Interesting Gestalt Combinations

[VarianArdell]

as the title says. what are your favorites, and how do they work (if not blatantly obvious)?

[Lorgenz]

hmm i dont know about favorite but the thing i'm currently working on is a cleric//druid with plans to add moonspeaker to the druid side of things as well as bone knight on the other side of the equation. great thing about bone armor... its not metal armor. however you need a dm that allows eberron to do this. we haven't started yet though so i'm not sure how it will work

[Man on Fire]

Srom core classes only:
Paladin/Sorceror (Charisma gives you saves and spells) and Monk/Cleric (Wisdom gives you AC and spells and you'll be suprised how many Cleric's spells are of touch range) are pretty sweet from gameplay point of view. I'm not sure about Monk/Druid but it also sounds sweet. From rolleplaying point of view I would suggest Wizard/Sorceror - not only you may give him interesting bacstory explaining his dual nature but also you may play one sneaky bastard who suprises enemies with offensive sorc spells - or Wizard/Barbarian - for sole reason of having fun explaining why Barbarian earned magic - or Bard/Barbrian who is pretty climatic guy, who chants songs of courage while going into battle.

[kardar233]

I like Bard4/Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian1/Shou Disciple1/Warblade14//Warlock6/Cleric1/Prestige Paladin3/Hellfire Warlock3/Legacy Champion 8.

Works best as a Dragonwrought Kobold. Get Eldritch Claws, Rapidstrike, Beast Strike and Dragonfire Inspiration, toss tons of d6s on 9 attacks per round.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Factotum + anything else based on INT (spell to power erudite?)
Cunning Surge + Font of Inspiration = lots of extra actions

[Chronos]

A few general guidelines:

1: You'll generally only be able to use your actions for one class at a time, so it's a good idea to choose one class as your "active" class, and one as a "passive" class (with always-on abilities, or things you can activate out of combat with long durations, or abilities that let you get extra actions). The simplest example of this would be a wizard//barbarian (or warblade or knight) that plays just like a straight wizard, but with a lot more HP, full BAB, a couple more skill points, and a good Fort save. Another good example would be a druid//monk, who plays like a druid with all good saves, Wis to AC, and faster movement.

2: Getting the same thing on both sides doesn't do you any good, so you should look for things that give similar effects, but in different ways. For instance, a fighter//barbarian wouldn't be much better than a fighter or barbarian separately, since they both work pretty much the same way. But a fighter//swordsage would be better than either, since he'd get full BAB from the fighter side, and maneuvers from the swordsage side. The extreme example of this (which some DMs might consider cheesy) would be the War Hulk prestige class, which gives no BAB at all but gives +2 Strength at each level, paired with a more conventional warrior-class. Other examples might be a spellcaster paired with classes that benefit spellcasting in some way but don't actually progress it directly, or a skillmonkey class (rogue etc.) paired with a class that gives a bunch of bonuses to skills like Incarnate.

3: DMs vary on how they deal with LA and racial hit dice. Some DMs might rule that one or both of those take up both halves of your gestalt, or rule that they can't be taken at the same time, while others will let them count just like any other class level. If the latter, gestalt is a good opportunity to try out some interesting creatures without getting crushed by the level adjustment.

[danzibr]

Factotum + anything else based on INT (spell to power erudite?)
Cunning Surge + Font of Inspiration = lots of extra actions
In particular, I find Factotum//Warblade to be really cool.

[docnessuno]

Factotum + anything else based on INT (spell to power erudite?)
Cunning Surge + Font of Inspiration = lots of extra actions

Factotum + Artificer is my personal favorite (Cunning Surge)

Factotum + Warblade is a great combination too (Cunning Surge)

Full bab classes/prc / Wizard (a gestalt gish)

Sorcerer / Paladin (as above)

Half dragon War troll / Something (Unbeatable regeneration and incredible stats)

[Hylas]

Druid//Rogue was a fun idea. Shapeshift into a small bird and dive bomb people with a sneak attack.

A PF game I'll be DMing will be introducing gestalt to my group. The first player I helped make a character for decided to be a Paladin//Oracle. Should be quite interesting.

[Axier]

Dragonfire Adept / Monk -- High unarmored AC, neat Invocations, and a firebreathing monk is always cool.

Factotum/Rogue//Chameleon -- Ultimate universalist!

Wizard/Archivist -- Because Tier 1 really needs a Tier 0!

Psion/Fighter -- Its like Psionic Warrior, only more Warrior, and more Psi.

Warlock / Rogue -- Sneaky lasers!

Warlock / Monk -- Either evil, or DM fiat ignoring stupid Warlock chaotic only, because asthetic fiend powers sounds like fun.

[Feralventas]

Vivisectionist Alchemist//Rogue
The back-alley doctor who'll be happy to take that extra organ you won't be needing, and top off with a piece of your liver, but will take you apart if you try to go back on the deal or take advantage of him. 20d6 sneak attack damage at 20th level, getting 2d6 every odd level.

Favored Soul//Cleric/Ur-Priest.
Being blessed and beloved wasn't enough. Divinity was far too sweet to simply accept it as a gift.

Battle-Dancer//Sorcerer.
Talented, beautiful, amicable, and powerful. Your movements speak of grace and fluid motions. Your blood sings of cosmic energies. Mixing both you've turned yourself into an unearthly combination of the material and the metaphysical.

Bard5/Lyric Thaumaterge/Sublime Chord//Truenamer.
Sing, and the world dances with the tunes. Speak, and reality answers the call. The power of words and meaning is far more than simple communication. Compose reality into a harmonic masterpiece.

Crusader//Mystic
Your's is the path of personal growth. By bloodshed, contemplation, exploration and exertion, you seek to understand your true self and, in doing so, unlock the potential. No cause has called to you yet, and until it does, your inquiry continues to be an inward journey though you may seek allies or company along the path. You seek to become a force for something, but what?

[Duke of URL]

Gotta second Warlock // Rogue -- not the most powerful, but very flavorful.

I'll add in Dread Necromancer // Cloistered Cleric -- get access to those nifty Cleric spells you need to fill in the annoying gaps on your DN spell list (like desecrate!), extra skill points, and not a huge investment in Wisdom if you keep to no-save clerical spells.

[Waker]

No love for Meldshapers?
Incarnate + Any Martial Class. Suddenly the Dungeoncrasher Fighter doesn't need a wall, because with his trusty Airstep Sandals, all he needs is the ground. Or how about a Barbarian who's suddenly immune to Charm effects because of his Enigma Helm. Tons of potential, whether you are a Warblade, Rogue or anything else.
Totemist + Nature class. More for thematic reasons, but Totemist can really beef up any class that loves nature and a good brawl. That pouncing Barbarian is a real terror when he's hitting with six extra natural attacks. Or how about a Scout with a Manticore Belt bound to his totem chakra?
Monk + Pure Spellcaster. By itself a monk is an underpowered class, but when mixed with a mage of any type, it's suddenly a huge boost, granting AC, great saves, decent HP and skills. Plus the Wis to AC can be changed with Kung-Fu Genius (Int) or Ascetic Mage (Cha).
Spellthief + Arcane Caster/War Weaver. You can buff the party and potentially steal spells from the enemy...to buff the party.
Bard + Archivist. You know everything there is to know about anything, plus you are excellent at making a party better at everything they do.

[Menteith]

Anything involving Factotum + Trapsmith + Swiftblade on one side and something with Wizard spellcasting on the other. Have ALL the standard actions!

[mattsdelf]

Here are some ideas that i thought would work well with a gestalt character.

Warmage/ Barbarian? That way you get to blast your opponents, and you can wear armor with both. But wait, there's more, you get d12 hit dice, a +1 base attack, lots of free meta-magics, and uncanny dodge.

Warmage/Cleric, switching cleric for dragon disciple prestige? That way, you get all the boons of being a warmage half dragon who can turn and heal, and you get bonus spells.

Druid/Rouge? A druid's animal companion allows you to flank your enemy to get sneak attacks off, take a stealthy animal companion and you are good to go. Wild shape would take you far, as you can sneak attack with natural weapons. There are many cool spells that help with a rouges abilities. Not to mention that you still get evasion and all the skills you could want.

Bard/Rouge? Arcane magic could benefit rouges in all kinds of ways too, Identify, invisibility, detect magic, read magic, disguise self, and dispel can make a rouge more awesome. Bard/Rouge may seem like an unlikely couple, but the bonus on skills, and bardic knowledge could go a long way.

Monk/Druid? You don't gain too much up front, the hd, saves aren't awesome, and you have to deal with both classes baggage, but think about it. Wisdom goes to your AC, and monks can't wear armor already, so it makes up for no metal. Aside from the animal companion and reservoir of spells, Wild shape could allow a monk to gain more and more attacks for their furry of blows, which they can use natural weapons to do. Pretty cool if you ask me.

I don't have the book of nine swords available, but i know that maneuvers would be EPIC with a monk's abilities. I have been thinking of Dming a gestalt campaign where i throw monsters with max hit points two ECL higher than the characters at the party. I like how things like gestalt give Dm's more options for being evil. :smallwink:

[Adamantrue]

I really like the Monk//Ranger. Full BAB, all Good Saves, reasonably decent Ability synergy. And a lot of ACFs for you to choose from.

[rmg22893]

Druid 20//Wizard 3/Geomancer 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 is super-fun and flavorful. And one of the few times Geomancer actually increases the power of a build.

[dspeyer]

Master of Many Forms goes well with almost anything. Psion is probably the most powerful pairing, but anything goes. Wildshape ranger is generally the best entrance (since it covers half the feat tax and has good stats).

[Darth Stabber]

@feralventas: favored soul//cleric/urpriest would be a crappy combination. Urpriest turns off both your favored soul and cleric casting, not good at all.

I have been tweeking a build for a while now that I would play in a heartbeat if a GM would sign off on it.

Pixie druid20//pixie LA4/unarmed swordsage2/saint template LA2/spirit lion totem whirling frenzy barbarian1/totemist11 with VoP. Druid's power is fairly obvious, and given the difficulty of using magic items while wildshaped, VoP works pretty well. Unarmed swordsage is taken for wis to ac, unarmed strikes (which adds an iterative attack to a full attack in any form), and a couple boosts (particularly the reflex save replacer). Saint template adds wis to ac again, adds significant boosts to stats, and several other interesting abilities. Totemist gives MORE natural weapons, and item like bonuses, and since I have VoP, the normal drawback to the class is negated. And rounding out my classes is barbarian with the favored ACFs, giving me an extra attack for one encounter perday, and pounce regardless of form taken (I could get it from totemist, but that eats a chakra bind, and totemist12 doesn't really give that much over totemist11). With intuitive attack being a basically free exalted feat (VoP gives you 10 exalted feats, and there aren't 10 good ones), and weapon finesse being free from pixie, I always choose the best of my wisdom, strength and dex when making attacks with simple and natural weapons. On a final note is pixie, the glue that holds this together: it has awesome stat mods, small size, greater invisibility all the time, fly 60ft(good), DR 10/cold iron, SR 15+class levels, and some useful SLAs, at the cost of 4lvls (which is fine in gestalt). Pixie is pretty much my race of choice in gestalt(barring a melee focused non-druid).

Other than that I have several combos I like:

Wilder//paladin - all the goodness of sorcadin, plus armor!

Psion(egoist)//warblade - not as good as factotum with either class, but there is some good synergy here, especially since there is a feat that let's you spend 3pp and psionic focus to ready a spent manuever as a swift action (time stands still two turns in a row? Especially after a hustle across the battlefield?)

Bard//Crusader - sing and swing, pray and play. Party face + smashing faces is a good time.

Samurai10/paladin of tyranny3/hexblade5/ronin2//dread necromancer20 - mostly as an excuse to get some level of efficacy out of samurai. Fear aura + aura of despair is nice, especially when combined with mass staredown and imperious command, and that's before spells. Add to it an incredible set of saving throws, mettle (no damage from cures), and free OOC healing. Add spells and a legion of undead minions, and it's pretty nice.

Archivist//duskblade - duskblade really doesn't have enough good touch spells to channel upside people's heads, but the cleric list is loaded with good touch spells. Archivist solves the potential MAD problem, and can cast spells clerics could never dream of. And having access to both summon monster and summon natures ally is never a bad thing.

Dragonborn Sorcerer//dragon shaman - not the strongest combo, but they sync up pretty well, and you can use all those nice breathweapony spells without having to burn a spell on getting the breath weapon in the firstplace, and you have two seperate breathweapon cooldowns (and hopefully from two different elements).

Cleric//incarnate - with DMM persist you are the master of all day buffs.

Rogue//Barbarian/bearwarrior - what do you mean you didn't see that angry bear sneaking up on you?

Paladin/greyguard//Rogue - you might have to work something out with your GM on this, but you can definitely conjure up the inquisitor feel with this combo, and have skills to make greyguard really good.

[gorfnab]

Binder // Hexblade - nice debuffer with some utility

Bard // Dread Necromancer - with Requiem feat = Thriller!

Dragon Shaman // Crusader - mini healer and tank

Binder // Crusader - cha synergy and some utility

Wilder // Crusader - cha synergy tank

Swordsage // Spell-less Wildshape Ranger/ Master or Many Forms/ Warshaper

Pyschic Warrior // Spell-less Wildshape Ranger/ Master or Many Forms/ Warshaper

Swordsage // Swift Hunter

[Jeff the Green]

Personally, I like Beguiler//Swordsage or Beguiler//Archivist.

In the first case, you use the feat Shadow Trickster to boost your illusion DCs, and you have the melee capability to make use of cloaked/hidden casting. In the second, you basically play as a summoner, but you also add an illusion or two to the mix. That way you conserve spells and scare the heck out of your enemies.

[Dr.Orpheus]

Forsaker 10 / Risen Martyr 10 // Ozodrin 19 / Paladin 1

Next level you become an NPC, but untill then you will be awsome. lets say your starting cha is 18 well you get +10 from Forsaker +4 from Risen Martyr +8 from vow of poverty sense you have natural weapons +4 from leveling. Thats a cha mod of 17 that you use for AC, saves, and form points. Because you will be so defensive with Forsaker and Risen Martyr class features and vow of poverty you can poor all of your form points into offence, utility, and mobility. You have melee and ranged combat, grappling, physical and magical defense, flying, swimming, charms, disguises, decoys, debuffs, and a portable storage/prison. Besides the power of the build you can roleplay a mutant angel which is pretty cool.

[Snowbluff]

Hmm.... Wizard/Swiftblade on Thri-kreen Fighter. Crazy Crit Wizard! Being a Thri-Kreen gives you enough arms to use Multitasking, for more Spellcasting/Round. Add in Swiftblade's extra Standard Action and Quicken Spell (Metaphysical Spellshaper + Easy Metamagic if allowed will wreck stuff), and you got a good number of spells going. Fighter helps cut down the feats prereqs.

Factotum8 can be put in on the fighter side, if you see fit. Diopsid will work better than Thri-Kreen, if allowed.

[nedz]

Scout//Warlock or Scout//Sorceror(Ray focussed)
or
Swift Hunter//Warlock or Swift Hunter//Sorceror(Ray focussed)

Any of these options stack the skirmish damage onto the ray effect and create a skillmonkey with more options.

Can be little MAD since you want Dex+Cha for the Sorc, less so for the Warlock.

[Madara]

I like sticking Warlock on pretty much anything, since its a very nice passive class.

Try Warlock//Archevist/Walker in the Waste

Master of touch attacks

[Wings of Peace]

Anything (but Primarily casters) + Generic Warrior 20. It's simple effectiveness is what makes it such an elegant addition to most builds.

[Soranar]

for sheer power , I don't think anything beats Spellpower Erudite//Factotum

for fun

Warlock/ hellfire warlock// Sneak attack Thug

Full BAB, decent skill list and skillpoints and eldritch glaive becomes devastating with a full sneak attack progression

[Andreaz]

[3.PF]
I thoroughly enjoyed paladin//oracle, as well as Wizard/Swiftblade/Abjurant Champion // Warblade, Esper Knight // Incarnate and Paladin // Incarnate

[Menteith]

Duskblade // UA Generic Spellcaster (int, arcane) with Versatile Spellcaster is my favorite Gish. Full BAB, all good saves, 4 skills of your choice, Arcane Channeling with Shivering Touch, and a staggering amount of spells/day.

[Darth Stabber]

Here's what I don't get, generic classes are written as a replacement for the ENTIRE class system, it even says that it's not supposed to be mixed, and from time to time I still see it in builds.

[Deox]

Monk 2 / Fighter 2 / Warblade 16 // Beguiler 5 / Mindbender 1 / Rainbow Servant 10 / Beguiler +4.

Swap your Wisdom to Int for Monk and you're ready to rock and roll.

[khalathas]

My current favorite right now is Duskblade\\Wizard\Abjurant Champion\Iot7, since Duskblade's channel says nothing about ONLY being able to channel Duskblade spells. Makes a very tank-able wizard.

[Greyfeld85]

I have a gestalt character I've been trying to get into a game for months:

Bard10/Shadow Adept10//Dread Necromancer20

Basically, my version of a dirgesinger (since the actual dirgesinger PrC blows). She sings her haunting melodies as her creeping undead rip your flesh from your body. Inspire Awe, Fear Aura and Doomspeak keep your enemies debuffed while your undead army does their work. Alternatively, Requiem, DFI, and a hefty amount of WBL allows you to create your own army of fire-launching bowmen.

[Greyfeld85]

My current favorite right now is Duskblade\\Wizard\Abjurant Champion\Iot7, since Duskblade's channel says nothing about ONLY being able to channel Duskblade spells. Makes a very tank-able wizard.

The problem i have with this (and I did think about Duskblade//Wizard for a while) is that you're basically giving up all the versatility of a Wizard in combat to be able to swing your sword a little better.

I mean, I understand that the Wizard levels are there to give you an expanded touch-spell list for channeling (not to mention all the extra spell slots you have for channeling Arcane Strike), but I can't suppress that nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "You're not making a more powerful duskblade, you're making a gimped wizard."

[Snowbluff]

The problem i have with this (and I did think about Duskblade//Wizard for a while) is that you're basically giving up all the versatility of a Wizard in combat to be able to swing your sword a little better.

I mean, I understand that the Wizard levels are there to give you an expanded touch-spell list for channeling (not to mention all the extra spell slots you have for channeling Arcane Strike), but I can't suppress that nagging voice in the back of my head that says, "You're not making a more powerful duskblade, you're making a gimped wizard."

Absolutely not! The wizard creates a ceiling for you build. Adding Iot7V makes one half of your gestalt a very powerful build. The extra BaB and Health are something you should be adding to keep in line with the other people, who will invariably be full casters with full BaB and good HD.

[Greyfeld85]

Absolutely not! The wizard creates a ceiling for you build. Adding Iot7V makes one half of your gestalt a very powerful build. The extra BaB and Health are something you should be adding to keep in line with the other people, who will invariably be full casters with full BaB and good HD.

I can only assume that you're being serious. In which case, I have to say:

At what point has having a good BAB ever mattered to full spellcasters in the history of 3.5e, ever? Being gestalt doesn't suddenly make save-or-suck spells key off of BAB.

[Snowbluff]

I can only assume that you're being serious. In which case, I have to say:

At what point has having a good BAB ever mattered to full spellcasters in the history of 3.5e, ever? Being gestalt doesn't suddenly make save-or-suck spells key off of BAB.

No, but it adds to the hit ratio of spells that aren't high failure percentage SoS. With the increased difficulty of the gestalt campaign, you sure as hell have to have something better to do that trying to Slay Living a creature with 40+ con. Like swinging a sword or launching some trusty orbs.

Before we go into debate, I am going to say that being a good caster is alright, but really HP damage is the only sure way to kill most things. Why bother with a SoS when channeling a spell while casting a second level spell (Wraith Strike, or something to improve damage/round) will guarantee a kill a vast majority of the time.

Also, full attack channeled Slay living/Shivering Touch will give you about 2 to an infinite amount more Save Or Dies/Save Or Sucks that round than a Wizard trying something similar.

[SilentNight]

A bit obvious but strange, Duelist 3/Warblade 17//Psion/wizard.

Int to damage and other abilities plus full maneuvers and full spellcasting.

[Greyfeld85]

No, but it adds to the hit ratio of spells that aren't high failure percentage SoS. With the increased difficulty of the gestalt campaign, you sure as hell have to have something better to do that trying to Slay Living a creature with 40+ con. Like swinging a sword or launching some trusty orbs.

Before we go into debate, I am going to say that being a good caster is alright, but really HP damage is the only sure way to kill most things. Why bother with a SoS when channeling a spell while casting a second level spell (Wraith Strike, or something to improve damage/round) will guarantee a kill a vast majority of the time.

Also, full attack channeled Slay living/Shivering Touch will give you about 2 to an infinite amount more Save Or Dies/Save Or Sucks that round than a Wizard trying something similar.

LOL ok, so you're not joking, you just have no idea what you're talking about.

Well, I'm not going to argue the case, because I don't want to derail this thread any further. If somebody else wants to, however, I won't stop them.

[Snowbluff]

LOL ok, so you're not joking, you just have no idea what you're talking about.


Bard/DiscipleofDispater4/UrPriest2/SublimeChord1/MysticTheurge9 on Duskblade13/DiscipleofDispater+4

So. What we got here is full channeling. And some spellcasting classes. With 9th levels spells. Take Lightning Maces, and Roundabout Kick. Your weapon of choice is a Keen Aptitude High Crit Weapon.

When you crit, you get 2 more attacks. You're critting more than 50% of the time. You'll be getting more attacks than you can use. In the infinite sense. Like infinite. You can't multiply that by zero to get rid of it. You need L'Hopitals rule or someone to die to end that. Every one of those hits is a Save or Die/Suck (hopefully one of the eventually kill someone with enough hits). Even if you failed and choice a SoD the target is immune to, it's still going to die.

Even if you don't agree with me, I do know enough to kill something, right? :smallamused:

[Kuulvheysoon]

A bit obvious but strange, Duelist 3/Warblade 17//Psion/wizard.

Int to damage and other abilities plus full maneuvers and full spellcasting.

Hope you mean Swashbuckler 3/Warblade 17//Wizard 2/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 10/Legacy Champion 5, or something along those lines. (though the reading of Legacy Champion is kind of dubious...)

One combination I quite enjoy is Warblade 20//Psion 8/Incarnate 2/Soul Manifester 10. Double 9s, Double Stance and Incarnum goodies.

[Wings of Peace]

Here's what I don't get, generic classes are written as a replacement for the ENTIRE class system, it even says that it's not supposed to be mixed, and from time to time I still see it in builds.

This is actually incorrect. It's the same as Theurging in Gestalt, discouraged but not disallowed.


If you use these generic classes, you shouldn't also use the standard character classes (or variants of those classes).

[Darth Stabber]

This is actually incorrect. It's the same as Theurging in Gestalt, discouraged but not disallowed.

Okay, fair enough. I still think it's ridiculous to use it, but I guess that makes it RAW.

[Menteith]

Okay, fair enough. I still think it's ridiculous to use it, but I guess that makes it RAW.

Why, out of curiosity? The Generic Spellcaster is strong, but is always a spell level behind the Wizard, even with its excellent spell/skill selection. If I remember correctly, that and the Beguiler are the only Int based, spontaneous, full casters - it's just another option that helps me realize a build. What do you find ridiculous about using it?

[Menteith]

EDIT - Double Post

[Darth Stabber]

Why, out of curiosity? The Generic Spellcaster is strong, but is always a spell level behind the Wizard, even with its excellent spell/skill selection. If I remember correctly, that and the Beguiler are the only Int based, spontaneous, full casters - it's just another option that helps me realize a build. What do you find ridiculous about using it?

I don't find it ridiculous in the broken sense (though with generic spellcaster and warrior on the table sorcerer and fighter are a thing of the past). I am speaking more in the sense of being out of context. They are made to be a replacement for the existing class system, not just more classes. Hence it's a variant rule, replacing not supplementing. Now if you wanted to take one to the exclusion of taking traditional classes, I would see no problem, even if the rest of the party isn't using the variant.

[Wubs]

Tactician 8/Leaching Psyche 1+//Factotum 8+

You now can copy everything, echo it to others, and have enough standard actions to do it rapidly. Love Leaching Psyche mimicking class abilities, as well as monster ones is awesome.

[Darth Stabber]

Ogre barbarian5/fighter2/hulking hurler3/warhulk10//LA+RHD6/psywar2/swordsage2/barbarian10.

Plays to the ogre's strengths, no pun intended. Psywar is there to grab expansion and 2 bonus feats, swordsage to grab some toys. The rest is just brutal face smashing, in the most obvious manner imaginable. Might swap crusader for swordsage to get access to lock down tools, since I am already big and have reach (especially with expansion).

Pixie wizard7/loremaster9/archmage4//LA4/factotum16

Nothing too fancy, just using the awesome of pixie with the goodness of wizard//factotum, delaying cunning surge a tad, but it's still good at 12, and pixie gives more than enough good things to justify the wait.

[Aeryr]

I am a fan of swift hunter // psychic warrior they make great archers

[Salanmander]

I have to second the "Master of Many Forms with anything" vote. I've always been a huge fan of shapeshifting in the first place, and gestalt gives delicious versatility to the archetype. Some highlights:

MoMF//Swordsage: What's scarier than a gibbering mouther with more hit dice and an awesome grapple check? One that can TELEPORT!

MoMF//Incarnate(or totemist): You're not using your item slots anyway, and MoMF rarely uses swift actions, so the incarnum side is essentially entirely passive.

MoMF//Factotum: Yup, they go with anything, they go with each other! As a shapeshifter you don't really need...stats..., so you can spend a lot of effort boosting int. Ever wanted to see a shambling mound disable a trap? Now you can!

[khalathas]

Greyfeld, you're basically ignoring the awesome fact that duskblade13 acts as a very large spell MULTIPLIER. Couple it with wraithstrike, the twf chain (if you can find a way to afford it), and perhaps a couple speed weapons you can cast a spell once, and apply it quite a few times over for a single slot. Admittedly this is has limits on what spells work (healing/buffing spells + saps are nice for party too), but the goal isn't to gimp the wizard, its to expand on action/spell efficiency. Honestly a wizard is so good that he stands on his own without the need for gestalt, so tacking ANYTHING on makes him better, not worse. The abjurant champion is a natural fit without any need to build for it, and the Iot7 is an option if you don't go TWF, due to feat intensity. However, your options really aren't reduced by giving him full channeling, they're just altered.

[Greyfeld85]

Greyfeld, you're basically ignoring the awesome fact that duskblade13 acts as a very large spell MULTIPLIER. Couple it with wraithstrike, the twf chain (if you can find a way to afford it), and perhaps a couple speed weapons you can cast a spell once, and apply it quite a few times over for a single slot. Admittedly this is has limits on what spells work (healing/buffing spells + saps are nice for party too), but the goal isn't to gimp the wizard, its to expand on action/spell efficiency. Honestly a wizard is so good that he stands on his own without the need for gestalt, so tacking ANYTHING on makes him better, not worse. The abjurant champion is a natural fit without any need to build for it, and the Iot7 is an option if you don't go TWF, due to feat intensity. However, your options really aren't reduced by giving him full channeling, they're just altered.

I'm not denying that expanding the duskblade's spell list makes him a better duskblade. I'm simply saying that turning the wizard into a beatstick makes him a worse wizard.

"Expanded options" only matter when the new options are just as good as your current options. Taking the action economy into account, whacking things with a weapon instead of casting spells is strictly a worse set of combat options.

Again, please understand that I'm not saying you couldn't or shouldn't create this gestalt and use it essentially as an expanded duskblade. I'm just saying that I, personally, would feel like a gimped wizard in such a situation.

[Darth Stabber]

I'm not denying that expanding the duskblade's spell list makes him a better duskblade. I'm simply saying that turning the wizard into a beatstick makes him a worse wizard.

"Expanded options" only matter when the new options are just as good as your current options. Taking the action economy into account, whacking things with a weapon instead of casting spells is strictly a worse set of combat options.

Again, please understand that I'm not saying you couldn't or shouldn't create this gestalt and use it essentially as an expanded duskblade. I'm just saying that I, personally, would feel like a gimped wizard in such a situation.

Besides Archivist is a better for mixing with duskblade. you can wear your armor, and the cleric list has better touch spells. You still could be considered a "gimped archivist", but going into beatdown mode is generally more of a divine option in the first place.

Also at some point I want to play in a party that is Wizard//Factotum, Archivist//Factotum, and Warblade//Factotum. Unleashing the genius beatdown.

[Snowbluff]

Again, please understand that I'm not saying you couldn't or shouldn't create this gestalt and use it essentially as an expanded duskblade. I'm just saying that I, personally, would feel like a gimped wizard in such a situation.

Dude, I multiplied by (the almost) infinity. Getting the closest thing to making something fail a SoD with no margin for failure is definitely adding to the capability of the class. You probably have lots of way of getting that initial hit to start the combo as a wizard.


Besides Archivist is a better for mixing with duskblade. you can wear your armor, and the cleric list has better touch spells. You still could be considered a "gimped archivist", but going into beatdown mode is generally more of a divine option in the first place.

Also at some point I want to play in a party that is Wizard//Factotum, Archivist//Factotum, and Warblade//Factotum. Unleashing the genius beatdown.

Yeah, but it was just an example. Your suggestion is definitely better. I like Clerics.

Anyway, my insane built definitely got both Divine and Arcane spells, at the cost of practicality. It was terribly MAD.

[Rubik]

If LA is on one side I like dvati 1 ghost 5/something 14 // initiator class gestalt 20.

That way you can possess two really nasty creatures and unleash two maneuvers every round.

[Greyfeld85]

Dude, I multiplied by (the almost) infinity. Getting the closest thing to making something fail a SoD with no margin for failure is definitely adding to the capability of the class. You probably have lots of way of getting that initial hit to start the combo as a wizard.

I'm sorry, but I read through this four times, and I still don't understand what it is you're implying or trying to say.

[IthroZada]

Two Gestalt combinations I've been really wanting to make, are a Warlock//Unarmed Swordsage using Eldritch Claws and the Tiger Claw maneuvers, mostly take utility invocations.

The second is a Cavalier//Summoner. If you can get the mount and summon to combine, awesome, if you can't, then you have a mount and a flanking buddy. Or a mount and magically summoned suit of armor making you Kamen Rider.

[Greyfeld85]

Two Gestalt combinations I've been really wanting to make, are a Warlock//Unarmed Swordsage using Eldritch Claws and the Tiger Claw maneuvers, mostly take utility invocations.

The second is a Cavalier//Summoner. If you can get the mount and summon to combine, awesome, if you can't, then you have a mount and a flanking buddy. Or a mount and magically summoned suit of armor making you Kamen Rider.

I wanted to do Bard/Crusader//Warlock for the same reason, but then I realized that being limited to two natural attacks per turn would probably cause the character to deal less than maximum damage around the time he gets Haste.

Not to mention Snowflake Wardance would have to be houseruled to work with natural attacks, and you wouldn't get the damage bonuses from the Crystal Echoblade.

[Deox]

I think another fun gestalt combo would be something like an uberUBER mount:

Halfling Paladin / Beastmaster / Ashworm Dragoon / Halfling Outrider // Druid

My gaming group was not amused.

[Fyermind]

Just as a note: Paladin doesn't mix with incarnate or druid due to alignment restrictions without houserules. Incarnate is so alignment based a double extreme incarnate makes very little sense and a true neutral one make none at all.

My favorite gestalts:

Divine Bard // Psychic warrior
Take zen archery, use feats for DFI and IC optimization, and bonus feats to maximize shots/round and decrease range penalties
This build creates some wonderful archers with a little prestige class action and they boost all their allies at the same time for even more win.

Warforged Psion (shaper)//Warblade Every attack is poisoned, you are immune, so no risk of failure. Focus on making lots of attacks/round

What you wanted to be // Feat rogue 2 (if the feats use the same progression as fighter feats) / psychic warrior 2 / fighter 2 / the prestige class(es) you wanted to be
Get an extra six fighter bonus feats of your choice, or 4 fighter feats and 2 psionic ones. As a plus get a little power point pool and the ability to take psionic feats and gain a psionic focus. This is a great one for taking an existing build and making it gestalt. It probably isn't the greatest, but that is almost as many bonus feats as you were intended to get in your whole career, so it should allow some real development of your strengths.
Most feats are also passive, so if you have a class that eats actions for breakfast, this may be for you.

[Deox]

Just as a note: Paladin doesn't mix with incarnate or druid due to alignment restrictions without houserules.

Alignments usually cause tons of headaches at our table - we don't use them really.

[Snowbluff]

I'm sorry, but I read through this four times, and I still don't understand what it is you're implying or trying to say.

Okay, I'll break it down for you.

At 13 Duskblade gets full Arcane Channeling. Every melee hit they make in a turn applies the channeled spell.

Disciple of Dispater + Improved Crit on a high-crit weapon (or even something broken, like the Ninja-to, which always gives infinites hits due to a typo) gives a greater than 50% crit threat.

Lightning Maces gives you an additional attack every time you threaten a crit.

Roundabout Kick gives you a hit every time you confirm a crit.

So, when you swing your Aptitude weapon, you have a higher than 50% chance to crit, which generates 2 more attacks. Each of those has a greater 50% chance of triggering an additional attack. So on and so forth. You get a lot of attacks.

Each of those casts a Slay Living (for example, you probably have a better spell) on the target when they hit. Since the target is having to roll the save so many times, he is going to roll a one eventually. When he does, the spell will kill him, even if the DC is too low to normally cause a death.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Okay, I'll break it down for you.

At 13 Duskblade gets full Arcane Channeling. Every melee hit they make in a turn applies the channeled spell.

Disciple of Dispater + Improved Crit on a high-crit weapon (or even something broken, like the Ninja-to, which always gives infinites hits due to a typo) gives a greater than 50% crit threat.

Lightning Maces gives you an additional attack every time you threaten a crit.

Roundabout Kick gives you a hit every time you confirm a crit.

So, when you swing your Aptitude weapon, you have a higher than 50% chance to crit, which generates 2 more attacks. Each of those has a greater 50% chance of triggering an additional attack. So on and so forth. You get a lot of attacks.

Each of those casts a Slay Living (for example, you probably have a better spell) on the target when they hit. Since the target is having to roll the save so many times, he is going to roll a one eventually. When he does, the spell will kill him, even if the DC is too low to normally cause a death.

You forgot one of the best parts- all those saves? Off of a single casting of Slay Living.

[kardar233]

I wanted to do Bard/Crusader//Warlock for the same reason, but then I realized that being limited to two natural attacks per turn would probably cause the character to deal less than maximum damage around the time he gets Haste.

Not to mention Snowflake Wardance would have to be houseruled to work with natural attacks, and you wouldn't get the damage bonuses from the Crystal Echoblade.

Ahem. I did post this guy earlier:

Bard4/Spirit Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian1/Shou Disciple1/Warblade14//Warlock6/Cloistered Cleric1/Prestige Paladin2/Hellfire Warlock3/Legacy Champion8

You'll be feat-strapped as you'll need PrC prereqs, optimally Dragonwrought, Eldritch Claws, Beast Strike (from Dragon #355, add claw damage to unarmed strikes), Dragonfire Inspiration, (Improved) Rapidstrike and Song of the White Raven. If you can pull it all off (you'll definitely need flaws) you'll be chucking 40+d6 worth of damage on every single hit of your 9-10 hit full attack.

[Greyfeld85]

Okay, I'll break it down for you.

At 13 Duskblade gets full Arcane Channeling. Every melee hit they make in a turn applies the channeled spell.

Disciple of Dispater + Improved Crit on a high-crit weapon (or even something broken, like the Ninja-to, which always gives infinites hits due to a typo) gives a greater than 50% crit threat.

Lightning Maces gives you an additional attack every time you threaten a crit.

Roundabout Kick gives you a hit every time you confirm a crit.

So, when you swing your Aptitude weapon, you have a higher than 50% chance to crit, which generates 2 more attacks. Each of those has a greater 50% chance of triggering an additional attack. So on and so forth. You get a lot of attacks.

Each of those casts a Slay Living (for example, you probably have a better spell) on the target when they hit. Since the target is having to roll the save so many times, he is going to roll a one eventually. When he does, the spell will kill him, even if the DC is too low to normally cause a death.

Aside from the fact that Slay Living is a Cleric spell, not a Wizard spell (effectively rendering this entire discussion moot, because the argument was about a duskblade//wizard build), you're effectively telling me that beating somebody in the face over and over again to try and trigger a low-DC SoD is better than say, oh...

Running away. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleportGreater.htm)
REALLY running away. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm)
Turning everybody into a vegetable. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holdPersonMass.htm)
Making the world all groovy. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prismaticSpray.htm)
Or just letting something else do the dirty work for you. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterVII.htm)

Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting and effective tactic. But it will never be better than just locking down the whole battlefield at once.

[HunterOfJello]

Beguiler//Warblade while focusing on Int and Concentration while ignoring strength.

The character was a forest gnome would could do very heavy damage using concentration damage maneuvers along with having a number of other very resourceful utility maneuvers.


At one point he used Dominate Monster to control a TRex in a Jurasic Park setting. He also used illusions to make a large number of dangerous dinosaurs all attack one another. He was actually quite a bit more OP than I had intended.

[Rubik]

My all-time favorite is shaper 5/3.5 constructor 9/astral zealot 6 // factotum 8/totemist 2/damned near anything else 10 (any good suggestions for the last 10 levels there?). (Use the Favored Contact feat for early-entry into constructor, then retrain or PsyRef it out. Also take Linked Power and don't bother with the last level in constructor.) You're the ultimate in utility, and will never ever ever be useless in any situation.

I also have one that's always using shapeshifting, and thus qualifies for all sorts of ACFs and racial PrCs and feats. It's society mind 20 // changeling ACF rogue 1/factotum 3/unarmed swordsage 1/thrallherd 1/bard 1/illithid savant 3/sublime chord 2/marshal 1/illithid savant 7. I'm using illithid savant to grab erudite power learning & spell-to-power, metamind's font of power class features, and all sorts of other goodies to add to my society mind abilities (note that I didn't grab the UPPD "class feature," so I can spontaneously cast any spell or manifest any power at any time, with an infinite pp reserve via font of power and the Temporal Reiteration power). I grabbed the Magic Mantle as well. With all the extras I got through Gating in creatures, using Fusion, and Astral Seed, I broke the epic cap with lvl 20 xp (I now have 44 HD and all the abilities of a hagunemnon -- go me!). This is very TO though.

The latter has about 590 feats, 870-some skill points, and a light load of just shy of 100 quadrillion pounds. He can cast every non-epic spell and manifest every non-epic power in the entire game, and can spontaneously create and cast any epic spell he can think of (he has just over 700,000 believers using the Epic table for Leadership, and uses them in a fast-time demiplane to sacrifice spell slots for Spellcraft DC reduction, and several extra hive-minded bodies there, so he can create and spontaneously cast any epic spell he wants).

[Salanmander]

Each of those casts a Slay Living (for example, you probably have a better spell) on the target when they hit. Since the target is having to roll the save so many times, he is going to roll a one eventually. When he does, the spell will kill him, even if the DC is too low to normally cause a death.

Despite the fact that I love duskblade and do actually believe that it can situationally amplify wizard power, I'm obliged to point out that this doesn't actually work:


...the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round.

It will affect everyone you hit, but each creature only once. Duskblades are great for having a lot of reach and essentially turning a touch spell into a selective burst spell, but it doesn't work for spamming one person with many castings of the same thing.

[Snowbluff]

It will affect everyone you hit, but each creature only once. Duskblades are great for having a lot of reach and essentially turning a touch spell into a selective burst spell, but it doesn't work for spamming one person with many castings of the same thing.

Good point, but the initial large number of attacks made as the full attack all proc the touch spell. On the other hand, this wording is too short for me to make any decisive conclusions on RAI so I'll drop this tangent.

[Greyfeld85]

Despite the fact that I love duskblade and do actually believe that it can situationally amplify wizard power, I'm obliged to point out that this doesn't actually work:



It will affect everyone you hit, but each creature only once. Duskblades are great for having a lot of reach and essentially turning a touch spell into a selective burst spell, but it doesn't work for spamming one person with many castings of the same thing.

This is a highly debated topic that has been contested ever since the original printing of the Duskblade class, and has never been given an official errata by WOTC for the sake of clarification. Fact is, a lot of DMs rule that the wording supports hitting the same target multiple times with the same casting.

I don't want to derail this topic for the sake of this discussion, I just felt the need to point out that there isn't any actual consensus of what the RAW or RAI of that ability is.

[Silva Stormrage]

My personal favorite is Dread Necromancer 20//Paladin of Tyranny 2/Hexblade 3/Horned Harbinger 10/Fighter 2/Blackgaurd 3

It has a ludicrous amount of Undead under it's control (As Horned Harbinger adds Charisma to caster level for controlling undead and it's capstone is increasing the standard Animate Undead HD cap to 10/Caster Level).

So you end up getting
Charisma *3 to saves
Undead HD equal to (10+Charisma Modifier) * (Caster Level + Charisma Modifier)
Double that if you have a Rod of Undead Mastery.

And those within 10ft of you take -4 to saving throws.

You don't NEEED that many undead but it also makes for a Fun BBEG paired with a Persisted Aura of Terror Spell. A Terrifying Warlord of Death!

[Zathyr]

Druid 20//Wizard 3/Geomancer 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7 is super-fun and flavorful. And one of the few times Geomancer actually increases the power of a build.

Interesting. I had a similar gestalt build I always liked the idea of, but never played. Well, similar in mechanics, but the flavor was completely different: Archivist//Wizard/Geomancer/War Weaver.

I always liked the Eldritch Tapestry feature of the War Weaver especially if you advance it with something like a bloodline or Legacy Champion, and with the ability to cast all the nifty Archivist spells through it, it makes for a hugely powerful party buffer. With that many spells you don't really need the spell economy it grants you, but the action-economy in combat opens up all sorts of fun tactics, not to mention how dang-near indestructible you can make your party. :)