house and not a mansion. If they want a mansion, have it take 6 months.

In short -- you're overthinking this. Unless you plan on making the building of this house an adventure on its own, don't sweat the details.

Totally Guy
2012-05-04, 11:00 AM
Is this a conflict?

If not then don't worry about it. Skip forward a couple of seasons and they'll have a longhouse.

If it is a conflict, someone wants to stop them or there's bad stuff ready to halt the plan, then you can interrupt it. Threaten the longhouse in an interesting way.



To finish a journey there are only two arrival times. In time to fulfill the intent of the journey and too late to fulfill the intent of the journey.

This is kind of like that.

What is the intent behind them building a longhouse?

hamlet
2012-05-04, 11:14 AM
If nobody on the island is carpenter enough to design and build such a longhouse, they're gonna have to import an expert from the mainland. Figure, maybe, 20gp for his time and skills.

They'll have to have labor to actually build it, though it seems like they're now overlords of 60 some odd villagers, so that'll work out for them.

Materials abound if it's a jungle, so no worries.

Figure . . . a week to actually construct something on the average of 20ft long, proportionately more as you grow it.

All figures just made up off the top of my head.

Or you can pick up the book that talks about strongholds and do some really contorted math on it.

Aux-Ash
2012-05-04, 01:57 PM
First of all... let's just mention that there are several cultures that did (and do) build longhouses in tropical climates. It's a really simple and solid idea for a large house that can house a lot of people. Very good for early agricultural societies.

So the first question is if they want a viking longhouse or just a longhouse. The former is specifically designed after the scandinavian climate and the latter according to the local climate.

Regardless, the first thing you need is long straight sturdy trees. If that is available, then longhouses are possible. The trunks primarily beeing needed for the frames and the supports. If long straight trees aren't available, or if the wood is too flexible and bends under weight then it's going to be considerably more difficult to build.

Then we come to a crucial difference. Viking longhouses are built on stamped mud floors. Tropical longhouses are elevated on poles.
The reason is that there's considerably less toxic stuff crawling on/in the ground in scandinavia than in tropical climates. Stuff you really don't want to enter your bed easily. Raising the entire building a meter above ground certainly helps.
So if they really insist building a "viking" long house. Then you could awlays use such stuff to tell them why it was a bad idea :smallbiggrin:

Once the frames are inplace then the houses are fairly similar. The walls are fairly similar. Both being made to primarily keep water out. The thatched straw roof isn't going to fare much worse in a tropical climate than in scandinavia.
But remember, houses like this are high maintenance and after a few years you replace it (the house. not just the roof). Burn it down and start over.

I'd say it'd take a decent group of say 20 or so about a week to build. It doesn't really incorporate any really advanced design. It's just a case of a lot of repetetive manual labour. You would need a handful of people (carpenters) that are experienced with building this sort of building. Knowing where to set down supportpillars, how to best suspend the supports and how to distribute the weight.
But if the island got long sturdy trees... then the locals will know how to (unless they're recent arrivals).

Ordan Coal
2012-05-05, 12:47 PM
So... who are they planning on paying to build this thing and with what? If the villagers didn't notice that they had a hut full of valuable goods then they're probably not interested in being paid with gold & such. Likewise, if the villagers don't build log houses (and the PCs don't know how to build them) then they're not going to get log houses built.

That said, I'd fudge the heck out of this. Since they appear to be the undisputed rulers of the island just have them draft the villagers to build them some elaborate house out of native materials and say it takes a month -- provided we're talking about a house and not a mansion. If they want a mansion, have it take 6 months.

In short -- you're overthinking this. Unless you plan on making the building of this house an adventure on its own, don't sweat the details.

While I'll admit I do tend to over think things, at the same time I like to try and make things somewhat realistic. And truth be told, I have no idea if it takes weeks or years (seriously, I know absolutely nothing about building). The PCs planned on hiring a group of carpenters off the mainland (for which I already have prices reserved for their payment coupled with feeding and housing expenses, plus the danger pay involved plus travel). Out of the village, about twenty or so people can really "work" (the others are elderly, women, or children). The natives know about the gold, but unlike our society where it's used as currency, they more or less use it for religious purposes. The Islands surrounding this one have been warring for decades over it, but you can't really "buy" anything with it (I have a story for how the wealth got there). And, yes, they are the undisputed rulers of this particular Island, but now that they've supposedly "killed the worm", there's nothing to hold the other Islands back from laying siege to the place (that's that this weekends going to be centered on, defending the Island). And like I said before, only about twenty or so can actually be used as a "labor" force, and it's more of a "I can be a good ruler or a nice ruler, your call" type of labor x D

I do appreciate everyone's responses! I think I'm coming to a conclusion about how long this place will take. Learned quite a bit already, and I hope to learn more : )

Ordan Coal
2012-05-05, 12:49 PM
I'd handwave the building, and give them the longhouse exactly as they want it. And then have it swallowed up, treasure and all by the Cthonian that was the parent of the purple worm. "Go ahead. Chase it down."

Don't tempt me, the crazy Sons of Bitches might just do it..

Ordan Coal
2012-05-05, 12:52 PM
Is this a conflict?

If not then don't worry about it. Skip forward a couple of seasons and they'll have a longhouse.

If it is a conflict, someone wants to stop them or there's bad stuff ready to halt the plan, then you can interrupt it. Threaten the longhouse in an interesting way.



To finish a journey there are only two arrival times. In time to fulfill the intent of the journey and too late to fulfill the intent of the journey.

This is kind of like that.

What is the intent behind them building a longhouse?

It's a looooong story behind how they got here and why they want a place to set up shop. They can probably hide out more or less for some time, bit I doubt they'll be able to stay low for too long. Still, point taken.

Ordan Coal
2012-05-05, 12:55 PM
First of all... let's just mention that there are several cultures that did (and do) build longhouses in tropical climates. It's a really simple and solid idea for a large house that can house a lot of people. Very good for early agricultural societies.

So the first question is if they want a viking longhouse or just a longhouse. The former is specifically designed after the scandinavian climate and the latter according to the local climate.

Regardless, the first thing you need is long straight sturdy trees. If that is available, then longhouses are possible. The trunks primarily beeing needed for the frames and the supports. If long straight trees aren't available, or if the wood is too flexible and bends under weight then it's going to be considerably more difficult to build.

Then we come to a crucial difference. Viking longhouses are built on stamped mud floors. Tropical longhouses are elevated on poles.
The reason is that there's considerably less toxic stuff crawling on/in the ground in scandinavia than in tropical climates. Stuff you really don't want to enter your bed easily. Raising the entire building a meter above ground certainly helps.
So if they really insist building a "viking" long house. Then you could awlays use such stuff to tell them why it was a bad idea :smallbiggrin:

Once the frames are inplace then the houses are fairly similar. The walls are fairly similar. Both being made to primarily keep water out. The thatched straw roof isn't going to fare much worse in a tropical climate than in scandinavia.
But remember, houses like this are high maintenance and after a few years you replace it (the house. not just the roof). Burn it down and start over.

I'd say it'd take a decent group of say 20 or so about a week to build. It doesn't really incorporate any really advanced design. It's just a case of a lot of repetetive manual labour. You would need a handful of people (carpenters) that are experienced with building this sort of building. Knowing where to set down supportpillars, how to best suspend the supports and how to distribute the weight.
But if the island got long sturdy trees... then the locals will know how to (unless they're recent arrivals).

By far the most useful answer out of the bunch (not to say the other answers haven't been helpful or aren't appreciated!) I'll keep all of this in mind, especially the part about raising the building. It hadn't quite crossed my mind that all the rain probably causes frequent flooding. I'm probably going to end up saying a couple of weeks for what they are wanting to build, and I'll have one of the natives inform them about keeping themselves off the ground with all the naughty nibblers and what not: )

Thanks again!

Jay R
2012-05-05, 10:58 PM
Back in the nineteenth century, the English moved from cold England to try to build an empire in India and other sub-tropical locations. At first they built English style homes and wore English clothes, and would be miserable. Some of them would eventually figure it out and start wearing clothes and living in houses built for the climate. These English were sneered at by the ones who were still uncomfortable for "going native".

These villagers live in a hot place where food is plentiful, and they build nothing bigger than a hut. Their new masters want them to start chopping down trees, shaping them into logs, transporting them to the right location, and then building a longhouse, for which there is no use. I estimate three weeks until the revolt.

They might start assassinating the PCs in their sleep, or sabotaging the building, but I suspect the most likely result will just be the natives slipping off into the jungle, losing about 5% of the work force each night. (They certainly won't be stupid enough to face the PCs directly, or form up into a fireball-sized crowd.)

Alternatively, if you don't want to be that nice to the players, let them build the longhouse, in three months time. The PCs will then be the proud owners of a non-air-conditioned building with little ventilation, in a tropical rain forest, in the middle of summer, after all the shade trees have been cut down. No one will be able to stand being in that unventilated, moist hothouse at any time of the day or night -- except, of course, all the mosquitoes. They'll love it. The surrounding village will have the worst mosquito season that they have ever seen.

Oh - and come winter time, it will be the favored place of refuge for all scorpions, spiders, rats and any other small pests.

There's a reason the villagers live in airy huts.

nedz
2012-05-06, 06:43 AM
You could turn this into a running gag, all played out over about a dozen sessions.

The natives build them their house, but they don't quite know how to do it and so it falls down.

The natives build a second house on top of the first, but they still haven't worked this out properly. This house lasts a bit longer before it too falls down.

The natives build a third house on top of the second. This is a good house since they've worked out what they did wrong the first two times. This house burns down.

The natives build a fourth house on top of the third. They get to keep this one.