Invisible Cloud of Knives Shenanigans

[Yuukale]

Guys, I was thinking over Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4571.msg69397#msg69397) about how to better exploit the Cloud of Knives spell and I came up with a doubt:

How would it behave under the "invisible spell" metamagic?

Since the enemy won't see the attack until it hits, wouldn't he get flat footed as well? (Thus dropping the AC further...)

and, Cptnq pointed out that: "it's 30ft range. Within the range of sneak attack. Crap on a stick. That could get ugly FAST."

So... Ideas? Builds? Do I see sorcerer/incantatrix/arcane prc with sneak attack progression?

[Flickerdart]

It would not make the target flat-footed, unless the person firing the invisible knives is also invisible. The only invisible projectile rules I know of are in the Ballisteer, which says:


Invisible Shot (Sp): By expending 1 power point per shot, the ballisteer makes his fired ammo invisible. This provides the ballisteer a bonus of +2 to hit and denies the target the ability to deflect the attack through normal means, unless it has the ability to detect invisible objects. This ability is applied as the attack is made.

So you'd get, at best, a +2 bonus on the shot, and at worst nothing because the rules don't say you get anything.

[Darrin]

How would it behave under the "invisible spell" metamagic?


Is there any spell that provides an answer to this question that isn't "Divide By Cucumber" or "The DM is giving me that 'Better Get a Fresh Character Sheet' Look"?

[Emperor Tippy]

Is there any spell that provides an answer to this question that isn't "Divide By Cucumber" or "The DM is giving me that 'Better Get a Fresh Character Sheet' Look"?
Fireball and a few of the other blaster type spells.

Most anything else is a question left up to your DM.

[Shadowknight12]

An invisible cloud of knives? You shall be the best chef ever.

[Yuukale]

if a summoned creature is invisible, why not the knives? and since the opponent can't even see that I have a weapon aimed at him (unlees he has magic sight or see invisibility) he's surprised, thus, flat-footed.
And since he can't possibly know (without knowing the spell or the methods above) that I have plenty more, he's FF to any attack made by these knives.

Oh, and there's no way to tell that "I" am the one attacking him cuz it's a free action mental command. Might as well be a ghost or someone else invisible...

[Flickerdart]

if a summoned creature is invisible, why not the knives? and since the opponent can't even see that I have a weapon aimed at him (unlees he has magic sight or see invisibility) he's surprised, thus, flat-footed.
And since he can't possibly know (without knowing the spell or the methods above) that I have plenty more, he's FF to any attack made by these knives.

Oh, and there's no way to tell that "I" am the one attacking him cuz it's a free action mental command. Might as well be a ghost or someone else invisible...
By the rules, you're not invisible, so they aren't flat-footed, regardless of whether they can see you're attacking them or not. Ballisteer's ability further confirms that invisible attacks are not good enough to give flat-footed. And since daggers thrown by an invisible creature stop being invisible but still deny DEX to AC, it's pretty clear that the visibility or lack thereof of projectiles has no effect on denying DEX. So you can argue fluff, but by crunch you have no foot to stand on.