Widest threat range?

[Snowbluff]

So. I like melee guys. Crit fishers especially. So, what can I do to get the widest threat range possible, for like Blood in the Water.

[Jodah]

I was recently able to get 9-20 without much effort by using kukri (scimitar would work too, but I was using TWF, and didn't have space for oversized). Disciple of dispater 8 gets you x3, improved crit (explicitly called out as stacking) gets you x2, D&D multiplication 3 x 2 = 4 so 18-20 becomes 9-20. I am personally unaware of any item in 3.5 that has a higher crit range, but in 3.0 there was a bladed gauntlet with 17-20 which would be 5-20 if applied to the same build.

happy critting.

[Gnome Alone]

So. I like melee guys. Crit fishers especially. So, what can I do to get the widest threat range possible, for like Blood in the Water.

I think it's just the Keen enhancement or the Improved Critical feat on a weapon with a high natural range. So, like a keen falchion for 15-20. If there's not anything better than 18-20 naturally, then I believe that's your best bet. Or like TWFing keen kukris on a rogue. I'm currently playing a duskblade with a keen falchion, and it's pretty fun.

You could also try finding a group that's either 3.0 or DMed by the insane, that lets Keen and Improved Critical stack on an 18-20 weapon for the ludicrous 9-20 range. I mean, logically they should stack, but on the other hand, 9-20.

[kardar233]

The crit range stacking rules aren't quite as permissive as y'all think: An 18-20 crit range consists of 18, 19, and 20, being three numbers. Doubled, that makes it six numbers, making it 15-20. Adding another doubling would triple it to nine numbers, giving you a 12-20 threat range.

Disciple of Dispater can get you up to 12-20 (though Curmudgeon disputes this based on primary sources and 3.0->3.5 conversion). The Hero's Blade spell from Eberron Campaign Setting doubles your threat range and explicitly stacks with Improved Critical, though I'm not sure if that would have the same problem as Disciple of Dispater.

Psychic Weapon Master is a pretty awful PrC but it can get you an extra two numbers on your crit range.

[Water_Bear]

I've always felt Dolorous Blow [Spell Compendium] is much better than Keen; not everyone can get access to Sor/Wiz spells and it has a duration of minutes per level, but the fact that it automatically confirms critical hits is helpful.

Getting an Eternal Wand [Magic Item Compendium] of it is probably the best bet for a non-caster, while Rangers/Paladins should use Sword of the Arcane Order [Champions of Valor] and prepare it.

Put that on an 18-20 weapon and don't forget the Greater Truedeath (/Destruction) Weapon Crystal [Magic Item Compendium] so that you can make critical hits on Undead (/Constructs). Add Cursespeweing (+3) and/or Enervating (+2) from the same book and enjoy handing out -4 Penalties and Negative Levels like ticker tape on VE Day. :smallcool:

As for stacking critical range increases, I don't know about anything better than Disciple of Dispater but I'm pretty sure it exists. Work that Google-Fu and you have a good shot of finding some prior thread dealing with that same issue.

Hope that helps, and good hunting. :smallamused:

[kardar233]

The best on-crit weapon effect is Prismatic Burst (MIC). It's pricey (IIRC it's 60,000) but it doesn't count as a +X enhancement, meaning it's fairly cheap at high levels, relatively speaking. Basically it hits them with one of the Prismatic rays, which is pretty nice. Cursespewing is also a favourite.

I've heard about Sudden Stunning out of DMGII, but I don't have that book. Apparently it's nasty.

[Snowbluff]

I was recently able to get 9-20 without much effort by using kukri (scimitar would work too, but I was using TWF, and didn't have space for oversized). Disciple of dispater 8 gets you x3, improved crit (explicitly called out as stacking) gets you x2, D&D multiplication 3 x 2 = 4 so 18-20 becomes 9-20. I am personally unaware of any item in 3.5 that has a higher crit range, but in 3.0 there was a bladed gauntlet with 17-20 which would be 5-20 if applied to the same build.

happy critting.

Cool, this looks like the best option here.


I've always felt Dolorous Blow [Spell Compendium] is much better than Keen; not everyone can get access to Sor/Wiz spells and it has a duration of minutes per level, but the fact that it automatically confirms critical hits is helpful.

Put that on an 18-20 weapon and don't forget the Greater Truedeath (/Destruction) Weapon Crystal [Magic Item Compendium] so that you can make critical hits on Undead (/Constructs). Add Cursespeweing (+3) and/or Enervating (+2) from the same book and enjoy handing out -4 Penalties and Negative Levels like ticker tape on VE Day. :smallcool:

Hope that helps, and good hunting. :smallamused:

Yeah, I ran into Dolorous Blow for my last build. Pretty sweet. I might be going gish on this...



The best on-crit weapon effect is Prismatic Burst (MIC). It's pricey (IIRC it's 60,000) but it doesn't count as a +X enhancement, meaning it's fairly cheap at high levels, relatively speaking. Basically it hits them with one of the Prismatic rays, which is pretty nice. Cursespewing is also a favourite.

I've heard about Sudden Stunning out of DMGII, but I don't have that book. Apparently it's nasty.

Ooooh... that's pretty sweet. This will probably go into a Multiweapon Fighter, weapon costs are going to stack up really hard.

Thanks guys. Man, Crit People are good-natured. Tis awesome. /)^3^(\

[Seffbasilisk]

Other crit-notable things:

Material: Kaorti resin

Weapon: Stump-dagger

Spell: Bless Weapon (all crits against evil targets are automatically confirmed.)

[Snowbluff]

Other crit-notable things:

Material: Kaorti resin

Weapon: Stump-dagger

Spell: Bless Weapon (all crits against evil targets are automatically confirmed.)

Kaorti Resin is nice, but doesn't work with Disciple of Dispater, which is based on Fe.

Stump Dagger... I wish is was one-handed rather than light.

[kulosle]

Isn't Book of Vile Darkness 3.0? Was it ever updated? There is a class in Oriental Adventurer called weapons master that gives a +2 to crit range on your favored weapon. I don't know if they kept that in the updated version though.

[*.*.*.*]

I hear the Eviscerator(Libris Mortis) feat in conjunction with crit builds is nice, making all foes shaken when you crit is nice. The question is if it escalates or stays at shaken.

[Jodah]

I have glanced at it again, and you are correct the book is 3.0. That said, there is an unofficial update by Seraph of Babel called Leaflets of Triel that updates it and even addresses common problems like having a hivemind and summon swarm being able to kill pantheons. Dispater is not touched except for the common fixes (expertise adds combat in front, innuendo becomes bluff, that is all). But, because of this, ask your GM.

[Flickerdart]

The 3.5 version of Psychic Weapon Master gives a +2 to crit range if you already have Improved Critical, but it takes a while to get the ability, and it's pretty hard to get into the class, so it isn't terribly worth it unless you really want those extra points.

[marcielle]

Kaorti Resin is nice, but doesn't work with Disciple of Dispater, which is based on Fe.

Stump Dagger... I wish is was one-handed rather than light.

You might be able to get your DM to waive the problem if you told him you wanted to emulate Paimon.

[Aeryr]

Wait...

Why don't you just go 1-20?

1) get a familiar/companion/psicristal/urban companion/animal with at least 4 HD and teach it precision assault team benefit.
2)???
3)Profit Welcome to oozeland land of the oozes.

Beware of falling rocks that kill automatically in your way to oozeland.

[Snowbluff]

Wait...

Why don't you just go 1-20?

1) get a familiar/companion/psicristal/urban companion/animal with at least 4 HD and teach it precision assault team benefit.
2)???
3)Profit Welcome to oozeland land of the oozes.

Beware of falling rocks that kill automatically in your way to oozeland.

I have a 26 HD Companion Familiar Special Mount as my Ubermount in one campaign. What is this 'Precision Assualt Team Benefit' of which you speak? :smallconfused:

[FMArthur]

Ranged weaponry with the Splitting (+3) enhancement will generally trigger criticals more often with an Improved Critical effect even though AFAIK the best threat range on ranged weapons is only a crossbow's 19-20. Hand crossbows are what you'd use for it due to the TWFing. The amount of criticals you'd threaten is 0.4 per shot (0.32 to get only one on a single shot, increased by 0.08 for the 0.04 chance to get two in one shot). The problem is that Disciple of Dispater and Psychic Weapon Master can't help it. It's marginally worse than a 12-20 melee weapon but only costs gold and damage increases (Blood in the Water) wind up applying twice because you get two attacks.

Aptitude Lightning Mace + Roundabout Kick shenanigans may or may not be allowed, but they dramatically enhance any critical-focused character builds to the point of being game-breaking, resulting in criticals generating more attacks than could be expected to NOT produce at least one more critical. Limiting yourself to just one of those feats would at least give the chain reaction decent odds of ending before it kills something. You can only wind up with a runaway train of attacks when your crits generate more than one new attack.

[Morph Bark]

Wait...

Why don't you just go 1-20?

1) get a familiar/companion/psicristal/urban companion/animal with at least 4 HD and teach it precision assault team benefit.
2)???
3)Profit Welcome to oozeland land of the oozes.

Beware of falling rocks that kill automatically in your way to oozeland.

Precision Assault does not stack with itself.

@Snowbluff: It's from Forge of War, an Eberron book.

[Aeryr]

Precision Assault does not stack with itself.

@Snowbluff: It's from Forge of War, an Eberron book.

It doesn't say that it doesn't at any point. How did you reach that conclusion? In fact it uses the plural, as in not a single bonus.


In either event, the bonuses end when the combat ends

[Morph Bark]

It doesn't say that it doesn't at any point. How did you reach that conclusion? In fact it uses the plural, as in not a single bonus.

As per the general rule of a bonus not stacking with itself unless otherwise stated. It saying bonuses instead of bonus is likely because it applies to multiple people rather than just yourself.

[CTrees]

Ninja-to, from Oriental Adventures, has a 19-29/x2 crit range (eleven numbers). Make it Keen, and that should be an 8-29/x2 range.

[Snowbluff]

Ninja-to, from Oriental Adventures, has a 19-29/x2 crit range (eleven numbers). Make it Keen, and that should be an 8-29/x2 range.

I live typos. They make my life go round. Even better, they are one-handed, making them available for power attack.

[Curmudgeon]

AFAIK the best threat range on ranged weapons is only a crossbow's 19-20.
Great crossbows (Races of Stone) threaten on 18-20.

[Chronos]

Ninja-to, from Oriental Adventures, has a 19-29/x2 crit range (eleven numbers). Make it Keen, and that should be an 8-29/x2 range.Man, that would suck if you rolled a natural 30.

[hex0]

Man, that would suck if you rolled a natural 30.

Though crits are nice with a scorpion whip which deals 1d43 damage. :smallwink:

[Snowbluff]

New things I broke!

Crusader: Intergalactic Ninja Assassin! A d2 Crusader that can work by himself!

Crusader.

Feats
Flaw: Combat Reflexes
Flaw: Two-Weapon-Fighting
Human: Weapon Focus (Light Mace)
1:EWP:Ninja-To
3: Lightning Maces
6:
9: Improved Critical (Ninja-To)
12: Martial Stance (Aura of Perfect Order)

You can take an 11 on any attack Roll. Threatening an attack this way gives another hit. You have a guaranteed infinite number of hits. Use an Aptitude Ninja-To.

A non-typo Version would include Disciple of Dispater, and use any high-threat weapon.

[Chronos]

Aura of Perfect Order can only be used once per round. And if you're going to be pulling the Aptitude Lightning Mace trick, you want to be using Blood in the Water for your stance.

[JadePhoenix]

Wow. Abusing typos. Talk about elegant.

[mucco]

I personally think it is a bad idea to use 3.0 material for crit builds, as the rules were quite different IIRC. Disciple of Dispater sounds a bit cheesy to me. But hey, cheese is fun!

[Flickerdart]

Wow. Abusing typos. Talk about elegant.
:smallsigh: They even used a smiley, and still it didn't help.

[Snowbluff]

Aura of Perfect Order can only be used once per round. And if you're going to be pulling the Aptitude Lightning Mace trick, you want to be using Blood in the Water for your stance.

First: Damn. Just take 4 in Disciple of Dispater. Threatening on a one gives infinite attacks. Aura of Perfect Order should add reliability to a non-evil build.

Second: Why would I need Blood in the Water? :smallconfused:


I personally think it is a bad idea to use 3.0 material for crit builds, as the rules were quite different IIRC. Disciple of Dispater sounds a bit cheesy to me. But hey, cheese is fun!

By 'cheese' you mean mundanes getting nice things, then yes, it is fun. Besides, melee builds are the strongest damage dealers in the game anyway. Hey! Remember that guy who shot himself 588 times? Good times...