Is Hammerspace Powered by Rogues?

[Lord_Gareth]

Hammerspace (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Hammerspace). We all know it, love it, and, at times, hate it. It exists in PCs backpacks and Handy Haversacks, and it exists in our webcomics and animated television shows, handily storing or even possibly creating items to be produced at-need. But where does it all come from?

Roguespace, the meta-dimension that rogues and other characters that succeed at Reflex saves (especially with Evasion) disappear into when actually dodging would make no logical sense whatsoever. They blink into this space on a regular basis, and then blink directly back into reality, partially or wholly avoiding damage.

My theory? Reflex saves power Hammerspace. The character(s) in question transmute to energy, which is then exploited at-need by those who require these items for a quick smiting or an emergency break-in. The violent and/or illegal nature of many of these items leads me to believe that many of them are, in fact, formed of one or more condensed rogues, which would explain the astonishing violence of which they are capable (perv-hammers and the entire Matrix series come to mind). Any relatively benign items are probably formed of the odd commoner or good-aligned cleric that ends up in Roguespace, and these characters are promptly returned to their own realities thereafter.

Thoughts?

[Shadowknight12]

No no no no. The ineffectual items are formed by Monks.

[Telonius]

I do think there's conservation of mass involved. My best guess? Dead bodies that poof out of existence once you kill a person, only to reappear shortly thereafter when the body is looted, disappearing entirely when you turn your back could form quite a bit of it. Spent arrows and potion flasks could be another source. So could the materials from Wall of Iron spells (that would otherwise overwhelm the economy).

[Lord_Gareth]

No no no no. The ineffectual items are formed by Monks.

Not ineffectual. Just non-lethal. No one ever summons something useless from Hammerspace.

Monks do form the decorations on items, though.

[willpell]

One word: quantum. Layman misinterpretations of theoretical physics are your friend. Remember, if you can't see it, it simultaneously exists and doesn't exist in all possible universes!

[Shadowknight12]

Not ineffectual. Just non-lethal. No one ever summons something useless from Hammerspace.

Monks do form the decorations on items, though.

Hmmmm. I still think the non-lethals are made of people who also have Evasion. Perhaps those with Vow of Peace?

[Alefiend]

Not ineffectual. Just non-lethal. No one ever summons something useless from Hammerspace.

What about Wile E. Coyote's umbrella? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__dKDQk9j3Sw/TKZXY0wsKzI/AAAAAAAAABo/rKIuKJ3bdrc/s1600/wileecoyoteumbrellagogo.jpg

[Maphreal]

Roguespace is Hammerspace. This is also where the animals in bags of tricks stay, which is why rogues often times have a funky gamey smell.

Hammerspace gets its energy from internet discussions of hypothetical pseudo-physics within fictional realities created by dice fueled roleplaying systems. Due to the praetertranssubstantiationalisticality property of the relativistic first unified theory of quantum chromodynamic pseudo-intellectual scienfictional psychobabble, Hammerspace draws its energy from the infinite logic loops, grammar corrections, pony references and cat pictures found within these discussions.

[Cieyrin]

Incidentally, my RL game classifies Evasion as a supernatural ability precisely because they dodge into Roguespace, regardless of whether they get from Rogue, Monk, Ranger, Shadowdancer or less traveled variants like Rings.

[Lord_Gareth]

Incidentally, my RL game classifies Evasion as a supernatural ability precisely because they dodge into Roguespace, regardless of whether they get from Rogue, Monk, Ranger, Shadowdancer or less traveled variants like Rings.

So...you took the nice thing from classes that already get no nice things?

[Shadowknight12]

So...you took the nice thing from classes that already get no nice things?

THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE WROUGHT.

Hah, kidding. You're totally right. I personally think classes who get no nice things should get several spells as (Ex) abilities, but I'm insane like that.

[Cieyrin]

So...you took the nice thing from classes that already get no nice things?

I'm just saying the descriptor changed, not that they don't get it. Also wasn't my decision, it was my DM's.

[Lord_Gareth]

I'm just saying the descriptor changed, not that they don't get it. Also wasn't my decision, it was my DM's.

Tell your DM that melee is hosed enough by antimagic field already! DON'T CLOSE THE PORTALS TO ROGUESPACE OR ALL THE MAGIC WILL STOP WORKING.

[Shadowknight12]

I'm just saying the descriptor changed, not that they don't get it. Also wasn't my decision, it was my DM's.

Supernatural abilities are nullified in Anti-Magic Fields, Dead Magic zones and can be affected by other abilities specifically designed to take down Supernatural abilities (like the Fire-Souled template). If you have the same ability as (Ex) and (Su), (Ex) will always be better.

[Keld Denar]

I wouldn't call it "taking". Shifting Evasion from Ex to Su has no impact on the game 999/1000 times or LESS. The only time it would be suppressed is in an AMF, and in an AMF, most things you'd have to make ref saves against are also suppressed. Unless there is a rockslide or other non-magical event in an area of dead magic, the odds of shifting Evasion from Ex to Su making a noticable impact on a game are pretty much nil.

Plus, its funny.

[Cieyrin]

I wouldn't call it "taking". Shifting Evasion from Ex to Su has no impact on the game 999/1000 times or LESS. The only time it would be suppressed is in an AMF, and in an AMF, most things you'd have to make ref saves against are also suppressed. Unless there is a rockslide or other non-magical event in an area of dead magic, the odds of shifting Evasion from Ex to Su making a noticable impact on a game are pretty much nil.

Plus, its funny.

Exactly, Dead Magic/AMFs don't come up that often at all, so it's more flavor than anything, especially as a passive ability.

That's literally the only difference between an Extraordinary and Supernatural ability, too. You can't dispel it off, so it's not that big a deal.

[nedz]

A Wizard did it, silly.

Its the same place all the melt water goes when people start fireballing Walls of Ice.