Pathfinder - My Character, Your Opinion

[DarkHarlequinn7]

So I am in a Pathfinder campaign that seems to be largely a sandbox-type campaign. For the first 4 sessions of this campaign I was doing a lot of hopping from character to character. I just couldn't seem to find the right one that just stuck with me. I believe I have found a concept and build that I like now and wanted to see what you all thought about it.

The group seems to be on the C/G to C/N area of alignment. The members are a Half-Elf/Tiefling Rogue that over the course of these four sessions has managed to accumilate the wealth equal to that of the starting gold of a 15th level character, a gnome bard who just joined up, a human wizard planning to become an Eldrich Knight (I believe he is C/G), and 2 others being played by the dm.

My character is going to be a witch (from the Advanced Player's Guide) because from the moment I discovered the class it had called out to me. The character is a female half-elf and C/N. But this isn't the important bit and the most controversial part of this character.

Because of the massive amounts of gold the rogue in the group has acquired and the notion that the rogue could at any moment steal my own stuff I have worked with the GM to create a system wherein I have equipment that levels up with me. The method I used to do this was taking each level and giving the equipment bonuses based on how much gold a character starting at that level should have. I believe that doing this has eliminated any need for my character to A) carry money to steal and B) compete with the greedy rogue when deciding how to divide gold rewards. My character only asks for 10% of the total bunch to create magic items for the rest of the group.

I am not a power-gamer and I don't particularly mind if my equipment is worse than everyone else's, so long as it is good enough that I can get by. I do have an explanation as to why my character has the unique growing items but I don't want to bore you all with the details unless you think it's important enough to know. I simply want to know if you believe the system will work or if it is doomed to fail. Thanks!

EDIT: This may be a repeat thread, I apologize if it is. I was having technical issues on my end.

[Corlindale]

It could probably work ok, but I personally wouldn't enjoy such a system. You're taking one of the most enjoyable elements out of the game for yourself - the excitement of finding or otherwise acquiring shiny new loot! I think it might become a bit boring to just automatically get the bonuses upon level-up.

Also, about the Rogue problem - are you truly concerned that he is going to try stealing your stuff? The vast majority of groups I've played in or heard of have an unspoken agreement that stealing between party members is a complete no-go, even if you play the most notorious scoundrel in the world. That kind of behaviour just makes the game not fun for everyone - have you talked to your GM about your concerns here?

[Crasical]

What kind of idiot steals from a witch...? That seems like an extremely poor idea, and a great way to get cursed, hexed, and get her familiar to start pooping in your bedroll every night.

[DarkHarlequinn7]

It could probably work ok, but I personally wouldn't enjoy such a system. You're taking one of the most enjoyable elements out of the game for yourself - the excitement of finding or otherwise acquiring shiny new loot! I think it might become a bit boring to just automatically get the bonuses upon level-up.

My concern isn't really about that, I have never really found much fun and excitement in acquiring loot and gold personally, I mostly play Pathfinder for the roleplaying/kicking ass side of things. And above anything else I have adopted this strategy to end a series of feuds regarding the rogue issue.


Also, about the Rogue problem - are you truly concerned that he is going to try stealing your stuff? The vast majority of groups I've played in or heard of have an unspoken agreement that stealing between party members is a complete no-go, even if you play the most notorious scoundrel in the world. That kind of behaviour just makes the game not fun for everyone - have you talked to your GM about your concerns here?

I have spoken to the GM, however he is taking the rogue's side in the group. Essentially he is saying that because the rogue acquired the massive quantities of gold "fairly" that there isn't a problem. And for the record this rogue in question does have a MASSIVE bonus to sleight of hand, stealth, and perception. If the rogue wanted to she could literally steal our clothing and leave us naked without us being able to notice because none of us have a high enough perception.

The other thing is I am the only character in the group who isn't concerned with gaining lots of gold so in this situation I am the odd one out. Because basically the idea here is that if I haven't gained as much gold as her its my fault for not wanting to play a greedy character like everyone else. This is why I have adopted the system in the first place.

[DarkHarlequinn7]

What kind of idiot steals from a witch...? That seems like an extremely poor idea, and a great way to get cursed, hexed, and get her familiar to start pooping in your bedroll every night.

A fairly decent point, however were I to start doing such things it wouldn't be long before the rogue decided to simply kick me out of the group. She was fine without me up until this point and her character wouldn't want to keep someone around like that. Either that or she would leave the group herself creating a much bigger problem: splitting the group.

[marcielle]

Well drama IS a part of roleplaying, but I applaud your efforts. I like to do as much as I can to avoid it as well.
It should be fine. It's basically the same idea as Weapons of Legacy (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5907.0).
WoL had a nice system where, if the item leaves your possession it reverted to a mundane item. That should really disuade that pesky Rogue. If I remember correctly, the usual methods of detect magic and appraise revealed next to nothing.

Also, while he can protest in game, stealing from other party members in a Chaotic group is pretty much the best way to get killed. Just because noone saw him take an item doesn't mean they won't put 2 and 2 together when they realize they recently lost something. In fact, even without seeing him take or have the item, the second they lose something it's gonna be multiple castings of Zone of Truth on the Rogue. And unless he already has permanent minblank, it's unlikely he will be able to steal and run.

[DarkHarlequinn7]

Also, while he can protest in game, stealing from other party members in a Chaotic group is pretty much the best way to get killed. Just because noone saw him take an item doesn't mean they won't put 2 and 2 together when they realize they recently lost something. In fact, even without seeing him take or have the item, the second they lose something it's gonna be multiple castings of Zone of Truth on the Rogue. And unless he already has permanent minblank, it's unlikely he will be able to steal and run.

This is a fair point, and I should have mentioned that the rogue isn't directly stealing (although this is a ticking time bomb), what the rogue does and plans to do is to take a larger share of the loot than the rest of us. She IS very smart, and she is also a powergamer so even if we were to try and kill her we would likely end up getting killed in the process, at which point she will get OUR **** too and our next characters will be even further behind.

If this rogue were to directly steal, there is little we could do about it. Even if we did challenge her we wouldn't get anything out of it because her equipment is so vastly superior to ours that we can't even hope to touch her as we are. But again, I hope at least I have avoided my involvement in this feud by not needing gold.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

well, luckily... by being a witch, you have negated much of the need for magical equipment, that the lesser classes (such as a rogue) REQUIRE to be effective. so your system isnt going to gimp you by any means.

Secondly... your rogue is a moron. If he tries to steal from a tier 1 or 2 full caster, he is asking for a save or die spell... Or, at least, some sort of permanently debilitating effect. Let him steal from you, then cripple him forever.Then laugh at him, and how he has ALL of the gold in the campaign... but can't put it to any use from his crippled/extra-dimensional prison/level-drained to worthlessness/ dead state.

[Larpus]

Indeed, stealing from party members, regardless of alignment is a bad idea, unless there is some specific point in doing so, such as having to steal a specific item in order to pursue personal goals.

Stealing for the lulz?

Dumb, creates unnecessary stress within the group, the feeling that the character is an enemy that needs to be dealt with.

After all, if he/she so gleefully steals gold from everyone, potentially making everyone weaker and more prone to dying in the process, said character is as much of a problem as any big bad the group encounters.

Oh, and as much as powergaming go, there's still luck and roleplay into question. So the Rogue can still roll poorly/the attacker roll amazingly and the Rogue still needs to eat and sleep.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

the other thing is that regardless of how much of a powergamer the rogue is... a full caster WILL ALWAYS win. Well, after level 8-12 or so.

Basically, as long as you play smart(er?), the rogue should never be able to win, regardless of optimization. Spells bend and break reality... Rogues deal damage. Dealing damage doesnt mean a damn thing if you can fly away, be invisible, cast mirror image, or teleport halfway across the world if the poo hits the fan.

Let the rogue have his monies (HOW IS HE CARRYING ALL OF THIS GOLD BTW??) because eventually you'll be casting WISH on a daily basis.

[DarkHarlequinn7]

The biggest problem about this is that when you have a lot of money in pathfinder, there is literally nothing you can't do. Turning invisible? Takes a ring that costs a meager 20k gp. Flying? Easily affordable boots. Wish? perhaps a bit more expensive, but considering the huge amount of gold this person has amassed in such a short time, it wouldn't be out of the question.

The problem here is that anything I can do aside from hexes, she can do better with a fat wallet (by the way, Bag of Holding Type 4 is a hell of an item).

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

The biggest problem about this is that when you have a lot of money in pathfinder, there is literally nothing you can't do. Turning invisible? Takes a ring that costs a meager 20k gp. Flying? Easily affordable boots. Wish? perhaps a bit more expensive, but considering the huge amount of gold this person has amassed in such a short time, it wouldn't be out of the question.

The problem here is that anything I can do aside from hexes, she can do better with a fat wallet (by the way, Bag of Holding Type 4 is a hell of an item).

and you can do all of those things WITHOUT spending a dime. With a modest rod of extend, (3000 gp) you can have your spell durations last longer. Take some Crafting feats. Now, you have all the spells, and can make all the items he has... and more, all well spending HALF that he spends.
So what if your rogue has a ring of invisibility? As soon as he attacks you (or tries too, anyway) he becomes visible, and you win. You have glitterdust, a simple level 2 spell that renders him visible. If he is gaining invisibility from magic items... use spells to detect magic, and he will light up like a Christmas tree. Oh, and you have Improved Invisibility at level 7 or 8. So you can attack, and remain hidden, while he... oh right, tries to deal damage with Sneak Attacks that can be negated by a simple Blur spell. oh, and you're invisible anyway, so it doesn't matter.
Plus you can be flying, while shooting rays, casting save or dies at his glowing, glitterdusted self, and what can he do?

My point being that whatever he can do with money, you can do for free. Whatever he can do, you can easily counter. And you can pick up Craft Wondrous Item and get all his items (and better ones) for half price anyway.

As much as I like Rogues as a staple and archetype of fantasy, they fall easily to the might that is magic. They have weak will and fortitude saves, and are easy prey for your spells. No matter how well equipped, a wizard/witch/Cleric/Sorcerer have a way to counter the rogue.

[DarkHarlequinn7]

and you can do all of those things WITHOUT spending a dime. With a modest rod of extend, (3000 gp) you can have your spell durations last longer. Take some Crafting feats. Now, you have all the spells, and can make all the items he has... and more, all well spending HALF that he spends.
So what if your rogue has a ring of invisibility? As soon as he attacks you (or tries too, anyway) he becomes visible, and you win. You have glitterdust, a simple level 2 spell that renders him visible. If he is gaining invisibility from magic items... use spells to detect magic, and he will light up like a Christmas tree. Oh, and you have Improved Invisibility at level 7 or 8. So you can attack, and remain hidden, while he... oh right, tries to deal damage with Sneak Attacks that can be negated by a simple Blur spell. oh, and you're invisible anyway, so it doesn't matter.
Plus you can be flying, while shooting rays, casting save or dies at his glowing, glitterdusted self, and what can he do?

My point being that whatever he can do with money, you can do for free. Whatever he can do, you can easily counter. And you can pick up Craft Wondrous Item and get all his items (and better ones) for half price anyway.

As much as I like Rogues as a staple and archetype of fantasy, they fall easily to the might that is magic. They have weak will and fortitude saves, and are easy prey for your spells. No matter how well equipped, a wizard/witch/Cleric/Sorcerer have a way to counter the rogue.

Hm, I see your point. Those specific examples may not work simply because the Witch spell list is not NEARLY as expansive (specifically they don't get the invisibility spells) as the Wizards but I get the idea. I suppose I just need to think outside of the box a little.

[Chained Birds]

How to be a perfect trap.

1. Don't act like a which.
As in, don't act like a vindictive shrew who will stab you if even try to pet her cat. Just act like a nice and behaved woman who just so happens to be magically and having the unfortunate title of "Witch".

2. Be a pushover.
If the rogue starts acting mean to you, or anyone else for that matter, just behave like a coward and let it slide. This doesn't extend to allowing the Rogue to beat you up for no reason or do "That Guy" stuff to you, but just try not to make a fuss out of it.

3. Be a crafter.
Take some crafting feats and start working on party items, maybe having the rogue contribute so he/she can turn all that gold into items at half the price.

4. The secret.
Using your own wealth, place a curse in the items that will respond to a command word. Place it on any items you make for yourself, and any items that are given to the rogue.

5. Revenge.
If the rogue is dumb enough to eventually steal your awesome items for no other reason than being a jerk, just walk up to him/her, with a sincere smile on your face, and calmly say the gibberish that is the command word. Suddenly the rogue gets X stuff happening to him/her where X is the number of cursed items he/she has on him/her.

6. Have fun.
Enjoy the fact that you got your revenge like any good witch would, and pet your familiar while watching the rogue squirm under all the curses for being so darn greedy. And don't forget to Cackle!

[Mjollnir075]

Interestingly enough, the OPs DM had a thread a day or so ago talking about his problems with the Witch in the party. He described the exact scenarious spoken above (rogue making tons of money), but in a positive light, saying that the Witch just wasn't trying to have fun, where the other players were coming to him with ideas for side missions and whatnot.

Dunno. I think you guys should have a little sit-down and hash this out. Hell, show each other these threads and the reply's that agreed with both of you and see if you can come up with something that will make the game more fun for both of you.