Incarnate Construct + Dustform = Free boost?

[Jigokuro]

Putting the 2 together you get +2-2=0 LA and a number of benefits if it works.
Properly layering both you'd have:
+4 str
-2 dex
+3 nat armor
DR 5/magic
and despite no longer being dust, +8 hide in dusty/sandy places, somehow.
All that without any penalty, probably; the potential errors are twofold.
1) lose all SAs/SQs. The ones from dustform are meh but this means a lot of base races are out. Are a human's bonus feat/skills SQs?
2) maybe being totally blind. Dusform gains blindsight 60 and are other wise blind. The blindness, however, is only mentioned in the blindsight SQ entry, so it becomes a matter of interpretation whether 'lose all SQs' means 'lose blindsight and be blind' or 'go back to normal vision.'
I initially figured this as a TO, but thinking about it this isn't even to crazy to actually try to use in a game. Incarnate construct is just a spell, it isn't hard to believe a do-gooder wizard goes around finding dustform humans and returning them to true life... ok a little bit hard, but hard sells have been made.
So, what say ye? Melee needs nice things, after all.

[Aeryr]

Well if I were to be an ass and read that combination I'll say that...


A critical hit with a bludgeoning weapon forces the dustform creature to make a Will save to remain cohesive; otherwise it dissolves into lifeless dust again. The DC for the Will save is equal to 10 + damage dealt.

is not listed as SA nor a SQ so you are so keeping that, it hope it's worth it, you might want immunity to bludgeoning but... I can't think of anything but the snowflake ooze.

[Boci]

Well if I were to be an ass and read that combination I'll say that...



is not listed as SA nor a SQ so you are so keeping that, it hope it's worth it, you might want immunity to bludgeoning but... I can't think of anything but the snowflake ooze.

Immunity to crits however isn't impossibly to get.

[Flickerdart]

Since a Dustform creature is already a Construct and thus immune to crits, that won't help you.

[Jigokuro]

Well that is terrifying. Bludgeoning weapons tend to have x4 crits too, so there is no making that save.
I'd still like a ruling on the blindness though. (and human's bonus feat being a SQ or not, though I'm pretty sure it isn't.)

Edit: Improved Mettle would save you, as incredibly esoteric as that is.

[Flickerdart]

No such thing as Improved Mettle, and even if there were, it would only affect save for half effects.

If the blindness is part of the special quality, you lose the blindness too.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Maug and Warforged with 2 +1 LA templates are generally considered to be the cheesy powerful things to do with incarnate construct.

[Jigokuro]

No such thing as Improved Mettle, and even if there were, it would only affect save for half effects.

I say esoteric for a reason, it is only in one place, and that place isn't even a class; Complete Champion page 142, Tabard of Valor. Short version, under half health you gain mettle, if you already have mettle gain improved mettle.
You are right about it not helping, however.

[mregecko]

No such thing as Improved Mettle, and even if there were, it would only affect save for half effects.

If the blindness is part of the special quality, you lose the blindness too.

There actually is an improved mettle, just on an epic Prestige Class (Void Incarnate)...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a

And for the record, I think there's only one printed version of Mettle that requires "save for half". The majority of them say "Save for partial effect" or "Save for lesser effect", which covers everything from Disintegrate to the Orb spells.

(Mettle is my favorite class ability, heh... Most of my non-caster builds try to get it somehow)

-- Gecko

[Flickerdart]

There actually is an improved mettle, just on an epic Prestige Class (Void Incarnate)...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a

And for the record, I think there's only one printed version of Mettle that requires "save for half". The majority of them say "Save for partial effect" or "Save for lesser effect", which covers everything from Disintegrate to the Orb spells.

(Mettle is my favorite class ability, heh... Most of my non-caster builds try to get it somehow)

-- Gecko
That's not Mettle - it doesn't hit Will saves, so it's even more useless than normal.

[mregecko]

That's not Mettle - it doesn't hit Will saves, so it's even more useless than normal.

Read moar:

Improved Mettle of Fortitude (Ex):
Improved Mettle of Will (Ex):

It just splits it up into the component saves and distributes it over 10 levels.

[Aeryr]

Wow that's interesting, improved mettle.


By 8th level, if subjected to an effect that allows a Fortitude save for a partial or half effect, the void incarnate takes only the partial or half effect on a failed save (and no effect on a successful save, just as with mettle of fortitude).

It still won't work though, there is no save for a partial or half effect.

Ps. I quoted the wrong one :smallredface: well improved mettle of will doesn't either protect against it.

[Urpriest]

You likely wouldn't be blind: on the rules side, the blindness is only mentioned in the SQ: entry. On the fluff side, Incarnate Construct is about turning you into a normal humanoid/giant "real boy" and gives eyes to normal golems, so it has the ability to create eyes.

[Jigokuro]

Also that is an epic class, out of most scopes lol. The tabard lets you (sometimes) get Imp mettle even in E6, which is pretty cool (full BAB 5/Pious Templar 1). The wording given is terrible because it tries to abbreviate for space in a you-know-what-we-mean kind of way, which is awful given the RAW/RAI debates even when things are 'clear,' but if taken the 'RAI' way (so the wording from void initiate, which is delightfully clear) it is a terrific item for anyone that can't handle their hp well.

@hand; Living Muag is hilarious, hadn't though about using it on warforged though...

Back on topic:
What races would like this the most (crit autodeath aside)? Still looking for a decisive y/n on human bonus feat=SQ, but if it isn't they'd be good. Catfolk (on my mind atm) would become downright scary chargers with their free pounce. The anthropomorphic baleen whale* TO would get, uh, TO-er, lol. Can't seem to think of others atm...
*that reminds me, the NA limit on IC is +9 not +3 for large+ so they'd benefit the full +5 from dustform.

[Jigokuro]

You likely wouldn't be blind: on the rules side, the blindness is only mentioned in the SQ: entry. On the fluff side, Incarnate Construct is about turning you into a normal humanoid/giant "real boy" and gives eyes to normal golems, so it has the ability to create eyes.
Thank you.
My thoughts exactly. Glad to have such a respected lawyer agree.

[TuggyNE]

Well that is terrifying. Bludgeoning weapons tend to have x4 crits too, so there is no making that save.

What? No. All the SRD weapons with x4 crits deal piercing damage (one, the scythe, also deals slashing). I can only find two bludgeoning weapons (one exotic) that even have x3 crits.



</uselessNitpick> :smallsigh:

[Jigokuro]

What? No. All the SRD weapons with x4 crits deal piercing damage (one, the scythe, also deals slashing). I can only find two bludgeoning weapons (one exotic) that even have x3 crits.

</uselessNitpick> :smallsigh:

Huh, well the only one I was thinking of when I said that was the minotaur greatmaul, since most other bludgeoning weapons kinda suck.

[Soranar]

Actually it could be even more abusable than that.

Nothing says you can only do it once...

dustform (+4 STR, -2 DEX)

Incarnate

repeat until you get sick of it (dustform can't reduce your DEX below 3 anyway)

go hulking hurler?

[Aeryr]

You might want to check the rite of rebirth, from races of the dragon, if I remember correctly it mentions specifically the bonus feat of humans when applying a "template" to them. I am AFB atm so... sorry.

[Flickerdart]

You might want to check the rite of rebirth, from races of the dragon, if I remember correctly it mentions specifically the bonus feat of humans when applying a "template" to them. I am AFB atm so... sorry.
What does that have to do with anything? The rules for acquiring the Dragonborn template are unique to that template.